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Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:26 PM

Your mortgage documents are fake!

Source: Salon

Prepare to be outraged. Newly obtained filings from this Florida woman's lawsuit uncover horrifying scheme (Update)
BY DAVID DAYEN


If you know about foreclosure fraud, the mass fabrication of mortgage documents in state courts by banks attempting to foreclose on homeowners, you may have one nagging question: Why did banks have to resort to this illegal scheme? Was it just cheaper to mock up the documents than to provide the real ones? Did banks figure they simply had enough power over regulators, politicians and the courts to get away with it? (They were probably right about that one.)

A newly unsealed lawsuit, which banks settled in 2012 for $95 million, actually offers a different reason, providing a key answer to one of the persistent riddles of the financial crisis and its aftermath. The lawsuit states that banks resorted to fake documents because they could not legally establish true ownership of the loans when trying to foreclose.

This reality, which banks did not contest but instead settled out of court, means that tens of millions of mortgages in America still lack a legitimate chain of ownership, with implications far into the future. And if Congress, supported by the Obama administration, goes back to the same housing finance system, with the same corrupt private entities who broke the nation’s private property system back in business packaging mortgages, then shame on all of us.

The 2011 lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court in both North and South Carolina, by a white-collar fraud specialist named Lynn Szymoniak, on behalf of the federal government, 17 states and three cities. Twenty-eight banks, mortgage servicers and document processing companies are named in the lawsuit, including mega-banks like JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo, Citi and Bank of America.

Read more: http://www.salon.com/2013/08/12/your_mortgage_documents_are_fake/



much more at link. comment: Is anyone surprised? I'm not. (on edit: cleaned up the title, added subtitle to excerpt)

63 replies, 10543 views

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Arrow 63 replies Author Time Post
Reply Your mortgage documents are fake! (Original post)
silvershadow Aug 2013 OP
dixiegrrrrl Aug 2013 #1
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #2
jtuck004 Aug 2013 #9
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #10
jtuck004 Aug 2013 #16
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #20
DirkGently Aug 2013 #59
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #61
jeff47 Aug 2013 #24
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #26
jeff47 Aug 2013 #46
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #47
jeff47 Aug 2013 #48
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #49
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #25
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #27
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #28
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #29
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #30
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #31
reformist2 Aug 2013 #3
Triana Aug 2013 #8
Berlum Aug 2013 #4
mopinko Aug 2013 #5
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #11
mopinko Aug 2013 #17
Javaman Aug 2013 #6
Kolesar Aug 2013 #22
Javaman Aug 2013 #23
Kolesar Aug 2013 #33
Javaman Aug 2013 #34
niyad Aug 2013 #38
Javaman Aug 2013 #41
Deny and Shred Aug 2013 #7
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #12
azurnoir Aug 2013 #14
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #18
azurnoir Aug 2013 #19
pennylane100 Aug 2013 #15
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #21
ChiciB1 Aug 2013 #42
ChiciB1 Aug 2013 #43
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #44
ChiciB1 Aug 2013 #52
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #53
ChiciB1 Aug 2013 #57
davidwparker Aug 2013 #13
Enthusiast Aug 2013 #32
mountain grammy Aug 2013 #35
AllyCat Aug 2013 #36
mountain grammy Aug 2013 #39
niyad Aug 2013 #37
rrneck Aug 2013 #40
santamargarita Aug 2013 #45
DirkGently Aug 2013 #50
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #54
DirkGently Aug 2013 #55
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #56
DirkGently Aug 2013 #58
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #60
DirkGently Aug 2013 #62
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #63
Coyotl Aug 2013 #51

Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:47 PM

1. Several of us posted a LOT about this since 2008..

It was amusing to watch the shills jump on the posts to argue that there was no problem at all.

When the robo-signing fraud was fianlly addressed at the national level, most critically in Fla. we were all hoping that
counties across the nation would address the MERS issue of not recording chain of title.
Never happened.
And the faudulent foreclosures keep going on, and the sales of houses keep on, with questionable documents.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:47 PM

2. Why aren't the Title Insurance companies all over this?

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:25 PM

9. By accepting it, they get paid. It's for our own good, you know. n/t

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #9)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:27 PM

10. You should see their files. Land records going back to 19th century Indian treaties on some land.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 05:39 PM

16. When we got access to our in Oklahoma, it had a clause that


said if it was sold to a "negroe" the house would be taken back, etc...that whole division used to be like that. I wondered when I was younger why NE OKC was mostly black families, and learned as the years went on how people were divided.

I got to look at a few other mortgage docs over the years, and there is some fascinating stuff out there. Some good, and some hiding real tragedy underneath.

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 06:29 PM

20. What gets me are descriptions where the borders are defined as "..from the big rock on the hill..."

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 08:36 PM

59. Georgia's like that. Northern Florida. The Carolinas.


"Start at the stump on the North side of the old Wilson place across from the pond, ..."

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #59)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:08 PM

61. Sounds like the directions they give in New England....

"Yew go that way fur a spell until ya come to where the old Jenkings barn used to be."

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 09:23 PM

24. They aren't involved in foreclosures.

And once the bank forecloses, they legally own the property. Whether or not they were entitled to foreclose.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #24)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 10:17 PM

26. Title Insurance companies keep duplicate records on file with the Recorders Office....

They're ROLE in and property transaction is to track and PROVE ownership as it passes from hand to hand. Enough to where they guarantee the accuracy and back that guarantee with a policy.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #26)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 04:40 PM

46. Which is why title insurance companies are used when homes are purchased

But title companies are not used when homes are foreclosed.

The homeowner has to bring up title deficiencies before the foreclosure is complete. After the foreclosure is complete the bank owns the house, because a court has ruled that they do. That ruling overrides any title deficiencies.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #46)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 05:02 PM

47. Actually, they tried to claim the house wasn't actually OWNED by ANYONE as long as it was bundled...

Sounds like they tried to use a legal limbo between owners that had no time limit as a perpetual state to use the property as potential futures to secure separate instruments.

This allowed them to make swampland look like it was Park Ave. as long as there were no actual sale to set value.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #47)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 05:06 PM

48. That would be the reason to not foreclose.

Because they don't have to realize the loss if they don't actually foreclose. Once they foreclose, they have to put it on the books as a loss.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #48)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 06:44 PM

49. That didn't matter to the other instrument they were peddling....

It was classic bait and switch.

Matt Taibbi but it best when he said, "banks were selling oregano as high grade weed."

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 10:11 PM

25. Spitfire of ATJ, as I understand, the Title companies have a work around on securitization fail.

Their insurance only covers what is recorded in the land records, and MERS and securitization are now listed as Exclusions in policies. So the very area where Title is corrupted is now excluded from coverage.

There remain though millions of homeowners with Title policies with no such Exclusions.

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #25)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 10:20 PM

27. This is why they should be all over this....

Otherwise they CAN'T guarantee a damn thing.

I'm picturing an industry to industry lawsuit.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #27)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 10:48 PM

28. The Title industry along with the banksters set up the MERS system.

As homeowners wise up though, someone is going to take a hit. I agree that neither industry wants to pay damages to homeowners but someone is cutting me a check one day, well multiple parties actually.

I know I would never sign another MERS mortgage. I would never purchase a property with MERS documents in the Title history. I certainly wouldn’t purchase any Title insurance that didn’t cover what truly deserves insurance.

True, with securitized mortgages Title companies can’t guarantee a damn thing. They are more than happy though to sell you a worthless policy and collect your money.

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #28)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:26 PM

29. MERS should be declared illegal.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #29)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:52 PM

30. Spitfire of ATJ, rather than illegal would you be satisfied with unlawful?

Have a look at Pennsylvania law:

21 P. S. §711 “Mortgagee” includes any person, partnership, association, corporation, society, organization or fiduciary, holding a mortgage against real estate in a city or county of the first class, and entitled to payment of the mortgage debt, or the heir, legal representative, successor or assignee of any of the foregoing.”

As a Pennsylvanian, my mortgage contract lacks a lawful mortgagee. Oh my, and a Federal court has already ruled this is a valid cause of action.

I used to believe my mortgage became invalid about 90 days after I signed it because MERS didn’t file the conveyances in the county land records as required by PA law. Now I understand that my mortgage wasn’t valid the day I signed the document.

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #30)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:07 AM

31. I can see the lawyers claiming government has no role over commerce.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:47 PM

3. The big banks have made a mockery of private property rights. And they are getting away with it.


There was no time to actually sign all these papers appropriately, there were too many mortgage-backed securities to slice and dice, too much money to be made.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:22 PM

8. Bingo...

...it was fraud pure and simple. And Lanny Breuer was just sitting on it pending his kickback/payback for inaction.

http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/17885-lanny-breuer-cashes-in-after-not-prosecuting-wall-street-execs-will-receive-approximate-salary-of-4-million-dollars

Crime PAYS when it's big and is arranged so as to only hurt the little people.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:53 PM

4. "Move along. Nothing to see here. Smirk." - Banksters, Inc. (R)

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:02 PM

5. i'm not. 6 months after closing on a mortgage

i got a letter saying that we had failed to sign our note at the closing and would we please sign the enclosed and return it.
i'm just letting it sit to see if they cry when they have to call and beg.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:29 PM

11. Did you throw a mortgage burning party?

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 05:48 PM

17. apparently i should.

not that sort of person, and it is rental property, so others could get dragged in.
but believe me, if we get into a tight spot some day, that payment will be the first to go.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:04 PM

6. And at the end of the day, what will come of this?

probably nothing.

no one will go to jail, a nominal fine in comparison to the crime will be paid and the whole treadmill of repetition will continue.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #6)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 07:55 PM

22. The president of LPS/DOCx copped a plea half a year ago and went to prison for decades

They had tons of charges to level against her, so she settled for a sentence where she will get out of prison when in her seventies, if she lives that long.

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #22)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 08:24 PM

23. That's one in a row.

now, let's see what happens with the others.

I'll commence holding my breath now.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #23)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 08:31 AM

33. "no one will go to jail"

This story was on www.60minutes.com last year. Have a look

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #33)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 09:24 AM

34. And like I said, "that's one in a row"...

I have begun with the holding of the breath.

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #33)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:37 AM

38. don't you find it interesting that the ONLY person to go to jail for this is a woman?

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Response to niyad (Reply #38)


Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:04 PM

7. Old news.

Mortgage Backed Securities were created to access the funds that insisted on 'conservative' bond-oriented investments, company retirement, pension funds and the like. Mortgages had been a yield oriented safe bet for a long time that fit into those 'conservative' parameters. Once accepted, Wall Street securitized all the 'good' mortgages, and wanted more. That's where the problem lies.

The pool of money represented by institutions that came to prefer the 8+% of MBS vs the 4+% of munis outweighed the 'good' mortgages, and Wall Street started bidding for subprime. The process moved quickly, and many "fly-by-night" mortgage writers were signing up anyone with a pulse to as expensive a home as they could, with reset ARMs that detonanted in 2008. (I always wondered if it was a detonation that was 'meant' for a year later, so it could all be blamed on whoever followed Bush II.)

The big banks that bought those subprime mortgages were repackaging and selling too fast to keep track of the paperwork. They knew how bad it was, and resorted to robo-signing documents invented out of whole cloth. The original mortgage writer is long gone out of business, no documentation was collected, and the buyer walked away.

The cozy relationships with the courts and influential others has been successful in delaying meaningful action thus far. The piper; however, shall get paid. Did the banks accept reality and write down the losses? Nien. The Fed's Troubled Asset Facility has been buying years 5-30 on these mortgages since Dec 2007. These toxic assets will never pan out because the owner has already walked away. The Fed will have take that hit. Helicopter Ben made that decision a long time ago.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:37 PM

12. This is why I filed a Quiet Title on my property.

It made no sense to me to pay a mortgage when no one could give me a valid Deed and clear Title upon completion of the payments. Besides, someone already owed me more money that whatever supposedly remains due on the mortgage loan.

Just when I had a found an attorney who understood MERS and securitized mortgages, my servicer filed an invalid, forged and fraudulent Assignment/Lien on my property, increasing the damages.

Please understand this isn’t just a foreclosure problem, it’s a mortgage and Title problem for those homeowners who are timely making their payments. The chain of Title was broken, shortly after the mortgage was signed.

The banksters though prefer that homeowners concentrate only on the supposed mortgage balance due and forgo any action to collect the damages owed to the homeowners.

I do not share the banksters preference.

Resources for Homeowners:

You can find your MERS MIN number on the upper left hand corner on your mortgage. Select Search by MIN and enter number. A Servicer will appear and if you enter your Social Security Number the Investor may or may not be disclosed in the search. The complete chain of Title will not be revealed to you without a Subpoena.

MERS lookup tool: https://www.mers-servicerid.org/sis/index.jsp

Fannie Mae lookup tool: https://www.knowyouroptions.com/loanlookup

Freddie Mac lookup tool: https://ww3.freddiemac.com/corporate/

Compare the information with what appears in your local land records.

Have the banksters clouded your property Title?

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 05:25 PM

14. something ummm interesting

I looked up the mortgage on my house using MERS site and no matter how I entered it I came up with zilch nothing nada nothing, no such property exists, so I called MERS and asked what would this means they couldn't answer immediately either

I find all of this quite odd to say the least

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #14)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 06:15 PM

18. Azurnoir, is your mortgage a MERS mortgage?

It’s possible you are among the 15% of homeowners that have a legitimate mortgage; it’s more likely though that you are among the 85% with Title problems.

Fannie has most mortgage loans now. What does the Fannie lookup tool indicate?

Most counties have online land records which can be accessed free although some have a fee. What appears in your local land records?

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #18)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 06:20 PM

19. Neither Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac has my mortgage

nothing appears on the land records save the name of the owner or mortgagee(?), what makes this so curious is that I have an FHA mortgage

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 05:29 PM

15. I have never been able to understand the mortgage market

These may seem like stupid questions but I have to ask them.

How would a person know that they were not going to get a valid deed and clear title when loan is paid off?

When your loan servicer filed a forged and invalid lien, did they back off when you proved the documents were false.

What happened to the title you were given when you bought the house. I understand that the title is held by the person who supplies the original mortgage, but how can a homeowner lose his equity when the loan gets sold.

My husband and I own several pieces of property and he is very good at paying attention to the smallest of details so I am sure we are well protected but I do not possess that particular quality and they make it so complicated. However, just to amuse myself, I am going to check our papers at the sites you have listed. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

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Response to pennylane100 (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 07:30 PM

21. Pennylane100, oh, the mortgage market is more complex and convoluted now than any other time in

history.

Homeowners at least understand traditional mortgages but no one explained to them the ramifications of a securitized mortgage. The mortgage contract doesn’t even obtain the homeowners consent for securitization, only the sale of the loan.

To answer your first question, the existence of a MERS mortgage alone indicates a Title problem. After the original mortgage is recorded, the loan goes into the MERS database where transfers are logged, not the county land records which are abandoned. Most of the life of the loan and the owner of the loan is maintained in the secretive MERS database.

Homeowners should check the legal description of a “mortgagee” to see if MERS is even a lawful mortgagee in their state as well as the recording statutes of their state. Some states do not require all Assignments be filed while most other states require timely filing of loan transfers.

To answer your second question, when I called out my servicer on their first bogus Assignment, they filed a second bogus Assignment slandering my property Title a second time. So now they have claimed to have purchased my loan in 2009 and again in 2011. Since 2013 is an odd numbered year, I continue to monitor my land records as slandering my Title is tradition at this point. By the way, Fannie Mae owns my loan, not the servicer who appears in the land records.

My original mortgage was filed in the land records by the loan originator. My lender as appeared on my Settlement Sheet was GMAC. By 2009, I came to understand MERS and how it operates as well as mortgage securitization. I checked my land records and GMAC was not found. I checked MERS & Fannie’s lookup tools and both indicated that Fannie owned my loan, another party who also doesn’t appear in my land records.

Had I ignored the unrecorded Assignments and continued to pay the mortgage, or paid it off, I would not have received a valid Satisfaction of Mortgage and the Title would remain clouded. My Deed would be nothing other than proof of my ownership to a Title problem.

I have no doubt your husband was careful and responsible about matters as important as real estate. The problems though, are not on the debtor side of these transactions, they are on the creditor side. If you want a better idea about what likely happened after you signed your mortgage documents, see my thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2412603

You have no idea how anxious I am to post an update on my lawsuit. It will probably be another month or so until I can post new information.

I love fighting banksters!

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:54 PM

42. OK, I'm Confused...

We refinanced with Liberty Bank here in Florida because of a lower fixed interest rate and for less years. There was a lawyer involved, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking for. We pay on time, didn't have to refinance but did, and it's my understanding that when we pay in full we will get our title.

The loan is a conventional loan and I think HUD was used. Do I have to worry now?

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:29 PM

43. Okay, I Did The Search, Sooooooooo

since I checked with MERS and there is a record and it shows who we borrowed from and when, then I should assume all is well.

Shows my lender and that they are organized and existing under the laws of Delaware, has an address & telephone number, and exists under the laws of the USA of America.

Now, I'm going to check Fannie Mae. WOW, my stress level went down... "I hope!"

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Response to ChiciB1 (Reply #43)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:55 PM

44. ChiciB1, your stress level should be low. Either you are one of the few that has

a valid mortgage and clear Title, or there are parties that owe you much more than whatever may remain due on your mortgage loan.

Do I appear stressed?

So, your current mortgage is in the name of Liberty Bank. That’s the loan originator and it’s a MERS mortgage, correct? Who does MERS state is your mortgage servicer and who does MERS state is the investor in your loan?

Does Fannie claim to own your loan?

What documents appear in your local land records? Most can be accessed online.

When you refinanced, was there a Satisfaction of Mortgage signed by a supposed MERS officer filed in the land records?

And if you’re up for it, do you know if MERS is a lawful mortgagee under the laws of your state and is your state a must record state?

You might also check your Settlement sheet and see if you paid a Yield Spread Premium or Origination Fee.

An attorney worked on my refinance as well and he prepared and filed a bogus Deed and sold me a mortgage with over $54,000 in fraud.


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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #44)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 03:41 PM

52. Had A Medical Emergency.... So Just Now

checking back with this. Won't go into the medical stuff, but from Liberty Savings & Loan it shows that Fannie is the apparent owner.

I will have to check further on the questions you're asking about my state. The state is Florida so for me it's ALWAYS suspect to me. I do have a copy of a loan satisfaction from the previous lender, but need to get back into the file to check on the further questions.

I know fees were paid, but will further inspect. I wonder if I'll ever feel safe in this country again. My stress level remains high, not only because of this... but so much more.

Thanks for the questions and thanks for the information in the first place. Have enough on my plate right now, but finding answers seems to be another emergency that needs attention.

LIFE has become so very complicated, and my cynicism has grown beyond any bounds I ever thought possible! I DO LIVE IN FEAR!

Again, sorry for late reply... I know it's old news by now, but felt the need to reply.

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Response to ChiciB1 (Reply #52)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 05:47 PM

53. ChiciB1, I hope all is well with you and I find it very thoughtful of you to reply.

I’m delighted to assist you with checking on your mortgage but it would be helpful to me if I had specifics.

What is it that shows Fannie is now the apparent owner? Is it the Fannie lookup tool? Is it your land records? Is it the MERS database?

It would help greatly if we knew the data and the source of the data. The MERS & Fannie lookups are quick and easy to check. Your land records are most likely online and should also be fairly easy to check. If your mortgage documents are handy, get out your Settlement Sheet and you can check for origination fraud.

We could check the statutes in your state at a later time.

When you have the opportunity please let me know who MERS identifies as your mortgage servicer, and if you enter part of your SSN, it may also disclose the Investor in your loan in a second window. We’ll compare that information with Fannie’s lookup tool. Then we’ll compare the information from those two lookup tools with what is reflected in your local land records.

Fannie is a REMIC, Real Estate Mortgage Investment Conduit, (securitized mortgages.) Fannie has been seriously corrupted, and it’s not a good sign if they have your loan.

I’m sorry for the stress and fear you are experiencing in your life. I often told my son that knowledge is power and I think I feel empowered by what I’ve learned and the actions I’m taking, otherwise I’d likely have a higher stress level.

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #53)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 08:30 PM

57. I Do Understand About The Knowledge & Power...

I will delve into this further, perhaps tomorrow since I can search online. I appreciate your offer of assistance too.

Right now I'm watching Chris Hayes and his climate change show. I'm also one who does feel that we are abusing earth as we know it. Glad to see his interest is growing and he seems to be pushing his agenda here.

Will get back later, and thanks again.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 05:05 PM

13. Randi.

Randi mentioned this a long time ago. She was saying make them take you to court to prove they have your paperwork and could actually foreclose on you. This was one of the frauds.

Then, there was the CSPAN callers who calculated it would have been better/cheaper to pay off mortgages than to bail out banks. These callers got the old disconnect.

Yep. Lots of fraud took place with this.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 05:03 AM

32. I have no words.

Well, I do have words. This is what happens when you allow overt criminal fraud at the expense of the American people. You know, because you are part of the same evil cabal that deregulated, removed critical oversight and used propaganda and smoke screens to cover your tracks.

Will this nation ever return to the days when we had a semblance of equal justice? They stole that 2,000 election and the nation went to shit. If you cannot recognize this, you are not looking.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:02 AM

35. We refinanced in 2003 and just recently did it again..

this time our credit union holds our mortgage. I feel much better about that.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #35)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:03 AM

36. I'm wishing we had done the same.

I think we will look into this soon as one of the evil empire banks "holds" our mortgage. Now I am waiting for school to start so I have time to look for all the documents on this and figure out how screwn we really are.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #36)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 11:46 AM

39. Our mortgage was with Wells Fargo.

When we decided to refinance, I was really worried about documents, etc., but it went though just fine. We now have a 15 year, 2.8% mortgage with our credit union with the same payments as our previous 30 year, 5% (we had 20 years remaining.) I double and triple checked all recorded documents, especially the release from Wells Fargo. It was time consuming, but worth it.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:32 AM

37. not surprised at all. trying hard to think of a single large institution in this country that is

NOT corrupt and hateful to the very constituencies they are supposed to serve.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:05 PM

40. Years ago I was in and out of a lot of bank loading docks.

Once in a while we'd pull in to find a large compacting dumpster open and its contents spilled out all over the dock. Well dressed men and women were wading around in the mass of wet paper, coffee grounds and banana peels looking for something. I asked my sister, who worked at a bank, about it and she replied, "Somebody lost a note." I only half believed her at the time.

My how times have changed.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 03:38 PM

45. Anyone gone to jail yet; any pending resolution?

That's what I thought...

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 09:47 PM

50. This author is really confused.

The lawsuit doesn't mean what he thinks it means. It was about banks falsifying transfer instruments putting mortgages into the securities they were supposed to be backing, in order to claim government insurance when they blew up.

It's sort of related to the "robo-signing" debacle in home mortgage foreclosures, but it's not the same thing, and it's never been established that "they could not legally establish true ownership of the loans when trying to foreclose."

So far, banks HAVE been able, in most cases, to come up with real chains of assignment. Or at least, no one's had any reliable success showing that it's impossible to show who owns the mortgages.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 06:34 PM

54. DirkGently, you appear to be unfamiliar with Fannie Mae’s Servicing Guide.

Fannie, a REMIC, has a fun little workaround on those chains of Assignments - they ignore them in favor of instructing their servicers to create Assignments in their own favor and to file foreclosure actions in their own names.

Fannie Mae Servicing Guide

https://www.fanniemae.com/content/guide/svc031412.pdf

Section 202.07.01

“Fannie Mae is at all times the owner of the mortgage note, whether the mortgage loan is in Fannie Mae’s portfolio or part of the MBS pool. In addition, Fannie Mae at all times has possession of and is the holder of the mortgage note, except in the limited circumstances expressly described below. Fannie Mae may have direct possession of the note or a custodian may have custody of the note. If Fannie Mae possesses the note through a document custodian, the document custodian has custody of the note for Fannie Mae’s exclusive use and benefit.”

Section 103.02

If Fannie Mae is not the mortgagee of record for a mortgage loan, it does not need to execute any release or satisfaction documents. The servicer should execute any required satisfaction documents in its own name (or in MERS® name, if applicable for a MERS-registered mortgage loan).

Section 202.06

The servicer may execute legal documents related to payoffs, foreclosures, releases of liability, releases of security, mortgage loan modifications, subordinations, assignments, and conveyances (or reconveyances) for any mortgage loan for which it (or the Mortgage Electronic Registration System, or MERS®) is the owner of record. When an instrument of record relating to a single-family property requires the use of an address for Fannie Mae, including assignments of mortgage loans, foreclosure deeds, REO deeds, and lien releases, the following address must be used:

Fannie Mae
P.O. Box 650043
Dallas, TX 75265-0043

Pre Foreclosure

Section 107

“MERS must not be named as a plaintiff or foreclosing party in any foreclosure action, whether judicial or non-judicial, on a mortgage loan owned or securitized by Fannie Mae. When MERS is the mortgagee of record, the servicer must prepare an assignment from MERS to the servicer and bring the foreclosure in its own name unless Fannie Mae specifically allows the foreclosure to be brought in the name of Fannie Mae. In that event, the assignment must be from MERS to Fannie Mae, in care of the servicer at the servicer’s address for receipt of notices. The assignment must be prepared and executed before the foreclosure begins.”

Post Foreclosure

Section 107

In most states, the foreclosure attorney (or trustee) must initiate the proceedings in the servicer’s name (or in the participating lender’s name, if the servicer is not the mortgagee of record for a participation pool mortgage loan). The attorney (or trustee) must subsequently have title vested in Fannie Mae’s name in a manner that will not result in the imposition of a transfer tax. Examples of ways to accomplish this include the assignment of the foreclosure bid or judgment to Fannie Mae, inclusion of appropriate language in the judgment that directs the sheriff or clerk to issue a deed in Fannie Mae’s name, recordation of an assignment of the mortgage or deed of trust to Fannie Mae immediately before the foreclosure sale, recordation of a grant deed to Fannie Mae immediately following the foreclosure sale, etc. The servicer and the foreclosure attorney (or trustee) must determine the most appropriate method to use in each jurisdiction. If recordation of the assignment of the mortgage or deed of trust to Fannie Mae is the selected option, the assignment should not be recorded any earlier than is required by the state’s foreclosure procedures because of the possibility that the mortgage loan may be reinstated before the foreclosure sale.


http://stopforeclosurefraud.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/JP-Morgan-Chase-Bank-Natl.-Assn.-v-Butler.pdf

See page 9 – “Fannie Mae is at all times the owner of the mortgage note, whether the note is in our portfolio or whether we own it as trustee for an MBS trust.”

From the NY ruling: “Despite its December 2011 admission that FANNIE MAE owned the subject BUTLER mortgage and note, CHASE, prior to this, continuously presented its ownership subterfuge to Special Referee Goldstein and the Court. The Court cannot countenance the deceptive behavior of CHASE, the alleged owner of the subject BUTLER mortgage and note, its counsel, and FANNIE MAE, the real owner of the subject BUTLER mortgage and note. FANNIE MAE’s Servicing Guide, with its deceptive practices to fool courts, does not supercede New York law.”


My question to you DirkGently, is where are those “real chains of assignments?”

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #54)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 07:26 PM

55. Fannie & Freddie are "investors." Doesn't mean no one owns the mortgage

I'm not an expert on Fannie and Freddie, but they generally act as "investors," that back mortgages. When a mortgage fails, at some point it's going to be turned over to them, but they take control far before.

That may or may not be screwy, but it doesn't mean there's no owner, or the owner can't be established. And servicers are also permitted to foreclose in most states.

Your case sounds like a conflict over Fannie / Freddie wanting to be the holder of the note, but have the prior owner foreclose. I'd agree that's technically wrong, and if they get caught doing it, they ought to be made to correct it. But that would just mean tossing the paper back to the lender before the foreclosure begins.

Whether a particular mortgage has been successfully tracked and documented is always a fair question, but so far there is no rash of mortgage lenders getting tagged under the theory that "no one owns the mortgage" or any such thing.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #55)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 08:15 PM

56. DirkGently, I agree someone owns the mortgage and we’re discussing Fannie owned loans.

From their Guide:

“Fannie Mae is at all times the owner of the mortgage note, whether the note is in our portfolio or whether we own it as trustee for an MBS trust.”

We’ll use my mortgage as an example. It was purchased early August 2006. It’s a MERS mortgage and Fannie has owned my loan since November 1, 2006. Between MERS & a REMIC, I know I have a securitized mortgage loan. I don’t know though if it’s in Fannie’s portfolio or an MBS Trust.

My state is a must record state. There would have been several conveyances from the loan originator to Fannie for securitization. There was though only the original mortgage on file in my land records until late 2009.

So if Fannie owns my loan, where is their lien upon my property? If an MBS Trust is supposed to own my loan, where is their lien upon my property?

So we have all the conveyances to Fannie and possibly a Trust. Again I ask, where is the “real chain of Assignments?”

Now at the same time that Fannie owns my loan, there is my mortgage servicer who has filed two bogus, invalid, forged Assignments on my property claiming to own my loan.

So tell me, does the servicer own my loan or does Fannie? And just to paper over the gaps and breaks in my chain of Title that MERS and securitization created, the servicer claims to have purchased my loan, not from Fannie, but from the loan originator.

And if the loan originator owned my loan in August 2006 and Fannie owned it November 2006, how in the world could my servicer have supposedly purchased my loan from the loan originator in 2009?

And this is all consistent with Fannie Mae’s Servicing Guide. Even though they own the loans, they instruct servicers to file Assignments and claim they own the loans and even file foreclosure actions against homeowners, all while Fannie actually owns the loans.

I’m not saying no ones owns these loans, I’m saying there is no chain of Title with these loans and that the parties who are filing Satisfactions of Mortgages, Assignments, and foreclosure actions, are not the owners of the loans.

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #56)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 08:33 PM

58. Servicers can foreclose in most states.


It's not as complicated as you're making it sound. Fannie or Freddie may hold the paper, and have the originating lender (or someone else) service the debt. That's legally permissible. They can also in most cases have the servicer foreclose, in the servicer's name, because there are laws or case law allowing. Where it's not allowed, they're going to want to document the chain of assignments (not the same as "chain of title," by the way) so the servicer is the holder.

I can see them having trouble retracing their steps when MERS is involved, because I think they don't commit anything to paper until they need to show the chain.

But there's no indication they can't do that in most cases. If you're saying they've screwed up the ownership of the note in someway that is irretrievable, that hasn't held water in court for a lot of cases so far.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #58)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:34 PM

60. DirkGently, I’m aware that in some states one party can foreclose on behalf of another party.

That certainly doesn’t distress me. I’m troubled by the millions of instances that mortgage servicers have gone before the courts, falsely claiming to be the holder and owner of the Note, when at best, they merely held the Note. There are also the Assignments filed in the land records falsely claiming that servicers purchased and owned the Notes. That would be recording fraud.

From Fannie’s Servicing Guide:

Section 202.07.03

In most cases, a servicer will have a copy of the mortgage note. If a servicer determines that it needs physical possession of the original mortgage note to represent the interests of Fannie Mae in a foreclosure, bankruptcy, probate, or other legal proceeding, the servicer may obtain physical possession of the original mortgage note by submitting a request directly to the document custodian.


If a servicer claims to hold and own the Note, when Fannie actually owns the Note, it’s fraud upon the court and I’m certain that’s illegal in all of our states. The NY case I linked to earlier, is an example of a Judge discovering that while Chase claimed to own the loan, it was actually owned by Fannie and the foreclosure was prosecuted per Fannie's Servicing Guide.

Like many other states, my state is a must record state. There are consequences for not timely filing conveyances.

21 P.S. § 444 “All deeds and conveyances, … or whereby the title to the same may be in any way affected in law or equity, ……shall be recorded in the office for the recording of deeds where such lands, ….. are lying and being, within ninety days after the execution of such deeds or conveyance, and every such deed and conveyance that shall at any time after the passage of this act be made and executed in this commonwealth, and which shall not be proved and recorded as aforesaid, shall be adjudged fraudulent and void…..”

The conveyances of my mortgage and those of my fellow Pennsylvanians, transpired in the MERS database though, not the land records as required by PA law.

So if the conveyances weren't filed in our land records as required by law, and would be fraudulent and void if not filed, where is the "real chain of Assignments?"

So now I’ll say, not that they “screwed up the ownership of the note” but that they screwed up the conveyances and the Note is no longer secured by property.

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #60)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:15 AM

62. Nope. Ask a local lawyer, but "deeds & conveyances"

typically refer to transfers of the actual title to property, not an assignment of a lien interest like a mortgage. I doubt your state law means that all assignments of mortgage are invalid unless recorded. I don't know for sure, but that's not what those words would mean in a statute in my state.

There's also no difference between "holding" in the technical sense, and owning a note.

I do think Fannie's being a little cutesy if it maintains it "automatically" conveys notes to servicers just for the foreclosure, but the alternative would just be writing the same thing out on paper.

What do you believe they're getting away with that they should not?

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #62)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 03:19 AM

63. DirkGently, the Recorder of Deeds in Montgomery County, PA sued MERS to compel

them to file the missing Assignments in the land records and pay the associated recording fees. MERS argued that the law did not require the recordation of all Assignments. The court examined the law and ruled that yes, PA law requires the recordation of ALL Assignments. So MERS has a problem in Pennsylvania.

I have no idea what the words in this PA statute might mean in your state, but we have some people in this state including my attorney & I who take them to mean that a MERS mortgage contract in Pennsylvania lacks a lawful Mortgagee.

21 P. S. §711 “Mortgagee” includes any person, partnership, association, corporation, society, organization or fiduciary, holding a mortgage against real estate in a city or county of the first class, and entitled to payment of the mortgage debt, or the heir, legal representative, successor or assignee of any of the foregoing.”

Now, a Federal court has already looked at this and ruled that - MERS is Not a Mortgagee, is a valid cause of action.

So if you can, please explain to me how the mortgage could somehow be valid if it lacked a Mortgagee.

You wrote: “There's also no difference between "holding" in the technical sense, and owning a note.”

Okay, so Fannie owns the Note. If a mortgage servicer needs to hold the Note, Fannie will forward the Note to the servicer so the servicer may hold the Note in a foreclosure action. In your opinion, does the mere act of holding a Note transfer ownership of that Note? Here, we bump into proper Endorsements of Promissory Notes that transfer ownership.

And if the mere act of holding a Note accomplishes ownership, than Fannie’s document custodians must own a heck of a lot of Notes.

Oh, Fannie’s Servicing Guide has lots of “cutesy” instructions. After a servicer holds a Note and forecloses, there are the instructions regarding how to transfer the property to Fannie while avoiding any taxes.

So if one party owns the Note, while another party holds the lien, is that not bifurcation of the mortgage and Note? Does that not result in invalid mortgages and unsecured debt?

DirkGently, I enjoy my discussion with you and I’ve learned from you. While I’m examining how this industry is presently functioning, you understand how it’s supposed to function.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 11:02 PM

51. kick

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