HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » (Capriles) Venezuelan can...

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:06 AM

(Capriles) Venezuelan candidate demands recount (Maduro won)

Last edited Mon Apr 15, 2013, 09:06 AM - Edit history (2)

Source: CNN

Denouncing election irregularities, Venezuelan opposition candidate Henrique Capriles Radonski demanded a recount and said early Monday that he will not recognize the country's presidential results "until every vote is counted."

His comments came less than an hour after officials said the man former Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez handpicked to be his successor had won the country's presidential vote.

With 99% of votes counted, Nicolas Maduro won 50.66% of votes, National Electoral Council President Tibisay Lucena said, calling the results "irreversible." Capriles won 49.07% of votes, she said.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/14/world/americas/venezuela-elections/index.html



Edited around 12:30 am pacific.

47 replies, 6200 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 47 replies Author Time Post
Reply (Capriles) Venezuelan candidate demands recount (Maduro won) (Original post)
alp227 Apr 2013 OP
joshcryer Apr 2013 #1
Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #18
Daniel537 Apr 2013 #31
joshcryer Apr 2013 #40
KamaAina Apr 2013 #35
bitchkitty Apr 2013 #37
Fgiriun Apr 2013 #2
Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #6
roody Apr 2013 #9
PSPS Apr 2013 #12
joshcryer Apr 2013 #15
Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #19
joshcryer Apr 2013 #23
Daniel537 Apr 2013 #32
bitchkitty Apr 2013 #38
Arctic Dave Apr 2013 #3
Coyotl Apr 2013 #4
joshcryer Apr 2013 #7
Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #20
Coyotl Apr 2013 #26
mecherosegarden Apr 2013 #5
roody Apr 2013 #8
Archae Apr 2013 #10
Judi Lynn Apr 2013 #24
Archae Apr 2013 #27
Dreamer Tatum Apr 2013 #30
Daniel537 Apr 2013 #34
Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #39
Judi Lynn Apr 2013 #46
Starry Messenger Apr 2013 #11
Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #13
joshcryer Apr 2013 #14
alp227 Apr 2013 #22
Daniel537 Apr 2013 #33
joshcryer Apr 2013 #41
Judi Lynn Apr 2013 #47
Ash_F Apr 2013 #16
joshcryer Apr 2013 #17
Dawson Leery Apr 2013 #29
idwiyo Apr 2013 #21
vinny9698 Apr 2013 #25
iandhr Apr 2013 #28
Peace Patriot Apr 2013 #36
joshcryer Apr 2013 #42
joshcryer Apr 2013 #43
Peace Patriot Apr 2013 #44
joshcryer Apr 2013 #45

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:08 AM

1. The homophobic bigot wins.

Yay.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 03:21 AM

18. Yeah, that's what Maduro is ALL about. Sorry your guy lost.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:17 PM

31. The Venezuelan people spoke.

 

Get over it and move on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #31)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 02:35 PM

40. Sure, 1 million chavistas voted againt the homophobic bigot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:49 PM

35. And the tool of the wealthy oligarchs loses.

 

Not much to choose from there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 02:11 PM

37. The elitist twat loses!

Viva Maduro!!!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:15 AM

2. I consider myself a socialist

but this is terrible news for socialism worldwide. These people are absolute authoritarian clowns with no future and little consideration for human progress. They believe in a poor uneducated society, not one of equality and justice. Socialism will fail in latin america for the same reason right wing dictatorship fail, corruption and rampant discrimination.
Now Venezuela will be a mess of a country and socialism will be blamed instead of the ineptitude of leaders and the stupidity of the constituents.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fgiriun (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:39 AM

6. Check this out...

 



I never go by US media to cover anything in this hemisphere.

Hell, some of them consider Canada to be commie.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fgiriun (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:59 AM

9. I thought they believed in literacy

for all and followed it up with action. I think that you are misinformed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fgiriun (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:43 AM

12. LOL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fgiriun (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 02:02 AM

15. In some ways I agree with this.

The failure of the revolution due to mass corruption and elite boligarchs and narcocriminals will be damaging to socialism in Venezuela. Half of the voting Venezuelans voted against it and as Venezuela worsens and starts to implement more neoliberal policies to keep the government afloat it will only push it further away.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fgiriun (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 03:23 AM

19. Two responses, two sour grapes. Boo hoo.

 

Guess you're not much for democracy are you?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #19)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 04:07 AM

23. I take it you'll be supporting the recount?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fgiriun (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:18 PM

32. And a majority of Venezuelans disagree with you.

 

This election was not about "worldwide socialism", it was about who Venezuelans thought was best for their country and they have spoken. Respect the vote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fgiriun (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 02:12 PM

38. LOL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:28 AM

3. Hurray for Venezuela!

 

Fuck the fascist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:36 AM

4. Great news for equality, justice, and socialism and a blow toright wing dictatorship and corruption

 

Now Venezuela will still be a democratic country with a socialist leader instead of the ineptitude of right-wing leaders and their stupidity.

But, hey, just an opinion

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Coyotl (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:46 AM

7. Not sure what you're saying.

Or if you're serious.

Venezuela is one of the longest lasting democracies in all of Latin America.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 03:27 AM

20. Oh, if only we could go back to the days of Andres Perez.

 

They knew how to deal with uppity little people back then.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 09:06 AM

26. See post #2 above!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:37 AM

5. So sad, so very sad! N/T

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:57 AM

8. Very close election. Congratulations

to Maduro.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:40 AM

10. Uh huh...

How many "investigations" will now be undertaken into the accusation that Chavez was "poisoned?"

I also don't see Maduro having Chavez's popularity, so it wouldn't surprise me when Maduro becomes a dictator.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Archae (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 04:40 AM

24. Funny seeing right-wingers claiming Chavez was charismatic, now that he's dead.

They used to call him absolutely EVERYTHING vicious and filthy other than "charismatic."

It's obviously just a new wrinkle in the right-wing ((((( spin ))))) against Maduro.

Why don't you take a moment to remind people of how you look down upon the fact that as a young man Maduro drove a bus? That'll show him!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #24)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 09:26 AM

27. Back in the 70's...

Left-wingers did a lot of talking up of a guy named Ayatollah Khomeini, mostly simply because he was anti-the Shah.

We knew what a jackass the Shah was, and what he had done.

So the Shah gets old and sick, and leaves Iran, Khomeini waltzes in, takes over, and sets up a regime that is even WORSE than what was under the Shah.
His followers take our embassy people hostage.

The Khomeini fan club tried to deny Khomeini was bad.

Is that how it is always going to be?
Swinging from one extreme to the other?
Going from far-right secularism to theocracy and terrorism?
Going from far-right banana republics to far-left?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Archae (Reply #27)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:59 AM

30. Oh, SNAP. +1 nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Archae (Reply #27)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:24 PM

34. This isn't about what "left-wingers" like or want.

 

Its about a nation voting for its President. You don't have to like the result, but it is what it is. Apparently democracy is good for you only when your guy wins. Don't be a hypocrite. If Venezuela was a real dictatorship don't you think the results would have been a little higher than say a 1% victory? But of course i'm sure you don't care about trivial facts like that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Archae (Reply #27)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 02:21 PM

39. What? I can't recall any leftwingers supporting Khomeini. I do remember leftwingers

split between supporting secular left Iranians organization and Islamic Marxist organization. But that was so long ago so it would be great if you could provide a link of these lefties who supported Kohmeini.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #39)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 02:57 AM

46. Thank you! I've been racking my brain, straining to remember ANY left-wing people

who supported Khomeini. I got nada.

How exceedingly odd that claim is. Your suggestion the poster could share a source or two to back that up makes perfect sense, and he/she could educate us all at the same time!

Thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:41 AM

11. k&r

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:48 AM

13. What an embarrassment that it was so close.

Maduro should have gotten 105% of the vote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 02:00 AM

14. I'll be watching DUers closely as they decry calls for a recount.

Even though we wanted a recount in 2004 but Kerry didn't ask for it.

Even though we wanted a recount in 2000 but the SCOTUS shot us down.

Even though Al Franken won his recount.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #14)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 03:39 AM

22. Capriles has now demanded a recount.

Article has been updated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #14)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 12:21 PM

33. And what's the reasoning for a recount in this case?

 

The official results have Maduro winning by more than 230,000 votes. A closer margin than expected, but not exactly razor thin. Capriles needs to show actual evidence of fraud or irregularities, not just whine about "theft" and "fraud".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #33)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 02:39 PM

41. He has actas, post-count audits of 54% of the paper ballots.

He wouldn't be calling for a recount if he didn't have anything.

He can't exactly "show" the actas until the count is underway, otherwise any count can be set up to match them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #33)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 03:06 AM

47. Just read something tonight related, from PBS Newshour.

an interview with Mark Weisbrot:

ANALYSIS AIR DATE: April 15, 2013

Assessing U.S.-Venezuela Relations After Very Close Election Favors Maduro

~snip~
One is that this is probably the most important target for regime change from the United States government. And, two, it has 500 billion barrels of oil approximately. And those two things are reeled. And I think that's why we're having this.

Let's face it. In 2006, there was an election in Mexico where Calderon won by 0.6 percent, about a third of the margin that Maduro had. And what did the U.S. government do? They congratulated him before there was any kind of even announcement or official announcement that he won. And then they organized an international campaign to legitimate his election.

And they supported them when they not only refused a recount, but refused to even divulge ...


RAY SUAREZ: Absent American congratulations or not, what does Venezuelan law say about whether or not Capriles can get a recount? Is he likely to get one?

MARK WEISBROT: Oh, he doesn't have any entitlement to a recount.

And you already have -- the Venezuelan system is very secure. That's why Jimmy Carter called it the best in the -- electoral process in the world. They already audited 54 percent of the votes. Statistically, they do that right there. They take -- you know, there's two copies of every vote. You push a touch-screen. You get a receipt. You get to look at it. You put it in a ballot box.

So, unlike our system, where we don't really know who won when it's a close election, they know. They have 50 -- I mean, they take a random selection of 54 percent for an audit. And they look at the machine and they make sure it counts up with the ballot and they do it in front of the opposition witnesses. And that's already been done.


More:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/latin_america/jan-june13/venezuela2_04-15.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 02:11 AM

16. Wow, that close?

The opposition would have definitely won had they not chosen to nominate an aristocratic tool. It would have been a blow-out if they just nominated some random person.

I bet they feel like the Republicans in 2012.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ash_F (Reply #16)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 02:40 AM

17. Doubful.

It took massive mobilization by Capriles to close 20 points in a month. A remarkable feat, really. I was thinking he'd lose by at least 5, 10 more optimistically. Losing by a point is shocking.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ash_F (Reply #16)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 11:19 AM

29. If someone in the mold of Brazil's Lula or Australias Hawke

runs as the opposition in the next election, they have a good chance of winning.
They would enact enough reforms to make the market work, still keep a strong arm around it to prevent the markets from getting out of hand.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 03:31 AM

21. K&R Congrats to Venezuela's new president!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 08:44 AM

25. Exxon and CIA backed Capriles

That alone would make me vote against him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 10:18 AM

28. Its clear the opposition is knocking at the door.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 01:52 PM

36. Maduro immediately agreed to a 100% recount.

ďLetís do it! No problem." --Maduro
http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/8626

Background: Venezuela votes electronically but they use OPEN SOURCE CODE that belongs to the PUBLIC--code that anyone may review--and they do a whopping 55% audit (comparison of electronic totals to ballots)--more than five times the audit needed to detect fraud in an electronic system.

By comparison, all states in the U.S. use 'TRADE SECRET' code--code that the public is forbidden to review, code that is largely owned and controlled by ONE, PRIVATE, FAR RIGHTWING-CONNECTED corporation (ES&S, which bought out Diebold)--and half the states do NO AUDIT AT ALL while the other half do a miserably inadequate 1% audit.

That is one reason why Jimmy Carter recently called Venezuela's election system "the best in the world."

Venezuela CAN do a 100% audit. (In the U.S., half the states CAN'T do any audit--let alone a 100% audit--and the other half don't bother to do even a decent audit. They 'trust' Diebold/ES&S. Gawd!)

The ironies created by the Corporate Media's "Big Lie" coverage of Chavez are plentiful. "Chavez the dictator" has been in charge for over a decade, yet Venezuela, during that time, created "THE BEST ELECTION SYSTEM IN THE WORLD." Frankly, I wish we had that kind of "dictatorship" here...um, the kind that trusts the will of the people, the kind that SERVES the people, the kind that the fascist 1% slander as a "dictatorship." (Guess who also got called a "dictator" by the fascist 1%?--FDR!)

This is WHY Nicolas Maduro can confidently and immediately agree to a 100% audit. The system is very transparent and almost impossible to rig (compared to ours, which is 100% RIGGABLE by whoever is controlling ES&S*).

Obviously, given this close (and reliable!) vote count in Venezuela, Nicolas Maduro has to prove himself to the 5% to 10% of "undecided" Venezuelan voters who always voted for the Chavez government, though they may not have been 'chavistas" or socialists or as enthusiastic about the Chavez government as those reliable 50% of Chavez voters were. (Chavez won elections with 55% to nearly 60% margins.)

The forces at work against universal health care, free education through college, good wages/benefits, low unemployment, social and political inclusiveness, national control of Venezuela's huge oil reserves and use of those profits to benefit the people who live there--and, indeed, the forces at work against honest, transparent elections--are very, very powerful, and can use this close election to try to destabilize Venezuela, if they can, to remove this example of democracy and social progress, and to re-assert control not only of Venezuela's oil but also of the U.S. 'Southern Command''s "circle the wagons" region--Central America/the Caribbean--and, if possible, to re-take South America, where the leftist democracy movement has nearly swept the continent.

It's one thing for Capriles to ask for a recount. It's quite another for him to say that the Maduro government is "completely illegitimate" (as he is quoted as saying in the above cited article). A recount is a fair request. Calling the government ""completely illegitimate" just because the vote is close is destabilization. It invites riots and disorder and may well be part of a plan to do just that.

Maduro has a lot of responsibility as do all members of his government--responsibility that goes way beyond Venezuela's borders. Venezuela was the pioneer and inspirer of this vast and historic leftist democracy movement. How Maduro and his supporters lost a 10% to 20% lead over the past few weeks I'm sure will be closely analyzed. It may be that the Corporate Media's drumbeat has finally done its work--has 'gotten' to some Venezuelans (the more iffy Chavez voters) with its non-stop negative campaign of distortions and outright lies against Chavez and now Maduro. That, to me, is the key thing that happened over the last few weeks. We saw it here at DU. We saw it throughout the Corporate Media. It was, in fact, sickening--some of the worst and most dishonest so-called 'journalism' I have ever seen--across the board, from the New York Slimes to the New Corker, from Rotters to the BBCons, and from the Associated Pukes to the Wall Street Urinal.

However, it may be internal issues instead or in combination with the Corporate Media's "Big Lie" war against the Chavez government. It is certainly a time for Maduro government and internal chavista self-criticism, as called for by the head of the National Assembly (a chavista and former VP). The successes of the Chavez years on policy--and they have been many and dramatic--need to be expanded into areas that have not been successfully addressed, such as bureaucracy and local police corruption, and the prevalence of guns (Venezuela is a gun-loving society). It is also a time for LEADERSHIP--to fill the void left by Chavez and to pull the country together, to fend off destabilization plots, to counter the Corporate Media and U.S. government "Big Lie", AND to improve on the Bolivarian Revolution--to make it yet more inclusive and yet more successful in its best goals--food and shelter for all, education for all, opportunity for all, a vibrant, creative economy, a vibrant creative democracy.

I DON'T think it's all up to Maduro. It never was under Chavez either. (That was one of the Corporate Media's "Big Lies"--in their effort to build up a "bogeyman" whom they could pummel and overthrow.) This is a deep, REAL social and political revolution, driven from "below." It's up to all Venezuelans to preserve their "New Deal" and their inclusive democracy. THEY achieved these things. Chavez alone could not have done so. Nor can Maduro. But this is nevertheless a big test of leadership for Maduro. He obviously still has a way to go, to earn Venezuelans' trust and to rally the country's creative energy. I hope he and they succeed. Capriles, I suspect, is a Reagan-in-sheep's clothing. Reagan began the dismantling of our own "New Deal" and turned our democracy right around into a fascist oligarchy, making the Bush Junta possible and even inevitable. I hope Venezuelans don't fall off that cliff, as we did.


-----------------------

*(It's sobering to realize that the head of the Pentagon, Chuck Hagel, was the first beneficiary of ES&S's rigged elections. He first ran for Senate WHILE he was an investor in ES&S and THEY did the 'vote count.' He helped CREATE this totally riggable system. So, who controls ES&S? My best guess: a consortium of "dark actors" in the CIA and the Pentagon serving war profiteers, of course, and other transglobal corporations and banksters. NO ONE gains high office without their okay, and they groom candidates for certain positions, then 'elect' them--or, as I believe was the case with Obama--ALLOW them to be elected, provided they agree to certain strictures, such as NO prosecution--and not even investigation--of Bush Junta war criminals, highway robbery of the American people with bankster bailouts, and so forth. Above all, our false office holders and our permitted-to-be-elected office holders must. not. expose. the. fraudulence. of. private. corporate. 'vote.' 'counting.')

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #36)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 03:03 PM

42. Ballots have been stolen from polling stations.

And strewn about: http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/elecciones-2013/130415/encontraron-boletas-de-votacion-esparcidas-en-la-troncal-5-en-barinas

The system is very transparent and almost impossible to rig


Agreed. Which is why people stealing ballots and strewing them about are ignorant fools.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #36)

Mon Apr 15, 2013, 03:38 PM

43. LOL, and they're already backtracking:

http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/elecciones-2013/130415/jorge-rodriguez-indica-que-abrir-100-de-cajas-no-implica-reconteo-manu

This is fucking hilarious.

I bet Maduro didn't even know as he mouthed off that his selection was ordained by the machines and a full audit would uncover it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #43)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 02:22 AM

44. It is mathematically impossible to rig a vote count in Venezuela,

which does a whopping 55% audit (comparison of electronic totals to ballots)--more than five times the audit necessary to detect fraud in an electronic system. In fact, Capriles' demand for a 100% audit is more grandstanding than anything else--i.e., 100% is NOT necessary to detect fraud. I have no doubt at all that the result, though close, will hold up.

I have studied these matters in detail, first of all because OUR system is so very riggable--with ZERO audits in half the states and a completely inadequate 1% audit in the other half, and with a private corporation running most of it. I've read the reports of statisticians, computer experts, elections experts and others which lay out the reasons why at least a 10% audit is needed to detect fraud. Venezuela not only has PUBLIC code, its audit is far more than is necessary.

It's absurd to casually knock this system, as if to play on OUR fears about OUR system. E-voting CAN be honest. It IS in Venezuela. It is NOT here. And that is on the face of the facts as to the code and the audit. Venezuela's system has also been closely monitored by every reputable election monitoring organization on earth--the Carter Center, the OAS, the EU, Unasur and more. Jimmy Carter did not casually call it "the best election system in the world." Carter does NOT take such things lightly. He has devoted his life, post-president, to helping set up and monitor election systems in hundreds of countries. This takes months and years of preparation. No reputable election monitoring group just drops in, on election day to make pronouncements. They all work very hard on the details in advance, so they KNOW what they're monitoring.

So you are placing yourself above all these facts and above people who actually know what they're talking about, and claiming some kind of "dark" knowledge that Maduro's election was "ordained by the machines" and "a full audit would uncover it"? You don't even know that "a full audit" is statistically unnecessary to detect fraud! You claim to be a Venezuelan but you don't know the first thing about your own country's vote counting system (that a 55% audit is way more than necessary).

But the biggest absurdity of all is the notion that Maduro somehow rigged this virtually unriggable system and DIDN'T GIVE HIMSELF A COMFORTABLE MARGIN OF VICTORY!

You are casting aspersions where none are warranted. It's impossible to know if you are deliberately aiding destabilization or are just naive. But it is ignorant statements like yours that are USED to destabilize countries and overthrow democracies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #44)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 02:30 AM

45. Capriles could just show the actas.

He really believes he won.

But if he just shows the actas the CNE could claim they're fake (and of course, you and others here would believe the CNE, naturally).

So he has to call for a full recount so that the people of Venezuela can see that he's not making it up.

A comfortable margin of victory would've been a lot more obvious as the participation rates could be released and it would show up very easily.

edit: Article 350 of the Venezuelan constitution demands that all Venezuelans denounce an illegitimate government. The young student Venezuelans protesting tonight are who are doing just that, not I, posting on a forum, in English, where 99.999% people don't care what I say. I am, of course, admittedly touched that you believe my posts here are "destabilizing."

I should also say that that rhetoric was told to me when Gore lost and we progressives protested. "Accept the results. Sit down. Shut up."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread