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Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:14 AM

Edward Snowden Asking 15 Countries for Asylum, Russian Official Says

Source: Los Angeles Times

Edward Snowden asking 15 countries for asylum, Russian official says

By Sergei L. Loiko
July 1, 2013, 5:43 a.m.

MOSCOW -- Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who leaked U.S. security secrets and is now a fugitive, met Monday morning with Russian diplomatic officials and handed them an appeal to 15 countries for political asylum, a Russian Foreign Ministry official told The Times.

“It was a desperate measure on his part after Ecuador disavowed his political protection credentials,” said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity. ”In the document Snowden reiterated once again that he is not a traitor and explained his actions only by a desire to open the world’s eyes on the flagrant violations by U.S. special services not only of American citizens but also citizens of European Union including their NATO allies.”

The official didn’t disclose the countries that were on the list. The meeting took place at Moscow's Sheremetyevo International Airport, where Snowden has apparently holed up in a transit lounge since fleeing from Hong Kong while seeking a route to Ecuador or somewhere else that might grant him asylum.

Kirill Kabanov, a member of the Presidential Council on Human Rights, a Kremlin advisory body, said he believes that Russia is on the list.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-edward-snowden-asylum-15-countries-20130701,0,1183893.story

31 replies, 2122 views

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply Edward Snowden Asking 15 Countries for Asylum, Russian Official Says (Original post)
Hissyspit Jul 2013 OP
rtracey Jul 2013 #1
dkf Jul 2013 #2
RC Jul 2013 #3
still_one Jul 2013 #6
RC Jul 2013 #8
usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #13
brooklynite Jul 2013 #7
RC Jul 2013 #9
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #16
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #22
Turbineguy Jul 2013 #27
still_one Jul 2013 #4
brooklynite Jul 2013 #5
cyclezealot Jul 2013 #11
Hissyspit Jul 2013 #15
Catherina Jul 2013 #10
Hell Hath No Fury Jul 2013 #20
struggle4progress Jul 2013 #12
struggle4progress Jul 2013 #14
flamingdem Jul 2013 #17
alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #18
treestar Jul 2013 #19
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #23
treestar Jul 2013 #24
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #25
treestar Jul 2013 #26
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #29
shawn703 Jul 2013 #21
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #30
shawn703 Jul 2013 #31
Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #28

Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:20 AM

1. Sorry Dude

Sorry dude, but no one really cares what you do or say. You thought the world was going to roll the red carpet out for you, but now you are just a man without a country and marked as a thief.....hope you like Russian vending machine food, because when Ecuador turns you down....you are f'd.....

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Response to rtracey (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:27 AM

2. Yeah just the Chinese, Russians, Germans, French and on and on.

 

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Response to rtracey (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:29 AM

3. So you support our secret spying on everyone, shadow government?

 

How does that benefit you? How does that benefit anyone living in a free country?

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Response to RC (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:36 AM

6. Every country has been spying on each other before the cold war. The issue at stake is the

domestic spying, and what it involves, not the international spying.

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Response to still_one (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:39 AM

8. Can they even tell the difference anymore?

 

This is not what they mean by equal protection under the law.

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Response to still_one (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:45 AM

13. Not on this UNPRECEDENTED scale

 

FYI

Why do we want to do what the Stasi could only dream of?

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Response to RC (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:38 AM

7. No, and I din't support bank abuse either...

...but neither would I honor a bank robber who stole their money because "they deserved it".

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:42 AM

9. But if they exposed corruption in the home loan division by stealing copies of the paper work?

 

That is basically what Snowden did.

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Response to RC (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 01:02 PM

16. "That is basically what Snowden did." Sorry but you are 100% wrong RC.

If he had limited it to info on the PRISM program gathering the metadata of what phone numbers are called, when they are called and how often they are called thats one thing and I would probably agree with you for the most part (though I believe he legally could have reported it to a member of congress or the Inspector Generals office and they could have not charged him though I could be wrong) however he didnt limit it to that and has been providing information on other classified and unrelated intelligence gather efforts of the government on other governments to said other governments.
That is generally a major no no much like how it was a major no no for Libby to reveal the identity of Plame and he should have been jailed for it and not given a get out of jail card by Bush for assisting him.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #16)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:22 PM

22. His asylum plea would have no likelihood of being accepted by any

country had he simply talked about the domestic spying.

Our government has only itself to blame for what has happened.

And this morning it occurred to me that is, as so many apologists for this spying program suggest, "all governments do this," then the megadatabase of our metadata is ripe for harvesting by the spying agencies of all the countries on earth with technology sophisticated enough to tap into it.

Is that what we want? Is that what the NSA wants? To organize our data into a regular anthill of personal information about the social, business, familial and religious networks of Americans.

Now, wouldn't that be a treasure trove for actual terrorists or governments that might support them, to say nothing of a hostile foreign military?

What a stupid program.

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Response to RC (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 07:04 PM

27. Of course!

We are willing to forgo the entire Bill of Rights just to cause a minor inconvenience to Snowden.

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Response to rtracey (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:32 AM

4. he will find a country that will take him in. no matter what he says he is a traitor. he

Conspired to steal information to do harm to the US

he he is going out of his way to expose international spying by the United States

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Response to rtracey (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:35 AM

5. Actually, Sheremetyevo has all the comforts of home

Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, TGI Fridays...

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Response to rtracey (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:15 AM

11. Some do. Such as Whistle blower Thomas Drake.

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Response to rtracey (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 12:27 PM

15. Sorry dude

Don't speak for everybody.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:04 AM

10. Why would he hand appeals to other countries to Russian officials?

instead of having his companion deliver paperwork to the embassies that are less than 25 miles away? Is this protocol?

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Response to Catherina (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:20 PM

20. I am very curious to find out --

if he is even free right now to make any kind of requests. I wonder if Putin has gotten a hold of him and he is now going to go down a rabbit hole. Since everyone supposedly knows where Snowden is and keeping it a secret is no longer an issue, I wonder why he has gone totally silent.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:41 AM

12. Snowden Applies for Asylum in Russia


By ANDREW ROTH
Published: July 1, 2013

MOSCOW — Edward J. Snowden, the former national security staffer accused of espionage, has applied for political asylum in Russia, a Russian immigration official said on Monday ...

It usually takes a month for an application for political asylum to receive an answer from the Russian government, Vladimir P. Lukin, Russia’s human rights commissioner, said in an interview ...

A series of public figures in Russia have come out in recent days in favor of extending Mr. Snowden political asylum, and on Monday, the question was the subject of a round table at the Public Chamber, a Kremlin advisory body ...


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/02/world/europe/snowden-applies-for-asylum-in-russia.html?_r=0


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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:45 AM

14. Snowden Can Stay in Russia If He Wants – Putin

MOSCOW, July 1 (RIA Novosti) – Russian President Vladimir Putin said Monday that fugitive former US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden can stay in Russia, if he wants to.

“If he wants to go somewhere <another country> and is accepted, he can. If he wants to stay here, there is one condition: He must stop his work aimed at harming our US partners,” Putin said.

The Russian leader said Russia had no plans to extradite Snowden to the United States ...


http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130701/181989598/Snowden-Can-Stay-in-Russia-If-He-Wants--Putin.html

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #14)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 01:33 PM

17. Putin agrees to plug leaker

Snowden will likely not chose Russia, if given a choice. The optics would be terrible for him, not to mention how every word he speaks would be observed going forward.

Venezuela isn't much better with the Libertarian Retraining camps and all - lol

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 02:16 PM

18. Weird, seeing as that whole

Hong Kong
Russia
Cuba
Venezuela
Ecuador

thing was going so well.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 02:21 PM

19. Russian political asylum law just like ours:

The Russian Federation’s Law on Refugees defines who is a “refugee” for purposes of obtaining asylum in the country. The Law defines a refugee as a “person who is outside his/her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of persecution because of his/her race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail himself/herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution. Upon receiving an asylum seeker’s application, the Russian Federal Migration Service (“FMS”) determines whether the asylum seeker meets the legislative definition of a “refugee” and should be granted asylum.


Fleeing prosecution does not qualify.

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Response to treestar (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:25 PM

23. If the prosecution is for a political opinion or "crime," then I think a person

might apply for asylum in the US and might be accepted depending on the situation.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #23)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:39 PM

24. It has to be type of thing like you might see in some third world countries

where they have a crime called "insulting the head of state." Or where they get put in jail or house arrest for campaigning against the President/Dictator. This actually happens in some countries and these are the people who get political asylum if they can get out of the country. If Obama put Mittens in jail for campaigning against him, Mittens and his higher-up supporters would have a case.

No American has a case, ever.

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Response to treestar (Reply #24)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:50 PM

25. We wish.

But there are a number of countries in which the government would be quite happy to entertain the idea that the US holds political prisoners and enforces laws to silence legitimate dissenters.

It's all in your point of view. I could see Russia and Putin laughing all the way to signing the papers on an asylum claim. We constantly accuse other countries of civil rights violations like surveillance and punishment of journalists -- and here we are caught red-handed keeping metadata on everybody including journalists.

And remember, the tape that was released in Wikileaks in which our military in Iraq killed a journalist?

This is looking like we are not as keen on the right to a free press as we claim. We are looking a bit hypocritical.

Freedom of information? Not so much if it is embarrassing to our NSA.

And as I realized this morning, it is so stupid for the US to be assembling this treasure trove of detailed information on the social networks, religious, familial, business affiliations (and conflicts) of Americans. Because if some hostile group or nation ever managed to get into that database, It would be a disaster.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #25)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:55 PM

26. The US has no political prisoners

It has no crimes on the books that have to do with criminal punishment for political opinion. The closest perhaps the Communist statutes during the cold war, and even they were for registering, not being jailed for it per se. There is no way to be jailed for running for office, talking smack about the President or any office holder (and we all know that's true.) There is no American who would not get due process if charged - there is no American who qualifies for political asylum anywhere (at least in countries honest about who should get it, which on paper, even Russia is).

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Response to treestar (Reply #26)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 07:20 PM

29. We have a massive surveillance program (metadata surveillance program)

and someone dissenting about it. And that person would face prison if he dissented in the US. Seems to me that the dissent over this program is, on Snowden's part, taking the form of denouncing this program publicly. Is he to be punished for that dissent?

Dissent is in the eye of the beholder. Most countries that have punished people for political crimes deny that is what they are doing.

Fact is that we would not know about this program were it not for whistleblowers. Yet this program is invasive in our lives. It is the first step toward controlling our lives and us for political purposes.

The program is inconsistent with democracy. Sorry if some DUers have trouble comprehending that fact. Apparently Snowden did not.

Time will tell whether Snowden is a political prisoner or not.

Treason v. legitimate dissent. It is in the eye of the beholder. There are two ways to look at it.

Here is how Snowden sees himself:

In a letter to Ecuador seen by Reuters, Snowden said the United States was illegally persecuting him for revealing its electronic surveillance program, PRISM, but made it clear he did not intend to be muzzled.

"I remain free and able to publish information that serves the public interest," he said in an undated letter in Spanish sent to Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa.

"No matter how many more days my life contains, I remain dedicated to the fight for justice in this unequal world. If any of those days ahead realize a contribution to the common good, the world will have the principles of Ecuador to thank."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/01/us-usa-security-snowden-putin-idUSBRE9600QP20130701

Russia is willing to give Snowden asylum if Snowden stops talking about what he knows, but Snowden isn't ready. Putin says Russia doesn't give anyone up, and no one gives anyone up to Russia. I don't think that is true, but . . . . .

As always, history cannot be accurately predicted. Snowden apparently does not value his life as much as he does providing this information to the world. That is his decision. No one else can make it for him. I suspect that he thought the price he would pay through before he went to Hong Kong.

Unusual personality, but such people exist.

I would have kept the secrets and found a way to get out. But I admit that I am a coward. I just would never had the, take your pick, hubris or self-confidence to do what he is done. He must have been utterly horrified by what he saw in the program he was working on.

Usually, when people work in circumstances that force them to do things they find morally or politically repugnant, they just cynically collect their paychecks. I probably would. (I hate to admit it, but it is true.) And as you know from DU, I'm pretty opinionated and ready to say what I think.

Either Snowden is an unusual person or he was outraged and willing to sacrifice everything to get the news about what he saw out.

That a Snowden emerged from our society is a bad sign.

To me, the appearance of someone like Snowden, not Snowden himself, is yet another dangerous sign of the dwindling unity, pride and patriotic fervor in our country. But then, the existence of the program itself is an even greater sign of that same dwindling unity, pride and patriotic fervor in our country -- on the part of the very government we elected to govern us.

So, the social information we get from a) the existence of this Frankensteinian program and b) the fact that a young man is willing to sacrifice is life to expose it thoroughly is the really troubling thing here.

Makes me sad. The whole thing, the program and the fact that it the government didn't just expose and alter or abandon it on its own. Makes me very sad. And on top of all the other disunity we see in our country. This is not good.

But don't blame Snowden. He is just a symptom, not the cause. Same about this program. It is a symptom of a deeper distrust and cynicism.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 05:50 PM

21. What a spineless weasel

If you want sit in moral judgment of America by telling foreign powers about our espionage activities and how wrong it is, have the courage to come here and tell it to our faces.

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Response to shawn703 (Reply #21)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 07:26 PM

30. If you saw some government program for which you were employed

that horrified you, would you speak up or sink into silent cynicism?

I would probably quit and shut up, but I understand when a person works for a project that completely shakes their conscience. Must be awful pressure.

Maybe this program would not shake your conscience, but could you imagine something that would and how you would feel? What would you do?

Snowden understands all this internet stuff better than I do, but I can understand how he would see this program as a terrible threat.

I think it is stupid to amass that much information about the citizens of you country in a database that COULD BE HACKED by other countries. That thought occurred to me this morning when DUers argued that other countries are doing the same things.

This database is in my opinion more of a threat to our national security than an asset.

Does anyone who disagrees with me on that want to explain their reasoning? I could easily be wrong.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #30)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:12 PM

31. My disgust with Snowden has little to do with what he revealed about the NSA's domestic activities

And everything to do with what he told foreign powers about intelligence we have been gathering on them. Why did he have to cross that line? He's no patriot doing what he's doing out of love of country, just a lowlife scumbag looking out for number one.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 07:15 PM

28. Well, now that he has a list maybe he does not think Russia is the best stopping point after all.

He may even think prison time here might be better than what he has experienced in the past week.

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