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Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:08 AM

 

Church: Unwed, pregnant teacher fired for violating ‘morality clause’

Source: Dayton Daily News

A Kettering Catholic school teacher fired in December 2011 because of her unwed pregnancy was not discriminated against but was terminated because she violated a contract saying that she would comply with church teachings, according to a response to the former teacher’s lawsuit filed in federal court Monday.

The filing by attorneys for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Cincinnati denies any discrimination and says former teacher Kathleen Quinlan’s court claims are barred by the First Amendment’s freedom of religion protections.

“The Archdiocese of Cincinnati for many years has had what is commonly called a morality clause in its contract,” church spokesman Dan Andriacco told the Dayton Daily News on Monday. “We expect our employees who sign those contracts to live up to that clause and when they do not we enforce it.”

Quinlan’s attorney, Micah Siegal, said “that contract cannot be enforced against her in a way that violated federal law.”

Read more: http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/church-unwed-pregnant-teacher-fired-for-violating-/nWZKj/



I am sure the school officials go through everyone's private life and make sure they are all abiding by every, single rule. For instance, I wonder if the male teachers get fired for hooking up outside of marriage. Did they fire teachers who supported the Iraq War? The Church came out against it? Do they fire teachers who support the death penalty? Maybe she should have gotten an abortion so she could keep her job.

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Reply Church: Unwed, pregnant teacher fired for violating ‘morality clause’ (Original post)
midwest irish Feb 2013 OP
MAD Dave Feb 2013 #1
pampango Feb 2013 #5
midwest irish Feb 2013 #9
pampango Feb 2013 #10
southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #26
MAD Dave Feb 2013 #35
southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #40
McCamy Taylor Feb 2013 #42
southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #43
Occulus Feb 2013 #46
southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #47
eggplant Feb 2013 #2
alp227 Feb 2013 #3
get the red out Feb 2013 #4
RC Feb 2013 #6
Walk away Feb 2013 #23
get the red out Feb 2013 #28
still_one Feb 2013 #7
Wernothelpless Feb 2013 #8
TheMastersNemesis Feb 2013 #12
SCVDem Feb 2013 #17
freshwest Feb 2013 #19
midwest irish Feb 2013 #24
freshwest Feb 2013 #27
Tom Ripley Feb 2013 #22
Wernothelpless Feb 2013 #48
mountain grammy Feb 2013 #11
HockeyMom Feb 2013 #13
Kelvin Mace Feb 2013 #14
marble falls Feb 2013 #16
marble falls Feb 2013 #15
Dawson Leery Feb 2013 #18
Walk away Feb 2013 #20
Tom Ripley Feb 2013 #21
HockeyMom Feb 2013 #25
Blue_Tires Feb 2013 #38
DallasNE Feb 2013 #29
Jim Lane Feb 2013 #36
DallasNE Feb 2013 #37
Jim Lane Feb 2013 #45
DallasNE Feb 2013 #49
Tanuki Feb 2013 #30
drm604 Feb 2013 #31
midwest irish Feb 2013 #32
cer7711 Feb 2013 #33
Veri1138 Feb 2013 #34
CBHagman Feb 2013 #39
McCamy Taylor Feb 2013 #41
McCamy Taylor Feb 2013 #44

Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:11 AM

1. So sad!

I wish her luck but I'm afraid she's screwed, Again!

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Response to MAD Dave (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:34 AM

5. A friend of mine knows her and told me that she proved that she got pregnant through artificial

insemination (rather than an "immoral lifestyle" as the Catholic Church would see it). The Church knows this but still fired her.

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Response to pampango (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:37 AM

9. Unfortuantly

 

The church see artificial insemination as immoral. Did she teach as Ascension?

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Response to midwest irish (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:39 AM

10. Yes, I think that is where he said that she taught. n/t

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Response to pampango (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:32 PM

26. The catholic church doesn't believe in having sex before your married. It's ok to play

 

with little boys but god forbid if a single woman gets pregnant. I wonder how outraged if it were a single man who got the woman pregnant. I bet there would be no problem. He would continue to work.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #26)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:47 PM

35. Pretty sure you're right!

The basic premise is you can't prove the child is his.

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Response to MAD Dave (Reply #35)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:03 PM

40. Yep that is the teaching. I had it pounded into my head by my father. I didn't want to

 

disappoint my parents. I waited til I got married before experiencing sex. Then I wondered why I waited so long. LOL, na I was glad I waited. I sure didn't want any babies before it was time.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #26)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:24 PM

42. She needs to file on sex discrimination. All she has to do is find one male teacher who has ever

had sex with someone he is not married to and who kept his job. Should not be hard. The priests are definitely not married to the boys they fondle.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #42)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:29 PM

43. I don't think it would help her. This is a private school and they can do what they want. They

 

can hire who they want.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #43)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:53 PM

46. It occurs to me that that needs to change.

That "we're a private school so we can do as we wish", from what I've seen in my lifetime, is most often used solely to justify behavior that would result in an array of penalties to a non religious or non private school.

Simply being a private school should in no way exempt these institutions from punishment which for any other similar, non private institution would be flagrant violations of Federal law.

Such special rights and special dispensations should never be the point of maintaining a private school as a private school.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #46)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:36 AM

47. I see your point however, private organizations have a right to have who they want.

 

To me all this shows is how they want to keep certain groups out and this is the way they can do it legally. It doesn't make it right. I remember once I applied for a job as a secretary for a preacher and I wasn't accepted because I wasn't of their faith. I understand that.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:26 AM

2. Will they make her sleep in the manger? n/t

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:30 AM

3. Similar story out of texas last year

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1255676

And from florida in 2010



I'm not surprised that the court ruled in favor of the school right to enforce morals clause.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:31 AM

4. LOLOLOL

The irony is simply hilarious! Priests raping kids, (can't talk about that); Teacher having a baby without a husband OH MY GOD get that sinner OUT OF HERE.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:34 AM

6. What do the pedophile priests have to do to violate the morality clause?

 

I really don't see how the Catholic Church hasn't been sued out of existence yet.
I guess if you can believe in an silent, invisible sky deity, that needs its subjects to do all of its work for it, you can justify anything.

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Response to RC (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:21 PM

23. The individual diocese are going Chapter 11 so they can weasle out of their debts when...

they are hit with child rape law suits. The Catholic Church make all other organized religions look like garden verity crooks.

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Response to RC (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:34 PM

28. Be female

But of course, that would not be permitted.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:34 AM

7. If it was policy, why didn't they do the same thing with the priest's that molested kids?

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:35 AM

8. Ah, wasn't their precious Mother Mary an unwed mother? ...

Or have they forgotten ...

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Response to Wernothelpless (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:58 AM

12. Technically Yes - She Was Pregnant Before Joseph And There Is No Mention Of A Marriage

to Joseph. Since she was under age a rape was involved. God can do anything. I was raised Catholic and all the years of indoctrination never thought of asking certain embarrassing questions. The nuns would have had a heart attack if any of us would have asked certain questions. They would have washed our mouths out with soap.

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:43 PM

17. Like minds

I knew someone was thinking of Mary.

As a private institution they may do this.

As a taxpayer I want them taxed and any government subsudies or write offs cut!

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Response to SCVDem (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:00 PM

19. Agreed. This is libertarianism, private institutions discriminating at will. Property over people.

Churches don't pay taxes but their employees do and churches take public tax money but are allowed to do what others taking tax money are not allowed to do. The fact that some portion of her salary came from tax subsidies should be taken into account in her treatment.

But the churches are shielded from accounting for anything, so who can tell if the tax payers paid her or are now paying for her to be discriminated against in this case?

People who attend the church and school and believe the church should be allowed such power in private matters with public money are abetting the problem. But in their defense, they are afraid to complain as there are many punishments that will be meted out, from social isolation to eternal damnation.

The morality of not protecting that unborn child whose mother has lost employment and health care is again striking in this affair. Some of the ACA was resisted for providing birth control. I can't believe how backwards this country is becoming, right before our eyes.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:23 PM

24. "the fact that some portion of her salary came from tax subsidies"

 

Well, maybe or maybe not. Subsidies to private schools are usually for things like reduced lunches, special-ed/counselors and other things.

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Response to midwest irish (Reply #24)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:33 PM

27. Churches get tax money for faith-based social programs. It's all mixed in, can't be accounted for.

Because they don't pay taxes, there is no IRS to go over these records. They may argue among those who run things, but it's not the same standard. Although I'm sure she paid taxes.

My point is really, without arguing with anyone who wants to defend what the churches do such persons, is that she is a human being first, a citizen second, and a taxpayer. As a citizen, she has rights that should not be abridged and I don't care who she works. She didn't break the law of the land, but the rules of an organization versus a private act protected by the Constitution.

I feel sorry for anyone who goes to work in a less than egalitarian, unaccountable to anyone but God or their CEO, organization that throws her out in what is now her time of need, as a mother who is pregnant with an unborn child. There is so much irony in this story a knife couldn't cut it.

While some support the churches in what they are doing because you say that tax monies are not all she got to run their program, that's a small point. This is taking money from people who do not believe, and their freedom of religion and freedom from religion is not being honored. There is a greater defintion of humanity than what is written down by private groups.


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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:19 PM

22. Joseph, The Patron Saint of Gullible Cuckolds

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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:59 PM

48. "God can do anything" ...

And is supposedly all powerful and all knowing ... The only thing I can take away from this ongoing, LIE, and completely ridiculous statement is that a KNOWING GAWD turned his back on thousands of child molestation victims for centuries and provided protection and a luxurious lifestyle for pedophiles ...

The disclaimer for all organized religions should read "GOD, guaranteed to look the other way and will even provide the getaway car and a defense for all child sex-abusers and wife beaters ... come on guys, pedophiles always welcome here ... YOUR secrets have always been OUR secrets" ...

Sickening ...

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:40 AM

11. All I can say is WOW, just wow! and it's not the Onion.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:19 PM

13. Here is one for a male teacher

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/catholic-teacher-s-remarriage-violated-morality-clause-official-testifies/article_3eb0e63e-4895-11df-986c-001cc4c002e0.html

I also heard of one many years ago where a male teacher was fired for getting a vasectomy. I don't remember how the school found out about this. The HS students walked out in protest and the parents refused to pay tuition until he was rehired. The teacher was reinstated, although he refused to return. The school eliminated their Morality Clause after all the very, very negative publicity it got. As one parent said to a reporter, "Let them count the number of sibllings of their students." "Why do think so many Catholic schools are closing for lack of students?"

Yeah, they will fire male teachers too. It's just more difficult to catch them for "immoral" behavior.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:20 PM

14. I am waiting for them

to start firing child rapists.

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Response to Kelvin Mace (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:33 PM

16. Tou mean like priests? But they're wedded and not pregnant.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:32 PM

15. Don't you get it? They didn't fire her because she was pregnant and unwed; they fired her for .....

being unwed and pregnant. Completely different circumstances.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:57 PM

18. There is a good reason to never consider any sectarian school for your child's education.

Several catholic schools are shutting down around the country due to a lack of funding.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:15 PM

20. Too bad she wasn't a pedophile. They would have given her a raise, a promotion and...

her own luxury apartment for life!!!

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:18 PM

21. Why didn't she just tell them that the Holy Ghost knocked her up?

They seem to go for that one.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:27 PM

25. Don't work for a Catholic School

and certainly don't sign that Morality Clause. Can you refuse? Maybe MORE should.

When I went to work for a public school in Florida, I refused to swear allegiance to the Florida State Constitution. I did swear to uphold the US Constitution. I was told that I wasn't the first person to do this, and wouldn't be the last. Hmm. After Florida changed their constitution to ban gay marriage, civil unions, domestic partnerships, AND any recognition of them, I am very happy I refused. I will not swear allegiance to bigotry and discrimination.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #25)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 06:28 PM

38. +1

The courts have shown they won't rule against this, and there have been plenty of other "immoral" teachers fired in the news from other states...

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:19 PM

29. Freedom Of Religion

Does not put the Church outside the boundaries of the law.

Compare and contrast the action of the Catholic Church here with how they treated pedophile Priests in their own flock (hint, they didn't fire them and instead shuffled them around and let them rape over and over and over again).

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #29)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 05:07 PM

36. That absolutist position has not been accepted in American law.

There are respects in which a church, or an individual religious practice, is outside the boundaries of the law, in the sense that religious exemptions are granted where secular ones would not be.

The Air Force prohibits uniformed personnel from wearing headgear that isn't part of the uniform. Orthodox Jewish men, required by their religion to wear a yarmulke, get an exemption. It doesn't matter how much I explain that the fervency of my devotion to the Red Sox is equivalent to that of a deeply religious person -- I still couldn't get an exemption for wearing a Red Sox cap.

The Amish have a religious objection to some aspects of Social Security. Furthermore, they have their own intra-community systems for ensuring that the elderly aren't destitute. Therefore, they get an exemption from paying FICA taxes. A group of collectivist-minded people who set up their own such system, however, would not get the FICA exemption, because their objection wouldn't be religious.

Looking at the Catholic Church itself, women aren't eligible to become priests. That's a clear discrimination in the terms and conditions of employment. Nevertheless, the equal employment opportunity laws are not applied to the Church. The Church's practice is based on a religious belief -- an archaic and irrational religious belief, but it's still religious, so it gets First Amendment protection.

There's a balancing here. There was a Muslim woman who said that being photographed with her face exposed violated her religious beliefs, so she wanted to wear a chador (covering most of her face) in her driver's license photo. She lost her case.

The absolutist positions -- never accommodate religion, and always accommodate religion -- both have the advantage of simplicity and clarity, but both have been rejected. What's left is that legislatures and courts must sometimes engage in the messy and imprecise business of trying to give reasonable accommodation to religious beliefs, so as not to infringe on the free exercise of religion, without unduly impairing important societal objectives and without unduly favoring religion by giving excessive privilege to religious views and practices.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #36)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 05:50 PM

37. What Is Absolutist Here

We actually don't have enough of the details to know which side of the Church/State boundary this case falls. Indeed, that is why it is in the courts. If this teacher is a Nun or teaches a religious class then I would clearly side with the Church. If this is a math teacher and not even a member of the Catholic Church then it should fall on the other side of the boundary.

I did think it was fair to compare and contrast what happens with a female teacher who happened to get pregnant versus a male Priest who happened to practice pedophilia.

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #37)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:43 PM

45. Here's what I was calling absolutist

You wrote: "Freedom of religion does not put the Church outside the boundaries of the law." I took that to mean that all laws (such as civil rights laws) should be enforced equally against the Catholic Church, regardless of the Church's religious doctrine.

I gather that I misunderstood you. You agree that freedom of religion does put the Church outside the boundaries of the law to some extent (for example, that the Church may refuse to admit women to the priesthood, even though a secular employer would not be permitted to engage in such discrimination). Therefore, we're in agreement that some civil laws apply fully to the Church, others don't, and one needs to consider all the facts of a particular case to determine which side of the line it falls on.

As for the distinction in how the Church treats wayward priests, it certainly shows hypocrisy, but its legal relevance is questionable. Even a secular employer might be able to argue: "We don't want that position filled by anyone who has openly and obviously flouted Church teaching. An unmarried woman who's pregnant is in that category. So is a man who's criminally convicted of pedophilia, or who boasts on his Facebook page about the number of women he's slept with, and we'd fire a guy like that, too. All these people are bad for our reputation, and we care only about the appearance of virtue, not about actual virtue." As a general rule, hypocrisy is not illegal.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #45)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:38 PM

49. The Church Was Being Absolutist

With their claim "Kathleen Quinlan’s court claims are barred by the First Amendment’s freedom of religion protections". They could even be right in this case but they are making no claim as to why this is the case and that is the reason behind my comment. Not said but relevant, does this same policy also apply to male staff that impregnate a woman out of wedlock. If they don't then that would severely weaken their case for dismissal as that exposes the rule to be in violation of federal law.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:41 PM

30. And then they wonder why a woman would choose to have an abortion.

They have just taught their students that the thing to do is to quietly terminate a pregnancy so they can keep their job and get on with life.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:08 PM

31. So now this woman and her child have no paycheck and no benefits.

Jesus would be proud.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:15 PM

32. She will go bankrupt paying for the birth

 

that is very Christian on them.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:10 PM

33. Priests Molest Children & They Are Allowed To Continue In Ministry . . .

Last edited Sun Mar 10, 2013, 03:16 AM - Edit history (3)

. . . time and time again. Meanwhile, the Catholic faithful who complain too loudly about child rape are routinely rebuked for being too censorious, uncompromising and uncivil. They are sternly reminded that "ours is a forgiving religion" and that (in the words of the authoritarian, male patriarchy that comprises the hierarchy) they need to "move on" and not "further injure the Church" with their plaintive bleatings about predatory, liver-spotted old men fucking prepubescent boys who fall under their control and influence.

To review: Unwed female teacher gets pregnant--fired for violating "moral's clause."

Priests (and oftentimes bishops involved in the cover-up) guilty of serial child molestation? Allowed to continue for years, decades in ministry; oftentimes allowed to retire in pensioned peace. Rarely "laicized" (kicked out of the Church).
.........................................

Gimme That Good Old-Time Religion -- Song lyrics by Jim Reeves

Gimme that old time religion
Gimme that old time religion
Gimme that old time religion
It's good enough for me.

It was good for the Hebrew children
It was good for the Hebrew children
It was good for the Hebrew children
It's good enough for me.

Gimme that old time religion
Gimme that old time religion
Gimme that old time religion
It's good enough for me.

It was good for dad and mother
It was good for dad and mother
It was good for dad and mother
And it's good enough for me.

Gimme that old time religion
Gimme that old time religion
Gimme that old time religion
It's good enough for me.

It will do when I am dyin'
It will do when I am dyin'
It will do when I am dyin'
It's good enough for me.

Gimme that old time religion
Gimme that old time religion
Gimme that old time religion
It's good enough for me.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:46 PM

34. It would be agreeable IF...

 

...the Archdiocese in no way received public, taxpayer monies.

As this is unlikely, if religious institutions wish to have such morality clauses - which is entirely agreeable - they should conform to public law and norms or forever forfeit the privilege of receiving said tax-payer support.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 06:35 PM

39. As an editor, that headline makes me grind my teeth...

...and not just because of the so-called morality clause. It should have been unwed pregnant teacher or pregnant unwed teacher -- NO COMMAS. But I'm finding more and more newspapers (and even some books) contain those kinds of errors.

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:20 PM

41. Fired for not having a secret abortion. What a fine example they set for unwed mothers.

Just think if Mary had been employed at their school. Jesus might never have been born

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Response to midwest irish (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:31 PM

44. And by the way...THIS is why I am not a Catholic.

Even though almost the entire rest of my family is. I went to a Catholic School for one year when I was 13. It made me a confirmed atheist. The way the nuns sucked up the the priest was pitiful. And the way they all attempted to guilt trip the kids was shameful. It could have been some sort of sci-fi Nazi brainwash camp. The head nun at the school was a sadist who got her jollies terrorizing kindergarten kids. Proudest day of my life was when my mom went to school and chewed the head nun out for the way she treated the students. Go mom!

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