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Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:09 PM

FBI: Ala. man engaged in 'firefight' with officers

Source: AP-Excite

By JAY REEVES and KATE BRUMBACK

MIDLAND CITY, Ala. (AP) - The man who held a 5-year-old boy captive for nearly a week engaged in a firefight with SWAT agents storming his underground bunker before he was killed during the rescue operation, the FBI said Tuesday night. Also, bomb technicians scouring the property found two explosive devices, one in the bunker, the other in a plastic pipe negotiators used to communicate with the man.

Officers killed 65-year-old Jimmy Lee Dykes Monday, said a law enforcement official in Midland City, speaking on condition of anonymity. The bunker raid came six days after Dykes boarded a school bus, fatally shot the driver and abducted the boy, who by all accounts was unharmed.

Dykes "reinforced the bunker against any attempted entry by law enforcement," FBI Special Agent Jason Pack said in an email. The devices found were "disrupted," Pack said, though he did not say whether that meant they were detonated or disarmed. Officers will continue into Wednesday to sweep the 100-acre property and when they finish, investigators can more thoroughly investigate, Pack said.

For days, officers passed food, medicine, toys and other items into the bunker, which was similar to a tornado shelter and apparently had running water, heat and cable television.

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20130206/DA48R8MG1.html





Dale County Sheriff Wally Olsen answers questions from the media about the close of the hostage crisis during a news conference late Monday, Feb. 4, 2013, in Midland City, Ala. Authorities stormed an underground bunker Monday in Midland City, freeing the 5-year-old boy and leaving his captor dead after a week of fruitless negotiations that left authorities convinced the child was in imminent danger. (AP Photo/AL.com, Jay Hare)

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply FBI: Ala. man engaged in 'firefight' with officers (Original post)
Omaha Steve Feb 2013 OP
cthulu2016 Feb 2013 #1
uppityperson Feb 2013 #2
apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #3
bench scientist Feb 2013 #7
JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2013 #18
onehandle Feb 2013 #4
apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #5
zabet Feb 2013 #33
brer cat Feb 2013 #6
B Stieg Feb 2013 #8
csziggy Feb 2013 #11
arely staircase Feb 2013 #31
csziggy Feb 2013 #32
ReRe Feb 2013 #9
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #10
tomm2thumbs Feb 2013 #12
nikto Feb 2013 #13
nikto Feb 2013 #14
olddad56 Feb 2013 #15
Blackjackdavey Feb 2013 #19
olddad56 Feb 2013 #24
Blackjackdavey Feb 2013 #30
Remmah2 Feb 2013 #20
Blackjackdavey Feb 2013 #22
olddad56 Feb 2013 #23
Blackjackdavey Feb 2013 #28
freshwest Feb 2013 #16
jberryhill Feb 2013 #26
freshwest Feb 2013 #29
EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #17
LanternWaste Feb 2013 #25
virgogal Feb 2013 #27
Myrina Feb 2013 #21
rgbecker Feb 2013 #34

Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:13 PM

1. He died doing what he loved shooting at government employees.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:23 PM

2. Not sure if I should laugh or cry.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:29 PM

3. +1. n/t.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:32 PM

7. you win the internets today !

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:35 AM

18. If a hidden OP could earn a DUzy, this would deserve both.

I'll leave it for someone else to alert on. It could be an interesting jury.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:29 PM

4. Plain ol' gun culture. nt

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:30 PM

5. I wonder what handle he posted under down in the Gungeon. n/t.

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Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:14 AM

33. Please tell me......

that you are not referring to the DUers that post here (on DU) in the gun forum. If you are, you should be ashamed for not keeping discussion about such a serious matter in a serious light. Snark definitely has its place and uses here on DU but, one would think that the serious issues we wish to change would be treated as such. Snark in this case only serves to make DU look like yahoo answers on steroid.....or like there are a bunch of snot-nosed pre-teens running rudely rampant around DU. Besides that, not every gun owner (many posters on DU are gun owners) is a mental break waiting to happen. Making the assumption that every gun owner is a nut just waiting to be shook out of the tree only serves to show the narrow-mindedness of your point of view is on the subject of gun ownership AND how narrow-minded your point of view is about mental health issues.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:32 PM

6. Once he took the child

he had to know he would never be allowed to walk away. It could have been the way he wanted to go.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:34 PM

8. I wonder...

...if. given SecDef Panetta's involvement (see full article), this operation won't turn out to be one of the first where drones were used by a domestic police agency.

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Response to B Stieg (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:13 PM

11. Probably not - many police forces have purchased drones

Why does a two-bit Alabama town have two spy drones?
The town of Gadsden, Ala., has 100,000 inhabitants and two UAVs. The police chief says he has no idea why, even though they've been there for two years. He claims they've never been used.

Chris Matyszczyk
by Chris Matyszczyk
May 2, 2012 10:51 AM PDT

The newspaper got its first clue when the FAA released a list of agencies it has certified to fly drones and unmanned aerial vehicles following a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. The Gadsden police department apparently turned up on that list.

Chief Crane didn't try to suggest that the drones didn't belong to his department, but, say, to Batman. No, he rushed to reassure the populace that the drones don't carry offensive weaponry. They were merely, you know, spy drones.

In fact they are Wasp Micro Air Vehicles, which merely have a wingspan of 72cm. Or 28.34 inches.

These things can only fly for three-quarters of a mile. Indeed, they are little more than the paper planes you made at school. You can launch them by hand.

More: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57426152-71/why-does-a-two-bit-alabama-town-have-two-spy-drones/


Some little podunk town has two drones - how many larger towns and cities have them and the incentive to actually use them?

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Response to csziggy (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:29 PM

31. probably relatively cheap (stimulus money to fight meth labs?)

eom

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #31)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:43 PM

32. The article I linked to said $150,000 each

So for the little town in the article (Gadsden, Alabama), $300,000 for two drones they've never taken out of the boxes. I wonder what better use that money could have gone to?

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:35 PM

9. Well... he got what he wished for...

...to go out in a blaze of good old glory. He could have done that without taking the bus driver with him, though. Thank God they got the baby out alive. Death is not cruel enough for these crazy SOBs.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:03 PM

10. Meanhile in Freeperville they ask "Why did the Feds have to be involved in the first place?...

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 11:58 PM

12. FoxNews loses another viewer -? no wonder their ratings are crashing


It's a wonder they have funds to run their studio with ads playing to folks that don't buy anything or support its sponsors.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:35 AM

13. This ended tragically--Before MORE GUNS could be brought in

More guns would have been the answer. But alas, they were not available.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:36 AM

14. GOP loses another voter

True, 'dat.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:05 AM

15. This guy is another example of a person in desperate need of

treatment for a mental illness, and not seeking help, and maybe not wanting help. It wouldn't have mattered if he would have wanted help or tried to seek help because it really isn't available. He might have gotten a prescription for some medication that might have masked away the symptoms, but for people like this guy, there is really no help available. We have so little practical knowledge about mental illness that millions of people are suffering and very few are being treated successfully. The psychiatrists and psychologists of today only know how to make diagnosis and prescribe medication. Talk therapy is not really of any value to people with true mental illness. Some good things are happening in the research of mental illness, but none of that is available to the people suffering.

I feel sorry for the family of the bus driver that this man killed. I feel sorry for the kids of this man, a for my own reasons I feel sorry of the guy was living with his mental illness.

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Response to olddad56 (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:38 AM

19. Mental health services

are indeed available -- I'm not sure what people mean when they say they are not. It is true that psychiatry as a discipline focuses exclusively on medications which are in fact highly effective in the treatment of paranoid delusions. However, that assumes that this man did have an axis 1 diagnosis rather than antisocial personality disorder. Additionally, mental health services are by and large voluntary -- someone with paranoid delusions is extremely unlikely to voluntarily seek services. However, if someone reported this man as potentially a danger to himself or others (which many people seemed to believe he was) he could have and here in my community -- extremely rural New York State -- he would have been picked up for an involuntary assessment. Other options then flow from that point forward. I honestly find it difficult to believe a similar system doesn't exist where this man lived. In fact, a cursory google search reveals SIX mental health oufits in the Midland City area.

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Response to Blackjackdavey (Reply #19)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:21 PM

24. just because 'mental health' facilities exist,

that doesn't mean he tried to seek help, or if he had, that doesn't mean they could have helped him. We are still in the dark ages when it comes to treating people who suffer from mental illness. Meds help relieve the symptoms, talk therapy makes the therapist feel like they are doing powerful work, but it really isn't effective in most cases. There are some interesting newer treatment modalities such and 'somatic healing' but they are not readily available to the average person. They are doing interesting things with brain scans for diagnosis and magnets for treatment, but they are not available.

Exactly what types of diagnostic equipment are available at the facilities that you mentioned? What types of treatment beyond medication and talk therapy are available?

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Response to olddad56 (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:17 PM

30. Interesting points

However, I must disagree with a handful of them.

With respect to the "dark ages," I would submit that the dark ages of mental health were the days of asylums and lobotomies. Those days are long gone and are no comparison to the numerous evidence based approaches of today.

As I stated above, paranoid delusions, which this man may or may not have been experiencing, are actually among the easier symptoms to treat with the use of medications. It's true, however, that medications don't "cure" mental illnesses as the symptoms typically come right back without the medications.

Additionally, talk therapy is in fact extremely effective for a number of people with a number of conditions and problems -- and the therapist, speaking for myself now, rarely feels "powerful." A good therapist feels connected in a sense that is validating and present thus becoming a resource for folks with mental illnesses who may otherwise be suffering alone or in silence. There is most definitely effective "treatments" for most mental illnesses and they are available in most communities these days. What is lacking is a public awareness and infrastructure that encourages timely treatment and timely access to said treatment. Honestly, spreading the fallacy that talk therapy and psychiatry is ineffective contributes to the problem. Also, because treatment is voluntary, there is an enormous element of personal responsibility for individuals and families in play as treatment consistency is probably the biggest factor in determining its success.

I think though, the basis of my disagreement with the points you are making is one of semantics. It sounds like we agree that there is no "cure" for most mental illnesses.

By the way, somatic healing does sound like a promising approach to PTSD.

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Response to olddad56 (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:54 AM

20. Wasn't he a Vietnam vet?

 

PTSD or just plain abandoned by his country?

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:24 PM

22. PTSD

PTSD requires exposure to a traumatic antecedent. The news reports suggest that he never saw combat action. He may have had PTSD, he is apparently a Vietnam Vet , those two things don't necessarily go together in this case. However, disregard for the rights and feelings of others is not a hallmark of PTSD. In fact, empathy and regard for the rights and feelings of others is a typical prerequisite for PTSD. The tension created between feelings of empathy and the horrific acts witnessed or committed during warfare IS the internal conflict that constitutes PTSD. An individual who lacks empathy or regard for rights and feelings of others, along with flagrant disregard for societal norms and laws, would be considered to have antisocial personality disorder -- someone with that make up would thrive in a combat environment. The actions of this man suggest that that is more likely the case. People with PTSD are much more likely to commit suicide, have an explosive temper (which could be dangerous) and be hypervigiliant with an exxagerated startle response (which would be dangerous to someone just dropping in or even tapping him on the shoulder.)

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Response to Blackjackdavey (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:10 PM

23. The news report suggests that he never saw combat action.

Last edited Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:39 AM - Edit history (1)

That may or may not be true and the 'news report' would have no way of knowing. This man was in a naval aviation squadron that was stationed in Atsugi Japan, with a permanent detachment in DaNang, Vietnam. While I have no recollection of Jimmy Lee Dykes, I served in the same squadron and our tours of duty overlapped by about 6 moths. In other words, I got to this squadron (VQ-1) about 6 months before he left.

I think I can speak to the question of whether he saw combat action or could have suffered from PTSD. Generally, ground personal rotated to DaNang for 6 weeks at a time, then back to Japan for usually for 3 to 6 months. People in flight status rotated to DaNang for 3 weeks at a time and the turn around was usually shorter. In general, while in DaNang, the people that were TAD to Danang were not subjected to much danger. We didn't carry weapons because we didn't need them. We were well within the perimeter of the base. We flew and serviced electronic reconnaissance aircraft. We had a hanger on the marine side of the base and our barracks were a couple blocks away. We were not there in a combat action capacity. The base would come under rocket attacks at random intervals. Maybe on average 5-8 times a month, in the middle of the night.

If this guy was in an enlisted crewman, flying in and out of Danang, or out of Japan, he could have endured some scary moments, but I don't think we lost any planes while he was there.

The only time or situation I can think of where he could have exposed to the trauma of combat was during the 1968 Tet Offensive. I have several friends who endured that event and do indeed suffer from PTSD.

So, if he was in DaNang during Tet of 1968, and he may well have been, he could have suffered from PTSD. He certainly would have been exposed to a traumatic event.

For you to suggest that he would have thrived in combat is sort of irrelevant if you don't know his state of mind while he was in the Navy. My guess would be that he was a normal young kid that joined the Navy and something either happened to him in Vietnam, or at some other time after he left the service. He would not have lasted in this squadron if his behavior was that of someone with an antisocial personality disorder. Maybe he became a crank addict after he left the service. Who knows

With no facts to go on, all we can do is speculate.

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Response to olddad56 (Reply #23)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:39 PM

28. That is great background information.

Thank you for sharing it. It is true, we can only speculate and prior to your input we could only speculate based on fallible and incomplete news reports. Thanks again. I'd like to point out that the reason I mentioned the different characteristics of PTSD and antisocial personality disorder was not to imply how this man may have behaved back then, or how any other service member may have behaved on the battlefield, but rather to point out that there is a difference between the characteristics of PTSD and many of the actions of this man, as they've been reported. That distinction may not necessarily be relevant to this case but it is relevant to the many vets who have PTSD, are struggling to reintegrate into society and who would never shoot a bus driver in cold blood then terrorize a random little boy. In other words, I was hoping to debunk some potentially stigmatizing notions. Frankly, the crank angle seems the most likely of all.

Thank you for your service.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:23 AM

16. A couple of details from another source:

They communicated and passed items through a pipe he'd installed for air, so that may be part of this:

...The Midland City official said law enforcement agents had been viewing Dykes with some sort of camera, which is how they saw that he had a gun... Pack declined to get into specifics, but confirmed that high-tech surveillance equipment was used during the police standoff..It also wasn't clear how authorities knew Dykes was armed, or what kind of surveillance they used to track his behavior and movement.

At the request of law enforcement authorities, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta had approved the provision of certain equipment that could be employed to assist in the hostage situation, according to a U.S. official who requested anonymity to discuss a pending law enforcement matter. It is not clear whether the equipment was actually used..


http://www.news10.com/story/20964026/small-ala-town-relieved-that-child-hostage-safe

Some people want to make this about drones. They are smaller than fighter jets and bombers to deliver missiles. There was no distance, all direct contact, breaking into the 'cavern,' or storm cellar. He shot at officers and they shot him, all of it low tech.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:25 PM

26. Ground penetrating radar / miniature video


Yah, I'm no expert, but I didn't think drones did well underground. My impression was that it was surveillance equipment of some kind.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #26)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:56 PM

29. I agree, but drones are just sexy, ya know.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:50 AM

17. I don't give a damn what they did or how they did it...

 

As long as the child is safe.

That's all that matters to normal folks.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:21 PM

25. Try not to project your own lack of concern for other matters onto others...

I'm pretty sure most "normal" folks can rather easily concern themselves with more than one matter at a time. A wee bit disingenuous for you to project your own lack of concern for other matters onto others...

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:26 PM

27. +1

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:04 AM

21. ... and he really thought he stood a chance?

Wow. Just ... wow. Musta watched too many Rambo movies in his spare time.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:16 AM

34. Sales of underground Bunkers plummets after Alabama incident.

People suddenly realize they are worthless for anything other than escaping wife's complaints and watching cable TV.

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