Police 'Tank' Purchase Riles New Hampshire Town

[avaistheone1]

"We're going to have our own tank."

That's what Keene, N.H., Mayor Kendall Lane whispered to Councilman Mitch Greenwood during a December city council meeting.
It's not quite a tank. But the quaint town of 23,000 -- scene of just two murders since 1999 -- had just accepted a $285,933 grant from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to purchase a Bearcat, an eight-ton armored personnel vehicle made by Lenco Industries Inc.

But those plans are on hold for now, thanks to a backlash from feisty residents. Resistance began with Mike Clark, a 27-year-old handyman. Clark, who said he's had a couple encounters with Keene police and currently faces a charge of criminal mischief, read about the Homeland Security grant in the newspaper. "The police are already pretty brutal," Clark said, claiming he was roughed up in both his encounters with local police. "The last thing they need is this big piece of military equipment to make them think they're soldiers."

www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/16/police-tank-purchase-new-hampshire_n_1279983.html

[deadinsider]

1. Maybe Mr. Clark scares the cops

that's why they had to be so rough with him. And he's why they're buying the tank too.

[Maine-ah]

2. good lord...

I'm originally from one of the towns next over from Keene....a tank? Really, Keene, wtf do you need a tank for?

[Blue_Tires]

3. Because since 9/11 DHS has been a year-round Santa Claus

for even the smallest podunk police departments...Everyone wants new toys to play with...

[friendly_iconoclast]

5. Ding Ding Ding. We have a winnah!- Even college PDs are getting on the gravy train:

http://boingboing.net/2012/02/02/unc-charlotte-gets-its-own-swa.html

UNC-Charlotte gets its own SWAT team

[Blue_Tires]

17. So at least UNCC will be ready when Iran's show up at the campus gate...

[Kolesar]

44. As opposed to expecting every teenaged student to carry a gun to keep order...eom

[friendly_iconoclast]

67. You *do* know only the firearm-phobic say things like that, right?

Of course, if you can find someone seriously suggesting that, I'll gladly retract that statement.
Somehow, I don't think you will.

[kenfrequed]

72. I don't think it is an either-or proposition

I think we need a less militarized police force and for people to realize that, despite having the right to do so, building an arsenal or obsessing about carrying firearms around does not make people any more safe.

[gilpo]

45. The problem is that as the PD's become more militarized, they use the equipment on US citizens.

You just need look at the police responses to OWS for evidence that this is happening. Here's your shopping list for LE: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/205293.pdf

[xtraxritical]

14. Yep, everyone wants on the gravy train.

Not only do they waste outrageous amounts of taxpayer money on "big boy toys", they get outrageous perks and pensions too. Then when they actually do something they're hired to do the ingratiating yokels call them "heroes". Pin another medal on them .

[truth2power]

51. I was going to say, "We have a winnah!", but someone already did...

Unlimited funds for Homeland Security but nothing for our social safety net, and Hull House files bankruptcy and closes after a hundred+ years.

Cui bono. Tell me again who benefitted from 9/11? Certainly not the hundreds of thousands of poor people in the ME whom we've murdered, or even Sadaam (rolling up a former CIA asset) or bin Laden (again, a case of rolling up a former CIA asset).

Bush, Cheney, Rummy and the rest of those monsters who planned, or allowed it, if you're of that mind-set, are laughing their asses off while raking in the money (still).

[24601]

56. So why hasn't our admistration exercised some grown-up supervision here? Is

every department following DOE's example?

[Blue_Tires]

59. I'm thinking because no matter the party, once you get the label of

"Soft on Crime/Terrorism" slapped on you, your re-election chances drop to 1% (at least that's how it is in Va.)

And even more worrisome, for some of the high-tech, more experimental toys, cops become sort of like beta testers and the local community the test cases so there is a vested interest in keeping Christmas morning going...

[Atypical Liberal]

63. Fire departments, too.

The place I worked after 9/11 nearly everyone was on the volunteer fire department. They were all excited about all the new gear they were going to be able to buy with the "terrorism money".

[wordpix]

77. exactly right and meanwhile, DC has a LOT of security holes

I'm not stating them in public but really, DHS needs to close those holes before doling out money to small towns that will never be a terror target.

[FailureToCommunicate]

4. "A Sherman can give you a very nice.... edge."

[Sherman A1]

9. Indeed

Just nothing says law enforcement like an M4.

[Uncle Joe]

61. That's what Steven Seagal says.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss//duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1855595

"Actor Steven Seagal Sued for Driving Tank into Arizona Home, Killing Puppy"

[AlbertCat]

66. Keene, wtf do you need a tank for?

Really. They shoulda bought snow cone trucks!

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kent_county/Federal-cash-pays-for-Sno-Cone-makers

[Raven]

6. I live in the next community and

I cannot for the life of me understand why Keene needs this tank. Keene is a quiet little town where the worst thing that has happened in recent memory is a bunch of Keene State College students getting drunk after the annual Pumpkin Festival.

[Lasher]

50. The state police got them and now Keene city cops need one so they won't feel like sissies.

I mean, how would you feel showing up at the scene of an auto accident in a mere police car, and then the state police come along looking like they just rolled in off a battlefield in Afghanistan?

[just1voice]

64. "Arm the pumpkins"!

Some repuke psycho has had to have said it.

[midnight armadillo]

7. bearcat pic

[eyewall]

12. Looks like an "armored car", like a bank would use.

Waste of taxpayer's money and most likely an insider deal for the company that makes them.

[Aristus]

25. To paraphrase Crocodile Dundee: "That's not a tank!

THIS is a tank!" :

[eyewall]

37. LOL!

Yeah, that's what they need on the streets of Keene.

[Zalatix]

43. That's coming up next.

Soon as they can find a way to field an equivalent fighting vehicle on the roads, they'll have it, cannons and all.

[think]

8. Budget for DHS 2012: $46.9 billion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#Budget_breakdown_for_2012

[dixiegrrrrl]

34. Oh goood..guess we are not really broke , then.

whew!

[Denver Donkeys]

80. And 95% of it are being wasted on useless toys such as these.

Shut down this useless department and redirect the 46.9 billion on jobs and stimulus.

[Robb]

10. "...Scene of just two murders since 1999."

Somehow, that's less comforting than I bet it was meant to be.

Edited to add: Maybe the locals can tell us if that's printed in italics on the town's tourism brochures.

[christx30]

81. I guess that's

oppsed to places like Austin, Texas, which had 38 murders last year alone. So yeah. 2 murders in 10 years is very good. Nice peaceful place to live. They don't need a Bobcat. That's the thing about the toys that they get from DHS. When they get the toys, they want to use them. People's civil liberties will take a back seat. The cops will want to stir up trouble so they can solve the issues.
And the militerization of the police force will continue.

[secondwind]

11. We used to camp out in Keene, N.H. in the mid 70's

[Historic NY]

13. It will be just another rust spot in the parking lot in 5 yrs......

“When you can't sell military hardware to the military well, sell it to the police. Sad thing is taxpayer money will just produce a rust spot in the police dept's parking lot. After 911 its was money for luxury communicat­ion & command posts. These high ticket items all paid for by grants and good portion of them now are turning up at government auctions. Why these seldom used items are rusting away. It would be better to use the money to put more cops & fireman back on the street.”

[xtraxritical]

15. Screw that!

The last thing we need is more of these overgrown boy scouts with weapons on our streets. Use the money to pension them off and by attrition make our streets safer.

[lovuian]

16. I agree it is a Waste of Money

the only reason is there is because of kick backs and intimidation

[Johnny Rico]

18. Um...since when is an armoured car a tank?

These words have actual definitions.

[happyslug]

21. That is NOT the point here, why would ANY police force with 2 murders in 10 years need ANY armor.

Furthermore, the term "Tank" was invented as a Code name to cover up what the British was up to when it was being built. Until 1916 the "Tank" meant a water tank. Thus anything that does NOT look like this is NOT a tank:





Lets get real, the term "Tank" as it is used by MOST PEOPLE is NOT restricted to Water Tanks or even tracked armor vehicles. The term Tank includes water tanks, APC, MICV, Tracked Artillery, or anything else with made to hold liquid or has tracks.

[Johnny Rico]

22. I will freely grant than in 1912 the word "tank" had a different definition...but this is 2012.

That was then. This is now. Definitions of words change over time. Let's look at the definition of the word at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank

A tank is a tracked, armoured fighting vehicle designed for front-line combat which combines operational mobility and tactical offensive and defensive capabilities. Firepower is normally provided by a large-calibre main gun in a rotating turret and secondary machine guns, while heavy armour and all-terrain mobility provide protection for the tank and its crew, allowing it to perform all primary tasks of the armoured troops on the battlefield.

In the context of storage, a water tank is indeed a tank, yes. However, in the context of armoured vehicles, APCs, tracked artillery, tank destroyers, etc., are not tanks. If, as you assert, most people use the term "tank" to describe these vehicles (and I suspect that they do), then most people are simply wrong. They would be just as wrong if they described a destroyer as a "battleship" or a SIG 522 as a "machine gun".

Perhaps in 2112 there will be a new definition of this word...but this is the definition now.

[Hoyt]

48. Maybe because the NRA and other gun groups are promoting everyone arming up.

Although, I agree that this town should certainly be one of the last to need a armor vehicle.

[Johnny Rico]

53. I was under the impression that the NRA and other gun groups promoted the freedom to be armed.

I've never seen them promote the idea that everyone should do so. Could you provide documentation, please?

[Hoyt]

60. However you wish to characterize it -- clearing the path so more folks can carry guns, etc.

The NRA is a predominately right wing organization, promoting more guns and more public carrying, shill for manufacturers, "lobbies" Supreme and other courts, and worse.

Besides, most of those who are attracted to guns, and like to tote them around in public, are not in "a well regulated militia" as far as I can tell.

[EX500rider]

69. "....are not in "a well regulated militia" as far as I can tell."

Course you'd be wrong.
Dick Act of 1903
"Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the militia shall consist of every able-bodied male citizen of the respective States, Territories, and the District of Columbia, and every able-bodied male of foreign birth who has declared his intention to become a citizen, who is more than eighteen and less than forty-five years of age, and shall be divided into two classes—the organized militia, to be known as the National Guard of the State, Territory, or District of Columbia, or by such other designations as may be given them by the laws of the respective States or Territories, and the remainder to be known as the Reserve Militia."

[Hoyt]

70. Love it when you guys post that -- did you, or are you, going to turn guns in upon reaching age 45?

I would suggest you read Justice Stevens' dissent in Heller on what "a well regulated militia" means and pray that the composition of the Supreme Court does not change. Also pray that the right wing NRA keeps lobbying the Supreme and other courts to keep the pipeline to more guns open.

[EX500rider]

74. Where is the requirement to turn in the guns written into law exactly? n/t

[Hoyt]

75. Oh, don't be so literal. You post that BS and it says you ain't in the "regulated militia" after 45.

Use some sense, and not NRA reasoning.

Fact is, we all know what a "militia" is, and you and 98% of folks who can't venture out without a gun ain't in one.

[EX500rider]

76. Federal Law is BS?

"Fact" is, yes, all males 18 to 45 are in the Militia according to Federal Law, unless you can show where that was overturned?

[24601]

55. That doesn't metter here - preconceived ideas trumps facts. Which lends me to

wonder if meds affecting conception work only on the physical kind?

If you want a real tank - you got to watch out for the "Pussy Communists!"


"Sheriff Buelton demands military intervention from Carey's commanding officer, but the commander points out that Carey had already retired from the Army, so he's broken no military law (other than breaking a small section of fence to leave the base); he hasn't stolen the tank, which is legally his; and all his violations are of civilian law. He also happily points out the Posse Comitatus Act, prohibiting him from providing any military aid to civilian law enforcement. In a running joke of the movie, Sheriff Buelton does not understand the name of the act, and thinks he's being called a "pussy communist".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_(film)

[AlbertCat]

68. Um...since when is an armoured car a tank?

Since by either definition it is a waste of money.

[cstanleytech]

19. "If you can find them...maybe you can hire...the A-Team"

Sorry I couldnt resist, it was what first popped into my mind when I tried to imagine wtf they are doing buying this or in other words.........do they think they are the a-team?

[aikoaiko]

20. I hear the rare northern chupacabra has been sited in southwestern NH.

They'll need it.

[Ikonoklast]

23. My town PD got five thirty-plus-year-old Humvees.

They nearly broke their own arms patting themselves on the back for getting them, telling residents that even though we got them for free and the city is responsible for paying for their maintenance then have to give them back in three years; paid thousands of dollars to get them shipped here; and that three of them are now broke down and have been sitting behind the city service garage for six months because even though they got a ton of spare parts no one employed by the city knows how to fix them and city doesn't have the funds to pay an outside contractor, it was a great deal for taxpayers.


Fucking morons.


The city is technically insolvent due to ten years of mis-management and doesn't even have enough money to fill potholes, but SWAT team members got HUMVEES to play with.

[Johnny Rico]

24. Nitpick: The HMMWV (Humvee) was adopted in 1984.

They can't be more than 28 years old.

[Ikonoklast]

26. Close enough, ya think?

1985 build date for two of them, 1988 for the other three.

I read their numbers, original AM General first-generation build.

[Johnny Rico]

27. Close enough for government work

[Ikonoklast]

29. Those things are low-mileage JUNK.

But, they all have fresh paint jobs.

[Johnny Rico]

32. They get lousy milage, granted...but that's not what they were designed for.

For what they are (light military transport) they do a fine job. My understanding is that they have much better off-road performance that the vehicles they replaced.

[Aristus]

58. The vehicles they replaced? The jeep, the gamma goat, and the mule?

I don't think so. All three vehicles were tough, rugged, and had splendid off-road capability. And the jeep indisputably got better mileage. No, the Humvee's introduction smacked of corporate cronyism. Some congress critters got greased by some executives with inferior merchandise to peddle to the military. And the money mis-managers of the Ronald Reagan spend-spend-spend frenzy responded.

[Warren Stupidity]

38. Ah yes "close enough for government work"

Trillions of dollars worth of private sector managed mortgages have bungled and lost paper trails, but somehow nobody thinks "close enough for private enterprise".

[truth2power]

54. Ha hahaha...hello Ikonoklast. I'm in Ohio, and reading your post I thought..

"That's the kind of shit Ohio would do." So I looked up your profile and, wouldn't you know, your a Buckeye.

I feel your pain.

[Ikonoklast]

73. Sad, isn't it?

The stories I could tell you of the PD and FD running this town into bankruptcy would make you throw up.

They are close to being racketeers the way they use intimidation against elected officials, and the voters are like sheep.

[socialindependocrat]

28. What about Philly, then?

If Keene, NH gets an APC then Philly should get 20.

In Philly they have a shooting a day and two or three on the weekends and their cops just run around in squad cars.

We need to protest the waste of taxpayer's money!!!

[FarCenter]

30. Whatever happened to "One riot, one Ranger"?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

31. These vehicles look cool in 4th of July parades. Need more reasons? See the manufacturer's web site:

http://www.armoredtrucks.com/

[Mopar151]

33. Why would the city want it?

In stead of (my estimate on $$$): (1) Fullsize fire truck or: (3) ambulances or: (2) fully equipped snowplows

[tclambert]

35. DHS will spend money on tanks, while almost every city in the country is laying off police officers.

That sounds . . . oh, what's the word? . . . stupid, that's it.

[meanit]

36. The State Police have armored vehicles

The State Police could have an armored vehicle in Keene within a half an hour if one was ever needed.
Keene is also a college town. The local PD getting their own APC sounds like an intimidation tactic instead of a necessity.

[got root]

39. pissing our money away to create a psychopaths vision of utopia

fear sells

[RKP5637]

41. Makes one wonder what we've become and where we're headed. This is so F'ed up in so many ways! n/t

[KT2000]

42. We need a full accounting

of all the "grants" coming from Homeland Security. They are turning my corner of the country into a Border Patrol State with their huge budget. But I bet it is all Top Secret.

[drynberg]

46. SMALL PEACEFUL TOWN WITH BEARCAT=MIL INDUST PORK

ahhh, this ain't exactly getting a handle on the precious deficit, I might add.

[IamK]

47. Photo

It does look cool but I would paint flames on the side.

[CanonRay]

49. Instead of a stupid tank

why don't they hire 3-4 more cops and TRAIN them a little better. People could use the jobs, and the cops could sure use the training. Oh wait, the corporation than makes the tanks doesn't make anything? Sorry, nevermind.

[Javaman]

52. Barny Fife and his motorcycle...

[GreenPartyVoter]

57. Reminds me of M*A*S*H and 5 o'clock Charlie. (Frank requisitioned and

got an anti-aircraft gun for the unit.)

[yellowcanine]

62. "The last thing they need is this big piece of military equipment to make them think they're

soldiers." I don't know this guy Mike Clark or why he has gotten into trouble with the police, but he sounds pretty sensible to me.

I hate it the way we are militarizing our police forces. SWAT teams are way overused by local police forces and in many cases the resources would be better spent on hiring and training officers who can do community policing which defuses situations before they get out of hand. And there is something about a couple of police officers rolling up on bicycles which calms things down rather than in a cruiser with sirens and lights going every which way. You can buy a lot of police bikes for the cost of one cruiser let alone an armored vehicle. Oh yes, it is "okay" because it is Federal grant money. But we don't have enough money to hire more teachers, nurses, social workers, firefighters and police officers. What is wrong with this picture?

[Demeter]

65. That's Insane

There's NOTHING in KEENE. Not even bears.

[mysuzuki2]

71. You can never be too prepared.

I mean in case the Canadians invade NH or a herd of rabid moose move into town from Quebec.

[Gringostan]

78. Good for the residents

Good for the residents; it's way past time to demilitarize our local police.

[One_Life_To_Give]

79. Someone needs to police the DHS grants

To think of the millions handed out in grant money for crap that will never be used. Although the silver penned grant-writer probably secured a nice promotion to go with the quarter-million albatross.