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Tue Feb 5, 2013, 02:30 AM

Alabama Hostage Taker Jimmy Lee Dykes Died at Cops' Hands

Source: CBS News

Alabama hostage taker Jimmy Lee Dykes died at cops' hands

February 04, 2013

MIDLAND CITY, Ala. Authorities stormed an underground bunker in southeastern Alabama Monday, freeing a 5-year-old boy and shooting his captor to death after a week of fruitless negotiations that left authorities convinced the child was in imminent danger.

- snip -

CBS News correspondent John Miller told anchor Scott Pelley on the "CBS Evening News" Monday that law enforcement officers had killed Dykes.

Miller said authorities had been delivering items to Dykes during the standoff through Dykes' entrance to the bunker.

Miller said sources tell him authorities "created an opportunity (Monday), because he was getting more irrational -- he was handling the weapon, they say. (So) they created an opportunity to bring (Dykes) to that door to accept (a) delivery. Then they

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57567597/alabama-hostage-taker-jimmy-lee-dykes-died-at-cops-hands

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Reply Alabama Hostage Taker Jimmy Lee Dykes Died at Cops' Hands (Original post)
Hissyspit Feb 2013 OP
JohnnyRingo Feb 2013 #1
eShirl Feb 2013 #5
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #12
JohnnyRingo Feb 2013 #19
Walk away Feb 2013 #17
JohnnyRingo Feb 2013 #21
happyslug Feb 2013 #26
Walk away Feb 2013 #37
happyslug Feb 2013 #40
Ian Iam Feb 2013 #2
JohnnyRingo Feb 2013 #22
dballance Feb 2013 #29
davidpdx Feb 2013 #3
graham4anything Feb 2013 #4
Tunkamerica Feb 2013 #6
graham4anything Feb 2013 #9
amuse bouche Feb 2013 #11
musical_soul Feb 2013 #16
Tunkamerica Feb 2013 #42
raccoon Feb 2013 #10
Jeff In Milwaukee Feb 2013 #15
eggplant Feb 2013 #13
JohnnyRingo Feb 2013 #23
tblue37 Feb 2013 #24
Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2013 #30
Bucky Feb 2013 #34
Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2013 #36
JohnnyRingo Feb 2013 #39
ColesCountyDem Feb 2013 #7
lunatica Feb 2013 #8
2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #14
Walk away Feb 2013 #18
tblue37 Feb 2013 #25
AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #20
bluestateguy Feb 2013 #27
Trajan Feb 2013 #28
Botany Feb 2013 #31
DonViejo Feb 2013 #32
bluestateguy Feb 2013 #41
Bucky Feb 2013 #35
Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2013 #33
The Stranger Feb 2013 #38

Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:10 AM

1. The person who shot him is a hero.

I'm not glorifying death, but this could have easily gone bad. If the agent hadn't killed him with one shot, I imagine he would have been the first casualty in a botched rescue.

That man (and the others) put his life on the line for that boy. Sad the kid had to witness any of this.

On edit:
My hand would have been trembling too much to hit anything.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:07 AM

5. I heard earlier reports the rescuers used a blinding flash just as they went in.

Perhaps the boy wasn't able to see what happened very quickly after the flash.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 08:58 AM

12. He is no more of a hero than the others that went in.

They are all heroes.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:49 AM

19. I feel he was more so...

because he obviously volunteered to be the one who could have failed and caused the others to be hurt/killed.

If it had gone bad, he would have to live with that guilt all his life.... if he survived. Of course they all would share that responsibility (and now fame), but he was the one taking that crucial first shot.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:44 AM

17. Which is why the police need to have better guns than your average gun nut. nt

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Response to Walk away (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:59 AM

21. I understand and mostly agree with your point...

but I don't know it applies in this specific case.

There were no reports that the kidnapper had any specialized weapons, he shot the bus driver with a common pistol. In such close quarters as the bunker, I imagine the agent used a regular semi-auto handgun as well. Certainly the bulk and length of a rifle would be a disadvantage.

It's just incredible he kept his cool while killing someone with what I understand was one shot. Few people can do that, so in this case training trumps assault weapons. I had a hard time killing the raccoon that mauled my cat.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:07 PM

26. What are you talking about, the key is TRAINING not weapons

This sounds like a one shot shotting, the Police Officer who did the shooting could have done it with a Flint lock pistol while Dykes had the latest version of the M-16. The key was TRAINING. The officer was trained to use that weapon, if my suspicion are correct he had been training to do this same maneuver for at least the last two days (He did it over and over again with the rest of his team).

More often then not it is NOT weapons that makes the difference but training.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #26)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:52 PM

37. Ok then. Let's just train the police and let the gun nuts have bigger and...

better weapons. To me it sounds like a stupid idea but you are the gun expert!

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Response to Walk away (Reply #37)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:49 PM

40. That is the test...

Last edited Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:35 PM - Edit history (1)

During the American Revolution the Americans often had better or as good weapons as the British, but it was the British Regular Discipline that won most of the battles (The British lost the Revolution for they had little support among the people of New England or the Middle Colonies, and while they had superior weapons technology, they did not have the support of the masses and thus loss the war, just like the US did in Vietnam and is doing in Afghanistan),

Side Note: Iraq is unique, the War to defeat Saddam was a complete success, but the subsequent war over who was to rule Iraq, the US lost to Iran, due to the Shiites of Iraq preferring Iran over the US. Superior technology could NOT overcome the fact who the Iraqi people wanted to rule them.

In any fight, the winner is almost always to the side with the better training. This can be seen in the German Invasion of France in 1940 and the German Invasion of Russia in 1941. Both times the side OPPOSING the Germans had better weapons. The Russian T-34 was so superior to anything the Germans had, the Germans copied it and then realized they did not have the welding ability to make it, thus re-designed it to be become the Panther of the later War Years. By 1942 the Russian Army had been reformed enough that it could prevent a taking of Moscow, but it took to 1943 for the Russian army to be good enough to go on the Offensive (and this was helped by the lack of Fuel the German Army had after 1941, its fuel supply before 1941 had been Russia, when Hitler attacked Russia he attacked his own fuel supply, when German Forces failed to take Moscow, the war was over, Germany had lost and even the German High Command knew this and thus did no long term plans after 1941, the only question such a plan would have answered is who took Berlin. the British, the Americans or the Russian. .

A similar situation occurred on the Western Front in 1944, the Germans this time had the superior weapon technology, but due to being tied up in Russia, the Germans ran out of men, fuel and supplies and lost the war.

A similar situation occurred in Korea in 1950, the North Koreans had Superior tanks, the T-34-85 (This was the same T-34 the Germans had run unto in 1941, but upguned with new three man turret with an 85mm gun instead of the original two man turret with a 76mm gun, T-34-85s are still in use throughout the world, last seen in Combat during the Kosovo Conflict of the 1990s).

These T-34-85s were capable of defeating anything in South Korea, until the US shipped in some M4 Shermans and M26 Pershings. After the US sent in the M4 Shermans and M26 Pershings and thier well trained crews, the tide turned and the US went on the offensive. Toward the end of the Korean War the M46 Pershing and the M47 Patton tanks were sent to Korea (and Britain sent its Centenion tanks). These later tanks were clearly Superior to the T-34-85s of the North Koreans and Chinese but the topic is better training over better weapons and the later years of the Korean War is more two sides getting around to signing some sort of truce more then anything else.

On the other hand, in the early part of the War, the T-34-85 was superior to the M-4 Shermans and the M26 Pershings. The T-34-85, 85mm gun was superior to the 76 mm gun of the Sherman and it had better cross country ability then the 90mm armed M26 Pershings (and in Korea this superiority was important, so much that Tank Crews preferred the Sherman to the Pershings due to the Sherman's better ability to go cross country. The reason for this was simple, the M26 Pershing was 10 tons heavier then the M4 Sherman, but had the same engine and transmission). Once the Shermans and Pershings had landed with their Crew they quickly out did the T-34-85 of the North Koreans.


Side note: When Hitler attacked Russia, Russia was on its way to replace its Bolt Action Rifles with a semi-Automatic rifle like the American M1. The Germans were still relying on the M1898 Bolt Action Mauser as they main weapon. Stalin, put a stop to the conversion, more in an effort to get the most weapons to the troops then any other reason (Stalin also increased Sub-Machine Production for the same reason, to get more weapons into the hands of his soldiers as opposed to the best weapon into the hands of his soldiers).

The Germans were as shocked about the Russia Semi-Automatic Rifle as they were about the T-34 (and when the US invaded North African in November 1942, the American M1 Rifle). By 1942 the Germans had decided it was time to adopt a new Rifle, the first real Assault Rifle the MP-42. Its use increased as the war went along (Through never replacing the M1898 bolt action rifle in German Service) and the Germans viewed it as superior to the American and Russian Semi-Automatic Rifles (During the Cold War, it was believed that the Russian then copied the German Assault Rifle concept when it adopted the AK-47, but data released since the end of the Cold War indicate the Russians had adopted the AK-47's 7.62x39 round in 1939 through final adoption in its final form took till 1943. The Russians first used the 7.62x39 round in their then new SKS-45 starting in 1945 (Still a debate, the Russians said the SKS was used in the last months of the War, Western Writers still claim that is wrong, it was issued to late).

Just comments where Superior Training overcame Superior Weapons, all else being equal.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:33 AM

2. Herd Thinned

 

Dreadfully sorry if this offends, but there truly are times when such is the only alternative.

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Response to Ian Iam (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 11:05 AM

22. I wish for once, one of these people would survive.

The reason is, since this guy was apparently some kind of TeaBagger, I'd like to hear one say they did it because Glenn Beck, Limbaugh, or Sean Hannity convinced him that he needed to take such dire action to save "his country". I'd like specific clips played in court.

The ensuing civil suits sprouting from such testimony could change the voice of AM hate radio and Fox News forever without touching the 1st amendment.

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Response to Ian Iam (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:27 PM

29. Don't Find It Offensive at All

Days ago I was mulling over the same basic thing. Looks like they answered the question in my post "Is that scenario we see all the time on TV where they throw in a "flash-bang" to disorient the criminals so they can storm them and overtake them at all realistic or is it just good TV?" Sounds like that's exactly what they did and had to do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2301672

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:55 AM

3. Then they....

Nice cliffhanger!

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:03 AM

4. the media should never name in the press someone like this. It leads to others IMHO

 

Wouldn't it be better for the nation if we never knew the names of all the asssassins, extremists like the killer of Dr.Tiller, the McCowards out there and focus on the person or persons who are the victims instead of giving this assholle immortality in the press

I sure wish I didn't know the name of who killed John Lennon always linked to John Lennon as if each were equal.

If people knew they would get zero publicity name wise, maybe it would stop at least one
of these events from happening (at least a copy cat one).

imho

Good job to the police for ending this brutal situation without anyone else getting hurt.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:56 AM

6. Yes, lack of information is always better.

We should never know the details of any bad or distressing news. Bonus, we'd never know if there were copycats, because they wouldn't be reported. The government should tell the press what to report just in case they might provide too many details. This sounds like an excellent idea. I'm surprised it hasn't been tried before.

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Response to Tunkamerica (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:18 AM

9. whatever. always a negative about government by someone I guess.

 

why do some people always think of negatives about the government.

I am the government.
I don't hate myself.

people like these are not someone to idolize
yet so many idolize the coward in Oklahoma Cty, Colorado, Conn. and the freak who killed John Lennon.

the conspiracy theorists in the compound who blew themselves up in Waco thinking they could get away with killing human beings who happen to be federal agents

to paraphrase George Bernard Shaw
some people see things the way they are, but they aren't the way they see them.

Good job for the police.

Just wish I didn't know this assholes name.
Never heard it before, why would I want to hear it now.


and you know as you suggested it, there is something to be said that good news multiplies.
as does bad news.

If everyone goes for wellness, less people go to the doctor.

and that you can take to the bank, in the form of positive dividends for everyone.

without a spark, there is no flame

without a seed, there is no redwood

and its cold and snowy this morning, but to me, it's a Beautiful Morning
because a glass half full has nutrition enough, and nobody needs 48 ounces to sustain themselves for the next 90 minutes anyhow.


<iframe width="640" height="360" src="?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 08:39 AM

11. I think you're wrong about this

There is already way too much secrecy in the government.

But Thanks for The Rascals. I do love them

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Response to Tunkamerica (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:22 AM

16. The government shouldn't tell the press what to report......

but honestly, we should stop giving bad guys so much attention. We should lock them up forever and never let them talk to the press. It gives them undeserved attention that they may have been seeking in the first place.

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Response to musical_soul (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:33 AM

42. ridiculous. the press should have access to prisoners and prisoners

should have access to the press. If there's no story there the press won't take the time. The idea that they don't "deserve" access is your opinion and, to me, it's wrong. Freedom of the press is a pretty big deal.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:47 AM

10. Amen! I recommend we refer to them as "the little f**ker" or something equally complimentary. nt

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Response to raccoon (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:18 AM

15. How about...

The Sick Fuck du Jour?

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 08:58 AM

13. If you don't want to know the names, don't follow the news.

Knowing Mark David Chapman's name does not in any way affect my perception of what he did.

I find it hard to believe that not publishing the names of perpetrators would have any positive effect on crime rates.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 11:17 AM

23. Ever notice they get a middle name?

Heros are only refered to by their first and last, but when someone does something infamous and deadly they become John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, or in your point Mark David Chapman. Hitler was an exception. He was so bad he only needs one name, like the opposite of Cher.

That might have something to do with why we call the '80s "Giggalo" singer David Lee Roth. hahaha

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:02 PM

24. Maybe that is to reduce the likelihood of someone else with a similar

first and last name being mistaken for the bad guy.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:31 PM

30. Then there's The Famous Middle Name.

John Wayne Gacy
Elmer Wayne Henley

A whole lot more serial killers here:
http://www.newsoftheweird.com/wayne.html

My ex's middle name also. He was not a murderer but he was a sick narcissist.



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Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #30)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:40 PM

34. Put him in the John Wayne Bobbit category then

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Response to Bucky (Reply #34)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:43 PM

36. He's bigger than I am. Much bigger.

did lots of unbelieveable and horrible things to me, but no physical violence, and nothing he could be arrested for. Emotional and mental abuse.

Tried to nag me to death and almost succeeded. Then blamed me for getting sick and said I faked it to get attention and bribed my doctor to put me in the hospital.

Yeah he is a real piece o'work.

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Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #36)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:21 PM

39. Let's not start comparing exes....

I can beat everyone's love/war story. LOL

My first wife, the one I share our children with, sprayed me in the face with a can of Raid once. I'd forgotted about it untill my oldest son reminded me recently. She had a lot of spirit in those days, and was a "thrower". The phone company had to come out once a month to hook the phone up again. It was back when they were those big black dial phones. Ma Bell finally wised up and put a 30' cord on it.

Were good friends these days, in part because we have grandchildren, and because we both married much worse the second time. Both my exes were southpaws, and to this day no one can touch me with a left. I'll duck it every time. hahaha

I have to point out that it went both ways. She accused me of sharpening her kitchen knives and not telling her so she'd cut herself cooking. ...I did.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:40 AM

7. Good! n/t

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:56 AM

8. I am relieved for the child

Now maybe we should do something useful for war veterans.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:11 AM

14. I so wanna see a pic of this boy in his Mama's arms.

It's kind of like I want to see him smile. I want to feel that he truly will be ok. I want to hug him. lol

Get treatment little guy and know that Mom and the police were out there working to get you out the entire time. You were not as alone as it seemed.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:48 AM

18. I hope we don't see any photos of this boy or his family.

I do hope they get as much help as they need and privacy.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:05 PM

25. The linked article has a pic of the child. nt

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:57 AM

20. They really shouldn't be telling people how this ended.

Kid's alive, douchebag is dead. That's all anyone need know.

Too much info will help future hostage takers do their thing.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:10 PM

27. This whole episode got scant media coverage

I am still flummoxed as to why.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:23 PM

28. I thought everybody understood why

as to not tip off the insane bastard to the preparations of the task force overseeing the police response

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:33 PM

31. Because he was watching the coverage on his T.V.

n/t t

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:36 PM

32. You've made this same complaint on nearly every thread...

about this incident. Numerous people, including one reporter, have told you the reason. Moreover, all of the news reports I've watched on TV have explained why they didn't give it a ton of media attention; "we were trying to protect the child because the assailant may have access to radio and/or TV" and might be told what was going on. What is so bloody flummoxing about that?

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Response to DonViejo (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:41 AM

41. This is only time I have mentioned it on DU

You are mixing me up with somebody or something else.

Please get your facts straight before making a personal attack.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:42 PM

35. It was in Alabama, not New York City.

Location, location, location.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 04:36 PM

33. As a courthouse mug states:

cartoon of burglar wearing raccoon mask, holding sack of jewelry, with dog following him, caught in crosshairs:

CUT COURT COSTS

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:00 PM

38. The language quoted is not in the article linked.

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