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Thu May 16, 2013, 06:46 AM

Now Venezuela is running out of toilet paper

Source: AP-Excite

By FABIOLA SANCHEZ and KARL RITTER

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - First milk, butter, coffee and cornmeal ran short. Now Venezuela is running out of the most basic of necessities - toilet paper.

Blaming political opponents for the shortfall, as it does for other shortages, the embattled socialist government says it will import 50 million rolls to boost supplies.

That was little comfort to consumers struggling to find toilet paper on Wednesday.

"This is the last straw," said Manuel Fagundes, a shopper hunting for tissue in downtown Caracas. "I'm 71 years old and this is the first time I've seen this."

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20130516/DA6A8AMO2.html





A woman who just bought toilet paper at a grocery store reads her receipt as she leaves the private store in Caracas, Venezuela, Wednesday, May 15, 2013. First milk, butter, coffee and cornmeal ran short. Now Venezuela is running out of the most basic of necessities _ toilet paper. Economists say Venezuela's shortages stem from price controls meant to make basic goods available to the poorest parts of society and the government's controls on foreign currency. (AP Photo/Fernando Llano)

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Reply Now Venezuela is running out of toilet paper (Original post)
Omaha Steve May 2013 OP
fasttense May 2013 #1
hack89 May 2013 #3
dotymed May 2013 #6
another_liberal May 2013 #8
msanthrope May 2013 #10
dotymed May 2013 #13
Dreamer Tatum May 2013 #40
dotymed May 2013 #90
Dreamer Tatum May 2013 #108
Fearless May 2013 #124
MADem May 2013 #147
joshcryer May 2013 #150
bitchkitty May 2013 #159
backwoodsbob May 2013 #167
TeamPooka May 2013 #165
Dreamer Tatum May 2013 #166
msanthrope May 2013 #70
freshwest May 2013 #84
dotymed May 2013 #92
melm00se May 2013 #17
treestar May 2013 #42
melm00se May 2013 #59
JustABozoOnThisBus May 2013 #89
Jackpine Radical May 2013 #102
Peace Patriot May 2013 #62
Nye Bevan May 2013 #100
bitchkitty May 2013 #114
hack89 May 2013 #117
joshcryer May 2013 #143
Peace Patriot Jun 2013 #174
hack89 Jun 2013 #175
freshwest May 2013 #171
xtraxritical May 2013 #32
Bo May 2013 #82
dotymed May 2013 #93
dipsydoodle May 2013 #2
Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #5
Comrade Grumpy May 2013 #38
KamaAina May 2013 #43
Ash_F May 2013 #72
KamaAina May 2013 #74
Ash_F May 2013 #75
KamaAina May 2013 #76
Ash_F May 2013 #86
redwitch May 2013 #103
KamaAina May 2013 #111
redwitch May 2013 #123
KamaAina May 2013 #125
joshcryer May 2013 #136
Kolesar May 2013 #16
JustABozoOnThisBus May 2013 #88
sulphurdunn May 2013 #4
dotymed May 2013 #11
rbixby May 2013 #33
geek tragedy May 2013 #34
dotymed May 2013 #95
another_liberal May 2013 #7
msanthrope May 2013 #9
KansDem May 2013 #12
bitchkitty May 2013 #14
Warren Stupidity May 2013 #15
Catherina May 2013 #28
Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #29
Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #18
Archae May 2013 #19
Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #21
Archae May 2013 #23
Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #27
joshcryer May 2013 #141
WinkyDink May 2013 #24
Archae May 2013 #25
Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #77
Archae May 2013 #87
Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #113
dotymed May 2013 #96
bitchkitty May 2013 #107
bitchkitty May 2013 #61
Archae May 2013 #63
dotymed May 2013 #98
Archae May 2013 #106
TreasonousBastard May 2013 #20
Warren Stupidity May 2013 #35
TreasonousBastard May 2013 #41
Archae May 2013 #64
polly7 May 2013 #65
Archae May 2013 #66
polly7 May 2013 #67
Ash_F May 2013 #73
bitchkitty May 2013 #105
Nye Bevan May 2013 #101
TreasonousBastard May 2013 #131
joshcryer May 2013 #138
Catherina May 2013 #144
joshcryer May 2013 #145
idwiyo May 2013 #156
joshcryer May 2013 #142
Pterodactyl May 2013 #22
hack89 May 2013 #26
roody May 2013 #161
hack89 May 2013 #162
geek tragedy May 2013 #30
CBGLuthier May 2013 #31
Judi Lynn May 2013 #36
Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #37
geek tragedy May 2013 #44
Blue_Tires May 2013 #160
Comrade Grumpy May 2013 #39
brooklynite May 2013 #45
Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #47
geek tragedy May 2013 #46
polly7 May 2013 #49
Catherina May 2013 #50
Warren Stupidity May 2013 #51
Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #53
Dreamer Tatum May 2013 #109
Comrade Grumpy May 2013 #112
Dreamer Tatum May 2013 #115
Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #119
Dreamer Tatum May 2013 #120
Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #126
Dreamer Tatum May 2013 #127
Ash_F May 2013 #83
Marrah_G May 2013 #116
joshcryer May 2013 #139
Sand Wind May 2013 #48
olddots May 2013 #52
socialsecurityisAAA May 2013 #54
RebelOne May 2013 #55
socialsecurityisAAA May 2013 #60
Imajika May 2013 #56
Archae May 2013 #58
Archae May 2013 #57
Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #68
mysuzuki2 May 2013 #69
Throd May 2013 #71
leveymg May 2013 #78
Catherina May 2013 #80
Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #79
marasinghe May 2013 #81
Dreamer Tatum May 2013 #110
Ash_F May 2013 #85
BainsBane May 2013 #91
Cooley Hurd May 2013 #94
brooklynite May 2013 #121
Freddie Stubbs May 2013 #97
Nye Bevan May 2013 #99
Sunlei May 2013 #104
Throd May 2013 #118
brooklynite May 2013 #122
Democracyinkind May 2013 #128
Pterodactyl May 2013 #129
joshcryer May 2013 #137
daleo May 2013 #130
idwiyo May 2013 #132
Peace Patriot May 2013 #133
Exultant Democracy May 2013 #134
idwiyo May 2013 #135
joshcryer May 2013 #140
idwiyo May 2013 #148
joshcryer May 2013 #149
Socialistlemur May 2013 #151
idwiyo May 2013 #154
MADem May 2013 #146
Theyletmeeatcake2 May 2013 #152
Pterodactyl May 2013 #153
Nimajneb Nilknarf May 2013 #155
Ter May 2013 #157
happyslug May 2013 #158
Judi Lynn May 2013 #163
msanthrope May 2013 #164
Judi Lynn May 2013 #168
msanthrope May 2013 #169
Bacchus4.0 May 2013 #170
Zorro Jun 2013 #173
24601 May 2013 #172

Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 06:54 AM

1. It's amazing the kind of pressure the elite corporate capitalists can put on a country

Just because they don't like the kind of government they have.

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Response to fasttense (Reply #1)

Thu May 16, 2013, 06:59 AM

3. This was self inflicted

price controls are bad economic policy.

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Response to fasttense (Reply #1)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:13 AM

6. It is so indicative

of oligarchic hegemony. They will do anything to topple a govt. that actually wants to help their poor and bring equality through a Socialist economy and governance. Especially a country with large reserves of natural resources.
It has pissed the oligarchs off terribly that Venezuela has helped the poor globally through their heating oil give- aways. "They know that if left alone (treated like other countries), Venezuela would show the world that capitalism is only meant to enrich the few.
No capitalistic, "let them eat cake" country would suffer these shortages of basic necessities. Hey, they can afford to pay the capitalists....

"CONFESSIONS OF AN ECONOMIC HIT MAN", BY John Perkins, is a must read if you want to understand the depths that capitalists (America especially) will go to, to control an economy that is resource rich.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #6)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:15 AM

8. Well put.

Thank you.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #6)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:18 AM

10. Could you explain how 'oligarchic hegemony' made the toilet paper go away?

Show the steps?

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #10)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:34 AM

13. Sure msanthrope.

Did you not read about the MSM using propaganda to create artificial demand on a staple that is actually
plentiful? It is done In America everyday to cause "oil shortages", etc.. by the oligarchs. They bet on the future of a commodity and drive the prices up (pure profit), which actually DOES create a (price-based) shortage.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #13)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:44 PM

40. Suppose that steaming stack of horseshit is true


If there was an actual market for toilet paper, instead of a Chavez lackey deciding how people wipe their asses, the "artificial demand" would be met with "actual supply".

Oooooh, such FREEDOM they have. In exchange for some company not making a few bolivars of profit, people agree to wipe their asses with pages from books. How EVOLVED.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #40)

Fri May 17, 2013, 06:09 AM

90. Have some more kool-aid.

instead of a Chavez lackey deciding how people wipe their asses, the "artificial demand" would be met with "actual supply".

IF you read the story, they are flooding the market with toilet paper (some oligarch is smiling) to stop the panic buying and subsequent price gouging that this propaganda caused.


Oooooh, such FREEDOM they have. In exchange for some company not making a few bolivars of profit, people agree to wipe their asses with pages from books. How EVOLVED

You are really informed.....it is impressive.

I did miss (at first read, you're reference to PROFIT).....wow, now that IS important.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #90)

Fri May 17, 2013, 11:37 AM

108. If a government is so inept that it can't keep asses wiped

it's not wonder that Venezuela is so inept at everything else.

It's the PRICE CONTROLS. THEY DO NOT FUCKING WORK.

Know what's probably happening? The government toilet paper manufacturer (probably a Chavez monkey) is required to sell at the government-mandated price. This causes said Chavez monkey to sell X rolls at that price, which go to market, and the REST of the production is sold on the black market at MUCH HIGHER prices. Chavez monkey makes money for himself, kicks a cut to other Chavez monkeys to keep quiet, and they all have a nice thick steak while rank and file Venezuelans are forced to use their government-issued copies of The Communist Manifesto for its most valuable purpose. The result? Wealth accrues to Chavez monkeys instead of capitalists (which, let's face it, is the point of all this "socialism"), shelves are bare due to the contrived shortage, and people buy more than they would because they're afraid the Chavez monkey will want to divert MORE to the black market.

(if you scoff at that, see Union, Soviet.)

Meanwhile, in sane countries that don't mind if shareholders of a corporation earn a profit so long as they have access to plentiful asswipe, life goes on as it should.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #108)

Fri May 17, 2013, 01:16 PM

124. Funny how a criminal

Whether capitalist or socialist or anything finds a way around rules and regulations. Where there's a will, there's a way.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #108)

Mon May 20, 2013, 09:14 PM

147. Yes, indeed. The government has touched bottom (pun intended) with this latest circumstance.

The toilet paper may be the straw that breaks the Boligarch's corrupt backs...

Remember when they limited access to dollars in VZ? Hugo's willful daughter (the Justin Beiber fan) posted FB pics of herself fanning out a wad of greenbacks.

There are rules for some, and privileges for others.

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Response to MADem (Reply #147)

Tue May 21, 2013, 04:51 AM

150. Heh, water wasn't even running in Caracas.

As if they could flush their toilet paper in the event they had any...

But yeah, Chavez' daughters actions were deplorable, but, that's what we see in Venezuelan circles of the elite chavistas, and hell, there was an expose of Cubans who acted the same way. They're true role models for ... capitalism. (And again, I say this as a socialist, because I don't think those states are socialist at all. My criticisms are from the left, not the right, as so many would want you and others to believe.)

(Note: the water is back on but during the time these shortages started, the water wasn't on for a huge chunk of Caracas.)

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #150)

Tue May 21, 2013, 01:57 PM

159. Oh, now you're a socialist?

Pull the other one, Josh. If you're a socialist, I'm the President.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #90)

Fri May 31, 2013, 01:09 PM

167. panic buying and the ensueing profit

do you have the numbers showing that prices of tp have skyrocketed?

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #40)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:28 PM

165. This is one of the more deluded or misguided posts I've read in a long time. nt

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Response to TeamPooka (Reply #165)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:43 PM

166. Yeah, delusional...

...except I can walk into any store in the US and have at least five choices of TP, all plentiful,
none supplied by the government.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #13)

Thu May 16, 2013, 06:16 PM

70. Hmm...see, what you say doesn't really add up.

You say that toilet paper is 'actually plentiful.' But how do you prove that? Do your supply/demand estimates come from the government?

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #70)

Thu May 16, 2013, 10:10 PM

84. IDK all that, but most paper goods manufacturing is owned by the Koch brothers, isn't it?

At least that's the way the lists of boycotting Koch products read.

And not provable, but American ex-pats to Venezuela I've talked to - carry on about Charles Koch like he's the Second Coming. They work in the oil business there and I consider them idiots.

We know oil producers were screwing people out of heating oil here years ago. But Chavez sold it to the Americans cheaper, gaining some fans in so doing, including RFK, Jr.

It could happen, but doesn't seem logical that they are having shortages from foreign sources. To improve the standards of living of a country requires a manufacturing base.

Venezuela has oil to pay for building facilities, and likely has trees, cows, corn fields. They've got people to work, so why would they need to import milk, butter, cornmeal or toilet paper when they can make it there?

The theory that Americans are harming the economy of Venezuela doesn't add up here. IIRC, we are their largest client for their oil, so it's not like we aren't getting along that well. Only the media says we hate each other.



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Response to msanthrope (Reply #10)

Fri May 17, 2013, 06:12 AM

92. Step 1.

Say this on the tee vee, even if it is a lie.

Step 2. wash, rinse, repeat.......

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Response to dotymed (Reply #6)

Thu May 16, 2013, 08:13 AM

17. There are a few things in play here

First, you have the perception that that there is a shortage (real or imaginary is immaterial) which is causing panic buying patterns. People will buy more than they have a need which can quite easily move an imaginary shortage into a real shortage.

Second, government price controls. This has at least two impacts. If the allowable sale price is below the cost of production (say you can sell something at $2 but it costs you $2.25 to produce), this eliminates any incentive to make the product (creating a real shortage). Second, price can be a highly effective mechanism to control demand especially if there is a spot shortage of a product. People will buy a product up to a certain price, once beyond that price they will stop buying the product (or service) or find an alternative. Increasing prices also creates financial incentive for new producers to enter the market which increases the available supply of that product which in turn impacts the price of the product (unless there is collusion amongst the producers but that is a topic for another day).

Third, the Venezuelan government's nationalizing (or threatening to nationalize) industries (both foreign and domestically owned) has an impact. Nationalizing (or threat to) has a chilling effect on foreign investment (which, contrary to some folks here, is not all bad) in the means of production. Failing to have sufficient domestic capital to fuel expansion (in, say, the toilet paper industry), foreign investment provides the necessary funding to fuel the expansion.

Now these three issues are closely interconnected and feed off each other which can (and does) create an economic spiral that is difficult to overcome without overdoing it in one or more of these issues.

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Response to melm00se (Reply #17)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:49 PM

42. alternative

what did people do before the invention of toilet paper? there's gotta be something. Leaves?

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Response to treestar (Reply #42)

Thu May 16, 2013, 03:11 PM

59. pages from the Sears catalog

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Response to melm00se (Reply #59)

Fri May 17, 2013, 06:07 AM

89. ... but now that the catalog is online

... I bet Steve Jobs never envisioned this use for an iPad.

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Response to melm00se (Reply #59)

Fri May 17, 2013, 09:53 AM

102. Corn cobs.

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Response to melm00se (Reply #17)

Thu May 16, 2013, 03:55 PM

62. Interesting analysis, except that Venezuela's economy has been growing at 5+%...

...post-Bush Junta worldwide depression, and grew at a sizzling 10% for 5 straight years, pre-Bush Junta depression. Most of this growth is in the private sector and not including oil. (And Venezuela has had no trouble attracting oil investors, after Exxon Mobil quit the field in a snit over having to pay for social programs.)

My conclusion: These shortages in Venezuela are mainly caused by business HOARDERS. They've used that tactic before and I think they are using it now. I'm with the Venezuelan government on this. This is part of a concerted rightwing effort to destabilize the country.

A secondary reason is that the Venezuelan majority now has money to spend (high employment rate, good jobs, good wages/benefits, pensions for all, including street vendors and full-time mothers). As with the so-called energy "crisis" in Venezuela the problem is prosperity--higher demand for energy as the upwardly mobile poor class buys appliances they never could afford before, and are placing high demands on many product lines, including food and household items.

Oh my, the LIES that the Associated Pukes, the Economyst, Rotters and the Wall Street Urinal, and their ilk, tell about Venezuela!

In the recent Gallup Well-being poll, Venezuelans rated their own country FIFTH IN THE WORLD on their own sense of well-being and future prospects. 5th in the world! Our benighted corporate rulers are bent on killing that optimism, that upward mobility, that wealth-sharing, that prosperity for the many.

That is why we have Associated Pukes headlines about Venezuelan toilet paper.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #62)

Fri May 17, 2013, 09:39 AM

100. 5th in the world. But they having nothing to wipe their asses with (nt)

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #62)

Fri May 17, 2013, 12:25 PM

114. Thank you - I always

look forward to your posts. I appreciate them!

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #62)

Fri May 17, 2013, 12:38 PM

117. With rampant inflation, declining oil production and a skyrocketing murder rate.

Their inflation rate has been above 20% for six straight years, with a forecast of 30% for 2013.

Oil production has steadily fallen since 1997 - without an increase in oil prices their economy is headed for recession. If oil prices actually fall, they are royally screwed - oil accounts for 90% of foreign cash inflow and 50% of state revenue.

If the murder rate in America is indicative of a sick society, consider that Venezuela has the 5th highest murder rate in the world. They have 15,000 murders a year - America has 12,500 with one tenth the population

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Response to hack89 (Reply #117)

Mon May 20, 2013, 03:44 AM

143. The number for murder is probably higher.

Because they don't include police killings in that number (how many were innocent or not is of course debatable, but one of Venezuela's chavista ministers said police were responsible for 20% of crime).

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Response to hack89 (Reply #117)

Sat Jun 1, 2013, 12:18 PM

174. Cost per barrel plummeted in the Bush Junta-induced worldwide depression,

and what happened in Venezuela? They, along with the other countries with Leftist governments in South America climbed out of that Bushwhacking within a year! Within a year, they started their climb back to 5+% GDP! Why? Because, a) the Chavez government had put aside adequate cash reserves for the Bushwhacked year, 2009, and b) the government SPENT MONEY, "New Deal"-style, to stimulate the PRIVATE sector, to keep people employed, to keep DROPPING the poverty rate, to ensure food on the table and other life necessities, to maintain the educational system and all such progressive systems (which aim people at upward mobility), for infrastructure and other ECONOMY STIMULATING purposes.

As for inflation, it was FAR WORSE in the pre-Chavez years, peaking at 100% inflation! The Chavez/Maduro government significantly REDUCED inflation, and has kept it under 30% since then. They have also kept wages and pensions in pace with inflation, as the ONLY reasonable means for economic growth and development that does not serve only the 1% (such as we are experiencing). The 1%-er's are going to run out of consumers--in fact, that has already occurred here and in Europe--and it is never going to happen in Venezuela or Leftist South America. That is why their economies are growing while ours are stagnating! If you get rich by impoverishing people, you run out of consumers! Then you've got to figure out all sorts of other tricks--like speculating on people NOT being able to make their mortgage payments--in order to make digital money for a while before the whole "Wall Street"/bankster delusion comes crashing down, and has to be bailed out by making the poor POORER.

Invest in people! That is the best investment anybody can make, and when capital stops doing so, the government MUST step in for the common good.

That is what happened in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Bolivia and others, all showing economic growth higher--often much higher--than the "austerity"-inflicted countries, and, what is more, blessed with the OPTIMISM that is essential for continued prosperity and wealth-sharing, AND for continued problem-solving. These countries are on the rise, while ours is stagnating and Europe is disintegrating--all because of profiteering by the greedy 1% and LACK of appropriate action by governments controlled by the greedy 1% (i.e., failure of democracy).

EVERY country has problems of one kind or another. No government or society can, or has, solved them all. The measure of a good government is their record of solving problems--like inequity and exclusion (which the Chavez/Maduro government has a GREAT record on)--and their creation of OPTIMISM in their people that problems CAN be solved. Indeed, that is what democracy is all about. Everybody KNOWS that not every problem is solvable or at least not totally solvable. The important thing is that people and their governments are TRYING. They are not obliviously IGNORING poverty, homelessness, lack of nutrition, lack of access to higher education, lack of credit for small businesses, poor wages, unfair working conditions, lack of good jobs, lack of housing, no transportation up and down hills where shantytowns have been built, no medical care, and so on--as the greedy 1% in Venezuela, for instance, did throughout their rule.

And this is WHY Venezuelans rated their own country FIFTH IN THE WORLD on their sense of well-being and future prospects. They KNOW that they can solve problems. They KNOW that they can elect a government that solves problems, because their government has done so. They are OPTIMISTIC, whereas most of our people and the people in Europe have not been so depressed about their well-being and future prospects since, oh, 1929.

I can see why the 1%-er class--the uber-rich, the billionaires and their toady corporate 'news' consortium--HATES Venezuela, which pioneered this new wealth-sharing and empowerment of the people in Latin America. They and their trumpeters never cease to stomp on Venezuela and grossly exaggerate every problem that arises that the government hasn't solved yesterday. But it's a sorry spectacle to see their propaganda here at DU, a progressive forum.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #174)

Sat Jun 1, 2013, 12:43 PM

175. Yet they have food shortages and declining oil revenue

their prosperity begins and ends with oil revenues - and there is less of it every year. Any decrease in oil prices and they will have an economic disaster on their hands.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #62)

Fri May 31, 2013, 10:19 PM

171. First off: I'm for nationalizing things. Here, elsewhere. Example, our oil industry vs. Norway's.

I pick nationalization everytime, to do things in the best manner. Venezuela nationalized their oil industry, and it must have been a hell of a fight. Why can't do the same for these staples?

I suspect that would require land reform, which has always been the cause of the worst violence when the oligarches are faced with that. Who owns the forests, corn fields, dairy farms, etc. in that country?

If multinational firms were let in by Chavez or others, it was a mistake, but then, I'm not the president of anything. People, large and small, do get killed going up against oligarchs. I think Muir said there is no hunger like that for land. They will fight dirty.

Perhaps another generation will be required to get a more egalitarian society. Until then, Americans and others will keep buying their oil, providing some income, and the people may be able to overcome over time with education to make things work for their country.

I wish them good luck, with no interference from us. Opinion media are not boots on the ground, I'm hoping there will be peace there.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #6)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:26 AM

32. Toilet paper and paper products are the Koch brothers biggest selling products people!

 

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Response to fasttense (Reply #1)

Thu May 16, 2013, 09:47 PM

82. The Vzla. Govt. is the ONLY entity allowed to IMPORT Into Vzla. the dictator controls everything.

Vzla. Now imports CORN and RICE before they never did. This is classic of all dictatorships. Before they had more than enough to feed the entire nation, now they import food.

Stupid is as Stupid does.

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Response to Bo (Reply #82)

Fri May 17, 2013, 06:28 AM

93. Your post suggests that before

Chavez and his programs to feed and shelter the poor while making a more fair wealth distribution, that the people who could not afford CORN and RICE were able to purchase it.......

USA#1...GO, GO, GO, YEAAAA! capitalism, the BEST system in the universe....yeaaa!

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 06:58 AM

2. See also

Venezuelan Minister of Commerce Alejandro Fleming announced the toilet paper measure on Tuesday, the state-run AVN news agency reported.

>

"There is no deficiency in production, but an excessive demand generating purchases by a nervous population because of a media campaign that has been created to undermine the country," Fleming said. "We are going to saturate the market so that our people will calm down and understand that they should not let themselves be manipulated by the media that says there are shortages."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/15/world/americas/venezuela-tp-shortage/

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #2)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:01 AM

5. lol, excessive demand n/t

s

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #5)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:36 PM

38. "Excessive demand" = panic-driven hoarding

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #38)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:50 PM

43. DING DING DING!!

Ample evidence of this exists right here in the good old U.S. of A., in Hawai'i. There, where everything on supermarket shelves has to be shipped in from the West Coast, the tiniest whisper of "dock strike" causes three items to disappear from the shelves: toilet paper, rice, and believe it or not, Spam.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #43)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:23 PM

72. I've heard that spam is really popular in Hawai'i

I have no idea why though.

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #72)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:36 PM

74. It dates back to World War II

no fresh meat deliveries from the mainland.

It is even more popular on Guam, where it has the additional advantage of not needing refrigeration during the island's frequent power outages.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #74)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:40 PM

75. So people came to like it through familiarity?

I'm assuming it is no longer a lack of options thing. Interesting! I guess spam is not that bad. Just...odd.

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #75)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:47 PM

76. Actually, it's not

the classic East-meets-West creation is the musubi, a block of sticky rice topped with a slice of you-know-what, wrapped with nori seaweed! It is widely available at convenience stores and the like. Other versions exist using hot dogs, teriyaki chicken, etc., but the Spam musubi is king.

At least one pizza joint on O'ahu offers Spam as a topping!

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #76)

Fri May 17, 2013, 02:54 AM

86. I suddenly have an unexpected hankering for spam

A first.

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #72)

Fri May 17, 2013, 10:12 AM

103. It's good with pineapple?

Blech.

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Response to redwitch (Reply #103)

Fri May 17, 2013, 12:17 PM

111. I'll have you know, the "Hawaiian" pizza (ham and pineapple) is more popular in California

than it is in Hawai'i. Out there, most pizza comes from the Big Three chains, with Pizza Hut the clear leader , with fairly standard toppings (pepperoni, sausage, onions, maybe olives).

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #111)

Fri May 17, 2013, 01:12 PM

123. I'm from New Jersey.

And I think pineapple on pizza is a sacrilege.

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Response to redwitch (Reply #123)

Fri May 17, 2013, 04:42 PM

125. And you're right.

Although there is the Dole Plantation in central O'ahu, where 130 or so pineapple varieties are grown. I've thought that one of the tart varieties might make a far better pizza topping that the usual sweet ones.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #38)

Mon May 20, 2013, 03:01 AM

136. There was a month between the devaluation and wage increase.

Of course I'd buy more toilet paper in that time frame, as my ass isn't going to be doing too well when my income is nearly halved for a month. I would not consider this act "panic" so much rational.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #2)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:54 AM

16. The same media who has never had anything good to say about Hugo Chavez...eom

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #2)

Fri May 17, 2013, 06:04 AM

88. TP shortage in Venezuela = Bullet shortage in the U.S.?

Same mentality at work?

They can have my Charmin when they take it from my cold, dead, no-longer-squeezing, hands.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:00 AM

4. There's something

very oily going on here.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #4)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:26 AM

11. sulphudunn, dipsydoodle informed us of the culprits.

The corporate owned, MSM in Venezuela has taken it's marching orders from the elite. Chavez had to shut them down a few times because of their relentless propaganda meant to destabilize their government.
The elite do not like that their land monopolies were seized and given to the poor (they were reimbursed). They now have to pay proportional taxes and average Venezuelans are getting a "fair-shake" in their society.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #11)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:27 AM

33. So much for freedom of the press, eh?

When both sides say such inflammatory things, its hard to tell if anyone is telling the truth.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #11)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:41 AM

34. 'chavez had to shut them down'

please tell me you're not complaining about Eric Holder.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #34)

Fri May 17, 2013, 07:54 AM

95. I complain about Eric Holder every chance I get.

You are talking about apples-vs-turnips.

Both Venezuela and America have corporate owned, elite operated MSM.
The difference? In America the citizens are "informed" that America is #1 and most scandals that threaten (and do) undermine the lives of the majority, are good things. No attempt to overthrow our nation. It is propaganda meant to keep the ruling elites in power. They may occasionally attack an individual or a cause that is beneficial to the majority of our citizens, because such causes may threaten their ability to keep control.

In Venezuela however, the MSM is not able to (yet) help their corporate and elite cohorts to regain control over the population. They do however, manufacture "stories" about a govt. (popularly elected by the masses) that does not allow the wealthy to control them.
In fact, just the opposite. The Chavez revolution seized control over a very corrupt govt. that was installed by the oligarchs and (as in America) designed to suppress the will and rights of the majority.
Journalists (once referred to as "The Fourth Estate") have a lot of power and influence even when they "report" propaganda (in this case meant to help topple the government).
Both Venezuela and America have corporate owned, elite run MSM. One uses its power to keep the majority oppressed while the other uses its power to attempt to return to a govt. designed to oppress the majority.
When a powerful organization like that will say anything to return oppression to the majority, it should be shut down and IMO restructured to represent the majority it is supposed to inform.

IF America had a real Fourth Estate that accurately reported and informed the people of the abuses of power in America, they would be seen as a threat to an oppressive system and shut-down also. Since it is owned by oligarchs who profit from the ongoing oppression, it will not happen.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:14 AM

7. The have a toilet paper shortage?

Those godless Communists! Now we absolutely have to invade! In the name of humanity, send in the Marines at once!

(Be sure and have the big energy multinationals on twenty-four hour alert. They'll want to get their people there the second those oil fields are no longer nationalized.)

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:16 AM

9. But you've failed to explain how this is Obama's fault. nt

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:28 AM

12. I have a couple of graduate diplomas they could have...


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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:39 AM

14. Are you fucking kidding me?

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:40 AM

15. And the campaign to test the post Chavez government continues.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #15)

Thu May 16, 2013, 10:38 AM

28. Same old script, from Allende to Aristide

Venezuela has a monthly consumption of 125 million rolls but now suddenly registers a mysterious "demand", out of nowhere, for an additional 40 million after the opposition media starts hyping a toilet paper shortage and everyone rushes out to "stock up" like the person in the picture in the Guardian article, and I'm sure that person wasn't the worst. Imagine what people with SUVs were carting off. It's reminiscent of the artificial bottled water and other shortages in Silicon Valley for the hyped up Y2K panic.

Like you said, the campaign continues.

This was written in response to President Nixon's “feeling” that the socialist government of President Salvador Allende in Chile “won’t last long.”

Inside Chile
March 9, 1972
Nina Serrano, Haskell Wexler, Paul Jacobs, Saul Landau, and Elizabeth Farnsworth


In fact, Chile’s food shortages and economic difficulties have been exploited by President Allende’s opposition and misunderstood by the US press. In its first year of power, the Allende government has stimulated economic growth and begun to redistribute income through higher wages for workers, which in turn created a significant rise in the demand for consumer goods (including food) and services.

Moreover, Allende inherited Chile’s food shortages, caused by an inefficient and unequitable agricultural system. Shortages of such items as meat, milk, and coffee became marked during the Christian Democratic Administration of Eduardo Frei (1964-70). By early 1970, months before Allende’s victory, Chilean markets sold meat only a few days of each month, and the milk supply was sporadic. After Allende’s inauguration (November, 1970), new obstacles were thrown in the way of food production: 1) indiscriminate slaughtering of herds and refusal to plant by landowners whose properties faced expropriation; 2) the earthquake and resulting dam age in July, 1971; and 3) the heavy snows, which killed crops and poultry.

The upper class (which these 5,000 women represented) never experienced hunger pangs, as Chile’s poor have for decades. Only when meat became difficult to obtain under Allende did these privileged women march in the streets with empty pots which had previously been used only by their servants.

...

The recent disruptions demonstrate the right’s determination to overthrow Allende’s government and stop programs designed for the welfare of the Chilean poor. Herbert Klein’s statement may express US policy rather than his “feeling.” As individuals who believe the US government should keep its hands off Chile’s internal political affairs, we are alarmed and angered by Klein’s statement, and we reaffirm our support for the Popular Unity government as it struggles to meet the needs of the Chilean people.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1972/mar/09/inside-chile/?pagination=false

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Response to Catherina (Reply #28)

Thu May 16, 2013, 10:50 AM

29. yep, it always starts with limiting TP production and then the shit really hits the fan

and everywhere else

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 08:54 AM

18. oil for tp program will be required n/t

s

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 09:03 AM

19. Oh right, Maduro: "My political opponents are to blame!"

Socialism does *NOT* work.
Some socialist policies are needed. But pure socialism has always failed.

To blame political opponents for a toilet paper shortage shows just how desperate Maduro is.

Don't forget, this nutcase *STILL* says Chavez was "poisoned."

So it looks like Maduro and his corrupt cronies have nothing to go on!

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Response to Archae (Reply #19)

Thu May 16, 2013, 09:11 AM

21. its the price controls they've imposed

They just announced a 20% increase in the price of beef, chicken, and milk in order to stimulate production but most products still are heavily regulated. Also, their 30% inflation rate combined with the price controls makes it unprofitable for business to operate. Furthermore, the industries that were nationalized are woefully inefficient. The head of Polar, the largest food producer in the nation, challenged Maduro to sell back industries the government nationalized in order to become more efficient.

True believers though will continue to try and favor the same failed economic policies.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #21)

Thu May 16, 2013, 09:50 AM

23. Agreed.

Pure unrestrained capitalism doesn't work either, there is just too many chances for making lots of money with corruption.

That's why regulated capitalism works best, supply and demand, with regulations.
(Which can be thought of as "socialistic, in a way.)

For Maduro to blame his opponents for this problem shows just how desperate he is.
I mean, even Chavez never had a shortage of toilet paper!

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Response to Archae (Reply #23)

Thu May 16, 2013, 10:32 AM

27. its quite embarrasing since Venezuela has been a fairly developed country for decades

This is just like Cuba. Yeah, China is a good example of ruthless capitalism even though their government is communist. No worker safeguards or rights, no environmental protections.

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Response to Archae (Reply #23)

Mon May 20, 2013, 03:27 AM

141. Maduro recently said that people will have to pay for their free houses.

He's no socialist.

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Response to Archae (Reply #19)

Thu May 16, 2013, 09:57 AM

24. Because leaders have never been assassinated, let alone by poison.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #24)

Thu May 16, 2013, 10:05 AM

25. Oh for Christ's sake...

People get cancer.

My Dad died of pancreatic cancer, was he "assassinated" by someone?
And Dad never was a smoker.

Hugo Chavez unfortunately came down with cancer, and he died of it.
No "assassination" tinfoil-hat "conspiracy" needed.

Maduro is a nutcase, I have a hunch his own people will throw him out of office for sheer incompetence, at best.

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Response to Archae (Reply #25)

Thu May 16, 2013, 08:11 PM

77. I predicted he wouldn't serve out his term. This election was too close. I agree that pure.....

socialism is as reckless as runaway capitalism, and who the hell wants to invest in a country where the government could arbitrarily seize your family business for the "national interest"? Moises Naim is a regular guest on NPR, and I find he's pretty evenhanded when it comes to reporting, and I found this article fascinating.

January 8, 2013, 3:12 PM
by Moises Naim, Scholar, The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

"Last month, Jorge Botti, the head of Fedecámaras, Venezuela's business federation, explained that unless the government supplies more dollars to pay for imports, shortages -- from food to medicine -- would be inevitable. "What we will give Fedecámaras is not more dollars but more headaches," replied acting president Nicolas Maduro, the heir apparent to the Chavista regime (and Hugo Chávez's vice president).

Maduro is correct. Crushing headaches will soon be inevitable across the country, including within the private sector but especially among the poor. President Chávez has bequeathed the nation an economic crisis of historic proportions.

The crisis includes a fiscal deficit approaching 20 percent of the economy (in the cliff-panicking United States it is 7 percent), a black market where a U.S. dollar costs four times more than the government-determined exchange rate, one of the world's highest inflation rates, a swollen number of public sector jobs, debt 10 times larger than it was in 2003, a fragile banking system and the free fall of the state-controlled oil industry, the country's main source of revenue."

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/01/03/venezuela-post-chavez/chavez-will-leave-behind-an-economic-crisis


In a country where the leader has unprecedented unilateral powers, I find the deteriorating conditions in Venezuela quite shocking. Unlike here, Congressional or Parliamentary interference is fairly nonexistent, and yet the president's leftist critics revere Chavez, and abhor Pres. Obama.

Another Socialist leader, Francois Hollande, finds himself in pretty much the same predicament, and he was only elected a year ago. I predict that once Venezuelans stop blaming the US for everything from deliberately infecting Chavez with cancer to the shortage of toilet paper, they will turn their sights to their own leadership, and Maduro will be forced out.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #77)

Fri May 17, 2013, 04:21 AM

87. It still doesn't mean he was "poisoned."

Chavez unfortunately got cancer.

So did my Dad.

This Chavez was poisoned with cancer is total shit.

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Response to Archae (Reply #87)

Fri May 17, 2013, 12:24 PM

113. Agreed. nt

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #77)

Fri May 17, 2013, 08:28 AM

96. Quoting the head of the Venezuelan business federation

is a great source to quote.

Yes, Venezuela should return to its previous status quo and let the oligarchs, backed by the American corporate govt., regain control. Return the peasants to hunger and homelessness and allow the wealthy to concentrate and immensely increase their wealth on the backs of the peasants. Just like America and just like pre-Chavez Venezuela.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #77)

Fri May 17, 2013, 10:32 AM

107. Evenhanded? I guess that

depends on what you mean by evenhanded. I don't think he's an unbiased source - he was part of the old guard, wasn't he? Minister of Trade or something, under Pérez.

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Response to Archae (Reply #19)

Thu May 16, 2013, 03:35 PM

61. It does work,

and it works well. Of course, it doesn't work well for right wing fucks who are determined to suck every last dollar out of a resource rich country, right wing fucks who control the corporate media and deliberately create shortages through artificial demand, then bemoan said shortages via their horribly slanted "news" stories, message boards and social media everywhere.

Yeah, those fucks HATE socialism. So you're halfway right.

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #61)

Thu May 16, 2013, 04:31 PM

63. Pure socialism works?

Where?

Even Norway and Sweden aren't pure socialistic.

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Response to Archae (Reply #63)

Fri May 17, 2013, 09:06 AM

98. Hmmm..Venezuela holds elections

which are heavily monitored, and fair (especially compared to America) their voter turn-out is tremendous since they discovered that a politician(Chavez, now Maduro) can and has actually helped the majority immensely. If we could get that kind of turn-out, and politicians from more than corporate owned America, also really fair elections, we might stand a chance (MSM must be exposed to the masses for what they really are) we could elect a Socialistic- Democracy too and stand a real chance of wealth redistribution and help for the majority who need it (living wages, socialized health care, etc.).

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOCIALISM AND DEMOCRATIC-SOCIALISM...ASK BERNIE SANDERS.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #98)

Fri May 17, 2013, 10:26 AM

106. Except as we can see, Venezuela is not working.

They are even running out of toilet paper.

As to your last sentence, that is true.
Democratic socialism is much like the socialism like we have here in the US, restrained capitalism.

*PURE* socialism does not work.
Just like the old Soviet Union didn't.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 09:08 AM

20. One of these days the diehard Chavez defenders will...

show us where a communist or radical socialist economy has ever worked anywhere in history on this planet.

Elements of socialism are necessary and work perfectly well when asshole (usually conservative, but not always) politicians don't screw them up, but when you take it too far you run up against the will and wants of the people you intended to help.

The socialist ideal becomes merely another ego and power trip, no better than mercantilism.

Really now, a whole country running out of toilet paper? And now they crow about importing 50 million rolls to solve what they say is a phony shortage? And people defend these assholes because they claim to work for the poor? The poor who can't wipe their asses thanks to them?

Oh, wait, it was the oligarchs waiting in the wings causing all this just to make them look bad...


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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #20)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:14 PM

35. "communist or radical socialist"

Venezuela is about as "radical socialist" as Norway or Sweden.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #35)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:46 PM

41. Who also nationalized their major industries...

declared class warfare, and destroyed foreign trade as their answer to longstanding social and economic problems originating with Spanish colonial policy...

C'mon... Chavez was using oil money to further the dream of the Castro revolution leading Latin America to a Marxist paradise. It didn't get very far-- just enough to fuck up the place.





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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #41)

Thu May 16, 2013, 04:33 PM

64. Now you'll be in trouble...

From the far-left "Chavez and Maduro can do nothing wrong!" phanbois.

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Response to Archae (Reply #64)

Thu May 16, 2013, 04:35 PM

65. Wtf is this 'phanbois' you keep yammering on about? nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #65)

Thu May 16, 2013, 04:58 PM

66. The people who say Chavez and now Maduro can do no wrong.

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Response to Archae (Reply #66)

Thu May 16, 2013, 05:00 PM

67. I've never seen anyone say anything like that. You have quite an imagination, congrats. nt.

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Response to Archae (Reply #66)

Thu May 16, 2013, 07:34 PM

73. I don't think people believe Maduro can do no wrong

They just don't want Venezuela handed directly into the hands of the previous fucks. The guy they ran last election was the Latin Mitt Romney.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #65)

Fri May 17, 2013, 10:21 AM

105. They live in his pants,

along with his theories, ready to pull out the first time he hears the word "dick-tater".

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #41)

Fri May 17, 2013, 09:42 AM

101. To many DUers, nationalizing major industries, declaring class warfare and destroying foreign trade

are features, not bugs.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #101)

Sat May 18, 2013, 12:13 AM

131. But, how many of them have to live there? n/t

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #131)

Mon May 20, 2013, 03:09 AM

138. I know of at least one DUer who lives in an elite community in Latin America.

Didn't know that most people in Latin America washed their clothes by hand, used to have a currier to go to the store, etc.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #138)

Mon May 20, 2013, 10:17 AM

144. Oh do tell us more about this "elite community" oh teller of tales

Please do.

I was alerted to your defamatory postS, in several threadS, by a DUer who's actually visited my home. You've been running all over the place with your false claims because you're incapable of discussing facts so instead you resort to trying to somehow discredit me. Except that it only further discredits you.

So go ahead. "Please proceed Governor". Let's see your *proof* that I live in an "elite community" and do explain why you're so intent to mock the fact that I wash my clothes by hand. Do explain why you took information from an old thread where I shared how simply I live to deliberately twist things.

It's humorous how you twist the mention I made that 2 kids of a former President, convicted for genocide, happen to live a few blocks away. In a small town that's 10 blocks long, everyone lives a few blocks away. Why I even posted a map to help people see how dishonest you're being but, as usual, you persist in ignoring any factual items that get in the way of your little games. Just more proof of how unqualified you are to talk about life in Latin America.

Do explain why you take my statement that I manage just fine without a car and that the rare times I needed to go to the capital, I hired a car which, by the way, is no more than a fucking taxi. Yes, please do explain why you twist that into something totally dishonest.

This is just another of the little tricks in your repertoire. And you wonder why many people don't take you seriously? Please lol.

It's a shame you can't control yourself and I have to waste time addressing this dishonesty. You take advantage of being on ignore to make dishonest attacks. Shame on you.

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Response to Catherina (Reply #144)

Mon May 20, 2013, 07:37 PM

145. Hit a nerve I see.

People can read your posts and determine whether or not what I said was factual. I stand by my statements as they are factual observations of things that have been said.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #145)

Tue May 21, 2013, 10:56 AM

156. Well, I read the links and it doesn't look good for you so far. Looks like slander to me, unless you

Have some other info to support your claims?

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #41)

Mon May 20, 2013, 03:33 AM

142. Actually, they were nationalized before Chavez came along.

That's the most ironic bit about this.

All of the post 90s neoliberal policies have not been reversed by Chavez, they've been embraced, even. Import substitution was one way for Latin America to prevent itself from cash cropping and being banana republics. Now what does Venezuela produce? Oil. Who is Venezuela's biggest business partner? The United States.

They got rid of the currency controls, but implemented a dual exchange system so that import industries could thrive.

(Note: by they I mean the government, once the Chavistas came to power they should've reversed these neoliberal policies simply because by not doing so is effectively embracing those policies.)

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 09:49 AM

22. Darn that George W. Bush and his army of toilet paper gremlins!

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 10:09 AM

26. Their biggest problem is declining oil production

During his presidency, Chavez diverted much of that potential wealth to Venezuelan consumers in the form of cheap gasoline (18 cents per gallon or less). He propped up the Castro regime in Cuba, and he offered Venezuelan oil on highly preferential terms to 18 Caribbean and Latin American countries through an energy alliance he called PetroCaribe.

Oil production in Venezuela declined sharply under the Chavez administration, however, largely due to inadequate investment in the energy infrastructure, inefficiencies in oil industry management, and the replacement of skilled oil technicians and managers with political loyalists.

The drop in oil production — more than 7 percent just in the first quarter of 2013 — is severe enough to call into question whether the Chavista oil welfare programs can be sustained. For the Caribbean and Latin American countries that have been benefiting from the PetroCaribe program, it is a time of great anxiety.

"In 1997, PDVSA was producing 3.5 million barrels a day," notes Piñon, now an energy analyst at the University of Texas at Austin. "Today they are about 2.8 million barrels a day. It shows you what a bad job the Venezuelan government has done in managing their national oil company."


http://www.npr.org/2013/04/11/176843567/venezuela-s-next-leader-faces-tough-choice-on-oil-program

They are screwed if oil prices remain steady. They are really screwed if oil prices go down.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #26)

Tue May 21, 2013, 08:14 PM

161. "Propped up Cuba"? Does that

mean trading oil for health care? I wish the US could prop them up and get 'free' eye surgeries and neighborhood doctors.

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Response to roody (Reply #161)

Tue May 21, 2013, 08:34 PM

162. All those things will disapear soon

if they don't find a way to fix their economy - especially their oil industry.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 10:52 AM

30. Despite holding power for well over a decade, the Chavistas are not

responsible for any bad things that happen under their government.

Of course, they get credit for all the good stuff.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 11:25 AM

31. the most basic of necessities? How elite of them

Food, water, shelter and something to wipe your ass with?

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:22 PM

36. What a shock, a government the US hates having shortages. Amazing.

What is clearly a destabilization tactic, given ample media amplification, produces scoffing among the right-wingers, waiting with baited breath to see another leftist administration go up in flames.

That's the way it works, if things go as planned.

Was expecting to see this crap article slimed into view by one of the DU hitchhikers from the right. What a shame.

Does anyone recall the events orchestrated by Nixon's CIA in Chile, after Republican President Richard M Nixon told his CIA head, Richard Helms, that he wanted to "make the economy scream?" Does anyone recall what happened when they went about achieving that goal?

It would make so much sense if people took a tiny bit of time to research, then it wouldn't be possible to get all flipped out about a misunderstanding of events when they see them happening AGAIN.

Nixon/CIA's manipulation of Chile's economy as it pertained to the ordinary citizens, and the food supply:

~snip~
Why was it so vital to the USA that the Government of Salvador Allende NOT continue to function? So important that the US had to resort to bribing the Truckers Union, threatening legislators, laundering secret money and encouraging Chilean military officers to rebel? By 1970, the US had already engaged in numerous political, economic and military interventions in Latin America. Much has been written about the overthrow of Árbenz in Guatemala, the serial occupations of Haiti, the hundreds of assassination attempts against Fidel Castro in Cuba and the military occupation of Dominican Republic. Nevertheless, Chile in the early 1970s represented a totally new type of threat, a socialist government, which had come to power peacefully through a democratic election. The danger of a good example—should the pacific, intellectual, humanistic and avowedly socialist Salvador Allende succeed in empowering the working people of Chile in transforming their society and establishing a socio-economic model independent of the US power—was too much of a risk to leave to chance.

Therefore, the United States embarked upon a crusade of destabilization (a recurring theme in the United States’ intervention in Chile and in Latin America) that would topple Allende’s regime and his proposed “Chilean road to Socialism.” Much like the case of Guatemala, when the US Government allied with the United Fruit Company in bringing down the democratic government of Jacobo Árbenz, the Nixon administration at the highest level collaborated with U.S. based multinational corporations such as International Telephone and Telegraph (ITT) company and Anaconda Mining Company to topple Allende.

~snip~
Chief among these efforts figured the financial incentives provided to the Truckers Union to halt distribution of basic foods and household products. Chile’s very geography requires smooth transportation of produce; sandwiched between the Andes and the Pacific Ocean, it is a long, narrow country measuring over 6,000 kilometres in length and barely 90 kilometres in breadth in some parts. Capital-centric like so many Latin countries, Santiago has always been the hub and Valparaiso constitutes the chief port for importation and subsequent distribution of goods. In the early 1970s, right-wing groups organized the closing of stores and the hoarding of goods. By the final months of the Allende Government, working class families survived thanks to monthly ration cards and long lines formed at central distribution centres. The relatively small investment by the US Government in the truckers union, to persuade them to park their vehicles and block highways between major metropolitan areas, was sufficient to wreak havoc in local stocks of basic supplies, access to markets and levels of household food security in urban areas. US President Nixon notoriously instructed the CIA to, “make the economy scream” in Chile.

U.S. ambassador to Chile in the early 70s, Edward Korry emphasised, “Once Allende comes to power, we shall do all within our power to condemn Chile and the Chileans to utmost deprivation and .” CIA analysts predicted that to engineer a coup in Chile there must be “dire economic conditions throwing the country into chaos,” while also finding a military leader that was supported by most of the armed forces. By cutting all foreign aid, funding massive disinformation campaigns through right wing newspapers, and paralysing the Chilean economy through a countrywide truckers strike subsidised by the CIA, the United States Government created the conditions and general environment for a coup. Although Allende managed to retain popular acceptance for the most part of his time in power (1970-1973) the crashing economy orchestrated by the United States set up the coup in September of 1973.

More:
http://stnfrdstatic.com/2012/01/26/the-danger-of-a-good-example-us-involvement-in-911-1973/

~~~~~

~snip~
Despite failing to prevent Allende's election to the presidency, The CIA nor the United States government stopped working against Allende. Henry Kissinger was the architect of the idea of an economic blockade of Chile. As Chile depended largely on the US dollar and US materials for its industries, The United States was able to cut loans, foreign aid, financing and materials, plunging Chile into an economic crisis. President Nixon's order to “make the economy scream” was becoming a reality. In August of 1972, a series of strikes began in Chile. At the head of these actions were the truck drivers. Chile had little in the way of a railway system so the vast majority of goods had to be moved by truck. The stop work action crippled the Chilean economy, stopping the delivery of food and sowing discontent amongst the population. According to a CIA intelligence bulletin, the Chilean Department of Investigation had received requests to investigate foreigners living in Chile who were manipulating the strikes. It has since been discovered that the CIA were manipulating the strikes as part of the Track II plan to cripple Chile's economy. The PDC was a strong supporter of the strikes and had been receiving funds from the CIA since Track I was put in place. These funds were passed onto the strikers, prolonging the strikes and bringing the Chilean economy to a halt. Striking truck drivers interviewed by Time Magazine admitted that money for food came from the CIA. As a result of the strike, Allende was forced to use the military to bring an end to the strikes, reopen roads and stores who's owners had joined the truckers. This hardline approach was not received well and Allende popularity fell as a result. It didn't help that the strikes had affected the planting of crops, causing a decrease of 16 percent in harvest forcing Chile to import more food, adding to the already mounting debt the country had. While the CIA continued to strangle the Chilean economy, the US military continued to provide arms and armament to the Chilean military.

Despite a promise from US Ambassador Korry to Allende's predecessor Eduardo Frei in 1970 that “not a nut or bolt would be allowed to reach Chile under Allende,” the US continued to provide assistance to the Chilean military in the form of hardware and training. This has been interpreted as encouragement for the Chilean military to intervene in the government. This interpretation is strengthened by the actions of the Nixon administration in March of 1970. The Chilean military presented a shopping list of weapons and vehicles to the US valued at seven million dollars. This list included recoilless rifles, helicopters, artillery pieces and C-130 Hercules aircraft. Kissinger advised Nixon to offer the requested items to the military on credit as a refusal to supply the weapons could “cause resentment in the Chilean armed forces and sever our tenuous relations with them while there is still a possibility they might act against Allende.” It is clear that the Nixon administration was planning to use the military against Allende. In direct violation of their own policy of strangling Chile's economy, the US increased assistance to the Chilean military from 3,221 million dollars in 1970 to 13,540 million dollars in 1972. Assistance from the US government to the Chilean military was not only in the form of money but in training as well. Joint naval manoeuvres were held annually with the United States Navy and the training of Chilean personnel in the Panama Canal Zone. Figures garnered from the Church report into the CIA's covert operations state that the number of Chilean
personnel trained in Panama increased in each consecutive year of Allende's term. It is certain that the cooperation between the US and the Chilean military allowed the CIA to gather intelligence on possible coup plotting as well as approach Chilean officers about the possibility of organising a coup.

More:
http://historum.com/blogs/son+of+cathal/396-united-states-responsible-1973-coup-chile.html

There's an enormous fund of references you can draw from, describing the fact that the truck strike kept the food from getting to the stores, and other strikes resulted in imported food supplies, and other regularly used products delivered by ship, merely sitting in the water, waiting helplessly until the dock workers would decide to get back to work and unload their merchandise. Even products like cigarettes, and booze became scarce, just as a kicker, to drive some Chileans wild, until there was horrendous discomfort felt by a large part of the population.

It's all right there, within your reach, and should be noted by the same people who won't take the time to realize this has ALL HAPPENED BEFORE, and the same idiotic media trumpeted it loudly, playing to the idiot gallery, expecting them to simply REACT rather than to think about it. For those with short attention spans, specifically.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #36)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:32 PM

37. The shortage of toilet paper is a crap article and should be wiped out

As you know the US controls the toilet paper market. Latin American nations obviously are incapable of producing their own supply (well, at least one, or two make that). All products everywhere are managed by the US and the US decides where and who they go to.

Shortages of milk, chicken, beef, corn flour, and other food items is one thing but no toilet paper and thats sure to raise a stink.

viva la revolucion!!!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #36)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:51 PM

44. Are the Chavistas responsible for any bad things that happen under

their rule, or is every single unfortunate development a result of nefarious conspiracy?

It's pretty clear that if you have rigid price controls on goods, you're going to have shortages. Basic economics, not some Satanic conspiracy on the part of the toilet paper cartel.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #36)

Tue May 21, 2013, 03:45 PM

160. +1

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:42 PM

39. I don't understand why some DUers loathe Venezuela so much.

It seems almost pathological.

There is some discussion of the positive and negative attributes of different economic models, but mostly it is glee that there are problems there. It's like a vestigial anti-communism left over from the Cold War. There was always a strong strain of that in the Democratic Party.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #39)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:52 PM

45. I don't understand why some DUers venerate the Venezuela Govt so much.

Maybe because I grew up living under an "authoritarian" Government, I'm not inclined to go along with intrusions into civil liberties and ham-handed attempts to regulate the economy.

"The enemy of my enemy" doesn't need to be my friend.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #45)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:55 PM

47. you know things are shitty when there is no toilet paper n/t

s

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #39)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:54 PM

46. Well, not so much glee as a reaction to the cult of Chavez

and the constant propaganda that the Chavistas' policies are perfection, that they cannot fail but only be failed, etc.

People are claiming that toilet paper shortages MUST be due to some Satanic conspiracy, because rigid price controls NEVER lead to shortages.

Discussion of Venezuela's government shouldn't be like debating the merits of guns with Wayne LaPierre.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #39)

Thu May 16, 2013, 01:04 PM

49. It's not just Venezuela they loathe.

It seems to be loathing for any gov't that goes against right-wing policies and western power influence. They don't hide it very well, either.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #49)

Thu May 16, 2013, 01:17 PM

50. Yes ma'am, their positions are very constant

and their talking points are quick repetitions of whatever the Heritage Foundation or the AEI are pushing at the time. It's pretty funny to watch them try to repackage them too because you can perfume a turd all you want, it's still the same turd.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #49)

Thu May 16, 2013, 01:20 PM

51. "hide it"? they brag about it.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #39)

Thu May 16, 2013, 01:27 PM

53. I love Venezuela. Its a beautiful country with wonderful people. Too bad the government

is so corrupt and inept.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #53)

Fri May 17, 2013, 11:47 AM

109. Venezuela was once a wonderful, wonderful place. nt

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #109)

Fri May 17, 2013, 12:22 PM

112. Back in the good old days. When they just killed uppity poor people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracazo

The Caracazo or sacudón is the name given to the wave of protests, riots and looting and ensuing massacre that occurred on 27 February 1989 in the Venezuelan capital Caracas and surrounding towns. The clashes resulted in a death toll of hundreds of people with some reports of 3,000 dead mostly at the hands of security forces. The riots and protests were mainly against free market reform and increases in gasoline prices.

The word Caracazo is the name of the city plus the suffix -azo, which implies a blow and/or magnitude. It could therefore be translated as something like "the Caracas smash" or "the big one in Caracas". The name was inspired by the Bogotazo, a massive riot in neighboring Colombia in 1948 that played a pivotal role in that country's history. Sacudón is from sacudir "to shake", and therefore means something along the lines of "the day that shook the country" (see Spanish nouns: Other suffixes.)

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #112)

Fri May 17, 2013, 12:27 PM

115. Yeah...at least now everyone gets killed.

More democratic that way.

Leave it to a Chavez lickspittle to drag out their cache of weblinks to refute the slightest remark.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #115)

Fri May 17, 2013, 12:55 PM

119. Yep, now its just 30-100 per weekend in Caracas and 20,000 + murders per year

including more than 20% by police forces as stated by the Ven. Information Minister.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #119)

Fri May 17, 2013, 12:58 PM

120. It's all those CIA hitmen sent by "TPTB" to destabilize Venezuela

Because we all know that no crime exists or has ever existed in Latin America.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #120)

Fri May 17, 2013, 04:47 PM

126. now the chavistas are trying to blame Capriles and former Colombian president Uribe

for the TP shortage by trying to halt trade. Interestingly trade grew 30% the last quarter of 2012 and Chavez himself suspended trade with Colombia in 2010 and 2005.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #126)

Fri May 17, 2013, 04:57 PM

127. The only thing more fragile than a box of puppies is the Venezuelan economy, apparently

the smallest little nudge by "TPTB" (what people say when they want to impugn the USA without implicating the man running it)
can drive the entire Venezuelan economy into a tailspin from which it cannot recover.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #39)

Thu May 16, 2013, 10:08 PM

83. Television.

Too much television.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #39)

Fri May 17, 2013, 12:28 PM

116. As with many issues on DU...

You have two groups with very different inflexible points of view. My guess is that most of DU falls in between the all-good or all-bad groups but fail to speak up to much because discussing it with either side gets frustrating. That's just my guess.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #39)

Mon May 20, 2013, 03:22 AM

139. Most of the informed posters post in Latin America.

I disagree with some of the more knee jerk posts about Chavez (calling him a dictator, etc, etc), but those are a few posters. By and large I see more adulation for Chavismo on DU than criticism. This is why I post in the Latin American forum because I am informed and I am knowledgeable about Latin America and it's not worth it to argue with DU at large over stuff they clearly know nothing about.

I am a socialist. Chavismo is not socialist in any reasonable definition of the word. It resembles feudalism to a great extent and its aspirations toward socialism led it to be less redistributive and less poverty reductive than Chile and Brazil (social democracies) while making a whole new class of Venezuelans, the boligarchs, which in my mind is no different from neoliberalism.

There is a great tradition of socialists being critical of other "socialists." We saw this to a great extent during the Soviet era (with socialists like Emma Goldman). If we cannot be critical of those who call themselves socialists then we are lost. This entire discussion forum is based on criticizing the US administration, and rightly so. But we only care about criticism, it seems, when it's some other states abroad who pretend to be socialist.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 12:59 PM

48. The stalinians, they break everything they touch. Nt.

 

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 01:26 PM

52. I've never been to Venezuela so I'm an expert about the country

whoops we're out of toilet paper here --

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 02:35 PM

54. Unnecessary wasteful item.

We have washable diapers. Why not washable toilet cloth?
Disposable toilet paper should be a relic of a society that cared little about the environment, not something we still use.

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Response to socialsecurityisAAA (Reply #54)

Thu May 16, 2013, 03:03 PM

55. Hope you are joking.

Washable diapers are rarely used nowadays. Why do you think Pampers are so popular?

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #55)

Thu May 16, 2013, 03:31 PM

60. Not remotely.

Capitalists only consider something useful if it needs to be bought regularly. Most people realize the capitalist consumption centric model is responsible for the economic mess we are in.
Reusable durable long lasting goods are the solution.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 03:07 PM

56. Price controls tend to result in shortages...

Not complicated.

Some Venezuelan bureaucrat does not know better than a free market how much TP is desired by the public or what its value is.

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Response to Imajika (Reply #56)

Thu May 16, 2013, 03:10 PM

58. Just like it was in the old Soviet Union...

People were in line for hours, just to get what they needed like groceries, meanwhile fancy ski equipment was on display in stores.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 03:08 PM

57. Looks like the "Maduro can do no wrong!" phanbois are out in force.

Nothing is Maduro's fault.

It's all the fault of the right-wingers in the US, no matter how stupid this tinfoil-hat conspiracy is.

As I said, pure socialism is a failure.

And if the Maduro phanbois are SOOOOO enamored of how great socialism is, fine, Go to Venezuela.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 05:11 PM

68. you'd think with all those oil dollars coming in they'd be able to provide food and TP for

Venezuelans.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 05:56 PM

69. I guess Venezuelans are just shit out of luck

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 06:52 PM

71. Ironically, Maduro is an asswipe.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 08:12 PM

78. Looks like the "Make the economy scream" people are back in the saddle in DC again.

Yes, you know who you are.


Response to LBN post: "Now Venezuela is running out of toilet paper"

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Response to leveymg (Reply #78)

Thu May 16, 2013, 08:37 PM

80. "Back"? When did they ever really leave?

We're screaming right here bro!

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 08:28 PM

79. It's Obama's Fault!!!!!

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2013, 08:40 PM

81. they could really learn from the USA ...

... and provide more public swimming pools, to ease the toilet paper shortage.

perhaps the Chavez-bashing Capitalist Fanboys - who've all been thrown into a collective snit by Hugo having the nerve to go die of cancer & thus, preemptively remove their favorite message-board scapegoat from the international scene - will find some solace, in Venezuela publicly admitting the validity of certain US innovations.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022854895

quote/.... E. coli, which indicates the presence of fecal matter, was detected in 58 per cent of samples taken from pool filters by the U.S. Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, according to data released Thursday ..../unquote

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Response to marasinghe (Reply #81)

Fri May 17, 2013, 11:48 AM

110. Said the poster with access to plenty of asswipe. nt

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2013, 02:43 AM

85. I'll just leave this here

Ammunition shortage hits Minn. police departments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=485622

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2013, 06:12 AM

91. 90 replies for a TP shortage

in Venezuela.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #91)

Fri May 17, 2013, 07:17 AM

94. Many are STILL wedded to the Cold War notion that Socialism=Communism...

...and Communism is bad, m'kay?

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #94)

Fri May 17, 2013, 01:01 PM

121. Not me. I'm wedded to the notion that authoritarian Govts are bad...

...whether on the right or left.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2013, 09:35 AM

99. I blame the US. As if infecting Chavez with cancer was not enough,

now they are taking away the Venezuelans' toilet paper. Evil, evil, evil.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2013, 10:17 AM

104. ebay Venezuela sellers start your onsale cheap toilet paper engines!

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2013, 12:51 PM

118. TPTB: Toilet Paper Taking Bourgeoisie. They're behind everything

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2013, 01:02 PM

122. I would have thought this discussion would have completely unrolled by now

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2013, 05:12 PM

128. Why the sudden surge in demand?

Curious minds would want to know before making lame hygiene-imperialist jokes...

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #128)

Fri May 17, 2013, 07:57 PM

129. Venezuelan food?

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #128)

Mon May 20, 2013, 03:06 AM

137. They devalued the currency by nearly 40%.

Inflation is up 30%.

Wages dropped for a month before they were brought back up to inflation / devaluation level.

People bought two packs of toilet paper instead of one because they knew the price would double for that month in real terms.

The opposition candidate condemned the devaluation because it wasn't immediately followed by a wage increase. The government twiddled its fingers until after the elections to get it done (the devaluation was basically allowing them to take out a line of credit to spend on the campaign).

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2013, 11:02 PM

130. Use corporate newspapers

Moisten first - problem solved.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat May 18, 2013, 07:26 AM

132. See the link below for one of the reasons.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=485977

And here is a well documented historical example of the economic war against another Latin American country and leftist government that US hated with passion:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110817411

I am not even going to bother posting anything about decades old economic boycott of Cuba.



P.S. The amount of ignorance and hatered displayed by so many posters against Latin American countries that dare to defy US truly astonishes me.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat May 18, 2013, 12:30 PM

133. Capriles and Uribe sued over plot to wreck Venezuela's trade with Colombia

First posted by Judi Lynn here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110817351

Very relevant to this thread, so I'm quoting it in its entirety below.

-------

Venezuelan opposition leader sued in Colombia
posted by Adriaan Alsema
May 16, 2013

Venezuelan opposition leader Henrique Capriles and Colombian former President Alvaro Uribe have been sued for trying to disrupt exports to Venezuela and destabilize their governments.

According to the plaintiff, Colombian lawyer Aurelio Jimenez, Capriles met with Uribe and the former president’s adviser Jose Obdulio Gaviria in November 2011 to plan a disruption of exports to Venezuela with the aim of destabilizing the government of Colombia’s neighbor to the east.

The Colombian and Venezuelan politicians subsequently approached Colombian exporters and Venezuelan importers to convince them to suspend trade and intentionally cause scarcity in supermarkets in Caracas, according to Jimenez.

The attorney’s claim has been supported by audio that was leaked to Colombian newscast CM& who published an article about the meeting on its website. The article and audio later disappeared from the news website. Venezuelan television station TeleSur does still have a copy of the audio made during the meeting.

In the audio, Uribe instructs Venezuelan opposition leader on how to deal with an upcoming visit to Caracas of current President Juan Manuel Santos.


More:
http://colombiareports.com/venezuela-opposition-leader-sued-in-colombia/

---------------------

Also first posted by Judi Lynn, here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110817350

"Uribe denies meeting Capriles
posted by Adriaan Alsema
May 17, 2013

Colombia’s former President, Alvaro Uribe, says he never met Venezuelan opposition leader Henrique Capriles who was sued because both allegedly conspired to destabilize their governments’ relationship.

On his Twitter account, Uribe said he had never met Capriles, but would love to talk to him. Uribe’s claim was supported by Primero Colombia, a think tank run by Uribe’s adviser Jose Obdulio Gaviria.

The tweets followed the publication of news that a Colombian lawyer had included Capriles in a lawsuit against Uribe and Gaviria for their alleged attempts to disturb exports to Venezuela and plotting to discredit Uribe’s successor, current President Juan Manuel Santos.

According to the filed lawsuit, Capriles was one of the Venezuelan opposition politicians that met with Uribe and Gaviria in November 2011, preceding a visit of Santos to his then-counterpart, the late Hugo Chavez. Lawyer Aurelio Jimenez says Capriles, Uribe and Gaviria are guilty of endangering Colombia’s national integrity, conspiracy and obstruction of justice. Uribe faces additional charges of treason.

Colombia’s former president, an ideological opponent of the leftist Venezuelan government and its late President Hugo Chavez, has previously been accused by Venezuela of trying to meddle in domestic affairs."


http://colombiareports.com/uribe-denies-having-met-capriles/

----

What we have here, in the corporate media toilet paper article, appears to be stage two of a two-stage attack on Venezuela's economy (and on Manuel Santos, president of Colombia, who made peace with Venezuela): Stage one: Uribe and Capriles meet and devise a plot to pressure Colombian and Venezuelan exporters and importers to disrupt Venezuela's economy, in order to destabilize the country (and also cause trouble for Santos, whom Uribe hates). Stage two: The Associated Pukes follow up with the destabilization headline about the toilet paper and other shortages--the latest in a long list of AP campaign ads against Chavez and Maduro parading as 'news' articles.

Uribe is a fascist who stated publicly that everyone who opposes him is a "terrorist." This included labor leaders, teachers, academics, students, opposing politicians, community activists, peasant farmers, journalists, prosecutors, judges, the lot. Likely with U.S. (Bush Junta) help, he was spying on everyone and using his spy agency, DAS, to draw up hit lists for assassination, death threats, blackmail and intimidation. Some one hundred of Uribe's closest associates, including family members, are under investigation or already in jail in Colombia for ties to the death squads, drug trafficking, illegal domestic spying and other crimes. The Bush Junta larded $7 BILLION on Colombia, during Uribe's tenure, for the U.S. "war on drugs," ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. That corrupt, murderous, failed U.S. boondoggle was made to order for consolidating the trillion+ dollar cocaine trade into fewer hands. I believe that that was what Uribe was using it for--to drive the smaller players out with murder, mayhem and displacement (FIVE MILLION peasant farmers brutally displaced from their farms during Uribe/Bush's "scorched earth" policy) while protecting his own criminal organization, all with U.S. support and massive funding.

Colombian prosecutors have not yet been able to nail Uribe, probably because he is under the protection of the CIA (probably because of what he knows about Bush Junta crimes in Colombia). There is a lot of "tip of the iceberg" evidence to this effect. This allows him to run around free--like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld--making trouble for Santos, plotting against Venezuela's leftist government, and plotting a return to power in Colombia, where he wants to re-start the 70 year Colombian civil war (excuse for murdering his opponents), and re-start plans for a U.S./Colombia war on Venezuela (should Venezuelans continue to elect leftists) when Jeb is Diebolded into the White House.

What this lawyer in Colombia is suing Uribe and Capriles for is quite believable. Capriles was/is clearly running a destabilization campaign in Venezuela, where Capriles' mobs murdered nine people and torched medical facilities and poor peoples' homes after Capriles lost the recent election. And Uribe hates Venezuela's leftist leaders as much as he hates Santos. Santos not only made peace with Venezuela's leftist government (on his first day in office!), he has started peace talks with the armed leftist guerrillas (the FARC) to end Colombia's civil war, and--probably his worst crime, in Uribe's eyes--he has called publicly for the legalization of all drugs and an end to the "war on drugs."

Legalization would seriously cut into Uribe's funding stream. His funders apparently don't want to go legit. And, if, as I've guessed (because Santos is also a rightwinger although of a different stripe than Uribe), Santos is fronting for a Big Pharma/Big Ag/Big Chem legalization scheme, those entities have the power and capital to sink non-cooperating drug lords. (Santos signed the "free trade for the rich" agreement with the U.S., so it's my guess that this is the deal: Big Pharma/Big Ag/Big Chem want to take over the huge market in herbal, recreational and addictive drugs, and monopolize it, though legalization. This may explain Santos' astonishing call for legalization. He may also want legalization in order to de-fund Uribe.)

Capriles seems to just want chaos--sufficient chaos with which to overthrow the Chavaz-Maduro government. Capriles' claims of election fraud have all along been absurd. Jimmy Carter called Venezuela's election system "the best in the world" and he knows what he's talking about. His Carter Center helped set-up Venezuela's election system and has monitored numerous elections there, as well as hundreds of elections around the world. I've also researched the details of Venezuela's election system, and it has very solid anti-fraud procedures. Further, ALL Latin American countries have endorsed Maduro's win, and most of the world has, except for the U.S., which seems to be still hoping for destabilization.

One point I want to stress here is the apparent COORDINATION between the alleged conspirators--Uribe and Capriles, on disrupting trade to harm both economies and governments--and the Associated Press. I have re-named AP the Associated Pukes because of their HORRIBLE, propagandistic coverage of the Chavez government. They are the worst of the worst. And Fabiola Sanchez--one of the two by-lines on this AP so-called news article--has done this sort of thing before--written AP hit pieces that echoed the latest rightwing "talking points" out of Venezuela (and probably originating in Langley).

What you are reading here, in this toilet paper article, is rightwing propaganda, trumpeted here at DU by rightwing posters--and apparently deriving from this plot by two traitors to their countries--Uribe and Capriles--two men who will do anything to gain power. Uribe has been associated with rightwing death squads, drug trafficking and other criminal activities from the beginning of his career. Capriles has a core of fascist coupmongers in his political coalition, and was thick with the coupsters during the 2002 coup attempt against the Chavez government in Venezuela.

Capriles is slimy and slippery like Uribe, and, like Uribe, no one's been able to nail him as yet. I hope that this Colombian lawyer, Aurelio Jimenez, is able to do so, but Capriles may be under U.S. protections similar to Uribe's. Jimenez is a brave man to try. I hope he has a good case and gets an honest and brave judge, and puts these two away. They are a menace to civilized society and to the people of Venezuela and Colombia--and they are a menace to us as well. Uribe wanted a war with Venezuela and tried his damnedest to start one. But the U.S. wasn't ready for that oil war, yet--so they put him on ice for a while, teaching law students at Harvard and Georgetown (yup--Obama did that, or rather Leon Panetta). That is where these "toilet paper" headlines are heading. It is part of the ten year barrage of hit pieces against Venezuela by AP and other corporate media--whether it's shortages, or blackouts, or inflation, or street crime, or bogeyman "dictators." Where have we heard this drumbeat before?

NOT prosecuting war criminals has consequences.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat May 18, 2013, 10:48 PM

134. Blaming the opposition there is like blaming the republicans here for our do nothing congress

which is to say in both situations it is absolutely correct. While the opposition has been pushed out of office they still have plenty of power and the way they exercise it both domestically and internationally is only to the detriment of their country.

The opposition in Venezuela makes the most rebel flag waving rethuglican look down right patriotic in comparison.

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Response to Exultant Democracy (Reply #134)

Sat May 18, 2013, 11:32 PM

135. Agree 100%. That's why I am so shocked that some DUers openly support Venezuelan opposition.

Somehow I doubt it would be OK if anyone here started to cheerlead for Tories or UKIP, but it seems to be OK to root for Venezuelan RW arseholes.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #135)

Mon May 20, 2013, 03:25 AM

140. Because the world isn't black and white.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #140)

Tue May 21, 2013, 04:42 AM

148. Yet you behave like it is. Otherwise you wouldn't be advocating for RW coalition who are hell bent

on returning Venezuela to its "former glory" as The Only Alternative (tm) to the current government.

The same coalition who's presidential candidate was involved in foreign sponsored failed coup d'état against democratically elected president, and was is hell bent to do everything possible to destabilise the country after losing another round of elections.




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Response to idwiyo (Reply #148)

Tue May 21, 2013, 04:46 AM

149. Wrong, I do not believe Justice First is "right wing."

You do. You are incorrect.

I have provided ample evidence to support that they aren't right wing, particularly Capriles who has been left wing his entire career. Thus disproving any irrational accusations against him since it makes little sense for him to magically stop governing as a left wing governor and suddenly becoming a neoliberal. Those policies didn't work for him in Miranda state and he never supported those policies. Unlike the chavistas who refuse to reimplement import substitution and end the dual exchange rate that allows the boligarchs to become enriched beyond belief.

You have provided nothing but conspiracies such as your statements in this very thread that Capriles was involved in the coup when he objectively was not and was absolved of those accusations by Venezuelan courts. (And, might I add, by the international courts. It helps that the Cuban ambassador sided with him.)

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #149)

Tue May 21, 2013, 08:02 AM

151. Capriles sounds progressive/left wing to me

This story about toilet paper shortage is very funny. I did some reading and like the report says this happened because the government didn't allocate foreign currency to toilet paper imports. I bet this really scared them and in three months they will be swimming in toilet paper rolls. But I also did some reading about this Capriles Radonski and it looks to me he is a man who does care for the poor. And he seems to be very pragmatic and willing to be friends with everybody. I think I would vote for him but I'm not Venezuelan.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #149)

Tue May 21, 2013, 10:49 AM

154. I'll answer your post later. Can you please provide a link that supports your claim that Cuban

Ambassador sided with Capriles? I have hard time finding that info on Internet.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon May 20, 2013, 09:07 PM

146. Chicken, too. The economy is a mess and the ruling regime has only themselves to blame. nt

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2013, 09:15 AM

152. I'm waiting for some deranged right winger to...

Mention 'trickle down economics' !

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Response to Theyletmeeatcake2 (Reply #152)

Tue May 21, 2013, 09:25 AM

153. Good one!

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2013, 10:53 AM

155. This toilet paper is a wonderful modern convenience

 

I wish I had thought of it.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2013, 12:06 PM

157. Yet they have had two presidents in a row claim to be for the poor

 

Was it all a lie?

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2013, 12:09 PM

158. I thought Johnny Carson was dead, but his statement on the Toilet paper shortages I see lives on.

In December 1973, Carson joked on Tonight about an alleged shortage of toilet paper. Panic buying and hoarding ensued across the United States as consumers emptied stores, causing a real shortage that lasted for weeks. Stores and toilet-paper manufacturers had to ration supplies until the panic ended. Carson apologized in January 1974 for the incident, which became what The New York Times called a "classic study" of how rumors spread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Carson#Comic_characters

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=X20tAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tooFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3182%2C1867682

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fR8qAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3igEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4987%2C2267952

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=VepRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=J3MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1485%2C752674

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=5-pRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=L3MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7268%2C1823113

Just a comment that this tiolet paper shortage is probably like the 1973 US tiolet paper shortage, someone made a comment (in the Case of Carson a joke) somebody believed it and the next thing you knew you had a real shortage as everyone rush to buy toilet paper. Much to do about nothing.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:14 PM

163. Venezuela: Toilet Roll Stash Found Amid Crisis

Venezuela: Toilet Roll Stash Found Amid Crisis

Police find a warehouse containing thousands of bales of loo paper, weeks after the government blamed a conspiracy for a shortage.

12:53pm UK, Friday 31 May 2013

A huge stash of toilet roll has been found in Venezuela, just weeks after it was revealed the country faced a crisis over shortages.

A tip off from a member of the public led police to a warehouse where 2,450 bales were discovered.

Officers also found 7,000 litres of fruit juice and 400 packages of disposable baby nappies.

~snip~
Price controls were introduced for certain basic goods in 2003 after an oil industry strike paralysed the economy, sent inflation soaring and led to shortages of goods.

Experts say such price controls lead to shortages as there is little incentive to supply when the amount manufacturers receive for the goods is less than they are worth.

It can also lead to hoarding as some are tempted to buy up large amounts of goods when they are cheap so they can be resold elsewhere or later where or when prices are more expensive.


Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1097759/venezuela-toilet-roll-stash-found-amid-crisis

This article's thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014497167

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #163)

Fri May 31, 2013, 12:21 PM

164. How is 100k rolls of toilet paper going to help a country of 30 million? You ignored the math

on another thread...but seriously....


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Response to msanthrope (Reply #164)

Fri May 31, 2013, 01:28 PM

168. It would be logical to think that this is ONE example, not the ONLY example

of intentional, planned hoarding to create panic, to bring pressure upon the gobernment, to create havoc, in acts which, as Nixon explained to CIA's Richard Helms would "make the economy scream" as he wanted in order to more easily overthrow the Chilean elected President, leftist Salvador Allende.

It was good seeing Elaine's bathroom trauma again. Absolutely unique in TV history!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #168)

Fri May 31, 2013, 01:34 PM

169. No--it wouldn't be logical at all. Why? Becasue you've assumed a premise wholly without

proof.

2,400 bales of toilet paper, 7k litres of juice, and 400 boxes of baby nappies isn't the work of a foreign government--it's the work of a small-time privateer making a buck in a price-controlled economy. You can tell that just from the amounts--you are talking a few truckfuls. A few truckfuls of loot indicates someone small time, not an international conspiracy.

You are quoting Nixon? Did he hop in a time machine?

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #169)

Fri May 31, 2013, 01:43 PM

170. Maybe use TP as their currency since its actually worth something

they can put Hugo and Maduros face on it.

They simply do not have domestic production and cannot import enough because of currency controls. The price and currency controls are meaningless outside of Venezuela. They are trying to operate in a bubble.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #170)

Sat Jun 1, 2013, 12:06 AM

173. TP is so bourgeois

something true Bolivarian revolutionaries don't really need.

I'm sure their FARC brothers-in-arms managed OK without.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Fri May 31, 2013, 11:26 PM

172. Perhaps their Iranian friends can teach them the old "eat with the right, wipe with the left"

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