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Sun May 19, 2013, 12:33 PM

Pope warns Church against closing in on itself

Source: Reuters



VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Francis warned the Catholic Church to not close in on itself at a Mass to mark Pentecost Sunday attended by more than 200,000 people, urging the faithful to be open and present in a new and changing world.

The Church should ask itself daily whether it is resisting new challenges and remaining "barricaded in transient structures which have lost their capacity for openness to what is new," he said.

"Newness always makes us a bit fearful, because we feel more secure if we have everything under control," Francis said in his homily in front of a packed St. Peter's Square, adding that change can bring fulfillment. The Pentecost Mass marks the day the Church says the Holy Spirit descended on Christ's apostles, or disciples, and is regarded as the birthday of the Church.

Francis warned of the threat of an institution which is "self-referential, closed in on herself," and spoke of the courage to "take to the streets of the world" and reach "the very outskirts of existence".

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/pope-warns-church-against-closing-itself-133121705.html

59 replies, 6117 views

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Arrow 59 replies Author Time Post
Reply Pope warns Church against closing in on itself (Original post)
onehandle May 2013 OP
AlbertCat May 2013 #1
Cal33 May 2013 #21
Paulie May 2013 #25
AlbertCat May 2013 #37
Cal33 May 2013 #59
rocktivity May 2013 #2
lindysalsagal May 2013 #12
rocktivity May 2013 #16
lindysalsagal May 2013 #57
Cal33 May 2013 #22
TrogL May 2013 #3
MNBrewer May 2013 #6
ForgoTheConsequence May 2013 #8
SharonAnn May 2013 #10
Arugula Latte May 2013 #19
SharonAnn May 2013 #24
Hekate May 2013 #11
tavalon May 2013 #18
susanr516 May 2013 #38
GTurck May 2013 #47
Cal33 May 2013 #23
Tippy May 2013 #4
Pterodactyl May 2013 #5
Zoeisright May 2013 #17
Pterodactyl May 2013 #33
Arugula Latte May 2013 #20
Pterodactyl May 2013 #32
Arugula Latte May 2013 #34
Pterodactyl May 2013 #35
Arugula Latte May 2013 #36
Pterodactyl May 2013 #44
Arugula Latte May 2013 #49
trotsky May 2013 #51
Arugula Latte May 2013 #52
Pterodactyl May 2013 #53
Arugula Latte May 2013 #54
Pterodactyl May 2013 #55
Arugula Latte May 2013 #56
Pterodactyl May 2013 #58
Bluenorthwest May 2013 #7
MADem May 2013 #9
Hekate May 2013 #13
MADem May 2013 #15
Posteritatis May 2013 #29
lindysalsagal May 2013 #14
defacto7 May 2013 #26
ZRT2209 May 2013 #27
Vietnameravet May 2013 #28
Bluenorthwest May 2013 #30
Arugula Latte May 2013 #31
Vietnameravet May 2013 #41
Phillip McCleod May 2013 #39
Crow73 May 2013 #40
Vietnameravet May 2013 #42
madrchsod May 2013 #43
cap May 2013 #45
snooper2 May 2013 #46
Arugula Latte May 2013 #48
freshwest May 2013 #50

Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2013, 12:50 PM

1. Hmmmmmm.... about 1000 or so years late...

...doncha think?

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #1)

Sun May 19, 2013, 03:12 PM

21. Yes, but better late than never. Pope Francis is doing what his predecessors should

have done long ago. He wasn't around 1000 years ago. And he is doing it only
2 short months after having become pope. And he sure has a lot more changes
to make -- in fact, he has an ocean of changes facing him. For Pete's sake, give
the man some time!

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #21)

Sun May 19, 2013, 05:13 PM

25. Shouldn't that be for "St. Pete's sake?"

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #21)

Sun May 19, 2013, 09:45 PM

37. give the man some time!

C'mon! He's way too late. I mean it only took a mere 300 years to pardon Galileo! This revelation shoulda happened in like 1512!

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #37)

Thu May 23, 2013, 09:04 AM

59. I wonder if in your subconscious mind you're thinking that there's been only one pope. There

Last edited Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:43 PM - Edit history (1)

have been something like 250 popes over the 2,000 year history of the
Catholic Church. The average life expectancy of popes comes out to be
8 years.

And each pope has to start from scratch. Each pope is different, has
different priorities, and must make his own agenda. Also, over a period of
2,000 years the backlog of things to be done but have not yet been done
has accumulated and grown to a monstrous size. Which are the most
important and should be done first? Take your pick! And each pope has
some difference in ideas as to which are the most important and should be
done first.


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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2013, 12:53 PM

2. Talk about closing the barn door after the horse has gone out

(if you pardon the smiley)
rocktivity

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #2)

Sun May 19, 2013, 01:59 PM

12. I pardon you, my son.

Now, go in peace. Can I hear an amen?

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Response to lindysalsagal (Reply #12)

Sun May 19, 2013, 02:31 PM

16. Thanks

but that should be "my DAUGHTER..."


rocktivity

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #16)

Tue May 21, 2013, 09:42 PM

57. To quote a famous presidential candidate: "Oops."

Us priests don't see that good, you know.

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #2)

Sun May 19, 2013, 03:15 PM

22. The same statements above applies here. He wasn't around 1000 years

ago, but he is pope now. Give him some time.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2013, 12:57 PM

3. That's a huge dog whistle

I'm hearing LGBT and married priests

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Response to TrogL (Reply #3)

Sun May 19, 2013, 01:21 PM

6. Hard to say

Could mean anything. Or nothing.

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Response to TrogL (Reply #3)

Sun May 19, 2013, 01:44 PM

8. You need to get your hearing checked.

.

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Response to TrogL (Reply #3)

Sun May 19, 2013, 01:48 PM

10. And ordination of women?

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Response to SharonAnn (Reply #10)

Sun May 19, 2013, 03:03 PM

19. No, silly. The church knows we wimmenfolks are second-class citizens and unclean.

Thank goodness they've stomped us into the dirt for centuries, for our own good, you know.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #19)

Sun May 19, 2013, 05:06 PM

24. They tried it with me but it didn't work. I'm just too "uppity".

I finally decided that the Church can't be changed by women from "within" since we have no role in it. So I left it behind. They'll have to figure it out themselves.

Of course, if they want to invite us back in and let us have a seat at the table, we could give them a lot of help in "fixing" the Church. But I doubt that they want that.

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Response to TrogL (Reply #3)

Sun May 19, 2013, 01:59 PM

11. Could well be right, TrogL. Married priests would open the door wide for further change.

Fingers crossed here.

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Response to TrogL (Reply #3)

Sun May 19, 2013, 02:57 PM

18. I'm cautiously impressed with this Pope

I despised the other one.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #18)

Sun May 19, 2013, 09:46 PM

38. Agreed.

He seems to be saying the right things. Time will tell, but at the moment, I'm cautiously optimistic.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #18)

Mon May 20, 2013, 10:43 AM

47. Me too...

I have fallen far away since Leo was made Pope. It seemed the Church was becoming what it was in my 40's-50's childhood or worse more fundamentalist. Every priest is different and each diocese too but they do follow where the Pope points and perhaps Francis will point somewhere more spiritual and modern.

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Response to TrogL (Reply #3)

Sun May 19, 2013, 03:23 PM

23. This is my personal opinion: Having married priests is a possibility. But

forget LGBT. It's against the basic doctrines of the church. Sex is
tolerated for married couples only. Anything outside of that is a mortal
sin! I don't think even Pope Francis would want to change that -- at
least, not now. Maybe in another 1000 years???

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2013, 01:02 PM

4. Good News....Pope Francis...Thank You...

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2013, 01:21 PM

5. Excellent advice.

The church has grown amazingly over the past 2,000 years. Or 2,000, plus approximately four to correct for Christ's birth, minus approximately 33 for Christ's life, death and resurrection. And it does not survive and grow by sitting still!

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #5)

Sun May 19, 2013, 02:55 PM

17. LOL!!!

Uh huh. Hating women, denying birth control, marginalizing the LGBT crowd, the Spanish Inquisition, witch hunts, supporting Nazis - SUUUURREEEE the church has grown. Into a hateful, bigoted bunch of narrow minded little creeps who are sitting on piles of gold.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #17)

Sun May 19, 2013, 07:37 PM

33. You're right. We give up. Henceforth, all will be returned to the Roman Empire.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #5)

Sun May 19, 2013, 03:06 PM

20. Yeah -- "grown" by plunder, torture and wielding its power against women, gays, kids and

non-believers, or other-believers, all the while using Bronze Age mythology to justify everything.

Think of all the misery its policies have caused. The birth control ban alone has contributed hugely towards poverty and disease in developing nations.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #20)

Sun May 19, 2013, 07:31 PM

32. Your concern about birth control in the fourth century Mediterranean is duly noted.

Presumably we'd be better off with Roman or barbarian culture.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #32)

Sun May 19, 2013, 08:16 PM

34. Fourth century? What are you talking about?

That institution has supressed access to birth control well into the present day. Look at those assholes from the church (male, of course) who testified in front of Congress LAST YEAR against birth control access.

And, yeah, I wish paganism had kicked Christianity's butt back in the day, but the Church was/is viscious and successful at stomping down other belief systems through fear and mass slaughter (and then co-opting all the ancient pagan holidays, of course). Christ's "resurrection" -- yeah, it's funny how that little myth corresponds with the rebirth of life in spring. Coincidence? Ask Eostre.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #34)

Sun May 19, 2013, 08:37 PM

35. Why you gotta be hatin'?

The church has been working on this for 2,000 years and we're going to keep at it. despite the hatred you fling.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #35)

Sun May 19, 2013, 08:47 PM

36. Because I'm sick of the Church's hatred of women and gays and others.

I'm not "hatin'" on the Church just for kicks. It has a long and shameful history of oppression, cover-ups, scandals, plunder, misogyny, homophobia, molestation, greed, torture, etc. It's not like the Catholic Church is some benevolent institution that smells like roses. It has caused untold human misery in its existence. Its purpose is to grab and control power for a select group of men, while peddling Bronze Age and Iron Age mythology to the masses. You might as well ask "Why you gotta be hatin' on the Republicans?" The Church and the GOP have similar aims and mindsets.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #36)

Mon May 20, 2013, 09:25 AM

44. The Church is not the same as the GOP!

There are MILLIONS of devout Democrats, including Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #44)

Mon May 20, 2013, 11:26 AM

49. So because there a some nice Catholics that negates all the s@#$ the church has done

and continues to do to this day?

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #49)

Mon May 20, 2013, 02:35 PM

51. So far they're hitting all the standard responses.

Once they've exhausted them all, you will be declared an "anti-Catholic bigot." We aren't allowed to discuss the powerful anti-progressive force their church has been for the last 2000 years - we can only talk about the good parts.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #51)

Mon May 20, 2013, 03:04 PM

52. Oh, I already got called that

by the poster whose name rhymes with schmadinschmezinski, of course.

Yes, if you point out that the Church is officially misogynistic and homophobic then you're a bigot.

One reason I continue to speak out is I am so bloody sick of the free pass religion gets in this society. If something is labeled "faith" we're all supposed to fall over ourselves to "respect" it and not say a peep against it. I call b.s. on that attitude! Religion has done untold harm to this country and to this planet. That needs to be said more often.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #49)

Mon May 20, 2013, 10:52 PM

53. What! Stuff like the Spanish Inquisition does not continue to this day.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #53)

Mon May 20, 2013, 11:18 PM

54. Yet the anti-gay and anti-women policies continue.

Go figure.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #54)

Tue May 21, 2013, 09:21 AM

55. What exactly is anti-woman about it?

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #55)

Tue May 21, 2013, 10:46 AM

56. Lol. You've got to be kidding me.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #56)

Tue May 21, 2013, 10:14 PM

58. Ha ha! No. I'm not.

Approximately half the world population of Catholics are female. Not sure why they are members of an organization that hates them. Probably the same reason half the Klan was black.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2013, 01:26 PM

7. Yes, and the GOP is going to reach out to minorities too!

The hypocrisy of this man and his organization, the lack of self inspection, it just gets tiresome.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2013, 01:45 PM

9. I think this guy's gonna be trouble.

In a good way, mind you.

I don't expect him to be the guy who makes the Big Changes, but I think he's the one who will till the fields to make the soil receptive to a new crop of ideas.

He's smart to cook his own meals. He should probably do his own shopping, just to be on the safe side. He'd do well to invite one of those well-larded Cardinals to dinner each and every night! That'll keep him healthy!

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Response to MADem (Reply #9)

Sun May 19, 2013, 02:02 PM

13. He's still cooking for himself?!

I never thought of that, but you could be right that this is a good idea both spiritually and corporeally. Long life and good health to him, and may this Francis lead his broken church back to health.

Hekate

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Response to Hekate (Reply #13)

Sun May 19, 2013, 02:11 PM

15. So "they" say...

I don't know if he's doing it exclusively, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Apparently he's not above ordering a pizza for dinner, either.

He's within an easy stroll of some nice ristorantes, trattorias and osterias, and not all of them are expensive, either. There are a few little old "hole in the wall" places off side streets of side streets where it's possible to get a good meal for not much money. He might want to "dress down" and go out to eat on occasion--it would do him good.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #13)

Sun May 19, 2013, 06:19 PM

29. He always had before, pretty sure he still is

He might still be living in the hotel too, but I'm not sure about that. (He's said several times he's really uncomfortable with the official papal apartments.)

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2013, 02:02 PM

14. Shattering myth no. 1: The church doesn't change. It's perfect. Back away slowly.

Religions change with societies. Always did. Always will. Religion is man-made, as are their deities.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2013, 05:13 PM

26. Smoke and mirrors.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2013, 05:18 PM

27. Amen.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2013, 05:30 PM

28. Lets not be so negative

It's a step in the right direction and if we are smart we will be the first to welcome this change and work with the Pope and others of like mind.;otherwise the right wing will jump aboard and turn this against us..
Religion is a powerful force and we should work with the religious crowd where we can,...and not make another enemy and create another opportunity for the right with our negativity..

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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #28)

Sun May 19, 2013, 06:31 PM

30. Welcome what change? A few muttered words from a guilty old homophobic protector of child

abusers? Where is the change? Did he turn the guilty into authorities? Did he apologize for his hateful words about good people? Has he announced a plan to make penance for the harm he has done to innocents for the sake of his own power and enrichment?

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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #28)

Sun May 19, 2013, 07:27 PM

31. "otherwise the right wing will jump aboard and turn this against us"

Oooooh! I'm a-skeered now!

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #31)

Mon May 20, 2013, 07:59 AM

41. Hey my man..we should make every alliance we can..leave no stone unturned..

have you forgotten how everyone said the GOP was dead after Obama was elected the first time and what happened two years later?

I say "Crush them" meaning Republican radicals and turn every single group against them,. hell if we could ally ourselves with Stalin against Hitler we can certainly reach out to the millions of Catholics who comprise one of the largest voting blocks in the counry.. ( now watch someone say I am comparing the Pope to Stalin..)

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2013, 11:15 PM

39. this is latest breaking news? really?!?

 

this is like covering pat robertson and treating him like he's welton gaddy.

when will liberal believers get it?

this man is a conservative. *very* conservative. he's an international *rick santorum* and you ask us to respect him at the very real risk of respecting you.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Mon May 20, 2013, 06:18 AM

40. A Speech of Bravery Embracing........... what?

 

What is the issue or group of people the church will now stop being ignorant buffoons in apposing acceptance?
A) Women
B) Contraception
C) Abortion
D) Homosexuals
E) Big Foot

----------------------------------
I am going to go with Big Foot.
Because honestly they really are that stupid.

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Response to Crow73 (Reply #40)

Mon May 20, 2013, 08:05 AM

42. None of those but

he has said some good things about social justice which we can build on.

Eventually the church will change its views in spite of their insistence they dont...not today and not tomorrow but eventually..

Meantime at the very least we should not come off as hostile to Catholics and people of religion..

FYI I was raised a Catholic and now I do not believe any religion but I am still willing to try to form bonds with people of religion for a common goal where I can..


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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Mon May 20, 2013, 08:56 AM

43. speeches are nice but action is far more important

clean all the molesters from the house and give the sisters the power equal to the priests.

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #43)

Mon May 20, 2013, 09:44 AM

45. Agreed..

Pope Francis is making a number of happy noises but when you look and see what he is actually doing.... Not so much

Read NCR at www.ncronline.org about the investigation of the sisters and you will have a lot less to cheer about

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Mon May 20, 2013, 10:21 AM

46. Yeah, like that time you guys fought the whole "Earth around Sun" thing



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Response to snooper2 (Reply #46)

Mon May 20, 2013, 11:24 AM

48. Yeah, but they took prompt action and apologized to Galileo

350 years after his death.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Mon May 20, 2013, 02:29 PM

50. Definitely a thinker. Wonder what's next.

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