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Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:01 PM

Gerry Adams says Thatcher caused "great suffering" in Ireland

Source: Reuters

Former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher caused "great suffering" in Ireland and her policies there ultimately failed, Irish republican leader Gerry Adams said on Monday.

Thatcher has long been a figure of hate for nationalists in Northern Ireland for her uncompromising policies during her 11 years in office between 1979 and 1990, which saw the death of 10 prisoners in a hunger strike.

Supporters say her hard line was inevitable after Irish Republican militants killed close Thatcher ally Airey Neave in a 1979 car bomb attack and the IRA came close to killing her in a bomb at the Conservative party conference in Brighton in 1984.

Adams, who acted as the public face of the IRA (Irish Republican Army) for much of its three-decade guerrilla war against British rule in Northern Ireland, said Thatcher's Irish policy failed miserably and delayed the achievement of peace in 1998.




Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-britain-thatcher-adams-idUSBRE9370MT20130408





If any Irishman has the right to say this, it is indeed Mr. Adams. He suffered badly at her hands having been locked up in the H block prison for too many years. Hang in there Gerry, she's gone now and she cannot ever do harm to you or the Irish people again.

110 replies, 8270 views

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Arrow 110 replies Author Time Post
Reply Gerry Adams says Thatcher caused "great suffering" in Ireland (Original post)
CountAllVotes Apr 2013 OP
Crepuscular Apr 2013 #1
CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #3
Crepuscular Apr 2013 #11
KatyMan Apr 2013 #20
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #32
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #36
CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #48
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #93
tabasco Apr 2013 #71
KatyMan Apr 2013 #74
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #78
KatyMan Apr 2013 #81
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #76
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #94
Crepuscular Apr 2013 #44
KatyMan Apr 2013 #75
Crepuscular Apr 2013 #85
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #95
KatyMan Apr 2013 #107
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #109
Ken Burch Apr 2013 #24
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #34
Crepuscular Apr 2013 #49
Scootaloo Apr 2013 #59
Ken Burch Apr 2013 #63
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #70
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #28
Crepuscular Apr 2013 #52
Ken Burch Apr 2013 #64
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #73
tabasco Apr 2013 #72
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #80
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #110
KatyMan Apr 2013 #19
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #29
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #39
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #56
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #58
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #60
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #65
KatyMan Apr 2013 #79
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #82
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #96
tblue Apr 2013 #89
Ken Burch Apr 2013 #21
KatyMan Apr 2013 #23
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #27
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #30
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #38
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #42
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #45
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #54
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #51
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #57
Manifestor_of_Light Apr 2013 #97
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #98
Manifestor_of_Light Apr 2013 #99
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #100
CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #53
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #68
FunkyLeprechaun Apr 2013 #101
abelenkpe Apr 2013 #83
CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #84
Posteritatis Apr 2013 #31
Ken Burch Apr 2013 #66
Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #2
CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #4
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #46
RetroLounge Apr 2013 #5
devilgrrl Apr 2013 #6
Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #8
devilgrrl Apr 2013 #10
Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #12
devilgrrl Apr 2013 #13
Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #15
devilgrrl Apr 2013 #16
Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #17
devilgrrl Apr 2013 #18
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #41
Posteritatis Apr 2013 #33
devilgrrl Apr 2013 #35
Posteritatis Apr 2013 #37
devilgrrl Apr 2013 #47
ForgoTheConsequence Apr 2013 #14
JustAnotherGen Apr 2013 #9
maryellen99 Apr 2013 #7
Ken Burch Apr 2013 #25
Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #26
Ken Burch Apr 2013 #67
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #40
life long demo Apr 2013 #22
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #43
Nihil Apr 2013 #106
IrishAyes Apr 2013 #108
PatrynXX Apr 2013 #50
CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #55
CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #86
riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #61
dflprincess Apr 2013 #88
Joey Liberal Apr 2013 #62
Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #87
RetroLounge Apr 2013 #90
Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #91
RetroLounge Apr 2013 #92
tabasco Apr 2013 #69
Deep13 Apr 2013 #77
DMacTX Apr 2013 #102
Nihil Apr 2013 #105
magellan Apr 2013 #103
Nihil Apr 2013 #104

Response to CountAllVotes (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:13 PM

1. Not exactly

like the IRA didn't have the blood of some innocents on their hands, also. Maybe a look in the mirror would be worthwhile......and I say that as someone of Irish descent.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:28 PM

3. The IRA is the oldest political party in Ireland

And Mr. Adams happens to be the head of it now. Good for him is what I have to say about it. Ireland needs him and the Irish people need him for he is a survivor and he didn't let this old b*tch finish him off no matter how hard she tried.

As for the IRA, they are a legitimate political party and if you don't like it, well I suggest that you never bother to visit the old country.

I've got some damn sight hardy Irish blood in myself too, something I was raised to be proud of and something I have never been ashamed of and that is being an Irish Catholic, something that the late Thatcher hated even more than Gerry Adams IMO. What a bigoted old b*tch.

She said nothing as those men were starving in the H Block prison and did nothing about it either. Perhaps she'll rot in hell for it dare I suggest?

Men like Mr. Adams are fighters and he is a worker and he has done good for many in Ireland whether Maggie the Thatcher liked it or not!



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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:15 PM

11. the relative good that Mr. Adams and the IRA did is highly debatable.

He's no Ghandi or Martin Luther King, that's for sure.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:39 PM

20. well, it's not very debatable

if you happen to be Irish.

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Response to KatyMan (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:44 PM

32. I'm Irish

And I think Adams is a colossal asshole.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #32)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:49 PM

36. Then you can go back to merrye olde England and kiss THEIR arses all you like

Unless you'd rather go to a crowded Dublin pub some night and say that. Either would suit me fine.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #36)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:23 PM

48. ...





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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #36)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 03:04 AM

93. Seriously?

I know many Irish people who don't like him. Including people in Dublin and Cork.

You have no clue about Irish politics, none.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #32)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:24 PM

71. And I'm George Washington Jesus Christ

Let me guess, you're a descendant of a British invader who calls himself "Irish."

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Response to tabasco (Reply #71)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:27 PM

74. I believe the term is

West Brits

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Response to KatyMan (Reply #74)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:33 PM

78. That's a good one!

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #78)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:42 PM

81. Yep,

Learned it from the children of the lovely village of Slane, when we lived there.

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Response to tabasco (Reply #71)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:31 PM

76. And I'll bet

... her relatives were BA (British Army). She certainly shows that British arrogance and hubris.

They can't stand getting whipped by the great unwashed to the south, otherwise known as Free Ireland.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #76)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 03:11 AM

94. When the Brits crashed in Ireland in WWII

They were given cups of tea and blankets and sent on their way to Belfast. When the Germans did the same, the Irish arrested them.

You really are a complete nincompoop.

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Response to KatyMan (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:15 PM

44. Well

except for the Irish that were being kneecapped by the IRA........or the ones that were protestant.......or the ones who felt that the campaign of terrorism waged by the IRA simply prevented a political solution that would have ended the troubles much sooner. Except for those Irish, you're probably right.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #44)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:31 PM

75. How about the Irish

that were systematically discriminated against and oppressed? There are many more victims of English oppression than IRA violence. I do not condone the violence, but it's there. Have you considered all the Irish who had to leave Ireland? The English have done themselves no favors at all in their treatment and/or policies regarding the six stolen counties.

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Response to KatyMan (Reply #75)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 09:09 PM

85. I think that you're mistaken

if you think I'm an apologist for the English treatment of Ireland over the last 8 centuries or so, that's not the case. Nor am I an apologist for Thatcher but I'm also not a fan of Gerry Adams and the terrorist tactics that the IRA employed during the troubles and I thought that Adams commentary today about Thatcher somewhat hypocritical, given the amount of blood that's permanently etched on his hands.

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Response to KatyMan (Reply #75)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 03:21 AM

95. Correction

Protestant, not English oppression.

There are plenty of people of Irish catholic descent who left the north for England because of discrimination against Catholics in NI. My grandfather was advised to move to England if he wanted better job opportunities. They didn't find the rampant discrimination in England like they did in Northern Ireland.

You have no clue of Irish politics.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #95)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 07:52 AM

107. You are rude

and condescending. I have as good a grasp on Irish history as you do, we just seem to have different takes. And for the record, I have plenty of "clues".

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Response to KatyMan (Reply #107)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 09:31 AM

109. No, you really don't have a clue

And I was called far more insulting things in this thread.

Btw it wasn't the British who wanted to keep onto Northern Ireland it was Eamon de Valera wanting to give up the majorly Protestant North so his election chances looked good in the Republic. Michael Collins actually sided with that, even if it pissed off the IRB.

Which I find it ironic when I saw posts proudly claiming to have relatives who fought alongside Collins.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:02 PM

24. The world forever lost the right to expect ANYONE in Northern Ireland to be Gandhi or MLK

The day Bloody Sunday happened.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #24)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:46 PM

34. Actually the bloody Brits lost that right

over 800 years ago when they invaded. And the list of their war crimes and attempted genocide ever since stinks to high heaven. Irish children were rounded up to serve as plantation slaves in British colonies. And I've seen the official document regarding their continued plans for genocide. It trumpets 'At last we shall be free of the scourge of the Irish in Ireland!'

Well golly gee, what's not to love about that?

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #24)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:30 PM

49. Really?

Not too familiar with some of the abuses that occurred in India by the British Crown, huh? You might want to read up on the aftermath of the Sepoy mutiny. Bloody Sunday pales in comparison, yet Ghandi still went the nonviolance route.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #49)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:01 PM

59. And for that, Gandhi is exceptional, not factory standard.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #49)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:10 PM

63. Gandhi was a wonderfully moral man, and I admire his commitment to nonviolence.

But no one had the right to DEMAND that Gandhi and the Indian liberation movement be nonviolent, especially after such events as the Amritsar Massacre.

Nonviolence is heroic and beautiful...and it's solely up to the oppressed whether they choose it as a tactic or not. No one who is even allied to the oppressor has the right to pass judgment on the resistance tactics of the oppressed.

It didn't morally invalidate the South African liberation struggle, for example, that the oppressed there felt it necessary to choose tactics other than nonviolence...and no one was entitled to argue that the apartheid regime should be kept in power and given aid and comfort by the international community UNTIL the black majority chose tactics said international community approved of.

Nonviolence could never have worked in South Africa after Sharpeville, anyway. Once too much innocent blood has been spilled, nonviolence is probably naive and hopeless.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #63)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:22 PM

70. Gandhi

also advised the U.S. not to resist Nazi Germany either. When reminded that would've resulted in America's destruction, Gandhi agreed, but claimed we would've ascended to a higher plane in the afterlife as a result of nonresistance. So I don't exactly take him as the wisest adviser for achieving peace and reunification in Ireland. After 800 years of the British attempts at genocide, Gerry Adams is much better suited for the job.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:30 PM

28. Apples and oranges

The times and circumstances were different. The IRA only did what it had to do to secure freedom, safety and peace in a nation which never did belong to its British invaders.

Gerry Adams and Martin 'Watch Your Kneecaps' McGuiness are national heroes on the order of all who fought in our own war for independence. Or do you think that's a blessing best denied others?

See my post #27 in reply to your post #1.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #28)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:32 PM

52. The IRA

did what it chose to do, not necessarily what it had to do. Other former colonies managed to accomplish similar results without employing the terrorist tactics that the IRA decided to employ.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #52)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:13 PM

64. Do you honestly think that anything close to the Good Friday Agreement could ever have happened

if the IRA had chosen other tactics? Wouldn't the British simply have inflicted Bloody Sunday after Bloody Sunday after Bloody Sunday without ever giving a flying fcuk what the world thought?

Didn't Bloody Sunday prove, once and for all, that the British government was never ever going to grow a soul regarding the Six Counties?

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #64)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:27 PM

73. To anyone with a soul

That is what it proved. But then they've been bloodying Sunday over 800 years, so we don't lack for historical proof.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #52)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:27 PM

72. And the motherfuckers called Americans "cowards and terrorists"

for shooting from behind trees and conducting ambushes.

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Response to tabasco (Reply #72)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:38 PM

80. Michael Collins

was always a fast learner. And they called him the worst names of all. As for as I'm concerned, if I pass the Collins/Adams test, I don't need to worry what Funky thinks. I know she couldn't pass muster where it counts.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #80)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 09:58 AM

110. Collins sided with de Valera

In giving up Northern Ireland in order to better their political chances.

You knew that, right?

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:37 PM

19. Not exactly...

Sinn Fein is the oldest political party in Ireland. The IRA is a military organization

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Response to KatyMan (Reply #19)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:40 PM

29. It may well have been

a mere slip of the tongue. I'm sure KM actually knows the difference, although sadly too many other Americans don't.

Funny thing: when individual retirement accounts first picked up speed in this country, I was walking along a NYC street minding my own business for once, and when I turned a corner I suddenly found myself face to face with a huge banner proclaiming 'I R A'. It was pure reflex that made me jump back and hug the nearest building. Now someone else that might've been out of place; in my world it was perfectly understandable, even though my relatives always sent money back home for the cause. Until the day he died, my uncle sent $500 every month like clockwork.

So anything that's said by anyone against the last best hope Ireland has for peace and reunification always raises my hackles. I'm not speaking to you, but to others who need to know. Those are my people, wherever they might be.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:56 PM

39. You're not REALLY Irish

I have had Irish Catholic relatives who were murdered by the IRA. One in Omagh that I recently discovered, she was a devout Catholic and she was murdered by the IRA.

I have to agree though, Thatcher supported jailing suspected IRA terrorists (many were jailed just because they knew someone who in turn knew someone who was in the IRA) without any trial and that was truly terrible. I wish she had done differently there. If you look at Bloody Sunday, they planted guns on some of the Bloody Sunday victims to try to support the claim that they shot in defense. I understand what Thatcher's mindset was at the moment- her friends, the Queen's cousin, etc were being blown up by the IRA and it's hard not to take a somewhat sympathetic look at the hunger strikers with that sort of background. Like Apartheid, I wish Thatcher had approached the Hunger Strike a bit differently (Bobby Sands was an elected MP for goodness sake).

BTW It's not IRA it's Sinn Fein. Although Sinn Fein is headed by people who were/are associated with the IRA, Sinn Fein doesn't represent the IRA.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #39)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:42 PM

56. Oh, I beg your royal pardon!

Please explain that to Adams and McGuiness.

I'm glad Gerry Adams didn't check with you first before he went on his latest fundraising tour. Next thing we know, you'll be telling him he's not Irish either, for some stupid reason. His opinion is what counts to me and mine, not yours. And what makes you think you have the bully pulpit on our eligibility to wear the green anyway? Sounds like damned Brit troll arrogance to me.

Does it chafe that you don't get to decide these matters? Or could orange or black and tan be your favorite colors?

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #56)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:49 PM

58. N/S

It's McGuinness.

Learn to spell right.

If you're an ardent IRA supporter- at least spell McGuinness right.

Even McGuinness himself has put the past behind him and is working in a coalition with Robinson and has met the Queen herself.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #58)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:03 PM

60. I'm dyslexic as hell

and it affects my speling. And typng 2. So sory. Could your highness please forgive me?

I'll tell you what qualifies us as Irish - my grandfather and great grandfather fought with Michael Collins, and that pretty much settles it for me. When you can righteously make that claim, come and keep trying to pee higher on my family tree than you can reach. I'll show you a portrait of 5 of the Apostles on my living room wall - if you can make it past the dogs wearing your orange cap and black and tan uniform.

Now, I've wasted too much time on you already. This is my last message to you. Go take a long walk on a short pier. I'm going out in the yard now to skip rope to my favorite jingle:

Up the long ladder
Down the short rope
To hell with King Billy
And God save the pope

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #60)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:14 PM

65. So?

Your views aren't representative of Ireland/Northern Ireland today.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #39)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:35 PM

79. well,

I have a passport that says I'm Irish. What about you?

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Response to KatyMan (Reply #79)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:49 PM

82. Doesn't matter what her passport says

If she's kissed British arse, as she clearly has, she's disqualified herself, especially from passing judgment on another's identity. Pay her no mind.

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Response to KatyMan (Reply #79)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 03:28 AM

96. Me too

I have three in fact, Irish, British and American.

I highly suggest you take and Irish history course. The complete ignorance of Irish politics and current history is stunning in this thread. It's a blind hatred of Britain and ardent praise of the IRA.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 11:18 PM

89. I don't have a drop of Irish blood in me

but I am an Irish nationalist. I've read a lot about what England has done to the Irish over the years and it is almost too awful to conceive. I can't condone the IRA's violence, but I sure can understand what provoked it. I really wish more people knew about it before they opined about the IRA, taking the British perspective as the only truth.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:49 PM

21. What the IRA did doesn't justify what Thatcher did.

And the "the Troubles" might never have dominated the Seventies, Eighties and Nineties if the Tory government she was a minister in in 1972 hadn't aided and abetted the crushing of the nonviolent Civil Rights Movement in the Bloody Sunday massacre.

The Tories essentially created the sectarian divide in the first place, by following that syphilitic cnut Randolph Churchill's admonition to play "the Orange card" in the late 1890's, rather than do what they should have done and accepted Irish Home Rule. Protestants and Catholics weren't always divided by "religion", and the Conservative Party has no right to act as if they played no role in creating the division and can't understand what all the bother is about.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #21)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:55 PM

23. +1

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:20 PM

27. Do you think invaders and occupiers

quickly leave at the first polite request to vacate? Not that I've ever seen.

Unless you want all former British dominions (including the U.S.) returned to them, I suggest you consider allowing the Irish the same means to free themselves as our own patriots required.

The Irish have never invaded a land for imperialist reasons; the only reason the IRA brought the war for independence to England's shores was to convince the British to get the hell out of a country that doesn't belong to anybody but the Irish!

I'm glad Margaret Thatcher the Milk Snatcher is gone. Don't expect the least bit of sympathy from me for any of their rulers. Royal, my arse! They're bloody thieves. Lizzie the Hun had better turn loose too.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:43 PM

30. +1

And I'm Irish and I have family that live in Northern Ireland. I consider Adams a terrorist and I'm a lapsed Irish Catholic. I have Catholic relatives who were murdered by the IRA just because they happened to be with Protestant friends etc in Belfast.

My aunt (Protestant) worked in the H-blocks in the kitchen and met Bobby Sands and the other hunger strikers.

People who were jailed JUST because they had IRA links, and no trail at all. That's all I agree with Adams on.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #30)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:56 PM

38. If you had suffered

As much as the rest of us did, then you'd likely sing a different tune. People who prefer to serve as British footstools don't deserve the right to call themselves Irish.

God bless Michael Collins, Gerry Adams, Martin McGuiness, Bobby Sands and all the other true Irish patriots throughout history.

Remember Bloody Sunday.

Free Ireland! (the official Sinn Fein slogan, btw)

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #38)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:04 PM

42. I have

My relatives were murdered by the IRA and they were Catholics! One was an Omagh victim.

My mum and dad went to Queen's with Bernadette Devlin, My mom and dad were filmed by Ian Paisley to try to show the government what troublemakers they were, my protestant aunt met Bobby Sands and she thought he was a nice man.

They were REALLY in the thick of the Troubles and you're saying that I'm a British footstool? LOL. Frankly, I have to say that your post sounds like someone that either hasn't lived in Ireland for a long time or never set foot in Ireland.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #42)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:17 PM

45. Betcha my shamrock

can beat up your shamrock.

And, btw, you sound like someone with Stockholm Syndrome in relation to the bloody Brits. You're either part of the solution or part of the problem, and I suspect the latter.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #45)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:39 PM

54. N/S

I have an Irish name (Sinéad) and most of my family do too (Deirdre, Áine, Fionnuala, Roisin among others). I was discriminated against as a little girl for having an Irish name in the north of County Down and I was only visiting relatives (I was born in America but I lived on and off in Northern Ireland).

We have had people murdered by the IRA. Especially one, Ronan Kerr, just because he wanted to work alongside Protestants in an integrated police station. The Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland are SICK of the violence (they called the people who protested against the flag, idiots).

I can see why "Hiberniores Hibernis ipsis" fit people like you- very very proud of the heritage but not setting foot in the country itself. Northern Ireland is embracing St. Paddy's Day in a big way and slowly starting to reject the Orange Order (thank goodness, they are struggling to get people to visit during the 12th of July parades). Even the Queen has come into the Republic and spoken Gaelic herself and shook the hand of Martin McGuinness. A lot of Catholics (including me, and I'm lapsed) take advantage of being of Northern Irish stock- embracing both British and Irish citizenship (Rory McIllroy refuses to compete for the GBR OR the Irish team because he considers himself both and I'm the same, I'm British AND Irish with American citizenship to boot).

You're talking out of your arse here, "Irish"Ayes.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #42)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:31 PM

51. Read my profile

I'm only second gen Irish American, of pure Irish descent, and we all return as often as possible to keep in touch with close relatives still living there. More importantly, we put our money (sometimes more than we can easily afford) where our mouth is. So if you want to kiss Brit arse and question my own greenness, go right ahead.

Better yet, let me invite you to take up that charge with any of us. It's easy for you to blow smoke on the internet. Maybe not quite so convenient in Dublin.

God bless Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams! to you, Ms. Funky.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #51)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:46 PM

57. I'm 1st generation Irish American

I have relatives still there. In fact I live there on and off. And I live in England, with quite a few Irish people living in the mainland (most of the Beatles (born in Liverpool) are of Irish heritage, minus Ringo Starr, and one of those Irish heritage Beatles is my cousin). If you knew any better, the Irish Catholics from NI tended to come to England/Wales for job opportunities because they were discriminated against in Northern Ireland due to their religion. There were better opportunities for them outside the UK.

Unless you're visiting the deep south of the Republic, I really have to tell you that we're SICK of the IRA and the Orange Order and many want the Troubles behind them. A lot of people just look at you as if you're droll.

You're just stuck in the past.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #57)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 03:42 AM

97. Like maybe this one?

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Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #97)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 03:55 AM

98. It's McCartney

Lennon and McCartney have Irish heritage. Not sure about Harrison, but its likely. Starr doesn't have Irish heritage as far as I know.

If you go around England, there are plenty of Irish bars here. Temple Bar in Norwich, etc, because Irish Catholics came to England and Wales during the troubles for better job opportunities and one such city that has a concentration on Irish heritage people is none other than Liverpool. I recently discovered that I have A LOT of relatives in Liverpool.

Irish politics and current affairs are interesting.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #98)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 04:03 AM

99. Interesting.

I'm descended from some of those Protestant oppressors.

English on Dad's side (which may well have come from Ireland first, I don't know) and Scots-Irish on Mom's side (full of drunken Scotsmen and Scotswomen all the way back to the Stuart clan). I have a book that traces all that.

last names of those from 3 generations back: Moodey, Gray, Cone (New England branch), McEachern, Cain, Greer (Southern branch).

IOW, I'm really ethnically white bread.

No gingers either!!


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Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #99)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 04:47 AM

100. My dad is Protestant and my mom is Catholic

Yet my dad is the redheaded one! My mom's side of the family is Black Irish. My mom and dad got married in the early 70s but couldn't do so in Ireland at all due to their religions so they got married abroad.

A lot of my relatives can be traced to Scotland, especially my Protestant relatives, on both sides (MacLamont, Coulter, to name a few). My Catholic granddad said there's a lore that his side of the family is descended from people who were involved in the Spanish Armada due to the dark hair, green eyes, and olive complexion that side of the family had (I didn't inherit that! I inherited my dad's looks, fair hair and freckles).

When my mom and dad got married, they lost a lot of friends because of their mixed marriage (it's nothing new, my mom's father was Catholic and her mother was Protestant, his entire family shunned her). Nowadays, as they've moved back to NI, people couldn't give a toss. I often go to Catholic friendly areas, near where the Mourne Seafood Bar is and Falls Road in Belfast. The Protestants, especially on Shankill Road, seem very bitter and stuck in the past but that's slowly dissipating, as seen in this year's St Paddy's day parade in Downpatrick.

It's a beautiful country and people are working to shake the past off them, including shunning the IRA. Gerry Adams left Northern Ireland politics to pursue politics in the Republic but he's not as popular as he thought he would be in the Republic. Sinn Fein has completely denounced the IRA (McGuinness used to be IRA and he now doesn't like the IRA). My mom and I were agape when we saw the picture of the Queen shaking McGuinness's hand. My grandfather, the Catholic one, knew the Queen's cousin Lord Mountbatten, who was assassinated by the IRA (and Mountbatten LOVED Ireland and everyone, including the Catholics who lived near him, loved him too).

I've had relatives who were killed by both the British Army/Orange Order and the IRA. The IRA's bombs were indiscriminate, they killed people, regardless of what religion they were (they even murdered Ronan Kerr, a Catholic policeman, for working alongside Protestants). My mom and dad's university friends were murdered (the IRA regularly targeted Queen's at the end of the year), my dad was a doctor at the Royal Victoria Hospital and often saw the result of IRA bombs, my mom survived the Bloody Friday attack (she was in Donegal Quay). I felt terrified after Omagh happened (I was shopping in Bangor when it happened and we evacuated the area because we didn't know whether the IRA was targeting just the one town or multiple towns).

I'm really shocked and appalled to see posters on here embracing the IRA ideology and assuming a whole lot about Ireland/Northern Ireland which isn't true.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #38)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:33 PM

53. Ireland for the Irish

A few years ago by brother-in-law was working in the fields on their farm in Ireland and found his late father's pipe, a pipe that he had carved. He died a tragic death in the late 1930s leaving behind a large family and a widow.

Just when the family had thought they'd never find anything else about him, his pipe was found and on it he has carved these words, IRELAND FOR THE IRISH.

This man literally lived and died by those words. He was yet another true forgotten patriot almost. Forgotten by all except his ancestors.

I find it amazing they survived the brutality of the English for so many years. That is because they were true fighters and gave their lives for their families because they had no real choice other than succumb to their desires, the last intention they ever had.

Sad as hell no doubt and no, we never forget, never.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #53)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:13 PM

68. Apparently you should also

... remember to check in with Funky for instructions since she thinks she's the only person who can validate what's Irish. She might disapprove of long memories. Oh, and be sure to beg her to stamp your passport too. Otherwise it isn't kosher, and she might not let you deplane in 'her' country.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #68)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 05:00 AM

101. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

n/t

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #53)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:53 PM

83. Awwww, Where in Ireland?

My hubby is from Clash It's near Tralee? Crazy small place...



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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #83)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 09:03 PM

84. Co. Galway

not far from an small oyster farm region called Oranmore.

I've only passed through the area myself many years ago via train.

It was silent and bleak. This was in 1983 when I was single and traveling around at that time in my life luckily and the punt was almost dead even w/the dollar at that time. Of course the punt is no longer in existence and now they have the Euro like it or not.

I'm glad I went there at that time. No hassles, no TSA, no B.S.!!!!!!



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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:43 PM

31. "This guy was an ass" and "this other guy was an ass" are never mutually exclusive. (nt)

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:16 PM

66. What the IRA did was often horrible(there was no excuse for the "soft targets" campaign in England)

and I don't approve of the blowing up of pubs simply because they were in Unionist/Loyalist neighborhoods...but don't we need to admit that everything the British did in the Six Counties was equally evil to the worst actions of the IRA?

The British were NEVER in that area after 1969 with any positive intent.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:26 PM

2. Right, because the IRA were so pleasant and reasonable.


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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:34 PM

4. Remember Bobby Sands!





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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:19 PM

46. Thank you for a beautiful memorial

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:42 PM

5. Is that Billy Bragg's mansion?

Is this all you do, post picture in response to that old right-wing union-busting, bigoted, evil colostomy-bag of a woman dying?

Have you ever had a progressive thought in your life?



RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #5)



Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #8)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:20 PM

12. How about legalizing pot?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #12)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:25 PM

15. OK. I've got it. Opposing the death penalty.

Puts me squarely to the left of Obama on this issue.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1094722

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #15)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #16)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:32 PM

17. OK, here's one more, then that's it because this is getting kind of boring.

Supporting marriage equality way before Obama did:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=525398

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #17)


Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:00 PM

41. You're getting bored

Because you're losing. Boo hoo.

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Response to devilgrrl (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:45 PM

33. Wait, wait. Being in favor of that's somehow a conservative thing now? (nt)

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #33)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #35)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:51 PM

37. Ah; I parsed that as your thinking it was entirely conservative and got confused. (nt)

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #37)


Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #12)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:23 PM

14. Plenty of pot smoking Republicans.

You could just as easily be a Rand Paul supporting "libertarian".

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Response to devilgrrl (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:58 PM

9. +1

eom

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #5)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:50 PM

7. that's the hotel the IRA bombed in Brighton

That was an assassination attempt on thatcher. She was staying there for a govt leadership conference.

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Response to maryellen99 (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:05 PM

25. No one should be subjected to a violent death.

That said, it would have been sickening and hypocritical for anyone to have mourned had the attempt succeeded. Thatcher and her mob would simply have reaped what they had sewed.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #25)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:15 PM

26. Would you say the same thing if the Taliban assassinated Obama in response to drone strikes? (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #26)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:19 PM

67. Not the Taliban...but the IRA were never anywhere near as evil as the 'Ban were.

Ordinary Afghans...I wouldn't lose sleep over it...because the people of Afghanistan DO have the right to regard all that we've done to them as evil.

The IRA never deprived women in NI of medical care in the name of modesty, for God's sakes.

Here's the thing...even if Adams was no saint, can you really argue with his point about Thatcher here? Does it matter who points out that she brought nothing but misery to the Six Counties? And was it not unforgiveable for her to let the hunger strikers deny rather than admit to the obvious fact that, whatever you can say about the morality of their actions, their actions were political and they were political prisioners?

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #5)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:59 PM

40. Doesn't sound as if.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:54 PM

22. Bravo

The memories of why I disliked Thatcher all came back. But those memories were mostly because of the treatment of anyone who considered themselves Irish in Northern Ireland. On reading about Thatcher's treatment of the poor and middle class Englishmen doesn't surprise me at all. I think the tea party and the repub. party have taken lessons from Thatcher's rule.

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Response to life long demo (Reply #22)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:05 PM

43. I'd be willing to go to hell myself

... if it meant I could run the furnace in her department. These people have sown the wind, and they always want to cry when they must reap the whirlwind. I have no more sympathy for them than they had for us. As a matter of fact, I've been thinking of changing my will to leave everything to Sinn Fein.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #43)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 06:15 AM

106. Bon voyage!

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Response to Nihil (Reply #106)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:45 AM

108. I'll save you a spot.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:30 PM

50. cept he's not from the IRA

Sinn Fein mostly. which is the other wing. IRA is more into the bombs. Sinn Fein is more the political wing.

ie there are allegations he was a member of the IRA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Adams#Allegations_of_IRA_membership but to flat out state he was part of the IRA is fiction. Thus the whole article is biased

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Response to PatrynXX (Reply #50)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:41 PM

55. The IRA has many manifestations

Even here in America it existed as a political entity in the mid-late 1800s. I have found records of organizations and events to raise money for the IRA. Many Irish immigrants living in San Francisco were actively involved in these events and none of them involved bombs as bombs weren't what it was about at that time. It was more of a social organization for many Irish immigrants; a way to keep their links to the homeland.

But as you state, Sein Fein is more of a political wing these days, but the IRA itself has been around or a very long time -- longer than many may ever suspect!

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Response to PatrynXX (Reply #50)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 09:50 PM

86. Maggie would have offed him

if that was true and I do not believe that it is true.

He was in prison for 16 years I believe it was and he has a large family himself. I don't believe the man had a chance.

He was a target.

to you Gerry Adams!!

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Response to CountAllVotes (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:05 PM

61. This Irishwoman says good riddance! She contributed her share to making the situation far worse

for many decades.

There will be no grieving in this household.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #61)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 09:56 PM

88. She fanned the flames in Ireland to try and divert attention from the harm she was doing the working

class all across the U.K.

Typical right wing tactic.

I hope she and her buddy Ronnie are together complaining about the heat.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:09 PM

62. I agree with Adams

Why can't the Brits get out of Ireland?

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Response to Joey Liberal (Reply #62)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 09:53 PM

87. The people of Northern Ireland want to stay British.

If the Native Americans started blowing stuff up would you say that the non-Native Americans should "get out" of the USA?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #87)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 11:30 PM

90. Shouldn't you be posting more pics of Billy Braggs mansion?

instead of spamming this native crap of yours?

It's obvious you've fooled no one around here.

RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #90)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 11:36 PM

91. Your wish is my command.



I aim to please

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #91)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 11:37 PM

92. ...



Obvious is obvious.



RL

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Response to CountAllVotes (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:22 PM

69. It's sad how much suffering one asshole like Thatcher can cause

How we allow these devils to get into positions of power amazes and disgusts me.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Original post)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:31 PM

77. So did he. nt

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Response to CountAllVotes (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 05:09 AM

102. Remember the IRA Butchers of Warrington

Planting bombs in a busy city centre,...including a secondary bomb on the exit route time to blow up the terrified shoppers fleeing the main bomb.

Murdered childrens blood is on the IRA hands,.....disgraceful that a bunch of low information DU'ers want to colour them as heroes.

Warrington is just one of MANY.

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Response to DMacTX (Reply #102)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 06:14 AM

105. Sadly, we do.

Some of us still remember where the money for so much of their murder came from too
and have little doubt that some of the celebrating scum upthread were responsible for
their share of the bloodshed.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Original post)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 05:26 AM

103. Pot, kettle.

Both sides have copious amounts of blood on their hands.

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Response to magellan (Reply #103)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 06:10 AM

104. Exactly right. (n/t)

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