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Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:15 PM

Idaho lawmaker: Force all adults into militias to protect gun rights

Source: Raw Story

Idaho lawmaker: Force all adults into militias to protect gun rights
By David Edwards
Wednesday, February 27, 2013 15:47 EST

A Republican lawmaker in Idaho has proposed an amendment to the state Constitution that would require all adults to be militia members in an effort to preserve their right to bear arms.

At a Idaho Senate State Affairs Committee on Wednesday, state Sen. Jim Rice (R) said that he feared that the U.S. Supreme Court would change the definition of the Second Amendment and allow the federal government to confiscate guns owned by individuals, according to The Associated Press.

But Rice argued that the federal government could never take away people’s guns if the Idaho Constitution was changed to make all adults members of the state militia as a “backstop.”

The Caldwell Republican hopes to let the voters decide on the amendment in the November 2014 election. Rice said that there was no issue that was more important to his constituents than gun rights.


Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/02/27/idaho-lawmaker-force-all-adults-into-militias-to-protect-gun-rights/

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Arrow 45 replies Author Time Post
Reply Idaho lawmaker: Force all adults into militias to protect gun rights (Original post)
Judi Lynn Feb 2013 OP
DainBramaged Feb 2013 #1
Politicalboi Feb 2013 #2
slackmaster Feb 2013 #3
ErikJ Feb 2013 #9
dairydog91 Feb 2013 #11
Brigid Feb 2013 #4
dairydog91 Feb 2013 #5
Brigid Feb 2013 #12
former9thward Feb 2013 #35
Brigid Feb 2013 #36
former9thward Feb 2013 #37
oldandhappy Feb 2013 #6
dairydog91 Feb 2013 #10
mbperrin Feb 2013 #7
happyslug Feb 2013 #15
mbperrin Feb 2013 #19
happyslug Feb 2013 #25
JustAnotherGen Feb 2013 #28
Paladin Feb 2013 #29
JustAnotherGen Feb 2013 #32
mbperrin Feb 2013 #34
former9thward Feb 2013 #39
mbperrin Mar 2013 #42
samsingh Feb 2013 #27
actslikeacarrot Feb 2013 #33
valerief Feb 2013 #8
Downtown Hound Feb 2013 #13
rabid_byter Feb 2013 #14
Quantess Feb 2013 #16
rachel1 Feb 2013 #17
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Feb 2013 #18
azureblue Feb 2013 #20
Pterodactyl Feb 2013 #21
DeSwiss Feb 2013 #23
Pterodactyl Feb 2013 #41
DeSwiss Feb 2013 #22
apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #38
Mkap Feb 2013 #24
samsingh Feb 2013 #26
Paladin Feb 2013 #31
samsingh Mar 2013 #43
Paladin Mar 2013 #44
samsingh Mar 2013 #45
libodem Feb 2013 #30
apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #40

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:19 PM

1. You can't make stupid optional either

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:21 PM

2. If it's a gay militia

Count me in.

Man they are getting soooooo desperate. Would this include felons too since there really weren't laws against felons owning guns when the amendment was written. Talk about BIG GOVERNMENT.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:22 PM

3. They already are militia members according to existing state law

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:34 PM

9. Here it is.

TITLE 46
MILITIA AND MILITARY AFFAIRS
CHAPTER 1
STATE MILITIA -- ORGANIZATION AND STAFF
46-103. STATE MILITIA -- DIVISION INTO CLASSES. The militia of the state of Idaho shall be divided into three (3) classes, to wit:
The national guard, the organized militia, and the unorganized militia. The national guard shall consist of enlisted personnel between the ages of seventeen (17) and sixty-four (64), organized and equipped and armed as provided in the national defense act, and of commissioned officers between the ages of eighteen (18)and sixty-four (64) years, who shall be appointed and commissioned by the governor as commander-in-chief, in conformity with the provisions of the national defense act, the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, and as authorized by the provisions of this act. The organized militia shall include any portion of the unorganized militia called into service by the governor, and not federally recognized. The unorganized militia shall include all of the militia of the state of Idaho not included in the national guard or the organized militia.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:49 PM

11. Article XIV of their state Constitution sets up a militia obligation of most Idaho citizens.

Other states have a similar provision in their own constitutions. For example, Article XII of the New York constitution, or Article XII of the Illinois constitution.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:23 PM

4. I am no Constitutional scholar, but . . .I

I can't imagine this passing U.S. Constitutional muster if somebody in ID pushes it.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:32 PM

5. Why not?

He just proposed, essentially, classifying all Idaho adults as members of the militia. Their constitution already considers all males between 18 and 45 to be members of the militia. I supposed the 13th Amendment could be read to prohibit a draft, but SCOTUS cheerfully allowed a draft exception during WWI and has never revised that.

About the only thing this proposed change highlights is a gaping hole in the "State's rights" theory of the Second Amendment. If you truly believe that the Second Amendment only protected the state's right to arm and equip a militia, then it seems that Idaho should have the Constitutional right to issue/sell/legalize military-grade firearms to the members of its own state militia.

Current Idaho Constitution: http://www.sos.idaho.gov/elect/stcon/articl14.htm

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Response to dairydog91 (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:54 PM

12. I still find it hard to believe . . .

That a person who flatly refused to appear for a call-up, or who refused to touch a weapon, wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But then, hopping in the car and leaving the state is always an option, I guess.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 09:12 PM

35. Leaving the state would do no good.

10 USC 311 is a federal law which makes most adults in the U.S. part of the militia whether they like it or not. Also the majority of states have state Constitutional provisions making adults members of the state militia.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #35)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 09:15 PM

36. I dare them . . .

To try to force a 54-year-old with heart trouble (me) into a militia.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #36)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 09:43 PM

37. If we ever got to the point all adults were being forced into militias...

It would be utter chaos and no one would be respecting any rights. That said the militia laws have provisions which say "able bodied" for whatever that is worth.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:32 PM

6. good call

Force the adults in to militias and make them handle muskets!! Love it.

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Response to oldandhappy (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:43 PM

10. Why not M4 assault rifles, M240 machineguns, and M136 rocket launchers?

Those are modern military weapons. Under the "state's rights" or "communal" theories of the Second Amendment, doesn't Idaho have a Second Amendment right to equip and regulate its state militia as it sees fit?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:32 PM

7. Okay, so to preserve "freedom" everyone must be drafted?

Makes as much sense to fly halfway around the world to kill strangers.

That's why I didn't go to Vietnam. I went to college and kept lonely girlfriends, fiancees and wives company whilst their better halves went halfway around the world to save villages by destroying them.

Jim Rice is misspelled - I'm sure it's Dim Rice....

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Response to mbperrin (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:30 PM

15. Under Federal Law, all males between the ages of 17 and 45 are already in the Militia

And that has been the law since 1792. The Supreme Court has question those age restrictions, i.e. they would expand it all all men.


The Militia Act of 1792:
http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm

10 USC 311 (Present version of the Militia Act):
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html

Hamilton's comment on the Militia in the Federalist papers:
http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/federalist/federalist-20-29/federalist.29.shtml

Madison's notes on the Consitutional and the Militia clause. This debate between Madison and Patrick Henry was during the 1788 Virginia radifiying convention (not the Consutional Convention that wrote the Consitution in 1787):

http://www.constitution.org/rc/rat_va_13.htm#henry-09

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Response to happyslug (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:56 PM

19. Sorry, we're not in the militia. Your own link gives explicit instructions on how that shall be done

A captain or commander shall enroll the men in his area. Nothing automatic about it. You must be notified by the non-com in your area. None of this has been done, and so no, we are not in the militia already.

To wit:
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes.

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Response to mbperrin (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 11:18 AM

25. Read the PRESENT STATUTE, not the 1792 Militia Act

10 USC § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:46 PM

28. Well

Then where can I get my flame thrower?

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:51 PM

29. Jeez, Don't Encourage Them.... (nt)

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Response to Paladin (Reply #29)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 02:20 PM

32. n/s




You my friend are right - some jackass would totally take that seriously!

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Response to happyslug (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 08:01 PM

34. The link was provided in the post - not my idea.

So yeah, I'm ready for my free guns - where do I go?

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Response to mbperrin (Reply #34)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 09:47 PM

39. Nothing in any of the laws about free guns.

In fact the laws say you are to provide yourself with adequate weapons. If you want free guns go join the military and even those guns you can't keep.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #39)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 01:57 AM

42. Actually, I don't and wouldn't own a gun or serve in any military capacity.

Ever.

I'm 61 and have gotten along just fine without shooting a soul.

But this silly little thread has been a bit entertaining. And now that's done.

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Response to mbperrin (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 11:32 AM

27. just like more guns will reduce the number of gun deaths

protect freedom by taking it away.

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Response to mbperrin (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 02:33 PM

33. Jody? n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:34 PM

8. Buh wuh about mah freedumb tah not be milishud? nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 07:26 PM

13. Good idea, take away people's freedom, then arm them to the teeth

Apparently, the thought that some of them might be pissed off and might come looking for Mr. Rice hasn't crossed his mind, but I guess that's to be expected.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:02 PM

14. maybe there'll be a White Dragon Militia group..

 

but they only fight with Computers.. i guess you could wear a gun at your computer..

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:41 PM

16. Sounds hilarious!

Bored young liberals with no real plans could have a lot of fun moving to Idaho to form their own militia.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:32 PM

17. Yet another good reason to repeal the 2nd Amendment

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:40 PM

18. What a loon.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:10 PM

20. there already is a militia

it's called the National Guard, and, personally, I think all gun owners should, as the 2nd amendment states, should have to serve in the Guard in order to become a "well trained militia" and qualify to own a gun..

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:28 PM

21. That's stupid. You can't force people into something just because they're citizens.

Unless it's health insurance. Then you can force them.

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Response to Pterodactyl (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:49 PM

23. Or if its a vaccine.

Or taxes.

Or school.

Oh, and paying for illegal wars.

- Other than those, we're practically free.....

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #23)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 10:38 PM

41. I hear ya, bro.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:43 PM

22. All these frightened little people.....

...clinging to their guns. Bulls-eye, Mr. President.

- Sounds like Wayne's been to Idaho recently......

K&R




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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 09:46 PM

38. LOL! Perfect cartoon! Nails the pro-NRA gun fondler-ideology perfectly.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 03:46 AM

24. Rice said that there was no issue that was more important to his constituents than gun rights.

Yes, the states probably going bankrupt, roads are fill of potholes, teachers are being laid off, police and fire department being laid off, taxes are going up, schools are failing.

But whatever, right!! Just don't take away my guns!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 11:30 AM

26. at least this idea is consistent with the constitution and an admission

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Response to samsingh (Reply #26)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:53 PM

31. "An admission" of what, for God's sake?


That the gun rights movement is in a full-scale panic over the way things have turned against it in such a short period of time? I don't need some dipshit politico from Idaho pointing that out; every public utterance that Wayne LaPierre has made in the last couple of months offers more-than-adequate proof.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #31)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 10:34 AM

43. an admission that the Constitution refers to arming militias and does not mean infinite guns for

anyone who wants them.

it's an important distinction.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #43)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 02:29 PM

44. I Agree With Your Interpretation. Too Bad Scalia Doesn't... (nt)

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Response to Paladin (Reply #44)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 03:31 PM

45. he doesn't agree with a lot of moral stuff- see what's he's saying about voting rights

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:21 PM

30. I've got to find a way out of this state

Gawd.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 09:50 PM

40. As the 2nd amendment was written as a *collective* right - the rights of states to have "well

regulated militias" (the pro-NRA gun fondlers always leave that wordage of the amendment out ) which today are National Guards, this is actually an admission that the NRA/Scalia Court interpretation of the 2nd is wrong.

Progress, I guess. By 2050 people will laugh at the notion that untrained civilians ever assumed that they had a "right" to strut through Wal Mart with a pistol perched in their pants - just like we deplore the historical notion of "White's Only" lunch counters today.

Also, see sig line:

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