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Thu Mar 21, 2013, 06:46 PM

Iran threatens to destroy Tel Aviv, Haifa if Israel attacks

Source: NBC/Reuters


Iran threatens to destroy Tel Aviv, Haifa if Israel attacks


Iranian Supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, pictured Wednesday.

By Marcus George, Reuters

DUBAI — Iran's most powerful authority said the Islamic Republic would destroy the Israeli cities of Tel Aviv and Haifa if Israel launched a military attack against it.

"At times the officials of the Zionist regime (Israel) threaten to launch a military invasion, but they themselves know that if they make the slightest mistake the Islamic Republic will raze Tel Aviv and Haifa to the ground," Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said during an address, broadcast live on state television.

Israel has threatened military action against Iran unless it abandons nuclear activities which the West suspects are intended to develop nuclear weapons, allegations Tehran denies.

Khamenei said he was not optimistic about proposals for direct talks with the United States about the nuclear program, saying Washington did not want the issues resolved.

more and pictures at link

Read more: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/21/17401207-iran-threatens-to-destroy-tel-aviv-haifa-if-israel-attacks?lite

94 replies, 8372 views

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Arrow 94 replies Author Time Post
Reply Iran threatens to destroy Tel Aviv, Haifa if Israel attacks (Original post)
PufPuf23 Mar 2013 OP
Purveyor Mar 2013 #1
Warpy Mar 2013 #4
leftynyc Mar 2013 #49
bananas Mar 2013 #5
Fuddnik Mar 2013 #14
Proletariatprincess Mar 2013 #31
Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #73
sadbear Mar 2013 #15
aquart Mar 2013 #44
MrBig Mar 2013 #58
sadbear Mar 2013 #59
MrBig Mar 2013 #62
MrBig Mar 2013 #64
Xithras Mar 2013 #16
bananas Mar 2013 #26
Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #30
Fuddnik Mar 2013 #32
cpwm17 Mar 2013 #84
bananas Mar 2013 #94
Steviehh Mar 2013 #27
Xithras Mar 2013 #69
muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #17
R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #18
aquart Mar 2013 #43
R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #45
aquart Mar 2013 #85
R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #86
Threedifferentones Mar 2013 #52
Purveyor Mar 2013 #24
daleo Mar 2013 #57
polly7 Mar 2013 #65
yurbud Mar 2013 #89
oberliner Mar 2013 #23
Purveyor Mar 2013 #25
cpwm17 Mar 2013 #90
oberliner Mar 2013 #91
cpwm17 Mar 2013 #92
oberliner Mar 2013 #93
MrBig Mar 2013 #61
bananas Mar 2013 #2
azurnoir Mar 2013 #3
PufPuf23 Mar 2013 #6
AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #7
bananas Mar 2013 #9
R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #19
bananas Mar 2013 #46
AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #34
Ash_F Mar 2013 #83
grandpamike1 Mar 2013 #8
aquart Mar 2013 #42
MicaelS Mar 2013 #10
Xithras Mar 2013 #12
MicaelS Mar 2013 #13
Old and In the Way Mar 2013 #28
fujiyama Mar 2013 #36
Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #37
leftynyc Mar 2013 #51
Xithras Mar 2013 #66
aquart Mar 2013 #41
leftynyc Mar 2013 #50
R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #20
iamthebandfanman Mar 2013 #11
R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #21
quaker bill Mar 2013 #22
MrSlayer Mar 2013 #29
fascisthunter Mar 2013 #33
Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #35
fujiyama Mar 2013 #38
Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #39
idwiyo Mar 2013 #54
aquart Mar 2013 #40
ReRe Mar 2013 #47
idwiyo Mar 2013 #55
ReRe Mar 2013 #68
idwiyo Mar 2013 #71
ReRe Mar 2013 #79
idwiyo Mar 2013 #80
cali Mar 2013 #48
idwiyo Mar 2013 #77
JCMach1 Mar 2013 #53
idwiyo Mar 2013 #56
leftynyc Mar 2013 #60
MrBig Mar 2013 #63
idwiyo Mar 2013 #75
idwiyo Mar 2013 #72
leftynyc Mar 2013 #74
idwiyo Mar 2013 #76
leftynyc Mar 2013 #78
idwiyo Mar 2013 #81
leftynyc Mar 2013 #82
polly7 Mar 2013 #67
idwiyo Mar 2013 #70
uselessobot Mar 2013 #87
tabasco Mar 2013 #88

Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 06:49 PM

1. IF "attacked", it would certainly be within their rights to retaliate and defend themselves. eom

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 07:11 PM

4. No shit and we need to stay OUT OF IT.

Israel needs to do its own dirty work for a change and if it does, to accept the very real consequences.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 07:34 AM

49. "For a change"?

When have we ever fought a war for Israel? Unlike invading Iraq for the Saudi's under Bush I, we have never fought a war on behalf of Israel.

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 07:21 PM

5. No - Iran is threatening to attack civilians - that's a serious crime against humanity.

Israel is only threatening to attack military facilities.
If Iran follows through on this threat, Israel would be justified in responding with the Samson option.
The world court has already ruled on this.
I hope you see where this is going.
You should rethink your position and stop cheering on this escalation towards war.

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Response to bananas (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 08:57 PM

14. Doesn't sound like a threat.

More of a clarification of fact. Fuck with us, suffer the consequences.

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Response to Fuddnik (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 10:16 PM

31. Exactly my thought.

Billigerant language is to be expected from both sides. I just wish the USA would stay out of it all...but that is not going to happen. Some believe, and I include myself in that number, that Israel actually runs our foreign policy. After watching that disgraceful performance by the Republicans in the Congress as they fell all over themselves to support Israel first over the interests of their own country, I am more convinced than ever that they have given away our war making decisions to Israel.

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Response to Fuddnik (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:01 PM

73. So if a future US president threatened Mecca and Medina if another terror attack

like 9/11 occurred you'd be OK with that?

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Response to bananas (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 08:58 PM

15. The entire state of Israel is a military facility.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:26 AM

44. Gosh, I'm scared.

A state with every citizen under arms is a state that has no extras for frivolous aggression. Unlike us. Unlike China.

Is this this the night of the flaming idiocies?

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Response to sadbear (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 11:58 AM

58. What a stupid statement

Good to know you support bombing hospitals, maternity wards, schools, parks, etc.

I mean, according to you, all of those things are part of a military facility and thus fair game in a war. Right?

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Response to MrBig (Reply #58)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:02 PM

59. Human shields.

And Israel knows it. Why do you think they pay Jews to resettle there?

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Response to sadbear (Reply #59)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:15 PM

62. I have no words...other than

That may be one of the dumbest things I have ever seen on this website. I've alerted your post. Not sure if I want it to be deleted though just because of how insanely stupid that statement is.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #59)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:24 PM

64. Tie goes to the Poster

Can't say I agree with Juror #4 since there are rules against posting "crazy talk" and "conspiracy theories". But all this means is more people will see how ridiculous that post was.

----------------------------
REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

Crazy talk at the least - anti-Semitic at the worst. States that Israel pays Jews to come and settle in Israel so they can be human shields. A ridiculous conspiracy theory

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:21 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: there is no rule that people can't express views that this particular alerter finds ridiculous.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: The statement is tasteless and over the top...hiding it would be a great idea.

Thank you.

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Response to bananas (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 09:03 PM

16. Depends on what they targeted.

It's perfectly legal under international law to target industrial, economic, and infrastructural sites that provide material or economic support to an enemy nation during open warfare. You can even kill civilians without violating international law, so long as they are "collateral damage". It's only a crime against humanity if civilians are targeted deliberately and indiscriminately.

Targeting the Israeli stock exchange, killing all of the civilians inside and everyone within a block or two = perfectly legal.

Targeting residential high rises and neighborhoods that provide no military aid or benefit to Israel = war crime.

It's a bit of a moot point anyway, as Israel, the United States, and Iran have all rejected the Rome Statute. The ICC has no jurisdiction over any of the three nations, or over the crimes commited within them.

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Response to Xithras (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 09:57 PM

26. "the Islamic Republic will raze Tel Aviv and Haifa to the ground"

Sounds to me like indiscriminately targeting everything,
including residential high rises and neighborhoods.

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Response to bananas (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 10:13 PM

30. "All options are on the table."

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Response to bananas (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 10:30 PM

32. Sounds like a mirror image of our policies.

Remember that huge military complex in Fallujah?

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Response to bananas (Reply #26)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:49 PM

84. Hillary Clinton threatened to "obliterate Iran" over an attack Iran has never threatened

Iran threatened to retaliate over an actual threat from Israel.

In practice, Iran shouldn't bomb civilians after an unprovoked attack from Israel. It's immoral and bad policy.

Of course, anyone murdered by Israel in their threatened attack against Iran would be every bit as innocent and dead as any innocent civilian killed by Iran.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #84)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 08:45 AM

94. She was asked what she would do if the Islamic Republic nuked Israel.

She reiterated the "nuclear umbrella" policy which the United States has had for many decades,
our nuclear arsenal will be used to deter nuclear attacks on any of our allies.

This has been a key part of our non-proliferation policies,
our allies don't need nukes because they're under our umbrella,
and so there's no point in our allies enemies acquiring nukes to threaten our allies.
See post #46 for why Iran wants nukes.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gWgSBd8knYlaq-D0zQjSHKiT2nAQ

Clinton threatens to 'obliterate' Iran if Israel attacked

(AFP) – Apr 22, 2008

CONSHOHOCKEN, Pennsylvania (AFP) — Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton threatened to "totally obliterate" Iran if the Islamic Republic was ever "reckless" enough to launch a nuclear attack on Israel.

<snip>

Clinton took her hawkish line in an interview with ABC television, when she was asked what she would do as president if the Islamic Republic were to launch a nuclear strike on Israel.

<snip>

If Iran were so "reckless to use them against the United States or an ally in a way that would destablize the world, they would have to take the consequences," she said.

The New York senator said as president, she would first do whatever she could to prevent Iran manufacturing nuclear weapons in the first place.

<snip>

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Response to Xithras (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 10:00 PM

27. Targeting Tel Aviv & Hayfa

In a war all targets are acceptable. We destroyed Baghdad and then Iraq. Israelis killed civilians who armed w/ sticks and knives in international waters. Iran is responding to Israel in their own terms. Mess w/ them and you will pay. What is your beef, you think Iran will just roll over and play dead?

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Response to Steviehh (Reply #27)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 01:16 PM

69. Der furhur would agree with you.

"In a war all targets are acceptable." - Wow. Just wow.

I could point out to you that deliberately targeting civilian populations is a war crime, that you're on a Democratic site, and that no branch of the Democratic party...or progressivism/liberalism in general...would ever advocate something like that, but I get a feeling that I'd be wasting my time.

In a war, Iran has every right to target civilian FACILITIES that are important to Israels economic and industrial capabilities, which allow the nation to function and make war. They can target infrastructure that allows the Israeli military move, and civilian businesses that provide materiel support to the Israeli military or government. There's a long, long list of "civilian" locations that can be LEGALLY bombed during open warfare. However, NO NATION has the right to EVER target and kill civilians simply for the sake of killing civilians. Nations have a legal and moral requirement to restrict their military actions to targets that actually empower the enemy to make war.

I'm no big fan of Israel, and they'd absolutely deserve any LEGITIMATE retribution dealt out by the Iranians if the Israelis bombed Iran, but NO NATION has the right to deliberately target civilian noncombatants. Even in open warfare. Deliberately bombing an apartment building is ALWAYS a war crime. Deliberately bombing a residential neighborhood is ALWAYS a war crime.

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Response to bananas (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 09:14 PM

17. Since the IDF HQ is in central Tel Aviv, it's a moot point

Direct retaliation against the Israeli military would put central Tel Aviv at risk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaKirya

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Response to bananas (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 09:18 PM

18. Did the allies bomb Dresden?



It would be better if both sides stopped with the nonsense.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:22 AM

43. Ridiculous analogy.

Historically and every other way.

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Response to aquart (Reply #43)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:29 AM

45. I'll take it that to answer yes is too hard for you.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #45)

Sat Mar 23, 2013, 12:26 AM

85. You think this is a bear shitting in the woods event?

Simplistic. Misleading. Something I expect from Michelle Bachmann or Lindsey Graham.

And your insistence on knee-jerk bobble-head agreement is revolting.

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Response to aquart (Reply #85)

Sat Mar 23, 2013, 07:11 AM

86. Not really.


I believe that this is a "you evading the question event."

I did actually ask it of bananas, but you were the one to come back with the snappy non-answer.

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Response to aquart (Reply #43)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 07:47 AM

52. Your assertion demands an explanation.

WW2 was obviously a much larger and heavier conflict than exists in the ME, but that would seem to be due to the scale and economic power of the participants. It is widely acknowledged that the allies incinerated Dresden out of a thirst for revenge which was understandable though at the same time horrific. The Muslims of the Middle East have been kicked around since fall of the Ottoman's and forced to do what we say at the point of a gun. The creation of Israel is but one example of this, though these days it would seem many Arabs consider it the biggest and most egregious. Many Americans would surely argue that decades of colonialism are not as bad as fire bombing London. This can be written off as rationalization. They generally pay little attention to the gritty details of how first Britain and France and then America came to have so much power in and draw so much profit from the ME. Instead they look for ways to paint Christians and Jews as heroes and Muslims as villains.

Iran destroying Tel Aviv out of revenge would be in keeping with how warfare has proceeded through history, including the allied bombing of Dresden. So, historically the analogy holds up.

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Response to bananas (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 09:50 PM

24. Oh wee! Going the nuke'em 'sampson option' are we? Nuking Iran? Seriously...wonder what Russia

might think of that insanity?

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Response to bananas (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 11:20 AM

57. War is war

If one side attacks, it can't expect things to escalate exactly the way the attacker would prefer. That's the first rule of war.

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Response to bananas (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 24, 2013, 05:59 PM

89. who exactly does Israel kill in the occupied territories most of the time?

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 09:42 PM

23. It is illegal to deliberately target civilians

So, no, it would not be within their rights to kill millions of Israeli civilians in response to a nuclear facility being targeted.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #23)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 09:55 PM

25. "deliberately", indeed. Ask the some 100K+ Iraqi civilian families of their dead what the

definition of "deliberately" is after our bastard, illegal invasion of their country is...

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Response to oberliner (Reply #23)

Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:27 PM

90. Israel has been targeting civilians since its inception

Who lives in Palestine?

Who works at the nuclear facilities that Israel has been threatening? Who would be murdered in an unprovoked attack against the nuclear facility?

Osama claims that it was Israel's targeting of Lebanese civilians in 1982 that gave him the idea to target the World Trade Center.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Osama_bin_Laden_video

"While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women."


Iran should take the moral high ground in a conflict with Israel, which isn't difficult to do. Iran shouldn't target civilians.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #90)

Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:36 PM

91. It's amazing that people believe the things that you do

It's really a testament to something.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #91)

Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:42 PM

92. It must have taken a lot of brainwashing for you to believe what you do

Fortunately there are a lot of sane people on this liberal website. It gives me hope for a better world.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #92)

Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:47 PM

93. You wrote something that was just factually incorrect and ill-informed.

Here's a serious question for you:

How many Palestinian civilians do you think have been killed by Israel?

Seeing how you claim that Israel has been targeting them intentionally since Israel's inception, I would imagine it would be at least several hundred thousand, right?

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:03 PM

61. Interesting...

I didn't think you supported Israel going into Gaza and Lebanon on prior occasions.

Yet by your logic, they were certainly within their rights to retaliate and defend themselves since thousands of rockets were being launched into their territory from those locations.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 06:53 PM

2. If we don't let them have nuclear weapons, they're going to attack Israel

What kind of threats will they make once they have nuclear weapons?

Don't forget - Iran was the first country to bomb a nuclear reactor: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11278756

It's rather hypocritical of them to object to having their enrichment facilities bombed.
The "peaceful" facilities located on military bases in underground bunkers.

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Response to bananas (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 06:57 PM

3. and what country was second the one that actually destroyed Osirak?

same one that Iran just 'threaten' if that country attacked Iran first any questions look up Operation Opera

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Response to bananas (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 07:23 PM

6. Thanks. I did not know that Iran bombed a France designed Iraq reactor during the Iraq-Iran War on

in September 1980.

Israel bombed the same Iraqui reactor with much more success June 1981.

Israel also bombed a Syrian presumed nuclear site in the 21st century.

from the wiki link your OP referenced as:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11278756

wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiraq#Iranian_attack

Operation Opera (Hebrew: אופרה‎, also known as Operation Babylon, was a surprise Israeli air strike carried out on 7 June 1981, that destroyed a nuclear reactor under construction 17 kilometers (10.5 miles) southeast of Baghdad, Iraq. This operation was after Iran's Operation Scorch Sword that damaged this nuclear facility months before.

In 1976, Iraq purchased an "Osiris"-class nuclear reactor from France. While Iraq and France maintained that the reactor, named Osirak by the French, was intended for peaceful scientific research, the Israelis viewed the reactor with suspicion, and said that it was designed to make nuclear weapons. On 7 June 1981, a flight of Israeli Air Force F-16A fighter aircraft, with an escort of F-15As, bombed and heavily damaged the Osirak reactor. Israel claimed it acted in self-defense, and that the reactor had "less than a month to go" before "it might have become critical." Ten Iraqi soldiers and one French civilian were killed. The attack took place about three weeks before the elections for the Knesset.

The attack was strongly criticized around the world and Israel was rebuked by the United Nations Security Council and General Assembly in two separate resolutions. The destruction of Osirak has been cited as an example of a preventive strike in contemporary scholarship on international law.

more at wiki

But the USA supported Iraq against Iran in the Iraq-Iran War except for the GOP oopsie of Iran-Contra.

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Response to bananas (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 07:29 PM

7. I missed the part where Iran is "going to attack Israel"?

As a result of international opposition to them developing nukes? Since when?

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 08:23 PM

9. Do you realize you're cheering on a War Crime, a Crime Against Humanity?

Killing civilians in retribution for an attack on military facilities is a War Crime, a Crime Against Humanity.

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Response to bananas (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 09:29 PM

19. Are you willfully ignoring that Israel is also threatening Iran. That they must be stopped?


Acts like that and Dubya's attack on Iraq has pushed the Iranians towards this inevitability. Now they should be attacked to stop them from developing something that they see as a deterrent to attacking them?

Should they have the bomb? No. Neither should Pakistan, India, North Korea, Israel and a lot of other countries.

Should they be bombed for it? If your answer is yes, then there is justification for unilateral bombing of lots of other countries.

Do you want to go down that road?

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:25 AM

46. Iran isn't seeking a deterrent against the US and Israel.

http://nuclearrisk.wordpress.com/2011/11/20/ex-spymaster-on-iranian-nuclear-threat/

Ex-Spymaster on Iranian Nuclear Threat
Posted on November 20, 2011 by Nuclear Risk

In a recent interview, retired four-star admiral and former head of the super-secret NSA, Adm. Bobby Inman, portrays a very different Iranian threat from the usual – and a very different approach for dealing with Iran successfully.

<snip>

When Bobby Inman speaks, people should listen – especially when he contradicts conventional wisdom that could get us into a needless war. Here are some key excerpts from the interview concerning Iran:

The real issue is, why does Iran want nuclear weapons – presuming that there’s sufficient evidence that they do want them. For me, it is not to go obliterate Israel, notwithstanding the certifiably crazy remarks from Ahmadinejad. I’m persuaded that Iran has the ambition to create a Shia caliphate: Iran, Iraq south of Baghdad, Bahrain, the eastern provinces of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the West Bank, southern Lebanon, Syria. And their concern about interference in their doing that is conventional military power, and that if they had nuclear weapons, no one would be willing to use force to keep them from their efforts to expand that Shia caliphate.

Now I may be wrong, but my sense is that’s the motivation and therefore whoever goes to power in Shia-dominated Iran is likely to have the same ambition. But that does not mean they are looking for them for offensive purposes, but rather for deterrent to make sure that conventional forces are not used by their neighbors to keep them from achieving their aims. …

(Inman contrasts past, successful Israeli strikes on Iraq’s and Syria’s nuclear reactors with the situation in Iran and goes on to note: ) Iran has at least 14 separate targets. All the evidence is that they’ve got redundancy in the process. So a single military strike is absolutely unlikely of doing more than momentarily slowing the Iranian program. And its counterforce would be to ensure the hardliners who now control Iran would control it for another 20 years. …

I think when you talk about negotiating with Iran, the target for negotiations is not nuclear weapons. The target for trying to bring them into multilateral negotiations is in finding a peaceful and acceptable exit from Afghanistan, where you would need to bring in Russia, the three Stans, China, India, Pakistan, Iran, and say to all of them: “Chaos in Afghanistan is not in your interests or in ours. You have regional influence. You could invest in developing the infrastructure and the resources in the regions closest to you, and providing them access to markets.” And that’s a far more likely way to advance constructive relationships over the long term with Iran than trying to take away something that they believe is their inherent right to have. …

The heart of the issue for me is why does Iran want nuclear weapons, and can you undertake actions that cause at least significant parts of the Iranian society to decide that they’re too expensive and troublesome and not worth the effort.

Interviewer: So you’re talking about the Iranian middle-class here?

Yes. … And the major question is how does one shake the iron grip that the Iranian Revolutionary Guards have on almost everything that goes on in Iran these days. … How one shakes that – it’s got to come from internally. And that gets to the issue of how you can help build up the internal forces that would be resistant. And if you’re visible in that case, you’ll destroy the people you’re trying to help.

<snip>

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Response to bananas (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 11:53 PM

34. I don't recall cheering on anything. Who fucked with my keyboard while i was getting a snack?

(I didn't cheer on Iran for anything, but I DO support their right to defend themselves against aggression, with force if necessary.)

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Response to bananas (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:30 PM

83. Iraq started that war. They launched a full scale invasion against Iran and were backed by the US.

If Israel were being invaded with tanks and planes by another country with a much larger military that was backed by a super power, there would be some comparison. But Iran has not done that.

Nor will they. They, first of all, not only lack the motivation but have neither the military capability nor the ability to withstand the political fallout of invading another country. The government is already in a precarious position as it is. Attacking Israel would cause mutiny and revolt.

But if Israel were to attack Iran first, that would just rally people behind the right wing fascists. That's why it is such a bad idea.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 08:06 PM

8. It is just grandstanding

To his religious base, as he well knows, if it seemed that he was able to do this, he and all of the other fanatics over there would be on a express lane to Allah. I have no doubt, that if Israel was seriously threatened, they have the capability to take all necessary measures to not only protect their state but to annihilate any country that chooses that route.

Peace be with you

Al-Salam Alaikum

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Response to grandpamike1 (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:19 AM

42. Exactly.

But what you fail to consider is that the Israeli noise is also bombast for the home audience.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 08:27 PM

10. Then Tehran will be vaporized.

Along with other Iranian cities. Israel has a lot of nuclear weapons, including thermonuclear weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 08:35 PM

12. The irony of that.

Is that Tehran is probably the most liberal and progressive city in Iran. The conservative power of the Iranian government comes from the rural countryside, and not their larger cities. By nuking Tehran, the Israelis would simply be swinging Iran's internal power balance further right, in support of the extremists.

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Response to Xithras (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 08:47 PM

13. Good point, never thought of that. n/t

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Response to Xithras (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 10:10 PM

28. Too bad more people don't understand your point.

Iraq was the most secular state in the ME until we helped kick it into Shia orbit. We are only giving RW religious fundies more control in Iran by marginalizing the moderate population in that country.

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Response to Xithras (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:03 AM

36. This is true

and another ironic aspect of this is that the younger population in Iran, is among the LEAST religious in the Muslim world. People should remember that on the streets of Tehran they held vigils after 9/11.

Cooler heads must prevail. The world simply can't afford this shitstorm of a conflict.

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Response to Xithras (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:05 AM

37. Liberal and progressive? Really?

On March 15, 2005, the daily newspaper Etemaad reported that the Tehran Criminal Court sentenced two men to death following the discovery of a video showing them engaged in homosexual acts. Another two men were allegedly hanged publicly in the northern town of Gorgan for sodomy rape acts in November 2005. In July 2006 two youths were hanged for "sex crimes" in north-eastern Iran, probably rape. On November 16, 2006, the State-run news agency reported the public execution of man convicted of sodomy in the western city of Kermanshah, also probably rape.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Iran

What a wonderful, liberal, progressive country.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #37)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 07:41 AM

51. No need to go back that far

This is from less than a year ago in tolerant liberal Iran:

Two Iranians have been sentenced to death for persistent consumption of alcohol under the country's Islamic Sharia law, which forbids the use, manufacturing and trading of all types of alcoholic drinks.

The two, who have not been named by the authorities, have each previously been lashed 160 times after twice being arrested for consuming alcohol. Being convicted for the third time makes them liable for the death penalty.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/25/iranian-pair-death-penalty-alcohol

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #37)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:47 PM

66. Work on that reading comprehension a bit.

That's not what I said and you know it.

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Response to Xithras (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:16 AM

41. THE ISRAELIS ARE NOT NUKING IRAN.

Weekend hysteria on a Thursday? Not even soap opera boards do that.

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Response to aquart (Reply #41)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 07:38 AM

50. So many are pissed

President Obama didn't tell the Israeli's to fuck themselves. As if that were ever going to happen. Let them have their temper tantrum.

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 09:33 PM

20. On he Beach.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 08:33 PM

11. totally expected a threat

after all the butt kissing I heard earlier in Israel from our government.

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Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 09:35 PM

21. I hadn't realized that the sound had stopped.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 09:40 PM

22. Iran can couterpunch

I do not know how successfully, but they have a large army, an airforce, and largely intact air defenses. I do not know if they would get through Israeli defenses, but I would bet they would give it a try if attacked. I would also bet that they could do a fair amount of damage. I do doubt that they would win the day pretty strongly, but think they would put up a better fight than Saddam did. We had spent a decade blowing up Saddam's air defenses before our invasion. Iran has not been softened as a target in this way.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 10:12 PM

29. What are they supposed to say? "Come and bomb us, we're cool with that."

 

Of course they're going to rattle the saber right back. It's meaningless.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Thu Mar 21, 2013, 10:31 PM

33. riiight... Exactly what Israel needs... more meat for feeding

the religiously fantical meatheads who believe Israel has some weird right to pre-emptive right to strike out against Iran and anyone their right wing religiously fanatical government wants to.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:01 AM

35. Batshit crazy Ayatollahs threatening to commit war crimes.

No surprise there. These people execute men for being gay and stone to death women who are raped or commit adultery. And issue fatwas against people like Salman Rushdie.

We cannot allow these crazies to get nukes.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #35)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:06 AM

38. I agree the regime is atrocious

but regarding your last comment - to what extent will we go to stop them from getting nukes? That's the heart of the matter. Is it worth going to war over?

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Response to fujiyama (Reply #38)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:09 AM

39. I trust President Obama's judgment on that question.

At times like this I am extremely grateful not to have simpleminded morons like W and bloodthirsty psychopaths like Cheney and Rumsfeld running the show.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #35)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 09:39 AM

54. Batshit crazy Israeli and Iran governments threaten mutual distraction. Here, fixed it for you.

Don't you think it would be more honest to mention that Iran's statement has operative words "if attacked"? What exactly do you expect them to do if Israel bombs the shit out of them? Roll over, close their eyes and think about Allah?

Also, why is it exactly Iran should not be allowed to develop nuclear technology for peaceful use?
Is it because it would greatly inconvenience Isreal, US and UK or is it because they are so scary and like totally suicidal to ever use it as to attack anyone first? BTW, when did they initiate a war last time? I am sure you'd know, granted how you make bold statements about Iran being so dangerous to everyone else.

PS. While I hate their bulshit crazy interpretation of Islam for the treatment of gays and women, I would NEVER, EVER advocate a forceful regime change by outside forces. Fat shitload of good it did in Afganistan, Iraq, and Lybia. If anything WE are responsible now for the additional hardship gays and women there experiencing because of our respective governments actions.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:13 AM

40. Duh.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 06:36 AM

47. Why can't Iran just...

.... keep it's mouth shut? Just once? What is it about Peace that curls their toes?
As Rodney King said "Can't we all just get along?"

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Response to ReRe (Reply #47)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 09:42 AM

55. "If attacked". What else should they do if Israel decides to bomb them?

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #55)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 01:07 PM

68. It just reminds me of what Sadam Husein extolled....

.... before we proved him wrong and in the process killed allot of innocent people. It's just an unneeded provocation. And Israel needs to lower it's bombast too. Guess the only reason Iran said it was because PO was in Israel. I don't have a timeline of when who said what. Did Iran say this before or after PO received the award and/or after he made the historic speech at the Israeli university? Of course every nation has a right to defend itself. Also, did Bibi say something pointed at Iran in a joint presser with PO before Iran mouthed off? It's a cold war they've got going over there and Israel is sitting on a ton of nukes. Everybody needs to STFU!

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Response to ReRe (Reply #68)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 01:50 PM

71. Looks like during the visit. Clearly intended as a warning to Obama that Iran is going to retaliate.

if attacked.

I seriously with Obama tells Israel they are on their own if they even think using military force.

My ideal solution to the problem: all military solution inclined hawks in both Iran and Israel government should be sent to uninhibited islan without any food or survival supplies. They will be provided with food and shelter only if they managed to cooperate, otherwise they are on their own. Definitely 24 hours TV coverage.

Wonder how long they will last before they manage to start properly talking to each other.
I bet though they will have at least one fist fight before they realise how stupid they behave.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #71)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:16 PM

79. Instead of an island....

...I say a plot of uninhabited tundra. No nukes allowed. Small arms or no arms at all. Just let them duke it out. And every time countries want to have a war, that's where they go. No more innocents killed. Only catch is, they have to reclaim the area (clean up the mess) after it's all over, so it will be nice and neat for the next folks who are itchin' for a fight. You and I are on the same page, idwiyo.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #79)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:21 PM

80. Damn, you are tougher then me. Sending people to tundra is really harsh. I do prefer no arms at all.

If the want to fight, they can either use their extremities or they can make the weapons themselves.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 06:42 AM

48. Israel will not attack Iran without U.S. approval and whatever else

they're getting during President Obama's visit, they definitely did not get that. This is all chest beating both by the Israelis and the Iranians.

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Response to cali (Reply #48)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:11 PM

77. Absolutely. Totally agree. And thank you, Obama, for refusing to provide support.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:47 AM

53. apparently they have a secret wish to put Tehran under a mushroom cloud

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Response to JCMach1 (Reply #53)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 09:45 AM

56. Israel has not so secret wish to bomb the shit out of them. Iran has the right to retaliate.

I'd prefer if both batshit crazy governments just shut the fuck up and pay attention to their respective internal affairs.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #56)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:03 PM

60. Spare me

If Israel bombed Iran every time DU was shrieking it was about to happen, it would be a smoldering hole.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #60)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:16 PM

63. Thank You

Seriously - some people here truly believe Israel is one slip of the finger away from launching a full scale nuclear war on Iran. It's beyond ridiculous.

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Response to MrBig (Reply #63)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:04 PM

75. Seriously enough people here believe that the only reason Israel didn't bomb the shit out of Iran

just yet (even though they keep making threats in press about it) is because they are not stupid enough to do it without full back up from US. Thankfully Obama is not obliging them with such reassurance, and that is pissing off Bibi to no end. To the point that he tried to influence outcome of last presidential election.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #60)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 01:54 PM

72. Israel made more than enough statements in press about military action against Iran.

Not my problem if you managed somehow to miss them all.
Try Google, it should provide you with more than enough links.

Also, why so much hostility?

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #72)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:03 PM

74. Yawn

My answer to this post is the same as the last one. After 10 years of "OMG, ISRAEL IS GOING TO BOMB IRAN" posts here, I'm simply tired of the bullshit. Don't like it? Tough.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #74)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:08 PM

76. Well, there is nothing you can say to prove that Israel is not the one who is trying to provoke

Iran. Thankfully Obama is not obliging them with support they so desire.

Regardless, there is no point talking to someone who doesn't want to talk.

Have a nice day.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #76)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:15 PM

78. Prove a negative?

That's pretty rich on a thread started with Iranian threats. And no, if you're going to run around with your hair on fire shrieking about Israel bombing Iran we certainly do not have anything to talk about. Ciao.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #78)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:25 PM

81. Nice bullshit tactics. You should be ashamed of yourself, but that would require some integrity.

Have a nice day, and you are welcome to have a last word. Just try not to misinterpret what I am actually saying the way you did twice already. It's unbecoming and makes everything one says suspect.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #81)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:29 PM

82. Take a look at the first comment

I posted to and try and convince yourself I'm misrepresenting it. Shamed by an anonymous poster? You must be kidding. And unbecoming? I'm hurt.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:47 PM

67. I wonder if Iran would then attack Israel's nuclear weapon sites? nt.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Fri Mar 22, 2013, 01:48 PM

70. Wrong place, moved to the right thread.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Sat Mar 23, 2013, 07:21 AM

87. A bit over the top but understandable, all nations have a right to defend themselves against attack

 

If Iran can't have nukes, which IMHO they are entitled to because well we have them, Russia has them, China has them, Israel has them, France has them, India has them, Pakistan has them and North Korea has them.

Who the f are we to tell others they cannot have something we have and threaten people with on a regular basis?

If anything we should have stopped Israel from obtaining them seeing that Israel's possession of them has destabilized the region and caused an arms build up.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Original post)

Sat Mar 23, 2013, 12:43 PM

88. Would we really be able to use Iran as a parking lot after this?

Or would the radiation be too high?

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