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Thu May 2, 2013, 01:53 AM

Detroit Catholic families plan prayer vigil over no-communion stance

Source: Detroit Free Press

Tom Nelson and Linda Karle-Nelson, lifelong Catholics, are the parents of gay adult children who are in committed relationships.

At mass Sunday, Nelson and Karle-Nelson received communion.

And they intend to do so again this weekend, even after Detroit Archbishop Allen Vigneron’s statements in April that Catholics who support gay unions or marriage should abstain from receiving communion.

“He’s not going to keep me from the Eucharist,” said Nelson, 83, a retired engineer from Farmington Hills. “Somebody’s got to stand up and say, ‘Enough.’ ”



Read more: http://www.freep.com/article/20130502/NEWS05/305020049/Gay-Catholic-Archdiocese-Vigneron-Marriage

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Response to SpartanDem (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:57 AM

1. I read somewhere this archbishop moved kiddie-rapists around...

And the diocese paid out millions in settlements.

If this is the story I remember, then to this "good archbishop," gays is BAD! But kiddie-molesting priests under him should just be moved around.

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Response to SpartanDem (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 02:27 AM

2. More Catholics support gay marriage than Americans overall.

And they're continuing to go to Communion, no matter what a few Bishops have said.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #2)

Thu May 2, 2013, 03:13 AM

3. I think that's really interesting, pnwmom

Does the study or poll or whatever indicate why that is?

Anyway, good for those who say they are not going to be kept away from the Eucharist by a bad ruling from the hierarchy.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #3)

Thu May 2, 2013, 03:43 AM

4. Catholics in general tend to be more on the liberal side, so that would fit.

It's the right wing Catholics that get the publicity these days, but there are more Ted Kennedy/Joe Biden Catholics out there. And a lot more "nuns on the bus" than Bishops.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #4)

Thu May 2, 2013, 04:16 AM

5. Then the Bishops et al. assuredly should get out of the way and be led by their flock

It's about time, and for so many reasons.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #5)

Thu May 2, 2013, 04:22 AM

6. I wish the nuns would just take over.

But they're aging out I'm afraid.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #6)

Thu May 2, 2013, 05:01 AM

7. It's that vow of poverty and obedience, I think

Girls have so many more options in life than they did in 1950. And if you are accustomed to thinking for yourself and not believing that's a bad thing, well. As for poverty, read on.

I had some very enlightening conversations with a Roman Catholic nun in her early 60s that I met at a women's conference. She had had a satisfactory career in social work, dressed plainly but like the rest of us, and projected that same quiet presence that the Buddhist nun at the conference did. (I guess a lifetime of prayer, reflection, and meditation will do that for you, regardless.)

However, she saw a bleak old age for herself. She said she knew that if/when she became frail, she would be sharing a ward with other extremely old nuns, with curtains between the beds, and few to care for them. Few to care for them -- as young women were not joining in appreciable numbers; and few resources to care for them -- as they had taken a vow of poverty, and they and their order had little if anything put by.

I was shocked, the more so having just finished a graduate school program where one of my classmates was a Franciscan priest. He lived in a group of his spiritual brothers, maybe half a dozen, and they had the resources to buy him a new car one time and at the time I met him they had sprung for 3 years of grad school. Perhaps they lived modestly? But most certainly not in poverty.

The Roman Catholic Church as an institution is very wealthy, but a great deal of its work is done by women -- teaching, nursing, social work, and the like. And if the women in question are nuns ... I get the part about giving up worldly possessions and all that, but I don't get the part where Mother Church doesn't provide a substantial safety net for those who have made the triple-vow and then have done the work of keeping it all going.

So, right you are about the nuns aging out. It's a shame, and it won't get better all that soon, I'm afraid.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #7)

Thu May 2, 2013, 06:38 AM

8. Nuns get nothing. Never have, never will.

They've just been a source of free labor for the Church for years. A long time ago I got into an argument on another message board with a priest who actually thought the Church owed these women NOTHING. Not even the equivalent of Social Security.

If you get a chance (and if it's still even touring) go see "Late Night Catechism." It's very funny, but at the end the nun makes the point you made. "I'm getting older. I gave my life to this institution. Who will take care of me?" It was just always assumed that there would be younger women to take care of the older. That didn't happen. So now there's a rapidly aging population of religious who really have no other means of support.

I have known some amazing nuns in my life -- if only they were in charge of the Church. It hurts to see them so marginalized, given that they do so much important work toward the Church's mission.

As for poverty, some religious orders require it; others don't. Diocesan priests don't have to take a vow of poverty, hence my former parish's priest tooling around town in a Corvette. Don't know how I feel about that, given that Christ basically said to leave behind all your possessions behind and follow me.

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Response to AngryOldDem (Reply #8)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:51 AM

14. what did he say the church owed priests?

 

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Response to Hekate (Reply #7)

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:51 PM

15. There was something done after that to set up better retirement systems

for the nuns, but I don't know what it was or whether it was sufficient.

I'm going to a high school reunion next fall and some of our old nuns will be there -- maybe there will be a way to ask.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #4)

Thu May 2, 2013, 09:17 AM

11. Do you think it is comforting to those harmed by that group when those in that group claim they

don't even believe the religion, don't really want to harm us, they just stand aside and let their leadership harm us for them? 'If I was in charge, I'd not kick you in the balls, but I'm not, so get ready for my foot'. Do you think the person being kicked gives a shit about your inner struggles with kicking them? Is not that whole raft of excuses just that? 'Yes, our actions are terrible but the Pope makes us do that, we don't even believe it.' That helps them sleep at night, does nothing to end the kicks to the balls.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #2)

Thu May 2, 2013, 06:44 AM

9. That's because at the end of the day, it's a matter of personal conscience.

I don't know where the Church ever got the idea that it was the arbiter/gatekeeper of God's grace.

Seems to me Christ welcomed ALL who came to Him.

I always love it when some holier-than-thou Catholics sit in judgment of those they see in the communion line, be it Joe Biden or some Joe Schmo who they think doesn't deserve the sacrament because of whatever perceived sin. But just how do they know the state of another person's soul? And isn't that judgment a sin in and of itself? Just askin'.

I salute those Catholics in the story for even setting foot in the church to begin with. The Church has made it abundantly clear that it does not welcome people like my son. Therefore, it does not welcome me.

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Response to SpartanDem (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 07:25 AM

10. Bishops are acting so very unlike Jesus

 

Those Bishops that seek to deny communion to anyone under any circumstance are doing the opposite of what Christ Jesus would do. Jesus extended love to all and followed the Holy Spirit in all things. He taught that the Kingdom of God is within everyone and if the Kingdom is within and God is the Kingdom then that means that everyone is an extension of God. It has been said that in order to find God one must leave religion behind. Ironic, that the very spirit of a body said to represent Christ does obstruct many in their pursuit of becoming aware of Christ in everyone. I don't see a bright future for organized religion as many realize that the Church is for the most part focused upon worldly power and not about the kingdom of God which is not of this world..

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Response to SpartanDem (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 10:03 AM

12. Detroit Archbishop Allen Vigneron wants to follow the letter of the churches "law"??

Then why aren't they doing criminal background checks on every church goer to make sure they aren't handing out communion wafers to all the other supposed sinners?

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Response to SpartanDem (Original post)

Thu May 2, 2013, 11:48 AM

13. new church

 

As a non-Catholic, it's beyond me why there hasn't been a mass exodus of people from the Catholic church in America to a new church that's Catholic but sane.

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