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Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:54 AM

Snowden: UK government now leaking documents about itself

Source: Guardian.UK

The Independent this morning published an article - which it repeatedly claims comes from "documents obtained from the NSA by Edward Snowden" - disclosing that "Britain runs a secret internet-monitoring station in the Middle East to intercept and process vast quantities of emails, telephone calls and web traffic on behalf of Western intelligence agencies." This is the first time the Independent has published any revelations purportedly from the NSA documents, and it's the type of disclosure which journalists working directly with NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden have thus far avoided.

That leads to the obvious question: who is the source for this disclosure? Snowden this morning said he wants it to be clear that he was not the source for the Independent, stating:

I have never spoken with, worked with, or provided any journalistic materials to the Independent. The journalists I have worked with have, at my request, been judicious and careful in ensuring that the only things disclosed are what the public should know but that does not place any person in danger. People at all levels of society up to and including the President of the United States have recognized the contribution of these careful disclosures to a necessary public debate, and we are proud of this record.

"It appears that the UK government is now seeking to create an appearance that the Guardian and Washington Post's disclosures are harmful, and they are doing so by intentionally leaking harmful information to The Independent and attributing it to others. The UK government should explain the reasoning behind this decision to disclose information that, were it released by a private citizen, they would argue is a criminal act."


Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/23/uk-government-independent-military-base

43 replies, 3081 views

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Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply Snowden: UK government now leaking documents about itself (Original post)
bemildred Aug 2013 OP
railsback Aug 2013 #1
bemildred Aug 2013 #2
blackspade Aug 2013 #7
Helen Borg Aug 2013 #3
blackspade Aug 2013 #4
railsback Aug 2013 #5
blackspade Aug 2013 #11
railsback Aug 2013 #15
Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #9
blackspade Aug 2013 #13
Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #16
Jesus Malverde Aug 2013 #27
MADem Aug 2013 #30
Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #6
Ghost Dog Aug 2013 #22
Jesus Malverde Aug 2013 #28
MADem Aug 2013 #31
Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #33
tblue Aug 2013 #8
MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #10
blackspade Aug 2013 #14
MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #19
blackspade Aug 2013 #20
deurbano Aug 2013 #25
WillyT Aug 2013 #18
WillyT Aug 2013 #12
SunSeeker Aug 2013 #17
Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #21
SunSeeker Aug 2013 #32
iemitsu Aug 2013 #36
SunSeeker Aug 2013 #39
iemitsu Aug 2013 #40
SunSeeker Aug 2013 #41
iemitsu Aug 2013 #43
think4yourself Aug 2013 #24
SunSeeker Aug 2013 #34
think4yourself Aug 2013 #35
SunSeeker Aug 2013 #37
nenagh Aug 2013 #23
Ocelot Aug 2013 #26
Jesus Malverde Aug 2013 #29
SoapBox Aug 2013 #38
DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #42

Response to bemildred (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:07 AM

1. LoL!!!!!!!!

 

No honor amongst thieves. That's the problem with making duplicate copies and then entrusting them to other people.. or getting detained by other countries and having all your stuff ransacked.

Obviously, these frantic statements coincide with Snowden's agreement with Russia to stay in that country. Maybe Russia leaked the information themselves so they can boot him out.

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Response to railsback (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:08 AM

2. This is getting to be amusing. nt

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Response to railsback (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:36 AM

7. How about relying on some facts?

How many duplicate copies were there? Who had them? Did Snowden hand over all the material he had to Greenwald?
Were the documents turned over before he was picked up by the Chinese and Russians?
Do the Chinese or Russians even have copies?

Establishing simple facts might strengthen your continued speculation.
At this point that is all your are doing absent of any actual facts.

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:27 AM

3. In what ways is this dangeours?

I mean, the location of this listening station were not disclosed, right?

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:29 AM

4. Interesting questions.

If in fact Snowden has only given the files to Greenwald and his associates, then how did the Independent get them?
Regardless, why are they publishing info about foreign surveillance? That would seem to be counter to the MSM narrative that 'responsible journalists' don't publish things that threaten 'national security.'

Stinks of a setup to me.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:33 AM

5. Like a smashed up Macbook..

 

..that wasn't a Macbook?

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Response to railsback (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:39 AM

11. And your point is what?

Or is throwing poop at a wall your only source of amusement?

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Response to blackspade (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:47 AM

15. Seems to be sticking..

 

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Response to blackspade (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:36 AM

9. It never says it has them. See my post #6.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:41 AM

13. I saw that, thanks for the clarification.

My next questions are: how did the Independent gain access to the files and why is the NSA posting them?

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Response to blackspade (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:50 AM

16. To make it look like the materials are dangerous in the hands of the press.

The logical conclusion is that the Independent received them from the government. But they don't say! Nor do they provide any original source material that "proves" their claim. All other media has when reporting on Snowden docs. Why not the Independent?

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Response to blackspade (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:19 PM

27. If you read the independent article.

It's clear they don't have the documents. They have a description of the contents and a vague one at that.

The purpose of the leak is to justify the abuse of terror legislation, by tying the snowden case to middle east terror.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:45 PM

30. Maybe from someone in China...Snowden was interviewed by a reporter

working for the South China Morning Post (a paper that Rupert Murdoch has a minority share in, FWIW).

He had to sleep at some point in time...so did those who got copies of his goodies.

And until I see all these fuzzy pronouncements actually coming out of Ed Snowden's mouth, instead of as words on a screen, I just can't really "buy" anything.

This isn't the 1800s...we're a bit past the written word a a way to communicate. Even Anonymous does dramatic little YOUTUBE videos with the dumbass headless guy and the Warner Brothers mask and the Steven Hawking voice.

Anyone could be "speaking for" Snowden--for all we know he could be in an induced coma (or recovering from major plastic surgery), and Pootie is writing the script! He needs to pop his head up, even if only via skype.

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:35 AM

6. Even the Independent never claims it received these docs from Snowden.

The pertinent sentences:

The Independent is not revealing the precise location of the station but information on its activities was contained in the leaked documents obtained from the NSA by Edward Snowden.


Information about the project was contained in 50,000 GCHQ documents that Mr Snowden downloaded during 2012. Many of them came from an internal Wikipedia-style information site called GC-Wiki. Unlike the public Wikipedia, GCHQs wiki was generally classified Top Secret or above.


Nowhere does it say that Snowden is the Independent's source.

There is no doubt that the NSA is aware of much of the content of Snowden's materials so they pass that info on to GCHQ which in turn leaks it the the Independent.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:07 AM

22. Snowden's materials cover both NSA and GCHQ

activities, it seems.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:20 PM

28. +1

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:46 PM

31. Downloaded in 2012? So he's been "bringing in the sheaves" for a LONG time, now. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #31)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:27 PM

33. He has admitted as such.

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:36 AM

8. Wouldn't put these contortions past any PTB.

I feel like I'm watching a movie.

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:39 AM

10. Keep beating the dead horse, Glenn. Apparently, they'll keep paying you.

 

But you've saturated the public, and they have lost interest in your "Breaking News".

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:44 AM

14. The public has lost so much interest that other organizations have decided that they want....

a piece of the pie?
And no journalist gets paid? What kind of stupid memo is that?

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Response to blackspade (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:51 AM

19. show me any results for all the poutrage.

 

when the public at large is serious about something, the wheels of government move.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:57 AM

20. Just like 80%+ of the country wanted background checks for firearms?

Nice try at a dodge though.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:01 PM

25. It's only been two and a half months since the revelations began.

Congress isn't even in session.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:51 AM

18. Um... Not Really...

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:40 AM

12. K & R !!!


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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:51 AM

17. Snowden does not deny he stole these docs from the NSA.

That would have been in his statement if he did not have those docs. He just denies that he gave them directly to the Independent. The real question here is why the fuck did Snowden steal THIS info from the NSA? It has nothing to do with spying on Americans in America.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:05 AM

21. Because they were included in a dataset most likely.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:25 PM

32. Are you saying he didn't mean to steal them? What do you base that on?

Why do you assert it is "most likely" that it was included in a "dataset"? Even if it was an "oops" in that he downloaded it accidently as part of a collection of documents, why couldn't he delete it from his thumbdrive, knowing he shouldn't have it? Why did he travel to Hong Kong and Russia with it?

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #32)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 02:22 PM

36. Because that's how the NSA trained Snowden to handle

accidentally gathered intelligence? I imagine that that is the standard rule, once intelligence is in your hands never give it up.

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 04:32 PM

39. The NSA did not train him to steal from them. nt

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #39)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 02:55 AM

40. No, they trained him to steal from us,

and it backfired on them.

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #40)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 11:25 AM

41. No, the NSA's mistake was hiring a right wing nut bag with an agenda..

Snowden should never have gotten a security clearance.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #41)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 12:43 PM

43. No one should get a security clearance to snoop on everything we say

or type.
Anyone, who works for the vast US spy network for a lifetime and doesn't become a whistleblower, is suspect in my book.
Not the sort of character I would want for a neighbor.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:11 AM

24. GCHQ spies on US.

They all share it. We help fund it. Look into "Five Eyes" program,
UK, Canada, Australia, NewZealand and US.
Collect it all.

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Response to think4yourself (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:28 PM

34. Did Snowden/GG assert THIS mideast UK surveillance program spies on US?

Link please.

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Response to think4yourself (Reply #35)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 02:43 PM

37. That link is 2 months old, doesn't quote Snowden/GG nor discuss THIS program.

This program is about mideast surveillance. That Atlantic piece discusses Mr. Friedersdorf's fear that the NSA spies on Americans by having other countries do it for them. That is not THIS program. Nor does the piece say Snowden or GG asserted UK mideast surveillance spies on US. It does not even mention Snowden or Greenwald.

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:07 AM

23. see comments on kpete's 9:29 a.m. OP on the same topic...

for a very interesting viewpoint..

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:08 PM

26. The Independent has no credibility left

 

Attention-seeking rag owned by shady Russian tycoon who apparently enjoys being part of the UK government's propaganda machine. Yes, I believe Snowden. K&R.

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Response to Ocelot (Reply #26)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:22 PM

29. Sums it up nicely....nt

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 03:40 PM

38. Shut the fuck up, Little Eddie.

Now that you are a RUSSIAN and living in a country with one of THE biggest CIVIL and HUMAN Rights ABUSERS, Comrade Putin,
I have no interest in your tales.

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #38)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 11:44 AM

42. Are you having a sad, or are you having a flashback to 1955?

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