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Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:28 AM

Magdalene laundries report to be published

Last edited Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:36 AM - Edit history (1)

Source: BBC News

A report published later is expected to detail Irish government knowledge of what went on in Magdalene laundries.

The laundries were Catholic-run workhouses that operated in Ireland from the 1920s to the mid-1990s.

Girls considered "troubled" or what were then called "fallen women" were sent there by families or the courts.

In 2011, the UN Committee Against Torture called on the Irish government to set up an inquiry into the treatment of thousands of women and girls.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21326221



Magdalene laundries survivors threaten hunger strike.

Elderly survivors of Ireland's notorious Magdalene laundries are threatening to go on hunger strike if the Irish government fails to establish a financial redress scheme for women held in the institutions.

The Fine Gael-Labour coalition will receive a report on Tuesday that will establish the Irish state's role in a system that the UN Committee on Torture described as slavery.

Girls described as "troubled" or deemed to have been morally "fallen" – mainly unmarried young mothers – were ordered by courts to work unpaid in the laundries run by the Irish Catholic church. The workhouses operated from the early 1920s until 1996.

Steven O'Riordain, a representative of the Magdalene Survivors Together, has warned some women will go on hunger strike if the government does not meet their demands.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/05/magdalene-laundries-hunger-strike

79 replies, 9158 views

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Reply Magdalene laundries report to be published (Original post)
dipsydoodle Feb 2013 OP
Sherman A1 Feb 2013 #1
Scairp Feb 2013 #45
Kolesar Feb 2013 #2
whathehell Feb 2013 #16
Kolesar Feb 2013 #23
whathehell Feb 2013 #28
Kolesar Feb 2013 #31
whathehell Feb 2013 #35
TheMadMonk Feb 2013 #49
ReRe Feb 2013 #3
FiveGoodMen Feb 2013 #22
ReRe Feb 2013 #39
happyslug Feb 2013 #56
get the red out Feb 2013 #77
ReRe Feb 2013 #79
FunkyLeprechaun Feb 2013 #4
duhneece Feb 2013 #10
Ghost Dog Feb 2013 #25
ReRe Feb 2013 #59
diving6 Feb 2013 #62
October Feb 2013 #76
Ghost Dog Feb 2013 #68
FiveGoodMen Feb 2013 #24
FunkyLeprechaun Feb 2013 #27
happyslug Feb 2013 #33
ReRe Feb 2013 #40
Berlum Feb 2013 #5
RainDog Feb 2013 #6
formercia Feb 2013 #7
dipsydoodle Feb 2013 #8
OmahaBlueDog Feb 2013 #9
FiveGoodMen Feb 2013 #26
colorado_ufo Feb 2013 #38
ReRe Feb 2013 #41
diving6 Feb 2013 #57
ReRe Feb 2013 #61
diving6 Feb 2013 #60
ReRe Feb 2013 #63
JaneQPublic Feb 2013 #11
Blue_Tires Feb 2013 #18
RebelOne Feb 2013 #21
smokey nj Feb 2013 #52
Still Blue in PDX Feb 2013 #75
zabet Feb 2013 #71
JaneQPublic Feb 2013 #74
madrchsod Feb 2013 #12
toby jo Feb 2013 #13
get the red out Feb 2013 #29
whathehell Feb 2013 #47
Boomerproud Feb 2013 #14
ReRe Feb 2013 #42
gopiscrap Feb 2013 #15
dipsydoodle Feb 2013 #17
Sivafae Feb 2013 #50
Solly Mack Feb 2013 #19
ismnotwasm Feb 2013 #20
get the red out Feb 2013 #30
whathehell Feb 2013 #48
get the red out Feb 2013 #78
lovuian Feb 2013 #32
bemildred Feb 2013 #34
whathehell Feb 2013 #37
Ghost Dog Feb 2013 #64
whathehell Feb 2013 #65
Ghost Dog Feb 2013 #66
whathehell Feb 2013 #67
Ghost Dog Feb 2013 #69
whathehell Feb 2013 #70
happyslug Feb 2013 #36
ReRe Feb 2013 #43
happyslug Feb 2013 #44
ReRe Feb 2013 #51
axollot Feb 2013 #72
happyslug Feb 2013 #73
LineReply .
riderinthestorm Feb 2013 #46
Dawson Leery Feb 2013 #53
elleng Feb 2013 #54
dipsydoodle Feb 2013 #55
hrmjustin Feb 2013 #58

Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:36 AM

1. Long overdue

but one supposes better late than not at all.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:33 PM

45. I'd say this is just plain too late for many of them

Last edited Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:13 PM - Edit history (2)

Over a hundred years of state sponsored slavery and abuse by nuns and they just now get around to addressing it, 17 years after the last one closed. I frankly am rather surprised that they have done an investigation. I really thought it would be ignored until the end of time, at least in Ireland. How anyone could still support this criminal organization called the Holy Roman Catholic Church after so much of what they really are has been exposed either has rocks for brains or is a child molester themselves. That may sound harsh to some of you, but that's just the way it shakes out. I hope everyone saw the HBO movie last night about the systematic cover-up of the paedophile priests by everyone, all the way up to the pope. This has been going on for a thousand years, since the inception of this syndicate, and until everyone stops giving them money and going there for mass and the Vatican is no longer a city will any measure of justice ever be gotten for the countless victims throughout the centuries. They need to cease to exist.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:37 AM

2. Such cruelty on that island ... eom

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:35 AM

16. There's cruelty everywhere, not just on "that island". n/t

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Response to whathehell (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:44 PM

23. where they rape children then beat them for being sinners

We don't have that in the Chagrin Valley.

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:39 PM

28. Children are raped and beaten all over the world

whether it's for being "sinners" or for something else,

and btw, I doubt you know what's going on in every house in your neighborhood.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #28)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 02:01 PM

31. You sound bored...eom

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 02:30 PM

35. You sound unresponsive.

but I understand.

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:53 PM

49. BULLSHIT! Child abuse is so pervasive, it's going on...

 

...within a stone's throw of ANYONE living in an urban environment.

If your precious Chagrin Valley happens to be rural, absolute numbers per square mile will be down, but will almost certainly be up per head of population.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:02 AM

3. Any/All survivors should be compensated

What is it about institutions that do wrong and know it? They could have come clean on this atrocity years ago and made good by the "prisoners." But they just closed it down and since they are an institution, thought no one would be able to get to the dirt, as they are a private institution (similar to our Corporations.) So, here's one more black eye for the Catholic Church.

There can't be that many survivors. The Catholic Church needs to fork over the names & vital info of every woman who they enslaved for all those years (1920s-1990s). Damn...70 years of evil. Hunt down every woman, to her grave stone or to her doorstep. A proper memorial stone placed on the graves of the deceased commemorating what happened to them in their life. And the living should all be compensated to the end of their days, and then a memorial stone placed on their graves.

An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere. Shame on the Catholic for their centuries of sin.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:44 PM

22. "What is it about institutions that do wrong and know it? They could have come clean"

I think the problem is that if you're willing to knowingly do wrong in the first place, then you don't have the type of conscience that wants to come clean.

And the Catholic church, well ...

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #22)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:00 PM

39. Yeah...

...we could come up with a bunch of others (MIC) if we put our minds to it.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:21 PM

56. For what, read the report

The entire Report:
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/MagdalenRpt2013


An early example of a woman released from prison to a Magdalen Laundry in this way occurred in relation to a woman convicted of the “murder of her malei nfant” in 1927. The file includes information on the case as well as some materials on general policy in relation to such cases. 219. The woman in question was sentenced to death, with an execution date scheduled for January 1928. A note to the Minister recommending that her sentence of death be commuted recorded the reasons for this, including:

“(4) the fact that the condemned person is a woman is a relevant consideration. Women are executed in very exceptional circumstances only.
(5) The condemned woman’s mentality is below average. Generally it would be contrary to precedent to carry out the death sentence”.

The Governor General of the Free State subsequently commuted her sentence “to one of penal servitude for life”


http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2013Magdalen-P%20III%20Chapter%209%20Justice%20(PDF%20-%20631KB).pdf/Files/2013Magdalen-P%20III%20Chapter%209%20Justice%20(PDF%20-%20631KB).pdf

“her people never visited her when she was in Limerick. They never recognised her. Her family had to suffer the stigma of their daughter being a murderer and I am sure it hurt them very much. They never visited . I remember she told me the day she arrived in Limerick that she was only told the day she was let out of prison that both her parents were dead. She was never told a word about them while she was in prison and she never saw anyone belonging to her since the day she was arrested”.


http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2013Magdalen-P%20III%20Chapter%209%20Justice%20(PDF%20-%20631KB).pdf/Files/2013Magdalen-P%20III%20Chapter%209%20Justice%20(PDF%20-%20631KB).pdf


A woman (age not recorded) entered a Magdalen Laundry in the 1960s from St Brendan’s psychiatric hospital. She was “taken home, not suitable for here”.
- A woman (age not recorded) entered a Magdalen Laundry in the 1960s from St Brendan’s psychiatric hospital. She “went to her sister in London” thereafter.
- A 14-year old girl was placed in a Magdalen Laundry by a named psychiatrist in the 1970s. The Register records that she came from a situation of family breakdown and that one of her parents was living abroad (in a specified country). The date of her departure is not recorded, but her destination is – a named industrial school.


http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2013Magdalen-P%20III%20Chapter%2011%20Health%20(PDF%20-%20439KB).pdf/Files/2013Magdalen-P%20III%20Chapter%2011%20Health%20(PDF%20-%20439KB).pdf

A woman (age not recorded) entered a Magdalen Laundry from in the 1950s. She remained in the laundry until her death, with the Register noting that she was “never any trouble”. -

A woman (age not recorded) entered a Magdalen Laundry in the 1950s from . She “left at her own request, not to be taken back”. - A woman entered a Magdalen Laundry in the 1970s from St Brendan’s psychiatric hospital. She remained there until her death.

- A woman entered a Magdalen Laundry in the 1970s from Vergemount. She subsequently “walked out”. - Another woman, age not recorded, entered a Magdalen Laundry in the 1980s from St Loman’s psychiatric hospital. After less than a month, she returned to St Loman’s. She appears to have re-entered the Magdalen Laundry within a short space of time, but later that year she again left the Laundry – the register records this as “Left – not to come back”.


http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2013Magdalen-P%20III%20Chapter%2011%20Health%20(PDF%20-%20439KB).pdf/Files/2013Magdalen-P%20III%20Chapter%2011%20Health%20(PDF%20-%20439KB).pdf

The entire report:
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/MagdalenRpt2013

Please note, the maximum number of women working in these institution was never more then 1200.
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/P%20II%20Chapter%208%20Stats.pdf/Files/P%20II%20Chapter%208%20Stats.pdf
Decade....# of referrals..%
1920s..... 1,846.... 16.5%
1930s..... 2,695.... 24.1%
1940s..... 2,498.... 22.3%
1950s..... 1,725.... 15.4%
1960s..... 1,593.... 14.2%
1970s...... 660 ......5.9%
1980s...... 147 ......1.3%
1990s....... 8 ..........0.1%
Unknown. 26...... 0.2%
Total.....11,198... 100.0%

Note, the number of referrals in the 1920s through the 1960s exceeded the 1200 cap, thus many women were in the laundries less then a year, many just months or days.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/P%20II%20Chapter%208%20Stats.pdf/Files/P%20II%20Chapter%208%20Stats.pdf

It is unknown how 28.3% of all referrals were referred, but 16.4% were self referred, 14.7% were a transfer from another laundry.
Self..........................................................1,319......16.4%
Transfer from another Magdalen Laundry......1,186......14.8%
Other congregations.....................................898........11.2%
Family..........................................................845........10.5%
Priest...........................................................705..........8.8%
Criminal Justice System..................................646..........8.1%
Industrial and Reformatory Schools.................622..........7.8%
Legion of Mary..............................................394..........4.9%
County Homes & City Homes.........................349...........4.4%
Mother and Baby Homes & Adoption Societies.313.......3.9%
Hospitals, Doctors, Nurses............................193.......2.4%
Other .........................................................185.......2.3%
NSPCC.........................................................176.......2.2%
Psychiatric hospitals & institutions for the intellectually
disabled........................................................107......1.3%
Health and social service authorities...................87.......1.1

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Response to ReRe (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:35 AM

77. No gravestones

I read recently that the Nuns have only in very recent times been forced to at least give the names of the women buried in the unmarked graves behind one of the laundries. It seems that they sold the property and the new owners were accidentally digging up bodies. They had to then be urged to give a list of the women who had died in that hell hole, these women had no gravestones.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3445_162-567365.htm

..... Norris petitioned the sisters of the Good Shepherd in Cork to at least list the names of the Magdalenes who had been buried in unmarked graves behind the laundry. The nuns complied.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #77)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:20 PM

79. Magdalene gravestones

Thank you for bringing this article to my attention. I am totally overwhelmed with revulsion over the whole subject of cruelty to women down through time. The Church has been too pure to sin. It makes me sick...

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:28 AM

4. It wasn't just the Republic

It happened in Northern Ireland as well, even up to the 1990s. My mother went to Catholic boarding school and the nuns constantly threatened to send her to the laundries, even when she misbehaved (one nun thought she was far too pretty and said she should be sent to the laundries because she might be too comely for men).

Sinead O'Connor is a survivor of the Magdalene Laundries. When I found out, it really put to perspective as to why she ripped up a photo of the Pope.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 08:59 AM

10. Thanks for sharing about Sinead O'C

It DOES put the ripping of Pope's pic in a whole new perspective for me.

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Response to duhneece (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:46 PM

25. Sinead has said: (Washington Post, March 2010)

The pope's apology for sex abuse in Ireland seems hollow
By Sinead O'Connor
Sunday, March 28, 2010

...When I was a young girl, my mother -- an abusive, less-than-perfect parent -- encouraged me to shoplift. After being caught once too often, I spent 18 months in An Grianán Training Centre, an institution in Dublin for girls with behavioral problems, at the recommendation of a social worker. An Grianán was one of the now-infamous church-sponsored "Magdalene laundries," which housed pregnant teenagers and uncooperative young women. We worked in the basement, washing priests' clothes in sinks with cold water and bars of soap. We studied math and typing. We had limited contact with our families. We earned no wages. One of the nuns, at least, was kind to me and gave me my first guitar.

An Grianán was a product of the Irish government's relationship with the Vatican -- the church had a "special position" codified in our constitution until 1972. As recently as 2007, 98 percent of Irish schools were run by the Catholic Church. But schools for troubled youth have been rife with barbaric corporal punishments, psychological abuse and sexual abuse. In October 2005, a report sponsored by the Irish government identified more than 100 allegations of sexual abuse by priests in Ferns, a small town 70 miles south of Dublin, between 1962 and 2002. Accused priests weren't investigated by police; they were deemed to be suffering a "moral" problem. In 2009, a similar report implicated Dublin archbishops in hiding sexual abuse scandals between 1975 and 2004.

Why was such criminal behavior tolerated? The "very prominent role which the Church has played in Irish life is the very reason why abuses by a minority of its members were allowed to go unchecked," the 2009 report said.

Despite the church's long entanglement with the Irish government, Pope Benedict's so-called apology takes no responsibility for the transgressions of Irish priests. His letter states that "the Church in Ireland must first acknowledge before the Lord and before others the serious sins committed against defenceless children." What about the Vatican's complicity in those sins?

Benedict's apology gives the impression that he heard about abuse only recently, and it presents him as a fellow victim: "I can only share in the dismay and the sense of betrayal that so many of you have experienced on learning of these sinful and criminal acts and the way Church authorities in Ireland dealt with them." But Benedict's infamous 2001 letter to bishops around the world ordered them to keep sexual abuse allegations secret under threat of excommunication -- updating a noxious church policy, expressed in a 1962 document, that both priests accused of sex crimes and their victims "observe the strictest secret" and be "restrained by a perpetual silence." ...

/... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/25/AR2010032502363.html


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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #25)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:38 PM

59. Thanks...

...Ghost Dog for linking this article and the clip. Am I the only one that expects the Catholic Church to split in two one of these days? I've been thinking that for about 15-20 yrs now. Things get worse and worse as the years tick away.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #59)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 11:42 PM

62. Making Church leaders honest

There have been dissident churches throughout the centuries, the most important being the Protestant churches. The Catholic Church will just go on.
It's the democratically elected legislators of the various countries who have to act.
Most priests and other church people who have committed abuse are not prosecuted under the law because statutes of limitations apply.
It has taken so long before individual crimes were exposed because of cover-up practices of the Church's leaders.
It comes down to the active investigation of possible crimes and cover-ups. Cover-ups should be made punishable under the criminal law of the various countries.
One should realize of course that cover-ups are hard to prove. In that respect cover-ups are similar to making use of insider knowledge in financial trading.

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Response to diving6 (Reply #62)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:24 AM

76. Welcome to DU

Thoughtful post.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #59)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:39 PM

68. Ojalá. God willing.

Insha'Allah

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:45 PM

24. "should be sent to the laundries because she might be too comely for men"

Sounds like the exact same mindset that produced the extreme Islamic dress codes for women.

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #24)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:33 PM

27. I've heard of stories where women

flirted with men and they were sent to the laundries as a result.

my mom and her two sisters were often told that if they didn't behave they'd be sent to the laundries. She hated boarding school very much.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 02:17 PM

33. And O'Connor went they for shop lifting

However, at the age of 15, her shoplifting and truancy led to her being placed in a Magdalene Asylum, the Grianán Training Centre run by the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Asylum

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:09 PM

40. I just love DU...

... I did not know that about Sinead O'Conner! When I was a little girl, my Grandma would ask me every day when I got home from school: "Well, tell me what you learned at school today." She always said that we should learn something every day. After I grew up and moved away and would return to see her, she would say.." Well, what have you learned while you were away?" Thank you FunkyLeprechaun!

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:38 AM

5. "Not our, um, fault. Satan made us do it." - Pope Ratzinger (R)

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:36 AM

6. church had institutionalized slavery for females

WHY, women of this world - WHY do you associate with this heinous group?!?!?!?!?

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 08:00 AM

7. But, but, all the names sound so nice.....

"Three orders of Catholic nuns – the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity, the Congregation of the Sisters of Mercy, the Religious Sisters of Charity and the Sisters of the Good Shepherd – ran the Magdalene laundries."

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Response to formercia (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 08:09 AM

8. aka skimmed milk

masquerading as cream : Gilbert & Sullivan.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 08:17 AM

9. I'd never leard of the Magdalene Laundries until Joni Mitchell sang about them

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:46 PM

26. Same here.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 02:53 PM

38. What an artist. Gorgeous video, sad and beautiful.

Thank you, Joni, for being the voice of these women. Your heart and love come through.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:21 PM

41. Joni Mitchell was...

... a musical genius. Sometimes I go to YouTube just to listen to Joni all afternoon.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #41)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:29 PM

57. Joni Mitchell and the American right

Joni typically gets a lot of flak from the American right. If you want a sample of Joni bashing, google 'freerepublic' and then search for 'Joni Mitchell'.
Good for her that she doesn't read those things, probably.

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Response to diving6 (Reply #57)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:44 PM

61. Nawwww, never mind...

...tain't going to go check out anything on freerepublic. Bet she doesn't either.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #41)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:41 PM

60. Critical reception of Joni Mitchell

Also, the music critics have not been altogether appreciative.
See for example the slightly sexist Mr Robert Christgau, 'dean of the American rock critics'.
Not a dumb man at all, but clueless as to Joni's music.
One could write a book on the critical reception of Joni Mitchell's music through the years.

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Response to diving6 (Reply #60)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:12 AM

63. Well, why don't you go write a critical book about her?

Because I have never heard of ANYONE who doesn't like Joni Mitchell. And since you and I don't appear to have much in common, I think it would be a good idea to stop while we're ahead. You have a nice life...

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:13 AM

11. Excelent movie about the Magdalene Laundries...

"The Magdalene Sisters"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318411/?ref_=sr_1

It's available through Netflix.

On edit: I remember in this movie, which I believe was based on true accounts, one of the women was placed into the laundries, not because she was promiscuous, not because she had a baby out of wedlock, but because she was so pretty she was causing men to have impure thougts.

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Response to JaneQPublic (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 11:46 AM

18. I saw it...It's not for the faint of heart....

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:24 PM

21. You are so right. That movie made me furious. n/t

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Response to JaneQPublic (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:05 PM

52. I think it was based on stories told in a documentary about the laundries called

"Sex in a Cold Climate." Former inmates talk about what they went through during their imprisonment. It's quite powerful. I watched it online. I think it's on Youtube.

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Response to smokey nj (Reply #52)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:12 AM

75. Yes, the DVD has both the movie and the documentary.

Last week while donating platelets (my movie-viewing time) I watched the movie, but I had to turn off the documentary. It broke my heart.

I wonder what God/dess thinks of all the evil that has been done "in His name."

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Response to JaneQPublic (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:07 AM

71. This movie.....

was what made me aware of the atrocities that occured at the Magdalene Laundry. After watching it, I had to do further research and was appalled.


V-day heart to you for mentioning the movie.

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Response to zabet (Reply #71)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:54 PM

74. A belated Thank You...

...for the heart! (I just now found your post.)

And as a side-benefit, an extra "kick" for the thread.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:18 AM

12. what ? the catholic church sanctioning slavery?

my, my, how christian of them.....

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:47 AM

13. Dontchya love how all these 'impure' woman seem to have no 'impure' men around?

 

Let the laddies go....

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Response to toby jo (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:43 PM

29. Boys will be boys

And the Priests always just LOVE the boys..............................

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:58 AM

14. An indelible stain on the Catholic Church and the Irish government.

I hope this gets the attention it deserves and the wronged women get get some peace and redress.

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Response to Boomerproud (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:30 PM

42. In a way...

... it reminds me of the witch hunts. Any woman who did not conform to religious dogma was donned a witch and ostracized or hung. Hell, right now all over the world, girls and women are being used and abused and religion has nothing to do with it.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:14 AM

15. I saw the movie on this

it was well done and well worth watching!

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 11:33 AM

17. now updated : Irish PM: Magdalene laundries product of harsh Ireland

Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny has apologised for the stigma and conditions suffered by women who were inmates of the Magdalene laundries.

About 10,000 women passed through the laundries in the Irish Republic between 1922 and 1996, a report has revealed.

>
Mr Kenny expressed his sympathies with survivors and the families of those who died.

He added that the report found no evidence of sexual abuse in the laundries and that 10% of inmates were sent by their families and 19% entered of their own volition.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21326221

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:57 PM

50. Let me fix that for ya...

He added that the report found no evidence of sexual abuse in the laundries and that 10% of inmates were sent by their families and 19% entered "of their own volition."

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:20 PM

19. K&R

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 12:21 PM

20. I saw that

I was going to post it in HoF, but I'm glad you put it out here-- it need wider circulation, so few know about this

Thank you

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 01:49 PM

30. Religion/women

Women must always be despised. I guess that's the rule in the "big three" religions.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #30)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:31 PM

48. It's hardly just "the big three"

or should I pass on Islam for fear of being called "culturally intolerant".

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Response to whathehell (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:45 AM

78. I include them in "the big three"

The three best known patriarchal religions of the world. I was being quite inclusive

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 02:07 PM

32. The Irish Catholic church has much to answer for

terrible crime

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 02:23 PM

34. There is plenty of this "dirty laundry" yet to be washed in Ireland. nt

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Response to bemildred (Reply #34)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 02:37 PM

37. And in MANY other places as well n/t

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Response to whathehell (Reply #37)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:43 AM

64. Established Catholic Church has completely blown it in Spain,

according to everyone here I ask, for the above cited reasons and also for the financial and political incontinency as rendered self evident (through modern freedoms of expression/information/investigation/communication - ie seeking transparency) in recent years... Quite apart from having mainly (altrhough not completely) supported the dictatorship and subsequent cover-ups...

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #64)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:52 PM

65. Okay,

but that doesn't leave all other religions, nations, and organizations "pure",

except, it seems, on DU.

I was amazed, for instance, to do a site search of DU and find no posts, no threads, NOTHING

on the child sex abuse scandal at New York's elite private high school, Horace Mann,

although that school has been discussed here at different times in different contexts: It was a huge

and recent scandal and reporting on it went on for weeks in the NY Times.

You might want to check post #47 for details on that and other recent child abuse scandals

like the the Boy Scouts, the Yeshiva school teacher in Brooklyn, and of course, Penn State.

With the exception of Penn State, none of those, it seems, merited much, if any attention on DU.

I don't know, maybe they just weren't "Catholic" enough.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #65)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:47 PM

66. We are all guilty.

The essence of catholicism.

But, if you pay, we'll forgive you.

"A huge pile of shit," a recent Spanish girlfriend said to me, referring to the Catholic Church. "Except, The Virgin of El Rocío." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_of_El_Roc%C3%ADo There, utter devotion.

I refer to the mother of a young child conceived (she got knocked up, delightedly), as she described, on the pilgrimage towards El Rocio (sacred, you see).

The child has Down's syndrome and the father, absolutely loved, will remain in prison at least another 5 years...

Enormously respectable, the girlfriend. Like so many women in Spain. And in Ireland.



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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #66)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:48 PM

67. The essence of Ignorance.

But thanks for confirming my suspicion that the abuse of children concerns you

only insofar as it stokes your hatred of the Catholic church.

BTW, I don't know who told you that the church allows one to "buy" forgiveness,

but after doing twelve years of Catholic school,

I can categorically state it to be Bullshit.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #67)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:48 PM

69. Bullshit. True, amigo.

You perhaps choose to defend your right, on the other hand, to carry a fully-loaded automatic assault weapon wherever you choose to go... to feel yourself safe...

rather than feeling, for real, misericordia.

edit: ¿Did you listen to the music?

edit again; I am 58 years old, and childless by choice. I take very seriously the problem you refer to. Rife, it appears, in your (protestant) culture, same as everywhere else...

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #69)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:58 AM

70. Yes it is bullshit, amigo, but I'm afraid it's all yours

and by the way, you don't seem able to construct a proper sentence -- been

away too long, perhaps?

Beyond that, you make laughable assumptions about me based on some

stereotype, it seems. The fact is I do NOT carry any kind of gun and

fully favor a BAN on assault weapons, and every other part of the president's proposal.

"I take very seriously the problem you refer to. Rife, it appears, in your (protestant) culture,

same as everywhere else".....Say WHAT?...That is barely comprehensible, my friend, although

I did get the jab at my supposed "protestant culture". Um, excuse me, but were we not we speaking of Catholics?

Try to sort it out, mate, and get back to me when you can construct a sentence that is

comprehensible in the English language!

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 02:35 PM

36. Who should pay, the Church or the Tax payer, for these were STATE organizations

We have to remember that, while these were run by the Catholic Church, they were always viewed as being STATE organizations. Thus who was responsible to who was sent they (almost always the State), how long people stayed (almost always the State), and what the women were suppose to do in those institution (Also determined by the state). The Church role was the day to day operation (In the Case of Sinéad O'Connor they threaten her with being sent to the next door nursing home:

Unruly students there were sometimes sent to sleep in the adjoining nursing home, an experience of which she later commented, "I have never – and probably will never – experience such panic and terror and agony over anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin%C3%A9ad_O'Connor

When Physical Punishment was the norm (even in the US, which was the case till the 1970s through schools started to drop physical punishment in the 1960s) it seems to have been the norm in Ireland. Thus who should pay for any injury to these women? The State that set them up and determined how they were to be run, or the Church that actually ran them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Asylum

Please note, these institution were to be financially independent, i.e. what the girls did had to pay for they upkeep.

Since 2001, the Irish government has acknowledged that women in the Magdalene laundries were abuse victims. However, the Irish government has resisted calls for investigation and proposals for compensation; the government maintains that the laundries were privately run, therefore abuses at the laundries are outside of the government's remit. In contrast to these claims, evidence exists that Irish courts routinely sent women convicted of petty crimes to the laundries, the government awarded lucrative contracts to the laundries without any insistence on protection and fair treatment of its workers, and Irish state employees helped to keep laundry facilities stocked with workers by bringing women to the laundries and returning escaped workers


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Asylum

Just pointing out, this is larger then the Catholic Church and why Irish Government would like this whole problem to go away.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #36)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:35 PM

43. The Church

..they're the ones with all the money, and after all, they were Catholic Institutions. Unless, of course, they were subsidized by the governments of the British Isles.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #43)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:30 PM

44. These were all STATE INSTITUTIONS

It was the STATE of Ireland that set them up (many were set up by the Government of the United Kingdom when Ireland was part of the United Kingdom, but were set up as IRISH institutions).

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Response to happyslug (Reply #44)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:01 PM

51. Well, there then...

...split the difference and hit em' hard! Thanks for correcting me/answering my question!

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Response to happyslug (Reply #44)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:24 PM

72. Thank You. Christian Theocracy looks like this - we must not forget. n/t

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Response to axollot (Reply #72)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:41 PM

73. 1200 max at any one time, and most could leave at any time

Last edited Sun Feb 10, 2013, 10:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Clickgdalene'stes read the actual report. It has many different stories of various women. Some were in for decades, others just for a few days. Except those sent to the laundries as part of their Criminal Sentence, they could leave at any time. Once in, rules were strict, but many women came and went.

The actual report:
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/MagdalenRpt2013

The focus and purpose of these early institutions was closely tied to women in prostitution or women regarded as in danger of falling into prostitution, including unmarried mothers. This purpose, however, appears to have changed over time and based on the records it identified, the Committee found that the Magdalen Laundries in Ireland, after 1922, was not associated in the same strong way with prostitution or unmarried mothers.
Analysis by historians of the records of Magdalen Laundries until 1900 has also suggested that, until that point, it was common for women to enter or exit those institutions at their own request. Part II of this Report addresses the entries and exits of women to the Magdalen Laundries after 1922.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2013Magdalen-P%20I%20Chapter%203%20History%20(PDF%20-%203824KB).pdf/Files/2013Magdalen-P%20I%20Chapter%203%20History%20(PDF%20-%203824KB).pdf

93. During the early period “lay women played an important role in running these establishments”, including the administration and operation of the institution, the “instruction of the inmates in religion, reading and needlework” and fund-raising. Over time, many of these early institutions closed or were taken over by religious congregations. Luddy explains that:
"Nuns generally took over institutions which were already in existence but which through both managerial and financial considerations had run into difficulties. It was a very practical move to bring the nuns in because they had the personnel, commitment, organization and financial support which many of the Catholic lay asylums lacked”.

94. These institutions, then operated as religious-run institutions located near
or attached to convents, were generally larger than surviving lay institutions
and were typically located in the hinterland of urban areas.


96. Luddy, on the basis of analysis of 7 institutions up to the year 1900, concludes that the “majority of women who entered these refuges did so voluntarily … just over 66 per cent” and that “entering a refuge was, for the majority of women, a matter of choice” which was favored over the workhouse by “many”.

97. The second largest source of referral identified by Luddy for the period is that of religious referrals (priests and nuns), followed by family referrals or other non-religious sources such as employers.

98. She identified a similar pattern in the exit routes from the institutions during the 19th century: “The majority of women who left the asylums did so of their own wish … approximately 52% of the women did this”. She notes, however, that: “some form of permission to leave had to be granted by the nuns and a small number of women, about 1 per cent, ran away or escaped from the homes”. Nonetheless, she states that “right up to the end of 1899, the majority were also able to leave if they wished to do so”.
99. In light of these statistics and the repeat entries by a significant number of
women, Luddy concludes that during the 19th century: “It seems likely that many of the women used these homes as a temporary refuge and had no intention of reforming… . The decision to stay was made by the women themselves and although the nuns certainly did not encourage women to leave, they had little choice in
the matter if the woman was determined to go”.
74
100. Analysis by Finnegan of the entries and exits of women to the Magdalen Laundries operated by the Good Shepherd Sisters in Limerick, New Ross, Cork and Waterford up until the year 1900 also confirm a high proportion of both voluntary entries and exits. Finnegan’s analysis on this issue can be summarized in the form of the following table..

104. To date, it has been commonly assumed that these patterns of entry and exit changed somewhere between the turn of the century and the foundation of the State; and that from that time onwards, voluntary entry to or exit from the Magdalen Laundries greatly diminished or ceased altogether. The statistics set out at Part II of this Report suggest that this is not the case.
:
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2013Magdalen-P%20I%20Chapter%203%20History%20(PDF%20-%203824KB).pdf/Files/2013Magdalen-P%20I%20Chapter%203%20History%20(PDF%20-%203824KB).pdf


Only one woman said she was sexually abused, and that by woman, not a nun, who had decided to stay at the laundry for life

31. One woman told the Committee that she was subjected to sexual abuse by an auxiliary during her time in a Magdalen Laundry. She was not aware of this happening to anyone else. Auxiliaries, referred to variously as “consecrates”
or “magdalenes”, were women who, having entered a Magdalen Laundry,
decided to remain there for life.
32. No other women in contact with the Committee made any allegation of sexual abuse during their time in the Magdalen Laundries. However a significant number told the Committee that they had suffered sexual abuse in the family home or in other institutions, either before or after their time in the Magdalen Laundries.


Most did NOT suffer any PHYSICAL ABUSE:
33. A large majority of the women who shared their stories with the Committee said that they had neither experienced nor seen other girls or women suffer physical abuse in the Magdalen Laundries.
34. In this regard, women who had in their earlier lives been in an industrial or reformatory school drew a clear distinction between their experiences there and in the Magdalen Laundries, stating clearly that the widespread brutality which they had witnessed and been subjected to in industrial and reformatory schools was not a feature of the Magdalen Laundries.


http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2013Magdalen-P%20IV%20Chapter%2019%20Conditions%20(PDF%20-%20353KB).pdf/Files/2013Magdalen-P%20IV%20Chapter%2019%20Conditions%20(PDF%20-%20353KB).pdf

Now, the women did report MEcrudityudety, nasty comments by the nuns and others, but the reports of any acphysicaliscal punishment were rare (and mostly tied in with where the women had been BEFORELaundryndray, not at the Laundry

Hair was cut, but never for punishment at the Laundries (but was done elsewhere for punishment):
Another woman who was in a different Magdalen Laundry also reported that her hair was cut on her first day there “Click click the scissors. The first day bafterwordsfterwards. My hair was cut as punishment in the School but not here”


http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2013Magdalen-P%20IV%20Chapter%2019%20Conditions%20(PDF%20-%20353KB).pdf/Files/2013Magdalen-P%20IV%20Chapter%2019%20Conditions%20(PDF%20-%20353KB).pdf

As you read the report, you get a feeling it is more about what was acceptable or non-acceptable punishment in the 1950s (and again today) as opposactualnReligious Religoud Dogma.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:01 PM

46. .



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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:04 PM

53. This is but one instance of a long history of religion being used to enslave humans.

It is also another black mark (one of many) on the papacy.
Elizabeth I knew the enemy well.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:17 PM

54. Brief story on BBC World News tonight.

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Response to elleng (Reply #54)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:37 PM

55. CNN have it now on their world edition.

Report: Irish state sent thousands of women to infamous workhouses.

(CNN) -- More than 130 unmarked graves at a former convent discovered in Dublin in 1993 first brought to public consciousness the plight of thousands of women forced to work at Catholic-run workhouses in Ireland -- an ugly legacy that's the focus of a new report from the Irish government.

The report, released Tuesday, acknowledges that Ireland's government sent thousands of women and girls to "harsh and physically demanding" workhouses known as Magdalen Laundries, where they worked and lived without pay, sometimes for years. The laundries operated from 1922 to 1996.

"The psychological impact on these girls was undoubtedly traumatic and lasting," the Irish government-backed investigatory committee found.

The report also said, "Many of the women who met with the committee -- and particularly those who entered the Magdalen Laundries as young girls -- experienced the Laundries as lonely and frightening places."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/05/world/europe/ireland-magdalen-laundries/

BBC's home coverage here in the UK is much greater as Sky News etc..

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:37 PM

58. I hope these women get justice.

I hope these women take the government and the church to the cleaners(no pun intended).

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