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Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:12 AM

Cosmos may be 'inherently unstable'

Source: BBC

Scientists say they may be able to determine the eventual fate of the cosmos as they probe the properties of the Higgs boson.

A concept known as vacuum instability could result, billions of years from now, in a new universe opening up in the present one and replacing it

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21499765



Cue all the jokes about not bothering to clean out the garage.

71 replies, 6462 views

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Arrow 71 replies Author Time Post
Reply Cosmos may be 'inherently unstable' (Original post)
DavidDvorkin Feb 2013 OP
snooper2 Feb 2013 #1
DavidDvorkin Feb 2013 #2
snooper2 Feb 2013 #3
cer7711 Feb 2013 #6
DavidDvorkin Feb 2013 #7
localroger Feb 2013 #36
Hugabear Feb 2013 #10
cpwm17 Feb 2013 #19
randome Feb 2013 #22
cpwm17 Feb 2013 #25
R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #70
Ian David Feb 2013 #20
joshcryer Feb 2013 #39
Ian David Feb 2013 #41
joshcryer Feb 2013 #43
Ian David Feb 2013 #44
JimDandy Feb 2013 #49
joshcryer Feb 2013 #50
Warpy Feb 2013 #51
JimDandy Feb 2013 #66
Dash87 Feb 2013 #31
derby378 Feb 2013 #32
Dash87 Feb 2013 #35
NoodleyAppendage Feb 2013 #42
longship Feb 2013 #4
99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #15
Remmah2 Feb 2013 #5
DavidDvorkin Feb 2013 #8
Remmah2 Feb 2013 #9
Wolf Frankula Feb 2013 #11
99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #12
DavidDvorkin Feb 2013 #16
Lint Head Feb 2013 #13
randome Feb 2013 #21
Lint Head Feb 2013 #23
99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #14
DavidDvorkin Feb 2013 #17
The2ndWheel Feb 2013 #18
DavidDvorkin Feb 2013 #30
The2ndWheel Feb 2013 #56
99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #47
cpwm17 Feb 2013 #53
Scootaloo Feb 2013 #52
zipplewrath Feb 2013 #24
99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #48
zipplewrath Feb 2013 #58
99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #59
cpwm17 Feb 2013 #60
99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #62
zipplewrath Feb 2013 #63
99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #64
zipplewrath Feb 2013 #65
Son of Gob Feb 2013 #67
99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #68
ThoughtCriminal Feb 2013 #26
Squinch Feb 2013 #27
They_Live Feb 2013 #28
grantcart Feb 2013 #29
derby378 Feb 2013 #33
slackmaster Feb 2013 #34
DavidDvorkin Feb 2013 #37
DaveJ Feb 2013 #38
joshcryer Feb 2013 #40
Dyedinthewoolliberal Feb 2013 #45
DavidDvorkin Feb 2013 #46
sakabatou Feb 2013 #54
struggle4progress Feb 2013 #55
dipsydoodle Feb 2013 #57
Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2013 #61
bemildred Feb 2013 #69
XRubicon Feb 2013 #71

Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:26 AM

1. So what happens to jesus when this new universe begins?

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:42 AM

2. Oh, my God! The article didn't even cover that!

It's enough to make one suspect that some cosmologists might actually not be Christians -- or even theists!

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:50 AM

3. Well it SHOULD!

people want answers!

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:10 PM

6. Here's What Happens:

A new Jesus opens up in the old one and replaces him.

Since the universe is really a multi-verse and there are literally an infinite number of possible realities this means, of course, that an infinite number of Jesuses open up in an infinite number of Jesuses: grumpy Jesus, gladiator Jesus, lazy lay-about wine-wasted Jesus, ad infinitum . . .

I loves me the new field of theological physics; it's such an exact, hard science. Once you take away the theological part . . .

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Response to cer7711 (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:12 PM

7. Ah! A New New Testament.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:01 PM

36. It's testaments all the way down. /nt

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Response to cer7711 (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:29 PM

10. Maybe there's just one Jesus, and he controls all of the multi-verse

With help from his special ring

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Response to cer7711 (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:25 PM

19. And with an infinite number of universes

we will be reincarnated an infinite number of times – guaranteed, since there will be an infinite number of conscious critters with brain processes sufficiently similar to our own to create identical consciousnesses.

Some claim that we have souls that die when our bodies die, thus preventing reincarnation. I don't believe in that woo, so I believe reincarnation must be possible.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:52 PM

22. If there is an infinite number of universes, then there is one with a god-like being who...

...has collected all the universes and placed them on a chain about his/her neck. So I don't believe in the infinite universe theory.

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Response to randome (Reply #22)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:13 PM

25. With an infinite number of universes

all things possible will happen an infinite number of times. Since gods are likely impossible, that can never happen.

I don't necessarily believe there are infinite universes at any given time, but I'm sure there are huge number, with an infinite number through infinite time.

Here’s astronomer Martin Reese’s reasoning for the existence of the Multiverse at 11:10 to 26:40 in video – ignore the rest:

I find it more than an impossible coincidence that I exist right now in the infinite time that has ever existed. I must be reincarnated.

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Response to cer7711 (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 10:26 PM

70. Infinity Jesus?


That's one mother of a big Jesus!

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:46 PM

20. Our entire Universe is instantly destroyed without warning. n/t

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Response to Ian David (Reply #20)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:53 PM

39. Minor correction, our entire universe is destroyed at the speed of light.

Which is equivalent to instantly destroyed since no one would no it was being destroyed.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #39)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:34 PM

41. No, it's destroyed instantaneously, without regard for the speed of light, everywhere,.

At least, according to one documentary I'd seen on The Science Channel.

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Response to Ian David (Reply #41)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 09:30 PM

43. This is the paper for the basis of the theory:

It has been known for about twenty years that for a low Higgs mass relative to the top quark mass, the quartic Higgs self-coupling runs at high energy towards lower values. At some point it would turn negative indicating that the vacuum is unstable. In other words the universe could in theory spontaneously explode at some point releasing huge amounts of energy as it fell into a more stable lower energy vacuum state. This catastrophe would spread across the universe at the speed of light in an unstoppable wave of heat that would destroy everything in its path.


http://blog.vixra.org/2011/12/04/what-would-a-higgs-at-125-gev-tell-us/

You wouldn't see it coming though. You wouldn't even know it happened. So basically, the idea of "instantaneous destruction" still is logical, but it'd still take 14+ billion years for the process to complete itself.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #43)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 09:53 PM

44. Okay, you've convinced me. n/t

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #43)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 01:46 AM

49. So it may have started already? n/t

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #49)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 02:56 AM

50. Yeah, or a billion years ago.

:O

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #49)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:36 AM

51. Well, we can only see in one direction along the time/space

continuum, backwards. The universe could be coalescing for another Big Bang and we'd still see a huge universe still flying apart because we can't see even milliseconds into the future.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #51)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 11:30 PM

66. The whole idea is very trippy.

Physics made simple enough for the average joe like me is exciting. Thanks!

JD

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:59 PM

31. He and Raptor Jesus, his arch-enemy and evil twin brother, have an epic battle?

Buddy Christ will be cheering from the sidelines.

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:07 PM

32. Will Cthulhu be the referee? (n/t)

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Response to derby378 (Reply #32)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:27 PM

35. Why yes, and his noodly highness can only be the chef.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #32)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:41 PM

42. Yep. I'll be there.

At the end of 10 iterations of universe recycling, I've decided that it will stop with a huge plate of pasta and planets only populated by pirates. Ramen.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:55 AM

4. Hopefully the new one won't have any Republicans.

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Response to longship (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:05 PM

15. and deadly weaponry is universally regarded as quaint and totally useless. ~nt

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:10 PM

5. The universe is unstable?

 

What an understatement.

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:13 PM

8. Also: There is no gravity. The Earth sucks.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:14 PM

9. I don't feel grounded anymore.............. nt

 

nt

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:41 PM

11. And Therefore

Talking Snake!

Wolf

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:59 PM

12. People are predicting apocalypses like there's no tomorrow. ~nt

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:17 PM

16. Ha!

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:02 PM

13. Wonder if each persons energy will come back a a different life form.

They say energy does not die it just changes form. I want to be a super hero.

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Response to Lint Head (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:51 PM

21. Or, if the Universe begins at the same point and with the same density as before...

...maybe it simply repeats itself in every aspect. In which case it would really suck to have lived a bad life.

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Response to randome (Reply #21)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:02 PM

23. That's interesting. Maybe it becomes an opposite universe.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:04 PM

14. All The Universe is, is pure consciousness

light & energy, which is all quite fungible & fluid, except for the
part that isn't.

I think this is what Buddha taught, and probably Jesus did too in
his own way.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:18 PM

17. What does that mean?

And how do you know that?

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:24 PM

18. Gunga galunga

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:20 PM

30. Ook.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #30)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 08:49 AM

56. Not a Carl Spackler fan?

[link:|

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 01:29 AM

47. Oh come on. whole books are written about what it "means"

.. and you want me to tell you what it "means", here in this post.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #47)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:04 AM

53. Whole books have been written on scientific subjects

I suggest you read some.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 04:33 AM

52. It means "I want to look deep and spiritually-ish on the internet"

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:11 PM

24. All screwed up

I think the thought keeps getting all screwed up. Karma was probably closer than the Golden Rule.

That which you do to the least of US, you do to all of us, including yourself.

Or to correct Spock. There is no difference between the needs of the many, and the needs of the few, or the one. What happens to one, happens to all. What one needs, we all need.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 01:32 AM

48. How about Quantum Physics?

It's all the same stuff, Carl Jung, Buddha, and Quantum Physics are all in the
same ballpark.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 04:19 PM

58. Good point

At some point I suspect Quantum Mechanics will demonstrate that everything is ultimately connected.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #58)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 07:13 PM

59. +10

Is interesting how some scoff at the very mention of such things,
I suppose out of a knee-jerk reaction, that it's too "spiritual" or
"not real science" .. even when real science discovers that, you
know what? Buddha was actually correct about some important
stuff. Einstein was certainly onto it big-time.

The bogus pitting of scientific truth v. spiritual truth against
one another, has put our collective psyche into a choke-hold for
nearly a century now.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #59)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 07:27 PM

60. This is a liberal discussion forum

You laid on the non-scientific woo pretty thick, and then you attacked the poster who asked you to explain yourself. Obviously you can't.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #60)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:14 PM

62. Forgive me if I choose not to presume

to explain Quantum Physics, Buddhism, and the life works of Carl Jung,
and how all three of these modes of awareness dovetail with one another,
providing scouts' reports and a roadmap for better understanding the
intimate interconnectedness of the Universe, and how human evolutionary
consciousness can become more self-directed, as in democratic, with
small d.

I must be a little "off" today, not to be able to do that in a single DU post.

My most insincere apologies to you and any other DUers who were expecting
me to deliver on that, and are so disappointed that they send me snide
comments.

My bad.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #62)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 11:23 AM

63. Relax

He's right, you're wrong. You understand something that isn't easily explained and you brought it up in a discussion forum. When queried about it, you best response was probably that it was far too broad of a topic for the forum. You're right, there's no way you could have covered the topic in this context, especially within this thread. But ya can't blame someone for askin'.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #63)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 12:22 PM

64. Assuming it was really a real question

and not a snark, that would be true.

I'm not convinced the question was sincere in the first place. If
I thought it was sincere, I probably would have gone to a little more
effort to provide some useful links or whatever.

If indeed I did get that "wrong", then I'd admit to being "wrong" a
bit more easily.

i mean, if someone is seriously interested in knowing about such
subjects, there is a thing called google, that people use for that.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #64)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 12:30 PM

65. Always a problem

That is a constant problem in these mediums. Do you presume that questions are genuinely asked? There is the "troll question". There is the "leading" question. There are questions that appear rhetorical. And of course my favorite, the question that is grounded in assumptions that are wrong or unestablished. Spend a week in the Gungeon (heck, spend an hour) and you'll get 'em all.

But I do tend to give a huge benefit of the doubt, especially when I know I'm being fairly obtuse or have unique/special/uncommon/detailed knowledge. And have "paid for it" more than once.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #48)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 06:08 AM

67. Don't forget Scott Bakula.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #67)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 06:40 AM

68. I haven't

Actually, I AM Dr. Sam Beckett, but please don't tell anyone, ok?

I'm supposed to be undercover in this dimension, for now.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:16 PM

26. Vacuum State Instability

The ultimate doomsday machine would tear us a new one.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:31 PM

27. If you just keep the glass chilled and use a good cranberry juice, they stay fine.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:35 PM

28. what can I do to protect

my record collection?

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:45 PM

29. don't tell Cliffordu


After 40 years he is just getting comfortable with the Big Bang.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:11 PM

33. Remember that song lyric from Ozzy Osbourne?

"Swallowing the colors of the sound I hear?" In the new universe, you won't need drugs or synesthesia to pull that trick off!

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:19 PM

34. It's certainly important to consume them before entropy takes its toll

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #34)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:33 PM

37. That's the spirit.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:33 PM

38. Republicans will figure out how to destroy the universe before that happens.

Someone will propose free warp travel, then most likely they'll hold the universe hostage and blow it all up in a grande ideological statement.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:59 PM

40. Energy availablity is topped off at around 200 trillion years.

By then all visible galaxies will be long gone and all that will be left are black holes in a super galactic formation. In other words, the end, as we know it, is going to happen eventually. This is good news in some ways because it points to the possibility that the universe refreshes itself.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 10:31 PM

45. Great!

One more thing to worry about............

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #45)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 10:43 PM

46. You can put that off for a while

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:32 AM

54. So we may enter another universe when this one begins to die off.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:53 AM

55. "Yeah, I'm flakey and unstable -- but so is the rest of the cosmos! So gimme a break!"

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:06 AM

57. He never did look all that

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 08:36 PM

61. it's always been unstable

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #61)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 09:05 PM

69. +1 nt

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 10:59 PM

71. When i plug a negative number into my equation it works

That means it is true in reality.

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