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Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:07 PM

Authorities: 4-year-old picks up Tenn. deputy's gun from a bed, fatally shoots officer's wife

Source: Associated Press

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - Authorities say a 4-year-old boy grabbed a loaded gun at a family cookout and accidentally shot and killed the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy.

Investigators say Wilson County Deputy Daniel Fanning on Saturday was showing his weapons to a relative in a bedroom of his Lebanon home when the toddler came in and picked up a gun off the bed. Sheriff Robert Bryan says the weapon discharged, hitting 48-year-old Josephine Fanning.

She was pronounced dead at the scene. The child is not related to her or her husband.

Bryan says the shooting was a terrible accident and that within seconds of Fanning placing the gun on the bed, the toddler picked it up.

The gun was not Fanning's service weapon and the sheriff says the deputy's weapons are normally stored in a safe.


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Authorities+4yearold+picks+Tenn+deputys+from+fatally+shoots/8213144/story.html



Why wasn't there a good kid with a gun to prevent this tragedy from happening?

94 replies, 8552 views

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Reply Authorities: 4-year-old picks up Tenn. deputy's gun from a bed, fatally shoots officer's wife (Original post)
Tab Apr 2013 OP
Tab Apr 2013 #1
bossy22 Apr 2013 #2
jonthebru Apr 2013 #30
CreekDog Apr 2013 #49
mac56 Apr 2013 #59
Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #77
CreekDog Apr 2013 #80
riverbendviewgal Apr 2013 #3
Deuce Apr 2013 #84
Shadowflash Apr 2013 #4
tblue Apr 2013 #32
mikeytherat Apr 2013 #38
go west young man Apr 2013 #39
Shadowflash Apr 2013 #40
geek tragedy Apr 2013 #5
Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #79
Coyotl Apr 2013 #6
NYC_SKP Apr 2013 #7
bowens43 Apr 2013 #14
MH1 Apr 2013 #15
NYC_SKP Apr 2013 #16
MH1 Apr 2013 #18
NYC_SKP Apr 2013 #55
jonthebru Apr 2013 #31
cosmicone Apr 2013 #35
Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #81
tblue Apr 2013 #33
Sancho Apr 2013 #43
CreekDog Apr 2013 #51
NYC_SKP Apr 2013 #52
CreekDog Apr 2013 #54
Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #82
CreekDog Apr 2013 #85
Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #86
CreekDog Apr 2013 #87
Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #88
CreekDog Apr 2013 #89
Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #90
CreekDog Apr 2013 #91
Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #93
CreekDog Apr 2013 #92
Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #94
markpkessinger Apr 2013 #8
Nevernose Apr 2013 #20
markpkessinger Apr 2013 #21
BlueStreak Apr 2013 #26
tblue Apr 2013 #34
slackmaster Apr 2013 #50
BlueStreak Apr 2013 #56
slackmaster Apr 2013 #57
BlueStreak Apr 2013 #67
slackmaster Apr 2013 #69
BlueStreak Apr 2013 #71
crim son Apr 2013 #72
BlueStreak Apr 2013 #73
Skittles Apr 2013 #9
defacto7 Apr 2013 #10
avebury Apr 2013 #11
tabasco Apr 2013 #12
wordpix Apr 2013 #65
bowens43 Apr 2013 #13
Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #83
Doc_Technical Apr 2013 #17
MH1 Apr 2013 #19
BlueStreak Apr 2013 #27
Blandocyte Apr 2013 #23
happyslug Apr 2013 #22
presscac Apr 2013 #25
samsingh Apr 2013 #24
BlueStreak Apr 2013 #28
Lint Head Apr 2013 #29
SunSeeker Apr 2013 #36
quadrature Apr 2013 #37
mikeytherat Apr 2013 #41
sinkingfeeling Apr 2013 #42
City Lights Apr 2013 #44
randr Apr 2013 #45
treestar Apr 2013 #46
wordpix Apr 2013 #47
Beaverhausen Apr 2013 #53
wordpix Apr 2013 #61
MH1 Apr 2013 #63
wordpix Apr 2013 #64
wordpix Apr 2013 #66
WinkyDink Apr 2013 #74
PolitFreak Apr 2013 #48
HockeyMom Apr 2013 #58
mac56 Apr 2013 #60
Bay Boy Apr 2013 #68
AndyA Apr 2013 #62
TroglodyteScholar Apr 2013 #70
Sunlei Apr 2013 #75
patrice Apr 2013 #76
Fresh_Start Apr 2013 #78

Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:08 PM

1. Note: Comment was sarcasm

in case it wasn't clear.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:09 PM

2. No safe storage laws proposed/passed ever applied to Law Enforcement

makes you wonder...

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Response to bossy22 (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 02:10 AM

30. All the police I know

who have numerous firearms keep them in a safe. And many Police have several firearms.
This of course was a sad tragedy, but why the fuck was a loaded firearm being "shown" to his friends anyway. With the safety off at that.
Stupid bastard lost his wife for his frickin' stupidity.
His life, that is if he loved her, is hereby immediately ruined.

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Response to jonthebru (Reply #30)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:46 AM

49. when the culture says they make you a man, people will do these things

NOBODY should be proud of the deadly force they carry around each day, yet these guns are seen as toys, and showpieces as things that make us strong and give us the power to be feared.

and thus, you get these things happening.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #49)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 11:19 AM

59. ^ THIS ^

X 1,000

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #49)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:25 PM

77. So perhaps 20,000,000 women show guns for a different reason?

We are entering a new era of feminist thought and tolerance for different sexualities.

You might want to play catch up; no one will fault you for it.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #77)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:29 PM

80. I didn't say everyone wants to be a "man", nor does owning a gun make you one

but is that a part of the gun culture, a big part? yes, absolutely and it was pretty obvious from my previous post that i think that sentiment is total BS.

and i am a vigorous supporter of feminism. in fact, you barely have said a word on the issue until a gun was mentioned, i've been posting in favor for years.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:17 PM

3. the deputy should lose his job

And be charged with manslaughter.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:57 PM

84. Yes, my immediate thought was negligent homicide....

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:25 PM

4. Considering this happened

with a supposedly trained and professional gun user what harm can it do to put guns in classrooms with one adult with far less gun handling training and 30 small children......

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Response to Shadowflash (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 02:19 AM

32. Yeah. What could possibly go wrong?

I teach K-2 children and I do not want a gun anywhere near my classroom.

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Response to Shadowflash (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 06:08 AM

38. Here's video of a trained, law enforcement officer, with his gun, in front of kids:



Remember, likes he keep emphasizing in the video, he is the only one trained to handle that weapon.

mikey_the_rat

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Response to mikeytherat (Reply #38)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 07:45 AM

39. The deputy is a school officer.

There goes Wayne LaPierre's arming school cops remedy. This idiot was a school cop and now his own wife is dead. What happens when an idiot like him kills someone else's kid? Link here: It's the last line in the story. http://www.wdef.com/news/state/story/TBI-4-year-old-shoots-and-kills-deputys-wife/b7zRWjOtoUCqPB2_pTdPhg.cspx

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Response to mikeytherat (Reply #38)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:15 AM

40. Heh.

Yeah. I saw that a while back.

Guns in schools, what could possibly go wrong?

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:29 PM

5. The gun culture claims another victim.

And yes, it's the cultural love of guns that is killing people.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:28 PM

79. So how many tens of millions do you blame? nt

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:46 PM

6. Remember this story next time someone wants to put a gun in a school.

Because this is the kind of gun accident that can be prevented easily, unlike the crazed gun nut. Keep guns out of schools and you keep them out of the hands of the children.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:02 PM

7. More gun laws would have prevented this tragedy, clearly...

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:36 PM

14. Yes, they would have absolutely

it should be illegal for him for the cop to have it outside of work hours.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:40 PM

15. Maybe mandatory life sentences for leaving a loaded gun within reach of a child?

well it makes more sense than the idea that the death penalty deters people from committing murder.

If a presumably responsible* person knows they face serious jail time for doing something as INCREDIBLY FUCKING STUPID as this guy did, maybe they will be a teensy bit less stupid.

Well okay, maybe not. But that guy should go to jail anyway. And so should anyone who leaves a loaded gun in a child's reach. And it should be widely known that this penalty will be applied.

(* "responsible gun owner", right?)

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Response to MH1 (Reply #15)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:43 PM

16. No such proposed laws apply to Sheriffs, AFAIK.

Point being that while there are laws that, if adhered to, might have made this tragedy less likely, seldom are they written to apply to LEOs.

Wouldn't have mattered.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #16)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:55 PM

18. I don't know why such a law shouldn't apply to LEOs.

Of all people, they should be experts in safe handling.

But of course, this sad story is just another example of what can happen when guns are in the possession of "responsible gun owners". As long as people feel the need to show off their (loaded) shit - because gun fetishism is just SOOOO cool - tragedies like this will happen.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #15)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 11:06 AM

55. That's the kind of law that would most likely be applied after the death or injury of a party.

Enforcement would be tricky, except where others in the home snitch, which would be better than a dead child but still not so much preventative as punitive.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 02:11 AM

31. Intelligence may have prevented this tragedy.

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Response to jonthebru (Reply #31)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 03:34 AM

35. +1000000 n/t

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Response to jonthebru (Reply #31)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:31 PM

81. I agree. Sure beats beating the drums of culture war. nc

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 02:31 AM

33. Fewer guns damn well might have.

It should be really difficult to get your hands on a gun, especially for a clod like this deputy. He should NEVER have had a gun and he should never be permitted to touch one in the future. That woman would still be alive. And that poor baby has to go through that trauma. Just so not worth it.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 09:30 AM

43. Laws won't always prevent accidents or provide immunity from stupidity, but...

tougher laws might have worked here.

In my view, all gun possessors should have a license, training, insurance, etc. (and I'm a gun owner). Insurance or the license might require an inspection or proof of gun security. In other words, your homeowner's policy probably asks if you have a dog, smoke alarm, etc. Likewise, if there's a child in the home, your gun owner's policy might require limiting access to the guns. I think LEO's have auto and home insurance, and driver's licenses, etc. Most of the time, you need a special permit to drive an 18 wheeler. By some mechanism, even the LEO would have to meet requirements.

Anyone with access (family, houseworkers, etc.) should have the same training or else all guns should be 100% secured (locking gun safe, trigger locks, etc.).

Regulations such as that might have informed the mother/wife, and also prevented the show-and-tell.

Laws that "punish criminals" are after the fact. I'd like to see more regulations and prevention requirements as a starter.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:50 AM

51. the important thing is that nothing ever moves you or your position

you never reconsider, you never grasp and you are never shaken.

if you think that a tragedy is bad enough that key people here will be shaken enough to take action or change minds, you will post something inflammatory and glorifying guns...

because, i am sorry to say:

these tragedies bother you less.

than anyone even thinking of imposing a restriction, even a simple restriction on firearms.

that's what it comes down to.

what truly upsets you. this does not upset you as much as even the implied threat to your firearms.

as a person what kind of one does that make you?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #51)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:53 AM

52. None of the laws being proposed anywhere in this country....

...would have prevented this tragedy; this was a deputy without a brain or sense of safety, who would still have had this weapon after all proposed laws passed.


Now prove me wrong with an example.


You can't cure stupid, you can't legislate carelessness and negligence out of existence.




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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #52)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:59 AM

54. again, nothing moves you, you can't even take a breath w/o the NRA talking points

coming out.

you just can't.

they are your priorities.

i am RIGHT when i say that the tragedy bothers you less, is really a distraction to you. what you care about is displayed in how you post.

the dead people, they are impediments to your beliefs about firearms.

i dare say that what will truly bring out your emotions is not something like Sandy Hook, but something done about Sandy Hook --you showed us that earlier this year.

i felt sad for you. at the lack of humanity you displayed.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #54)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:38 PM

82. Creekdog, take your posturing and righteousness elsewhere.

You views do nothing but promote intolerance, animosity and division. And no amount of compassion "superiority" changes that.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #82)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:17 PM

85. as if you'd be posting here if there wasn't a gun issue involved

spare me.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #85)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:38 PM

86. Your arguments are essentially this:

"My morals are more moral than your morals."

Your's is the prime example of where gun-control politics is headed: Moral condemnation of millions of fellow Americans through de-humanization and stigmatization. Is that not your approach? Your "strategy?" Is that not the same stale orthodox prohibition politics of prohibition?

Note: A gun-controller posted a gun-control OP in Latest News, which drew you in like a magnet, so don't -- once again -- use your righteous indignation in hopes that you have made a decent argument or proposal. You haven't, and I don't think you have any intention of that, as noted above.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #86)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 04:02 PM

87. i'm not going to be lectured to by someone who can't find motivation to post on non-gun issues

as for human dignity, let's compare our record of protecting human dignity and freedoms, whether it be healthcare, civil liberties, help for the poor, standing up for women's rights and equality of wages, protecting the environment, providing nutrition and income support to help children and the poor and the list goes on...

you? not so much.

and you know what's worse? i haven't even advocated banning guns.

most of my posts on the subject have simply challenged the idea that guns make us safer, not advocating banning them.

but you have decided everything about me while barely reading what i've posted.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #87)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 04:39 PM

88. Let's DO compare records...

You seem to measure "records" by the quantity of posts on a web site. Well, that goes a LONG way in determining what is wrong with progressive politics: Bona fides via keyboard strikes.

My FIRST demonstration in the streets was in support of United Farm Workers (1967). I also leafleted, wrote LTEs, and contributed to that cause through the turn of the millineum. I supported numerous anti-war efforts -- including anti-war marches, organizing, etc. -- from Vietnam to the (latest) Iraqi war. I also marched in support of Iranian students when the Carter administration was deporting them in retaliation for the 1979 embassy takeover. (I guarantee you that was NOT a comfortable and righteous cause to support!) Oh, amid the dozens of other demonstrations I have been in, 2 involved supporting the legalization of marijuana, which I presume you support. Nothing like having your file updated for that. Along with being present for a reception for Jane Fonda after she was censured by the Texas legislature as being "Hanoi Jane." More infrared cameras in unmarked cars 'cross the street.

As for elections, I campaigned heavily for Sarah Weddington when she ran and won a seat in the Texas house -- before she won her Roe v. Wade decision, handed down in 1973. The ACTIVE, WORKING PROGRESSIVE groups in Austin literally wiped the RW out of our Texas delegation, and replaced a lot of judges (and one sheriff) who supported the 2 yrs-to-life sentences handed down to anyone with ANY amount of pot on them. I have been a member and financially supported: NARAL, outdoor conservations causes, and worker rights. I raised funds for AIDS prevention, and walked in those marches as well.

I started a local labor fund for striking workers to draw from while out of work, supported union organizing for part-time teachers college teachers and university (of Texas) staff, and got an illegal letter of reprimand for such. I also support with $ the local food bank, and to this day I push a coronary by laboring (voluntary) with others to maintain municipal parks on Saturday mornings.

Ever heard of the Save Our Springs Ordinance in Austin? Twenty years ago, I was in the front lines (work & money, again) of getting that passed by referendum. The GOPers are trying now to kill that ordinance so as to allow blow-it-out development over the watershed which feeds a crystal-clear creek right into Austin's downtown.

There's plenty more, including a media-genic sand-bagging of GOP governor Claude Kirk when he visited the University of Florida campus in '67. But all that shoe leather, money, sweat & grime of campaigns, etc. isn't a match for on-line "activism."

Yeah, I sign the on-line petitions & such, for what it's worth. And I occasionally go to other sites in DU (esp. those decrying the isolation and frustration of the "left" by the Democratic establishment over the years). But those are flame-throwers between the 2 "true" Democratic groups, and are of little value. I guess you aren't the least bit interested in why my posts weight heavily that direction, though.

I'll take YOUR word, however, when you claim to be a progressive.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #88)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 04:51 PM

89. so you did all that stuff, yet almost all your posts here are about guns

almost nothing about civil rights, or health care or even abortion rights.

you were judging me by my posts (or what you thought were my posts, but couldn't be bothered to read...) and judging by your posts, you stopped caring about liberal issues sometime shortly after the great society.

or you just happen to be the most amazing liberal/progressive ever RIGHT NOW, you just rarely post about it on this liberal board that you belong to. are you a rare poster and that's why? no. you are a gun poster, almost exclusively.

and are saying that you're a liberal now (hey, Bill Bennett was a liberal in the 1960's!) because your posts here sure don't show it.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #89)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:00 PM

90. That's the trouble with much of DU, too much condemnation of fellow progressives...

And you continue that atmosphere.

The trouble with listing a portion of one's activist record: Someone like yourself cannot have it any other way, so you poke holes in it, "judging" its authenticity, speculating on how "you just happen to be the most amazing liberal-progressive ever RIGHT NOW..." You just cannot have it any other way. You know this is a culture war, and you will fight it as such.

Again, stuff on the keyboard is YOUR measure.

Again, you will not ask me why I post the way I do. You're mind is made up.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #90)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:01 PM

91. you criticized my posts, you even criticized me by suggesting I was anti-woman

should have thought of that beforehand.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #91)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:26 PM

93. No suggestion made, and you know it.

I reserve the right to criticize your posts, and will continue to do so as necessary.

A lot has changed with feminism in the last 40+ years. Those changes go to explaining why so many many millions of women have chosen to arm themselves, which leaves me or anyone else in a quandry as to how a woman showing a gun is some kind of "manhood" thing. A lot of posters make the same kind of statement about guns & "being a man" or some such. Your's was another, as if women didn't exist in your outlook. Maybe you "should have thought of that beforehand." Frankly, all of us need to catch up on what feminism means.

And that includes you.

BTW, William Bennett made his "progressive" stand long after he had gone over: He is widely-believed to have penned the '94 AWB.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #90)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:09 PM

92. if you care about other issues as much as you do the gun issue, where are the posts?

not saying you don't care about those issues as much as guns.

but are you saying you only post on one issue that you care about and you don't feel motivated to weigh in on others --or rarely do?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #92)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 05:58 PM

94. The Innertubes create tunnel vision, I guess...

Instead of:


"not saying you don't care about those issues as much as guns.

but are you saying you only post on one issue that you care about and you don't feel motivated to weigh in on others --or rarely do?"

Why not:

"Why do you predominantly post in the Gungeon?"

Here is my answer to the question that was never asked:

The gun-control issue has hung like an albatross around the Democratic Party for years. Beyond the instant issues of whether the kinds of gun-control proposals I've seen are worth a damn, is the continuing waste of effort on this issue when there are more issues the Democrats (at least the lefty ones) should be, and at one time were, identified with. I see this issue as a thorn in the Party which continues to unnecessarily alienate potential millions of voters, esp. with the increased mean-spirited views toward gun-owners and fellow 2A advocates on this site. You may not like this mainly tactical approach at trying to diminish the impact of a divisive no-win issue, but I think the RKBA group has made just that kind of impact, to the extent that those who want severe controls/bans felt compelled to construct their "Activist" group, which brooks no deviance in their "bi-partisan" push for controls/bans.

Frankly, the Party is in precarious condition with regard any remaining viability of "leftist" politics (meaning anything to the left of HST). Many, many posters have questioned whether or not the Party should be abandoned, or that a 3rd party should be started, or a take-over of the Party should be commenced. I don't know the answer to that one, but I believe that the isolation of "leftist" politics is more vital than ANY one or set set off issues, esp. if there is no viable means to legitimize and communicate those issues through a party structure. Hence Occupy ___________ (did you go to any of those rallies?). I have supported candidates, and will continue to support candidates, who are against my views on 2A; I'm a reasonable man. But frankly, the issue should be dumped before any attempt to reach out to others, many of whom are alienated by the litmus test of gun-control, can have hope of succeeding. That is the main reason why I post in the Guns group.

You may not agree with my reasoning; many don't. But that is why I don't make the rounds to re-charge my basic ideological stands in the groups you mention. Don't you think that most Gungeon regulars support the stands you have on most all the other issues? Have you asked them?

I know my politics, and if anything, they have moved further to the left. Maybe I'm behind the times, but making style points by a shotgun spread over a lot of groups is preaching to the choir. It's a shame that ANY liberal site has, in the eyes of some, sought to create enemies out of solid progs & libs because they don't adhere to a rather recent, paste-on litmus test of "gun-control. Hell, I was well into my activist days before the Party even got around to mentioning "gun control" in its platform (1968).

Incidentally, I will be 65 this May. If I am not hoofing it in as many demonstrations, staying up to make signs, or going to rallies, it may be for more prosaic reasons that post-counts.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:12 PM

8. Why the HELL was the gun loaded . . .

. . . when (a) it was not the officer's service revolver and (b) it was being stored indoors. And also, why was it EVER put within reach of a small child? I grew up in a family that owned many guns -- this was north central PA, where virtually everybody was a hunter. But my father was fanatical (and wisely so) about gun safety (to the point that my siblings and I would get in serious trouble for even pointing a toy gun at another person). Loaded guns were never, and I do mean NEVER, permitted indoors or inside a vehicle. And when they weren't being used, they were stored under lock and key; and the ammunition, I might add, was locked away in a completely separate location.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #8)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 09:06 PM

20. I have read that there are as many accidental gun deaths

As there are murders with guns, the split being largely rural/urban.

I, too, was taught safety. However, with 300 million guns in the country, mistakes will be made even among the most safety conscious. And sometimes, like in this case, those mistakes will be tragic.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:28 PM

21. True enough. n/t

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 12:56 AM

26. Why is this so hard for the gun nuts to see?

I would have absolutely no concern about your father owning firearms. But it sure seems like he is the exception to the rule.

No sane person would leave a tray of rat poison out where kids (or pets) could get into it.

Most people are smart enough to not leave a can of gasoline next to a furnace or wood stove.

Most people understand the concept of seat belts.

Yet we keep seeing examples of the most irresponsible treatment of firearms.

These are not accidents any more than leaving a utility knife in a baby crib is an accident.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #26)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 02:35 AM

34. Perfect.

I can't top what you said. I'm so tired of these awful stories and those who say there's no way to prevent more of them. This accident today did not have to happen!

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #26)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:50 AM

50. Most people who own guns get it. We understand that our weapons are dangerous, and not...

 

...to be left loaded where kids can get them.

But more and more people grow up without the benefit of an experienced adult who can teach gun safety. That's why I believe it should be taught in public schools.

Most people are smart enough to not leave a can of gasoline next to a furnace or wood stove.

My middle school wood shop and metal shop classes included safe use of fire, and how to handle flammable chemicals.

Most people understand the concept of seat belts.

We had a week of Driver Training when I was in high school.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #50)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 11:11 AM

56. Driver education is optional in school, but

You do have to be licensed, you have to pass a knowledge test, you have to pass a proficiency test, your vehicle has to be licenses, and you must carry liability insurance -- before you are allowed to get behind the wheel on your own.

Considering that cars serve a useful purposes, whereas guns are designed only to kill things, it seems like the above list should be the minim set of requirements society would expect from a person who wants to own these things.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #56)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 11:12 AM

57. In most states you have to get a license before you can carry a gun in public - concealed or open.

 

You don't have to get a license to keep a car at home, or to drive it on private property.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #57)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 03:26 PM

67. And therefore you must use a wrecker to move the vehicle

from one property to another.

You can certainly have that gun on your own property if you can guarantee the bullets will never leave your property and you have a licensed, bonded agent deliver the weapon to your property -- and likewise for any time you want to move the weapon to some other property.

That would be equivalent to the responsibility we expect from vehicle owners and operators.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #67)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 05:16 PM

69. If I transport a firearm from my home to a shooting range, it has to be unloaded and cased.

 

I can't have both the firearm and the ammunition easily accessible while I am driving. That's California state law, and it's a reasonable set of restrictions for transporting a weapon for someone who doesn't have a license to carry it loaded. If that's not good enough for you, your irrational fear is not my problem.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #69)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 07:35 PM

71. That is not the law in most of the country

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 08:17 AM

72. Exactly right.

And while it may be true that none of the proposed gun regulations would have prevented this incident, that's only because those proposed regulations don't go far enough.

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Response to crim son (Reply #72)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 10:02 AM

73. One key thing that is NOT being proposed (yet) is liability insurance

Just as we require liability insurance for cars, we should require it for guns. Today we still seem to have the wild West ethic that says if you kill somebody "by accident", there are no consequences. "My bad. Sorry about that. Well, that's how it goes."

Regardless of what the Beltway freaks do, this is going to change over the next 20 years. You will find civil suits having real success in awarding damages for the consequences of irresponsible gun ownership.

But the problem is that most of these people are low-IQ, low income people who don't really have any assets. Their gun may be their most valuable possession. That's where there will be a push to force people to carry liability insurance.

And once the insurance companies are involved, they will be allies in promoting gun safety and they will share the interest in getting guns out of the hands of people who are most irresponsible.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:17 PM

9. disgusting

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:22 PM

10. Pitifully, tragically stupid.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:30 PM

11. I am no longer even surprised by stories like this.

Incidents like this are never an accident but a result of incompetent gun ownership. That fact that the gun owner is a law enforcement official makes it even worse. If the gun was normally stored in a safe, why was it loaded? The officer only has himself to blame for the death of his wife.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:34 PM

12. I always suspect a conspiracy in these "accidental" shotings

"Make it look like an accident"

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Response to tabasco (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 01:24 PM

65. reports are going out of the way to say "complete accident" when story is sketchy

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:36 PM

13. Who cares? It's just another dead human being. We have thousands of them every year......

but don't try to touch our guns......


gun fetishists are pure fucking evil. There is no such thing as a 'responsible gun owner'.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:44 PM

83. There you are: Another extremist prohibitionist. nt

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:54 PM

17. A sad story.

When something like this happens, it is important for us
to find out what happened and how to prevent something
like this happening again.
Was this weapon a revolver or semi-auto?
I would think that a four year old hand doesn't have the size
and strength to operate a revolver in double action mode.
I assume the same for a double action semi-auto.
Did this handgun have its hammer pulled back and
required only to squeeze the trigger to fire it?
There are many unanswered questions to this story.

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Response to Doc_Technical (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:58 PM

19. A loaded gun was in reach of a child.

The other stuff might be technically interesting, but that one fact is what really matters.

I guess if you could design guns to be impossible to shoot for someone with only the strength of a four year old ... but then what about a 9 year old? Or a mentally challenged or mentally disturbed 16 year old? Where would the line be?

Why not just keep guns out of reach of kids?

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Response to MH1 (Reply #19)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 12:58 AM

27. Forget the baby. Why was this idiot showing off a loaded gun

to his pal. That alone is stupid and completely irresponsible. What part of "remove the bullets" is so damned hard for these morons to understand?

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Response to Doc_Technical (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:37 PM

23. Probably a Glock

Like a 1911 loaded but not locked, having a loaded Glock at home with kids is like inviting the debbil to dinner. Shit WILL happen.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:32 PM

22. This is a problem with Automatics, note it was a NON-Service pistol that was fired.

Old Fashioned Revolvers were safer, require more pull on the trigger then most four year olds can do. I suspect this is an Automatic, most service automatic duplicate revolvers

Local Story about the incident:
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130408/NEWS03/304080039/Wife-deputy-shot-killed-Wilson-County-accident?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE&nclick_check=1

The Glock, an automatic pistol a lot of Police Department have adopted, have a revolver type trigger, requiring more power then in other automatics to work the trigger. Please note this accident did NOT involve a service issued weapon so I suspect it is an automatic, but not a Glock:

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/at/glock-e.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock

The factory-standard two-stage trigger has a trigger travel of 12.5 mm (0.49 in) and is rated at 25 N (5.6 lbf), but by using a modified connector it can be increased to 35 N (7.9 lbf) or lowered to 20 N (4.5 lbf). In response to a request made by American law enforcement agencies for a two-stage trigger with increased trigger pull, Glock introduced the NY1 (New York) trigger module, which features a flat spring in a plastic housing that replaces the trigger bar's standard coil spring. This trigger modification is available in two versions: NY1 and NY2 that are rated at 25 N (5.6 lbf) to 40 N (9.0 lbf) and 32 N (7.2 lbf) to 50 N (11.2 lbf) respectively, which require approximately 20 N (4.5 lbf) to 30 N (6.7 lbf) of force to disengage the safeties and another 10 N (2.2 lbf) to 20 N (4.5 lbf) in the second stage to fire a shot.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 12:46 AM

25. Just Clarifying

Semi automatic. . .

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 11:30 PM

24. if a trained deputy can get careless with a firearm, more training is not going to negate

the careless violence of having more and more guns out there

so much for the nra me-me of 'more training' being an incredible answer to many firearm deaths.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #24)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 01:00 AM

28. And my state (Indiana) is now advancing a law that will require

a LOADED gun in every school.

What could possibly go wrong?

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 01:47 AM

29. There seems to be a 'who cares it was a freak accident' attitude every time this happens.

The comments on the News Channel 5 Nashville reflect this. Mankind has sought news ways to kill itself ever since it walked out of the caves. New improved guns and other weapons and killing is apparently just 'how it is'. I've had guns pointed at me and threatened but was able to not be killed even though I was unarmed. It's amazing how that works. The thought of existing peacefully as human beings is apparently long gone never to be realized. Idealistic bliss is apparently only possible in Mankind's religious myths and can only be considered as a dream of fools.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 03:54 AM

36. He just HAD to show off his gun to his kin.

I guess the thrill of the gun porn made him swoon so much that he lost the presence of mind to put the gun away.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 05:29 AM

37. issue is ... chambered round ...

police should not be allowed
to chamber a round until needed,
or they should go back to revolvers.

getting rid of Glocks, would be a step
in the right direction

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Response to quadrature (Reply #37)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:36 AM

41. The ISSUES are: loaded weapon, chambered round, safety off,

and treating said weapon like a toy, to be passed around and admired.

mikey_the_rat

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 09:13 AM

42. The weapon belonged to a school resource officer. Go, NRA.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 09:32 AM

44. Another responsible gun owner...

...until he wasn't.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 09:55 AM

45. There is absolutely nothing accidental

about a 4 year old shooting a gun!

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:01 AM

46. Guns should be no where near kids

People get complacent about all sorts of things, and it seems this person was.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:14 AM

47. the story is unbelievable and smells to the heavens, methinks

The deputy had to move the gun out of the way to get a rifle he wanted to show to a family member, so he puts the (loaded) gun on a bed and a 4 y.o. (apparently not the deputy's kid) just runs into the bedrm and grabs the gun without the deputy or his wife seeing this/knowing? WTF? If I moved a loaded gun onto a bed with kids running around the house, I would be watching it like a hawk, but this deputy and his wife are so oblivious as to not even notice when a small kid runs into the bedroom and grabs it.

Call me suspicious but this story smells.

Another thing: if the kid is not the deputy's and dead wife's child, it is doubtful any kid would run into an unfamiliar bedroom and grab ANYthing off a bed. Most kids have a certain degree of natural shyness when they're not in their own space.

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Response to wordpix (Reply #47)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:54 AM

53. The 4 year old came into the bedroom with the wife

And it doesn't take long for a kid who probably likes to play with toy guns to pick one up and shoot it.

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #53)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 12:05 PM

61. the wife didn't notice? and the deputy left gun on bed with 4 y.o. near bedrm?

anyhow, I still think it smells.

Another possibility: deputy shoots wife in an altercation and makes up story about 4 y.o. who was visiting. Who are other witnesses besides (allegedly) the 4 y.o.?

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Response to wordpix (Reply #61)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 12:25 PM

63. The other witness is the guy he was showing it to, I think

I kind of agree that there's some possibility this story is b.s., but I don't think it's all that uncredible. Unless this guy pre-planned his wife's murder with the other guy, how likely is it that he would take the 'opportunity' to shoot her when there was another witness present? And if they planned it, did they plan the detail of having the four year old come into the room so they could pin it on the kid?

So I think the alternative scenario is no more believable than the story as told. It will be up to homicide detectives, I think. And in any case there SHOULD be jail time involved - manslaughter at least. Although I suspect there won't be.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #63)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 01:21 PM

64. "within seconds of Fanning placing the gun on the bed, the toddler picked it up" - IOW,

the 4 y.o. was already in the room when Fanning put loaded gun on bed and he wasn't watching at all?

Neither the newscast nor the article says the other family member witnessed the shooting.

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Response to wordpix (Reply #64)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 01:47 PM

66. I see nothing about another witness, just that Fanning was showing the gun off

Alternate hypothesis:

Fanning goes to bedroom with loaded gun to shoot wife AFTER he shows off rifle to relative, who leaves the locked gun-safe room. Fanning says the kid did it accidentally, knowing the kid won't get in trouble. Fanning gets off with manslaughter charge instead of murder in the first degree.

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Response to wordpix (Reply #61)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:42 PM

74. I'm with you.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:24 AM

48. K&R

 

I was wondering about the Good Guy-Bad Guy thing myself

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 11:17 AM

58. Similar shooting in NJ by a 4 year old

Charge the parents!

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 11:21 AM

60. Require liability insurance for gun owners.

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Response to mac56 (Reply #60)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 03:35 PM

68. Ok...

...what would that do in this case?

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 12:25 PM

62. Thank goodness this family had a gun in the house to keep everyone safer!

Just imagine what could have happened if there hadn't been a gun in the house.



*Another* terrible accident brought to you by the NRA and its supporters. Without a gun, Josephine Fanning would have likely enjoyed the cookout and gone home to live her life. Sad that the right to bear arms overrides the right to life in this country.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 05:29 PM

70. Quit harrassing this law-abiding gun owner!

And an officer of the peace, no less! Have you no shame?

It's not HIS fault that he doesn't have the minimal degree of foresight to always keep guns out of reach of children. As a matter of fact, this murdering hoodlum of a child should be prosecuted as an adult to the full extent of the law.

Guns don't kill people, toddlers do.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:12 PM

75. The child shooting the gun was the only accident.

Fanning made several novice gun mistakes, was he drunk aswell?

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:22 PM

76. Someone, some gun advocate, please explain to me why the gun was loaded. nt

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:28 PM

78. This deputy was the type of fool surveyed in the study floated yesterday

where LEOs said that were against gun control laws.

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