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Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:27 AM

Several Dead In Southern California Shooting Spree

Source: Associated Press

TUSTIN, Calif. (AP) -- A chaotic 25-minute shooting spree through Orange County early Tuesday left a trail of dead and injured victims before the shooter stopped and killed himself, police said.

There were at least six crime scenes, Orange County sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino told KNBC-TV.

--clip
Officers found one dead person and one wounded at State Route 55 and McFadden Street, two shot and wounded at Interstate 5 and Red Hill Avenue, and one dead at Del Amo Boulevard and Edinger Avenue. The alleged shooter then drove to the intersection of Wanda Road and Katella Avenue and shot himself in the middle of the intersection, Kanoti said.

The conditions of the wounded victims were unknown.

It is possible more people were shot at because some people may have chased the shooter, Kanoti said.

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CALIFORNIA_SHOOTING_SPREE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-02-19-11-13-14

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Arrow 118 replies Author Time Post
Reply Several Dead In Southern California Shooting Spree (Original post)
Purveyor Feb 2013 OP
samsingh Feb 2013 #1
Botany Feb 2013 #2
sasha031 Feb 2013 #3
elfin Feb 2013 #11
onehandle Feb 2013 #4
Remmah2 Feb 2013 #12
Light House Feb 2013 #5
Botany Feb 2013 #6
Light House Feb 2013 #9
Helen Reddy Feb 2013 #13
Bay Boy Feb 2013 #85
Myrina Feb 2013 #16
Botany Feb 2013 #22
hack89 Feb 2013 #23
Botany Feb 2013 #26
hack89 Feb 2013 #27
Botany Feb 2013 #28
hack89 Feb 2013 #29
Botany Feb 2013 #31
hack89 Feb 2013 #32
Botany Feb 2013 #34
derby378 Feb 2013 #38
hack89 Feb 2013 #93
primavera Feb 2013 #80
hack89 Feb 2013 #89
primavera Feb 2013 #113
hack89 Feb 2013 #114
hack89 Feb 2013 #91
Botany Feb 2013 #96
hack89 Feb 2013 #97
primavera Feb 2013 #103
Botany Feb 2013 #104
hack89 Feb 2013 #105
primavera Feb 2013 #102
goclark Feb 2013 #68
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #55
hack89 Feb 2013 #57
IveWornAHundredPants Feb 2013 #62
hack89 Feb 2013 #65
mokawanis Feb 2013 #70
hack89 Feb 2013 #71
Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #81
bitchkitty Feb 2013 #83
hack89 Feb 2013 #87
Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #106
friendly_iconoclast Feb 2013 #108
Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #109
hack89 Feb 2013 #112
Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #115
hack89 Feb 2013 #116
Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #117
hack89 Feb 2013 #118
hack89 Feb 2013 #110
Doctor_J Feb 2013 #73
sofa king Feb 2013 #7
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #10
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #8
Helen Reddy Feb 2013 #14
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #15
eilen Feb 2013 #66
FarCenter Feb 2013 #17
baldguy Feb 2013 #18
Iggo Feb 2013 #19
krispos42 Feb 2013 #59
Iggo Feb 2013 #63
valerief Feb 2013 #20
goclark Feb 2013 #21
hack89 Feb 2013 #24
Hoyt Feb 2013 #54
hack89 Feb 2013 #56
Hoyt Feb 2013 #58
hack89 Feb 2013 #60
spin Feb 2013 #82
Hoyt Feb 2013 #84
spin Feb 2013 #100
Dakotacrat Feb 2013 #61
hack89 Feb 2013 #64
morningfog Feb 2013 #77
hack89 Feb 2013 #90
goclark Feb 2013 #67
hack89 Feb 2013 #69
Doctor_J Feb 2013 #74
hack89 Feb 2013 #75
Doctor_J Feb 2013 #76
hack89 Feb 2013 #92
Doctor_J Feb 2013 #98
hack89 Feb 2013 #99
morningfog Feb 2013 #78
Botany Feb 2013 #79
hack89 Feb 2013 #86
hack89 Feb 2013 #94
midwest irish Feb 2013 #25
Hugabear Feb 2013 #30
smirkymonkey Feb 2013 #72
Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #33
Purveyor Feb 2013 #35
devilgrrl Feb 2013 #36
Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #37
devilgrrl Feb 2013 #39
Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #40
devilgrrl Feb 2013 #41
Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #42
devilgrrl Feb 2013 #44
Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #46
devilgrrl Feb 2013 #48
Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #50
devilgrrl Feb 2013 #51
Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #52
devilgrrl Feb 2013 #53
Ash_F Feb 2013 #95
derby378 Feb 2013 #43
devilgrrl Feb 2013 #45
Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #47
devilgrrl Feb 2013 #49
treestar Feb 2013 #88
valerief Feb 2013 #101
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #107
lib2DaBone Feb 2013 #111

Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:34 AM

1. more guns deaths.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:34 AM

2. How many more?

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:36 AM

3. I just turned on CNN, no mention of it

gun deaths are no longer breaking news.

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Response to sasha031 (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:56 AM

11. Don't know, but if "gang related", not as "newsworthy?" Eom

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:37 AM

4. It's the price of keeping King George off our asses.

Has King George invaded recently?

Done and done!

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Response to onehandle (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:09 PM

12. Actually not.

 

It's obviously working.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:39 AM

5. Just another typical day in gun crazy America.

 

When is this country going to get serious about effective gun control?

Nothing on CNN, MSNBC or FAUX about it. Is this for real? Seems to be but it must be a local thing and none of the networks have picked up on it yet.

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Response to Light House (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:48 AM

6. And look at these American "Freedom Fighters" getting weapons to help keep us all free.



But please don't think about that their 2nd amendment rights are trumping
our 1st amendment right to be able to peacefully assemble.

******
BTW from the story @ least 2 dead and an unknown # of wounded
not counting the shooter who committed suicide to end the madness.


******

now at least 4 dead

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Tustin-Orange-County-Freeway-Shootings-191813631.html

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Response to Botany (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:51 AM

9. I went to a gun show one time just out of curiosity

 

was there for about 20 minutes and then left. Some of the people there scared the hell out of me and I don't scare very easily.

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Response to Light House (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:18 PM

13. I can relate.

 

I attended what was a flea market near Milwaukee last year. Much to my surprise, it was a gun show with a few folks selling trinkets and such.

Other than being shocked and mortified at the chat where manly men and guns are involved, the lobby full of men celebrating a birthday for a daughter had a cake with Barbie(s) holding assault rifles and other guns being the candles.

Wow.

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Response to Helen Reddy (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 01:23 PM

85. Did the gun candles scare you?

Or was it the Barbies?

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Response to Botany (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:45 PM

16. Sure is interesting that they're never around

... Ready to save the day with their trusty weapon when some cuckoo nut is shooting up someplace. Probably pissing their pants in corner. Armchair Warriors.

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Response to Myrina (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:24 PM

22. the total # of public shootings that have been stopped by a civilian who was packing in America is

... zero and every state except for Illinois has concealed carry laws.

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Response to Botany (Reply #22)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:23 PM

23. How are you defining "public shootings"?

because there are many cases of people with concealed carry guns stopping violent crimes in public.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:38 PM

26. not one case of what they call a mass shooting* .... either shooting strangers or co-workers has ...

... ever been stopped by a c.c.w. person.


* Sandy Hook (Newton), Aurora CO, Portland OR, Columbine CO, Webster NY,
Virginia Tech, the Sikh Temple in Oak Creek WI, and on and on.

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Response to Botany (Reply #26)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:41 PM

27. Mass shooting are extremely rare

as opposed to the daily grind of violent crime where concealed carry is more likely to come into play.

Secondly - the only reason for concealed carry is self defense as a last resort. If I was in a mass shooting situation I would be thinking like everyone else - get the hell to safety. Only if I had no other choice would I consider shooting. I certainly would not consider running towards the shooter.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:06 PM

28. "Mass shooting are extremely rare"

like the one this morning? Or the one @ the KY community college in Jan? Or the one
on Xmas Eve in Webster NY? Or the one in Newton, CT? They have become way to common
I doubt that this shooting will even be a blip on the media's radar and will be forgotten by the
time we have another one in a week or so.

The #s and stats show that if you own a gun it is far more likely to be used on yourself or
somebody you know then stopping a bad guy.

Bottom line it is the guns. Anything else is just talk. The states with the highest per capita
# of guns lead the nation in gun deaths ... the states w/tighter guns laws and a lower per capita
gun ownership # are the lowest in gun deaths.

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Response to Botany (Reply #28)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:10 PM

29. Compared to everyday violent crime it is .

Many more people are killed in non-mass shootings.

The bottom line is gun violence is at historic lows - we have cut our murder and manslaughter rate in half since 1992. The number of gun murders has been cut significantly in the same time frame. You have never been safer.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #29)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:22 PM

31. oh for the love of dog

just because we have more "everyday killings" then mass public killings
doesn't mean crap .... dead is dead and to deny that the proliferation of
guns doesn't lead to proliferation of gun tragedies is pure sophistry.

"You have never been safer." please!



20 babies were cut down by a weapon of war and all you can do is give talking points?

BTW the AR 15 (bushmaster) that was used in Newton is a civilian version of the M-16
and shoots a .223 round @ >3,000 ft per second that is designed to tumble when it hits
a person which causes massive trauma and if the person does not get help they will go into
shock and die. It has no business being in civilian hands.

Look how safe this Newton, CT mother is with the lower # of gun deaths.

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Response to Botany (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:31 PM

32. So hard facts and actual statistics are of no use for you?

at least you are honest in your disdain.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #32)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:39 PM

34. Look how safe the baby from Newton, CT is inside his or her coffin.



http://www.vpc.org/press/1302gundeath.htm hard stats the more guns per capita
the more gun deaths that will happen.

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Response to Botany (Reply #34)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:36 PM

38. Neither VPC nor the NRA are "honest brokers"

If you want a more impartial figure of homicides involving firearms, I'd go with the FBI or the DOJ.

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Response to Botany (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 02:28 PM

93. Except more guns have not led to more killings

gun violence including mass shootings have not been steadily increasing as the number of guns has increased.

BTW - banning AR-15s will not stop mass shootings. Have you forgotten Va Tech? Handguns kill thousands more people than rifles.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:45 AM

80. Actually, I have been safer...

... when I lived in Europe where they have strict gun control laws and per capita gun death rates that are but a tiny fraction of what ours is.

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Response to primavera (Reply #80)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 01:55 PM

89. There are many places in America just as safe as Europe

where I live for example - two gun murders in 12 years.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #89)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:31 PM

113. Irrelevant

No doubt in the middle of war-torn Yugoslavia, there were pockets where violence did not occur. That didn't make Yugoslavia a safe place to be.

Gun violence need not occur in every place at every moment in order to reach the conclusion that gun violence is a serious problem. And, when - overall - the US boasts per capita gun death rates that are many times greater than in other developed nations, that's a pretty good tip off that we're doing something wrong.

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Response to primavera (Reply #113)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:39 PM

114. It is not if those pockets are persistent

while other larger areas are persistently less dangerous. It indicates that there are unique factors - factors that distinguish those areas from safe areas and suggest specific tailored solutions to solve the gun violence problem.

No one is saying it is not a serious problem - the discussion is how to fix it.

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Response to primavera (Reply #80)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 02:18 PM

91. So do you think their social, education, employment and healthcare policies played a role

or was it just guns?

Is the only difference gun laws?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #91)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 03:51 PM

96. "or was it just guns?"

Yes, it is the guns. Period, end of story. Nobody can be shot with a gun if their is no
gun there with which to shoot them with. If we have such a problem with mental illness
why is the NRA fighting so hard to make it easy for mentally ill people to get guns?
I am sick to death of people yammering about their "Constitutional Freedoms with double
heaping scoop of Liberty Berries on top" and those freedoms are from their 2nd amendment
right to keep and bear arms which has resulted in a proliferation of guns which in turn has
caused a proliferation of gun deaths. What about my 1st amendment right to peacefully
assemble such as taking my child to school, or going to movie, or Xmas shopping? That
right is being pissed on by gun nuts and the NRA who have made it too easy to get guns
same as all of our basic rights from the preamble to the Declaration of Independence about
life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness which all go to shit when somebody is murdered w/
a gun.

Since Sandy Hook we have had more gun deaths then the U.K., Ireland, Germany, Poland, Norway,
Sweden, Canada, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand have in a whole year.

I have hunted and owned guns for over 30 years and I am sick of this shit. If you can not change
after seeing 20 babies murdered then I am not comfortable with the idea of you owning just
1 gun let alone many of them along with assault weapons because I see a love of "the gun" in you
far greater then a love for your fellow man."

But I will see you the very next time when (not if) we have another mass public shooting trying
to distract from the simple but very true idea ..... IT IS THE GUNS.



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Response to Botany (Reply #96)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 03:57 PM

97. So what laws do you want to see?

I support the president's EOs, universal background checks and limits on magazine size. What else would you like to see happen?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #97)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:03 PM

103. I, for one...

... would be pleased to see the president's recommendations adopted, they seem pretty reasonable to me and offer a decent chance of favorably impacting gun violence. I don't know for certain that they will solve every problem, but they seem like a reasonable place to begin. Yet all we hear from the gun community these days is how the evil President Satan is coming to take away their guns and they all need to form citizen armies in preparation for the impending civil war. There doesn't seem to be much room for negotiation or, well... sanity, in that community.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #97)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:12 PM

104. e.z. my laws

no more gun shows where any idiot can buy a gun w/no checks
if you want an assault rifle and you are not in the military or police then you
have failed my own mental "soundess" test and so you can not have one
you can not buy ammo on line
if you think owning a gun makes you safer then you are not mentally sound enough to have one
no silencers
no assault weapons ..... Mr. Kalashnikov invented them during WW II in some of the
most hellish battles ever .... Stalingrad and Leningrad .... we made our version the M 16
for war too the have zero business in civilian hands. At semi automatic they are more deadly
then fully automatic because you don't burn through clips as fast and you slow down and aim each
round
limit magazines to 6 rounds on target ranges ... 3 when hunting
if you think that the UN or big government is coming to get you and you have to "prep for the
busy times" and you have a "bug out bag" then you shouldn't own a gun
if you think just because urban areas have many gun crimes that we shouldn't have any kind of
common sense gun laws because "after all my county only had 2 murders last year" laws then I don't want you
owning a gun
if you repeat NRA talking points then I don't want you to have a gun
if you think all the gun deaths are just a price we have to pay for freedom then I don't want you to
own a gun
if you do not understand that it is all the guns that are causing all the gun deaths then I don't want
you to own one.
if because of your job or because of threats against you or your family you have to have a firearm then
fine but if you just want to be ccw dude because it makes you feel good then I don't want you to own
a gun
if you can not understand the 2nd amendment then I don't want you to own a gun
if you believe that the killings in Newton, CT are just a P.R. problem and that given time "they will blow
over" then you shouldn't own a gun
if you are crazy you should not be able to get a gun
if you are ok w/ having driver's licenses, auto tags, and insurance to operate a car is OK but
a gun d-base is just wrong then I don't want you to own a gun

I have hunted and owned guns for 30 years and enough is enough .... it is time to stop the madness.







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Response to Botany (Reply #104)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 09:35 PM

105. Ok nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #91)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:59 PM

102. Certainly, very few problems in life are the result of just one single cause

Undoubtedly conditions in Europe are less conducive to violence than conditions here are. I think it's also safe to say that part of the reason they have fewer gun deaths is because their cultures don't grow up glorying Hollywood heroes like John Wayne and Charles Bronson and Chuck Norris and Clint Eastwood and so on, who individually solve problems, overcome all obstacles, and right all wrongs with the help of their trusty six shooter when the system fails to mete out justice. In contrast to European culture, US culture glamorizes vigilantism and lethal responses with... guns. Guns in our culture are worshipped; in European culture, they are not. I'm sure that has a lot to do with it. I'm also sure that having fewer guns available, and stricter regulation over who can have them also makes a difference. I can't speak for other gun control advocates, but I seldom hear any of them claim that the existence of guns is the one and only causal factor behind our culture of violence. But simply because guns are not the sole cause does not mean that they are not an important contributing factor deserving of attention.

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Response to Botany (Reply #28)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 06:59 PM

68. Yes!!!

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Response to hack89 (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:48 PM

55. If you are armed (because you want to guard against mass shootings) and you are

confronted by a mass shooter, you sort of have to put your money where your mouth is, try to kill him, and NOT RUN AWAY. Otherwise all your yammering about how people need to arm themselves to prevent mass shootings is just so much HORSE MANURE.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #55)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:07 PM

57. Only a fool with a concealed gun would try to take on a mass shooter

I have never advocated that - unless the perfect shot presented itself it is a good way to get killed.

When I carry (which is very seldom) I carry only to protect myself and my family. And shooting is an act of last resort. I would be running with everyone else.

You need to stop constructing strawmen.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #57)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:57 PM

62. What are you protecting them against, then?

Tornadoes?

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Response to IveWornAHundredPants (Reply #62)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 10:17 PM

65. Muggers and other street criminals mainly

my wife's job sometimes takes her into the bad parts of town. I pick her up if she is there after dark.

Mass shooters are rare. Violent street criminals are not.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #65)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 07:43 PM

70. I have to ask

has there been an instance where you actually needed the gun for self-defense?

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Response to mokawanis (Reply #70)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 08:01 PM

71. Only once and I didn't have to shoot

I just gave them a look at my holstered gun and they left. Most defensive gun uses do not involve shooting - criminals are not stupid and will simply go look for an easier mark.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #71)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 12:18 PM

81. Somebody cut in line at the bank, did they?

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #81)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 01:07 PM

83. LOL! n/t

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #81)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 01:52 PM

87. Attempted robbery. nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #87)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:47 PM

106. Did you draw down on the perp and hold him/her for the police.

Seems odd you would only flash a holster to someone attempting to rob you.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #106)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 02:59 AM

108. That would be illegal- CCW holders are not cops

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #108)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 06:45 AM

109. So someone "attempts" a robbery and you can't hold them for the cops?

Just trying to visualize what infraction could cause a flash of a holster and not a draw and detainment.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #109)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:25 PM

112. Once they turn to run, what do you do? Shot them in the back?

The purpose of the gun is self defense, not to play cop. Cops are trained to detain crooks - let them do it.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #112)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:53 PM

115. If someone attempts a felony on my person and I'm armed, I'm drawing the weapon.,

No one says you have to shoot the person if they don't comply with your lawful order. I mean lawful because they just attempted to rob you.

If it wasn't enough a crime or danger to draw your weapon, then it probably wasn't enough of a threat to flash your weapon either.

I'm going with bank line.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #115)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:16 PM

116. Of course you would. You are nothing but predictable.

is it really unreasonable to think that someone would act differently than you in a stressful situation? That perhaps they had different priorities than you? That they are not as brave, or courageous or resourceful as you are and simply wanted the robbers to go away?

Of course not - it is much easier to find a reason to call me a liar. Which was your intent all along.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #116)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:45 PM

117. I'm not calling you a liar.

But your story doesn't pass the sniff test.

Perhaps you were really afraid.

I just think maybe somewhere on some other discussion board some poor sap is telling a story about how some guy flashed his gun at him for walking past him or behind him on the street.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #117)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 03:34 PM

118. So because I was not acting like a cowboy or a vigilante

it doesn't pass the sniff test? Really?

Because I showed restraint - is that it? Because we all know that gun owners don't do restraint?

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #106)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 07:38 AM

110. I flashed my gun

they immediately turned to run away. I wasn't going to shot them in the back.

I just wanted them to leave us alone.

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Response to Myrina (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:26 AM

73. Don't forget how they're going to protect us from tyranny

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:49 AM

7. Reprehensible, but why?

Of all crimes, treating humans as unimportant props in one's personal rampage must rank among the worst. I do not think I am the only person who somehow "knows" this with a strange certitude that might suggest a biological impulse.

I wonder if that is why such actions are so eerily entertaining in video games, yet emotionally damaging enough in real life to virtually guarantee the suicide of the spree killer, if given the chance.

The vast majority of humans seem to have an innate aversion to killing other humans, one that can be duped or temporarily overcome through drill and conditioning, or furious anger, but which cannot be easily forgotten or dealt with emotionally after the incident.

This makes me wonder whether spree killers require a certain set of circumstances and prior experiences which increase the likelihood of an outburst.

Is anyone keeping up with the literature on this? I'd like to know what psychologists and psychiatrists think about this behavior.

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Response to sofa king (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:52 AM

10. Armchair guess here, but it seems likely that it's a (sick & twisted) way to assert control

when you feel like you have little or none.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:50 AM

8. The gun nuts took away the dead Americans' freedom. The freedom to live.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:19 PM

14. Off this topic but...

 

your penguins crack me up every time I see one of your posts!

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Response to Helen Reddy (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:26 PM

15. Thanks!

I get a lot of positive comments about them. The poor slappee looks so sincere and earnest just waddling along minding his own business, and then ...

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 07:07 AM

66. That is a Charlie Brown Penquine. lol --on topic--> these shootings

always seem to involve the shooter shooting themselves. I kind of scratch my head when CC enthusiasts insist they need to carry to protect themselves and others and yet..... they really don't in these circumstances and when these events happen my gun nut friend always posts something about how this wouldn't have happened if the public was armed. Well, gun nut friend, they are armed. Apparently they have decided to allow the trained policemen (okay, there is some debate about that in light of recent LA police actions) to handle this.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:49 PM

17. Authorities: 4 dead in California shooting spree

TUSTIN, Calif. (AP) -- A shooting spree through Orange County, Calif., left four people dead Tuesday, including the shooter, and several others injured.

The shootings began at 4:45 a.m. when deputies responding to a call found a female shot multiple times in a house in Ladera Ranch, said Orange County sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino.

Three more people were fatally shot in the next 25 minutes after carjackings in Tustin and Santa Ana, according to the Orange County Register (http://bit.ly/12HgccN ).


Looks like a domestic shooting followed by a shooting spree.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:54 PM

18. Thank you, all you RW moron gun nuts.

Last edited Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:56 PM

19. Where were all the goodguyswithguns?

MORE GUNS, DAMMIT!!!! ARM THE GOODGUYS!!!

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Response to Iggo (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:16 PM

59. Not allowed in California.

You can't effectively bar people from carrying guns, then claim that the lack of people with guns to stop a shooting is proof people with guns won't stop shootings.

Guess what, you got what you wanted... nobody in.a position to endanger the public when somebody is committing a violent crime.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #59)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 10:06 PM

63. Damn near.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:07 PM

20. If only it had been raining guns, this could have been prevented.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:20 PM

21. wild wild west

Am I missing something or has gun violence become...OK

It seems to be getting worse by the second.

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Response to goclark (Reply #21)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:26 PM

24. Gun violence is actually at a 30 year low

all violent crime is for that matter - it peaked in 1992 with the height of the crack epidemic and has steadily decline ever since.

We have cut our murder and nonnegligent manslaughter rate in half.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls

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Response to hack89 (Reply #24)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:29 PM

54. Yet, the gun culture still promotes more guns in more places..

Think how low crime might be if you guys had allowed restrictions decades ago.

Fortunately, other factors have worked to impede crime, but not the gun culture BS and the armed yahoos standing in line at Chuck E Cheese.

So to keep you guys happy, we'll do nothing and watch gun culture add another 100 million guns to their gun caches over next decade.

Sooner or later, we'll have to bite the bullet like Australia in 1996.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #54)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:03 PM

56. And what happens when gun violence continues to decline?

what then? You will have even fewer reasons to ban them.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #56)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:14 PM

58. Fortunately, vast majority don't need them or accept the bad things that happen because of them.

Violent crime will be even lower without more and more guns, and gun cultists.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #58)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:19 PM

60. You keep believing that if it makes you feel better.

time will tell.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 12:46 PM

82. Both the gun rights groups and the gun control supporters push the misconception ....

that we are right in the middle of a violent crime epidemic.

It's hard to promote the sale of firearms by saying that violent crime is now at a 40 year low. It's also difficult to push for draconian gun laws when you first admit that we have witnessed a steady decrease in gun violence.

The interesting fact is that in recent years the sale of firearms has skyrocketed. Since Florida passed "shall issue" concealed carry in 1987, similar laws have swept across our nation. Today tens of millions of honest citizens have licenses to carry and many do on a regular basis.

It is impossible to prove that more guns = less crime, but it should be fair to say that more guns have not led to an increase in violent crime.

A significant percentage of gun violence in our nation is due to turf warfare between completing drugs gangs who profit from our failed War on Drugs. Chicago is a prime example. The legalization of some drugs such as marijuana might reduce gun violence far more than another Assault Weapons Ban. Improvements to our mental health care system could help reduce tragic massacres.

I feel we can improve our current gun laws and reduce gun violence further without banning any types of firearms or implementing gun control laws such as exist in Australia. It's my opinion that pushing for bans and excessively strong regulations only hamper any progress we could make.

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Response to spin (Reply #82)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 01:07 PM

84. Why not ban "assault" type weapons? If one is truly law-abiding and gives a dang about society,


it's a small price to pay, unless one is like these Michigan Militia Members and similar yahoos.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #84)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:13 PM

100. We could argue about this all day but the simple fact is that ...

another Assault Weapons Ban has hardly any chance of passing at the federal level in the near future. You can always push for one in your state if you wish.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #24)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:43 PM

61. And yet...

We still lead the globe in gun deaths.

The 30-year low is still too high.

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Response to Dakotacrat (Reply #61)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 10:14 PM

64. But it continues to decline

what other country has cut it's murder rate in half?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #64)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:05 AM

77. It just shows how grossly disproportionate we were and still are.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #77)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 02:16 PM

90. We have cut our murder and manslaughter rate in half since 1992

and they continue to decline. We are obviously doing something right.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #24)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 06:58 PM

67. The difference is that now

the media is reporting 24/7 the latest gun related
Wild Wild West situations. The tragic acts in 2012-13
have been front and center ....

Whatever the numbers-America is better than this. ...

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Response to goclark (Reply #67)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 07:35 PM

69. The biggest issue is mental health care

considering the majority of gun deaths are suicides. The other issue is criminals - finding a way to identify violent offenders and putting them away for a long time would be useful.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:28 AM

74. And yet we lead the world by a wide margin

I guess some peoples' definition of acceptable is different from others'

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #74)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:54 AM

75. There are many countries with higher levels of gun violence

I am assuming that "the world" to you means Europe?

Lets not forget two things - over half of gun deaths in America are suicides. There are countries with strict gun laws and much higher suicide rates - Japan is a perfect example.

Secondly, violence in America is not universally distributed. Most Americans live in towns where they are just as safe as any place in Euprope. As an example, in my area of 45,000 there have been exactly two gun murders in the 12 years I have lived here. Gun violence is concentrated in urban areas with high levels of poverty, drugs and gangs. See Chicago as a perfect example.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #75)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:03 AM

76. Sorry. I meant the civilized world

Though I am quite thrilled that we trail Mexico, Columbia and El Salvador in gun homicides

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #76)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 02:20 PM

92. We have cut our murder and manslaughter rates in half

we have seen drastic and steady declines in every facet of violent crime. And those rates continue to decline. We are getting where we need to be - is your complaint that we are not getting there fast enough?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #92)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 04:39 PM

98. We're not "getting" anywhere

we continue to have far more gun crime than any of the other civilized countries, and we always will as long as the gun nuts have a toe hold in our government. Just like the insurance companies have destroyed our chance of having decent health care, and the banksters ruined the chances of the average American having financial security, the gun culture has made the US a laughingstock. Every one of your stupid talking poiints in this threads has been shot down, and you continue to throw them out as if you hadn't even read the replies. You're no better than the Limbeciles who crow that we have the best health care in the world - regardless of the amount and clarity of the evidence against, they, and you, will always cling to the ridiculous.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #98)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 04:53 PM

99. So what is your solution?

what laws do you think we need?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #75)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:06 AM

78. You threw a lot of uncited stats out.

It would be helpful to back up the many claims in your post.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #75)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:28 AM

79. Just making stuff up again I see

"Gun violence is concentrated in urban areas with high levels of poverty, drugs and gangs."
Just because we have shootings in urban areas does not make rural or suburban areas
immune from the hideous disease of gun violence which takes 30,000 lives per year.

Newton, CT. 12/14/12, Webster, NY 12/24/12, & Hazard, KY 1/16/13 (all non urban areas w/recent
mass public killings)

Owning a gun does not make you or your family safer. The more guns a population has per
capita the more gun deaths they have per capita.

http://www.vpc.org/press/1302gundeath.htm

20 babies were killed w/a military assault weapon that shoots a .223 round @ >3,000 ft/sec
and is made to tumble after hitting a human which in turn causes massive trauma and if
if not treated shock and then death ... and yet gun nuts keep talking about their 2nd amendment
rights and freedoms?

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Response to Botany (Reply #79)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 01:37 PM

86. 20 shootings is a bad weekend in Chicago.

and mass shootings are a rare event.

I support all of.the President's EOs, universal background checks plus limits on magazine size so don't say I don't support gun gun control.

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Response to Botany (Reply #79)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 02:29 PM

94. So what are your solutions?

lets use Va Tech as the type of shooting we want to stop.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:33 PM

25. It is possible more people were shot at because some people may have chased the shooter, Kanoti said

 

Having the gun made it possible to shoot anyone in the first place. Anything beyond that point is superfluous .

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:16 PM

30. Fuck guns and anybody who defends them

Personally I find it disgusting that gun-lovers continue to cling to their precious assault weapons, high-capacity magazines, etc. It seems that every week or so we read about some new mass-shooting.

But yet Mr. NRA Gun-Lover insists that he needs to have his AR-15 with 30-round magazine in order to repel some mythical invasion.

-----
Just to be clear, because I know that there are gun-lovers who will nit-pick my post. I'm not saying that an AR-15 with 30-round magazine was used in this particular crime. It's the overall mentality of "gotta have my guns" that I despise.

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Response to Hugabear (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:11 AM

72. +10.000

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:35 PM

33. Need to read the manifesto before I pass judgment.

Need to know what celebrities, movies, and TV shows the shooter liked, and if the LAPD drove him/her to
a series of justifiable homicides.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #33)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:58 PM

35. +1 EOM

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #33)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #36)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:32 PM

37. I care about people who are murdered

in preference to people who murder them.

A difference lost on people like yourself.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #37)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #39)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:53 PM

40. Show me where I said everyone.

You can't, because your quote is rectally derived in an effort to mischaracterize what I actually said.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #40)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #41)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:01 PM

42. Here is the quote for people with better reading and comprehension skills than you:

"Face it, folks, the guy is pretty much what most people in SoCal are: narcissistic, celebrity-obsessed, vain, self-righteous, delusional, Facebook-centric, and hanging out at Big Bear. The only difference is that instead of kicking the tires at Fletcher Jones for fun, Dorner KILLS people. He has nothing to say, or he'd be saying it. "

And I stand by it, since I motherfucking live here.


Since you can't be trusted to make a fair and honest accusation, I won't address you again, but I certainly won't block you, either, because you have entered the realm of the comical.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #42)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #44)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:07 PM

46. No, it sounds like what you're really like.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #46)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #48)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:09 PM

50. It's Democratic Underground, not Bully People I Don't Like Underground. nt

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #50)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #51)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:15 PM

52. hah nt

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #52)


Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #42)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 02:35 PM

95. That isn't exactly a quote to be proud of....and spreading around.

toot

Edit - You posted this five days ago. I'm timely.

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Response to devilgrrl (Reply #41)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:03 PM

43. Knock it off, both of you

If you have to be mad at someone, there's always me.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #43)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #45)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:08 PM

47. Not all of DU. But clearly "all" vs "some"

is a distinction lost on you, which must be a scream to watch.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #47)


Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 01:55 PM

88. +1

After all, the cops are just another gang.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:42 PM

101. Alas, if only the shooting spree had guns!!!!

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:29 AM

107. Ashamed of my country ... yet again.

Fuck you, gun nuts!

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:08 AM

111. Another Manchurian Candidate on Prozac......

 

.....a shooter with ties to the CIA or the NSA or a Doctor who works for the CIA.

Why do you think the National Weather Service and the IRS just bought 2 billion rounds of .40 cal hollow point?

Hitler took all the guns away in 1938... the rest is history.

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