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Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:39 AM

'Most lethal sniper in US history': Chris Kyle shot dead on Texas gun range.

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by uppityperson (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: The Independent.

A famous American marksman and author was shot dead yesterday on a Texas rifle range. Chris Kyle, the former Navy SEAL who claimed to have been the most prolific sniper in American history, had a bounty put on his head by insurgents in Iraq, who dubbed him "The Devil of Ramadi."

He was at Rough Creek Lodge's shooting range near Forth Worth, Texas, with another man. Both were fatally shot. Witnesses said a gunman opened fire on the men at around 3:30 yesterday afternoon before fleeing in a pick-up truck belonging to one of the victims, according to a local newspaper. The newspaper said a 25-year-old man was later taken into custody nearby and that charges were expected. The motive for the shooting is unclear.

Kyle, 38, wrote the best-selling book, "American Sniper: The Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in US Military History," about the 150-plus insurgents he killed between 1999 and 2009. He was being sued for defamation by Jesse Ventura, former Governor of Minnesota, over the book's claim that Kyle punched Ventura in a 2006 bar fight over unpatriotic remarks. Ventura said the punch never happened. Kyle had asked that Ventura's claims of invasion of privacy and "unjust enrichment" be dismissed, saying there was no legal basis for them. But a federal judge said the lawsuit should proceed. The suit was set to begin in August.

The married father of two, from Odessa, Texas, was president of Craft International, providing sniper and security training for the US military. He saw four tours of Iraq, during which he was shot twice. He received three Silver Stars and five Bronze Stars with Valor.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/most-lethal-sniper-in-us-history-chris-kyle-shot-dead-on-texas-gun-range-8478695.html



Yes, guns do kill people, quite a few people.

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Reply 'Most lethal sniper in US history': Chris Kyle shot dead on Texas gun range. (Original post)
another_liberal Feb 2013 OP
Bucky Feb 2013 #1
CincyDem Feb 2013 #5
bluedigger Feb 2013 #8
Ilsa Feb 2013 #38
bluedigger Feb 2013 #41
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #67
TeeYiYi Feb 2013 #72
RiverNoord Feb 2013 #83
Bucky Feb 2013 #81
BlueStreak Feb 2013 #43
Walk away Feb 2013 #62
klook Feb 2013 #49
another_liberal Feb 2013 #75
Bucky Feb 2013 #78
CincyDem Feb 2013 #2
caseymoz Feb 2013 #18
Arkansas Granny Feb 2013 #39
mbperrin Feb 2013 #61
Walk away Feb 2013 #88
mbperrin Feb 2013 #93
jsr Feb 2013 #3
Bucky Feb 2013 #6
left coaster Feb 2013 #19
Ter Feb 2013 #29
thucythucy Feb 2013 #35
Ter Feb 2013 #71
Bucky Feb 2013 #74
thucythucy Feb 2013 #79
BlueStreak Feb 2013 #63
Bucky Feb 2013 #70
BlueStreak Feb 2013 #95
JackRiddler Feb 2013 #68
Bucky Feb 2013 #73
Dyedinthewoolliberal Feb 2013 #4
valerief Feb 2013 #9
Bucky Feb 2013 #10
Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #12
Bucky Feb 2013 #16
truebluegreen Feb 2013 #28
Bucky Feb 2013 #32
Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #65
Bucky Feb 2013 #77
bowens43 Feb 2013 #87
Dyedinthewoolliberal Feb 2013 #13
Bucky Feb 2013 #15
homerunner Feb 2013 #26
homerunner Feb 2013 #25
Bucky Feb 2013 #27
homerunner Feb 2013 #31
roody Feb 2013 #37
another_liberal Feb 2013 #84
coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #50
bowens43 Feb 2013 #86
daleo Feb 2013 #90
Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #11
tama Feb 2013 #20
valerief Feb 2013 #7
coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #53
valerief Feb 2013 #60
lunasun Feb 2013 #14
NickB79 Feb 2013 #17
thatgemguy Feb 2013 #23
Bigmack Feb 2013 #21
Bucky Feb 2013 #22
Recursion Feb 2013 #44
Bucky Feb 2013 #51
coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #57
Mortos Feb 2013 #33
Festivito Feb 2013 #24
Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #30
coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #59
Jumping John Feb 2013 #34
Arrowhead2k1 Feb 2013 #96
derby378 Feb 2013 #36
Travis_0004 Feb 2013 #42
nenagh Feb 2013 #46
appleannie1 Feb 2013 #52
Posteritatis Feb 2013 #54
cantbeserious Feb 2013 #80
alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #40
Recursion Feb 2013 #45
WilliamPitt Feb 2013 #47
Posteritatis Feb 2013 #55
Bucky Feb 2013 #56
appleannie1 Feb 2013 #48
tawadi Feb 2013 #58
mbperrin Feb 2013 #64
lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #66
Walk away Feb 2013 #91
loudsue Feb 2013 #69
graham4anything Feb 2013 #76
peace13 Feb 2013 #82
tomm2thumbs Feb 2013 #89
peace13 Feb 2013 #92
tomm2thumbs Feb 2013 #94
lynne Feb 2013 #85
Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #98
go west young man Feb 2013 #97
Electric Monk Feb 2013 #99
iemitsu Feb 2013 #100
uppityperson Feb 2013 #101

Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:42 AM

1. If only he'd been allowed to carry a gun there, he could've defended himself...

Seriously, this sounds like a horrible murder. Absolutely disgusting. I'm glad they caught the guy. It seems so deliberate, you have to wonder which someone wanted a war hero dead so bad he'd go after him on a rifle range. Personal grudge?


=====

(On edit: I see now that the main suspect is another vet suffering from PTSD and that allegedly the Kyle and the other murder victim had gone to the shooting range to counsel the guy. This is a terrible tragedy. But it shows that even those whom society trusts with gun are capable of making judgment errors that lead to needless deaths. The fact remains that the death-by-gun rate in communities with strict gun laws is significantly lower than the rate in areas without them. Even if you think guns don't kill people but people do, we can't outlaw people but we can regulate guns.)

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Response to Bucky (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:45 AM

5. Ha ! Woulda beat you on that one if I didn't stop to fix that typo ! n/t

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Response to Bucky (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:48 AM

8. PTSD

The link doesn't have much of the story but it's been posted here a half dozen times so check out one of the others. He was counseling a fellow vet with PTSD...at a gun range.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:56 AM

38. Do we know that the PTSD wasn't a ruse

to get Kyle to meet him? Are there any more details on the shooter yet? I've read a couple of the articles. I can't help but wonder if there wasn't a personal grudge about something else that Kyle was unaware of.

I think it's great that Kyle wanted to help a fellow vet, but wouldn't it be better to do that kind of volunteer work under the direction of a vet counselor?

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #38)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:00 PM

41. The backstory has yet to develop.

I think it's safe to say that Kyle seemed ill-suited and unqualified to provide counseling services. He was a very good impersonal killer, though, so he had that going for him.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #38)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:56 PM

67. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I'll take it on face value that a veteran at a gun range who needed some sort of counseling or talking to has PTSD.

I don't go looking for conspiracies under every bush.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #67)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:26 PM

72. And yet...

...under every Bush you'll probably find a conspiracy.

TYY

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Response to TeeYiYi (Reply #72)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:52 PM

83. LOL

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #67)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:42 PM

81. Ha!

under every bush.

Thank you for getting the capitalization right.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:07 PM

43. Think about those words "gone to the shooting range to counsel the guy"

I hope everybody can instantly see how insane that very concept is. You take a guy suffering from PTSD to a shooting range? WTF?

That doesn't justify the shooting or make it any less of a tragedy. Indeed, the irony of the stupidity of (some) gun people just makes it all the more tragic.

"I don't know what went wrong. My buddy Fred is an alcoholic who fell off the wagon, so I decided the best thing for him was an outing to the bar to help him deal with it."

"My Pal Rick has been convicted of animal abuse, so I thought maybe it would help to take an outing to the chicken fights."

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #43)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:46 PM

62. Yes but Fred could only cry in your beer and Rick's chicken can only peck you! nt

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Response to Bucky (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:32 PM

49. "We can't outlaw people but we can regulate guns"

would make a pretty good bumper sticker.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:30 PM

75. It was a veteran with PTSD?

Add yet two more names (and perhaps three) to the list of those who have died because of our pointless, unnecessary "wars of choice."

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #75)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:35 PM

78. Amen.

It's three, by the way. The butterfly effects of Bush lying to us to go grab Iraq's oil will never cease.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:43 AM

2. I'm sure he would have been fine if...

...he had a gun close by for protection and was trained to use it. Yep, woulda been fine.

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Response to CincyDem (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:08 AM

18. That's beside the point.


At least he would have had a fighting chance. If that criminal had only played by the rules and given him the chance to draw. Then truly, the criminals would only win 50 percent of the time, just like in the Old West.

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Response to CincyDem (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:58 AM

39. Well, you know, what could possibly go wrong?

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Response to CincyDem (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:43 PM

61. I KNOW! Those pesky no-gun zones are putting us all in

danger!!

We need MOAR GUNZ!

Yes, for some reason, all I'm getting from the loonies is that he was hunted down by parties unknown for reasons unknown using techniques unknown in order to take down the "most lethal man in American." Which would actually prove that really excellent gun skills is a magnet to crime, not a deterrent.

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Response to mbperrin (Reply #61)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:08 PM

88. It's incredible that the guy at the top of the gun ownership pyramid...

was killed by a gun. It's usually the folks at the bottom of the pyramid (people stupid enough to think that having a gun in their house makes them or their family safer) that get shot and killed!

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Response to Walk away (Reply #88)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:23 PM

93. Really does lend credence to the statistic that simply owning a gun makes it

43 times more likely that you will be involved in gun violence, whether by injury or death.

I mean, if ever an expert there was, this guy was bound to be one.

Now, about arming all those teachers....

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:43 AM

3. Oh well.

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Response to jsr (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:47 AM

6. It's not a ho-hum thing, JSR. This is what gun regulation is supposed to stop.

Plus, I might add, we know absolutely nothing about what Kyle's views on gun control were. Not that it matters. I want to see assault weapons taken off the market to prevent the murders of people regardless of their views on the 2nd Amendment. And you should, too.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:10 AM

19. Here is an inkling as to Kyle's views on gun control..

"In the wake of the slayings of 20 children and six adults at a school in Newtown, Connecticut in December, Kyle was interviewed in January about rising calls for curbing gun violence in the United States. He told the website guns.com that he favored arming teachers who have been screened and trained and spoke against restrictions on gun owners."


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/03/us-usa-crime-sniper-idUSBRE91202K20130203?feedType=RSS


But, I agree that this does sound like a case of murder.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:43 AM

29. When US government snipers give up their guns, then we'll talk about gun-control

 

Them first.

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Response to Ter (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:52 AM

35. Explain your reasoning.

Are you saying you need your gun to protect you from "US government snipers"?

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:24 PM

71. No

 

I'm saying we should set by example. The government always talks about gun-control, yet they keep upgrading their own arms. They should disarm, not us. Stop the wars, stop the snipers, and most of all, stop the drones and NDAA.

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Response to Ter (Reply #71)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:29 PM

74. You want the government to disarm? Really?

You can't make policy starting from a tabula rasa starting point.

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Response to Ter (Reply #71)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:38 PM

79. I think we should stop the wars,

stop the killing, cut "defense" spending AND implement meaningful gun reform.

As a society we can work toward more than one goal at a time.

BTW, it isn't only "government" talking about gun control.

I'd say Newtown parents, and their allies. and very many millions of citizens are now the ones most adamant that something must be done to curb the easy access to highly lethal weaponry. "Government" by and large is merely reacting to this new reality.

Whether anything meaningful will be done, especially on the federal level, remains to be seen.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:46 PM

63. I don't think gun control laws are intended to address this sort of thing

This is one of those things that falls under the "price of 'freedom' ".

As long as it is legal to own guns, there is nothing that can prevent a bunch of mentally disturbed people from blasting each other.

I suppose if a person is receiving treatment for PTSD, they should be in a database that makes it illegal form them to buy or possess firearms. But that would have the side-effect of discouraging them from seeking treatment.

Which is more important to you, your sanity or your guns? For most gun owners, the answer to that question is obvious.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #63)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:24 PM

70. Oh, obviously. Nothing will stop every gun murder in America.

I didn't mean to imply THAT. In fact, that's the real conundrum of gun control policy. If you do something and it prevents a murder that might otherwise have happened, you'll never know. Meanwhile, murders you didn't prevent continue to make the news.

You have to look at hard numbers and not give a shit about the anecdotes, even though it's the anecdotes that create the political will to regulate guns. In the aggregate, communities with strict gun control laws have lower than average gun homicide rates. Communities with lax gun control laws have higher than average gun homicide rates. But no one tells us this on TV because it's boring. For some places, it bores some people to death.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #70)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:28 PM

95. Agreed. nt.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:08 PM

68. Gun regulation wouldn't apply to Iraq where most of his life's portion of shooting was done.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #68)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:27 PM

73. I admire your talent for making irrelevant comments.

But for the record, Iraq's American-level proliferation of firearms didn't prevent a dictator from taking over their government & introducing a totalitarian regime, didn't prevent a modern army from conquering their country, and didn't prevent complete chaos from rising up and taking over their streets after the initial crisis was over.

But as I said above, this has nothing to do with the fact that a mad was murdered by another man who shouldn't have had a gun in his hands.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:45 AM

4. Hmmmmmmmmmm

how does that saying go? "You live by the sword, you die by the sword"

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:48 AM

9. +1

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:50 AM

10. I think you're ignoring something pretty big here.

He didn't die in combat. He was murdered the way that killer might've murdered any one of us.

Unless this was some Iraqi who'd tracked him down for killing a family member (pretty unlikely, but possible) this was not a "by the sword" killing. This was murder.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:52 AM

12. lol it's not murder if it was an iraqi?

 

do you hear yourself?

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Response to Phillip McCleod (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:00 AM

16. It's not murder if it's in a battlefield, no. And a sniper, if you think about it...

is going to do a lot less damage to civilians than a drone, an airstrike, or a swarm of Marines moving house-to-house through an Iraqi neighborhood. Obviously I don't think attacking Iraq in the first place was anything but malicious and wrongheaded. But I'm not so heartless as to laugh at the death of a man who died trying to be a humanitarian to a suffering fellow vet. And I'm not so blind, as you seem to be, that I'll blame the loyal-serving ground troops for the sins of the Bush gang.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:43 AM

28. Actually, I'd say it is murder on a battlefield.

State-sanctioned murder.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #28)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:51 AM

32. You certainly *can* say that. But you got to keep in mind...

that you're basically making up your own definitions to well established terms. You can call it "floral display" if you like. For the rest of society there's a core understanding that battles are different than peace, even if you can't see the difference.

This is, of course, not to say that the battles he fought in were necessary, well chosen, or not the result of a crooked bunch of oil-grabbers who'd hijacked the American government. But I don't want to live in a country where the military is free to ignore or countermand the directives of the civilian government.

And, again, without defending the particular views of this one sniper, I will say that a sniper is a far more selective killer in a battlefield than an airstrike, a scud, a mortar, a bunkerbuster, a tank, a drone, or a swarm of troops going house to house through a neighborhood looking for a suspected insurgent. Snipers rarely kill innocents; a precision targeting that most of American battlefield firepower cannot claim.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:55 PM

65. i'm afraid i can't be so blaise about killing

 

even when the government says it's ok. what i won't do is fetishize the military. my 17 year old son doesn't remember a time when we weren't at war. not every soldier is a hero. some are just killers. and some are murderers.

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Response to Phillip McCleod (Reply #65)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:34 PM

77. No one's more offended than me about the all-war policy Bush started in 2002

But that doesn't mean we get to make false equivalencies between military zones and civilian zones. In fact, that sort of false comparison--saying the whole country is a war zone because of the short-lived threat from terrorists--is the core of the Bush administration's sins.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:04 PM

87. Of course its murder

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Response to Bucky (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:52 AM

13. Well,

my comment was more along the lines of his whole life focus, it seems, is about killing and guns. I suppose this also could qualify as irony in the 1st degree...............

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:55 AM

15. Well, there's certainly a link between the sword he bore and the sword he fell by.

Looking at the other stories in LBN, it turns out he was on the rifle range with a buddy to help counsel a 3rd guy who was suffering from PTSD. In hindsight, not the best meeting spot. But he died trying to be a humanitarian.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #15)


Response to Bucky (Reply #10)


Response to homerunner (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:43 AM

27. I don't think you understand what "die by the sword" means.

I don't apologize for his world view, but he didn't didn't die as a result of his killing people. He was murdered, apparently, because he was trying to encourage a vet with PTSD to seek treatment. There might be some irony there, but if he'd been an asshole callous to the suffering of a fellow human being that morning, he'd still be alive.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #27)


Response to Bucky (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:54 AM

37. There is some interesting karma

About it

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Response to roody (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:53 PM

84. To be completely frank . . .

To be completely frank, I also doubt if we have any irony left for the rest of the week.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:33 PM

50. As if snipers don't murder people. You might want to watch (or re-watch)

 

"Full Metal Jacket" (the last 30 minutes) if you don't think snipers murder. Don't want to spoil the movie for those who haven't seen it, so I'll leave it at that.

Oh wait, if a sniper does it on a battlefield, it doesn't qualify as 'murder'? But if a sniper is killed on a gun range it is 'murder'?

Kyle was an asshole who sought to profit from having taken others' lives BY WRITING A BOOK ABOUT IT. Jeesh. Most decent combat vets don't like to discuss the casualites they inflicted, much less brag about it.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:03 PM

86. Huh?

Of course it is. The claims to be one of the most prolific murderers in US history... sounds like karma kicked in...

Live by the sword...

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Response to Bucky (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:15 PM

90. I think he is getting at the notion of karma

Which is supposed to work in multiple ways and on multiple levels. It doesn't have to be directly comparable tit for tat retribution. Also karma in this case would not care whether the sniper's killings were technically legal, if the wars were unjust.

I am not saying that I personally believe in the concept, though it does have a certain appeal to many people.

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:50 AM

11. aw you beat me to it!

 

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:16 AM

20. ...

 

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
http://bible.cc/matthew/26-52.htm

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:48 AM

7. If only he'd had the latest in gun-implant surgery--a gun implanted in

your forehead and another in the back of your head. They're triggered by thoughts.

Yep, that would have saved him. Gun implants, because implants aren't just for boobies anymore.

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Response to valerief (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:36 PM

53. LOL - For some reason, I am flashing on the SNL video short "Laser Cats" :) - n/t

 

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #53)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:42 PM

60. Ha! Just saw it. Funny!!!! nt

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:54 AM

14. You can disagree with someone's view - but why he made up that story

about Ventura and punching him was strange. All witnesses say it did not go down that way.
Ventura should continue the suit on his estate as they will continue to make $$ off the book that has the lie about Ventura in it

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:02 AM

17. Most deadly sniper on the battlefield, shot and killed at home

My sincere condolences go out to his family and friends, but I have to say, the irony is astounding here.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:26 AM

23. Live by the sword, die by the sword... n/t

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:17 AM

21. I believe the deadliest sniper in US history...

...was Carlos Hathcock.... a Marine sniper in Vietnam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Hathcock

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Response to Bigmack (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:23 AM

22. Wow, talk about ironic.

But at least he lived up to his name. I only wish he'd written an autobio called Going Off Hathcock'd

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Response to Bucky (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:13 PM

44. WTH? Hathcock was a wonderful human being and saved many lives

He was horribly wounded while rescuing a half-dozen people from a burning tank. I met him very early in my Marine Corps career, just before he died. Seriously, not cool

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Response to Recursion (Reply #44)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:34 PM

51. Chill. It was a joke about his name.

If you notice, upthread, I'm the one NOT blaming the country's gun problems on trained military snipers.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #44)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:39 PM

57. Hathcock also didn't go around beating his chest and bragging about

 

how lethal he was, IIRC, unlike this douchenozzle Kyle. I only know about Hathcock second-hand from reading about him. Thanks for your mention of him.

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Response to Bigmack (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:51 AM

33. Chris Kyle far surpassed Carlos Hathcock

Chris had 160 confirmed kills (confirmed by the Department of Defense) though he claimed 255, Carlos had 93.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Kyle

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:37 AM

24. Wasn't there anyone around carrying guns at a gun range?

Hmmm.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:44 AM

30. People infatuated with guns get shot a lot and shoot other people a lot too.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:41 PM

59. This is some sad wisdom, my friend, and very Lincoln-esque, I might

 

add. Belies your screen name, I would say.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:52 AM

34. Maybe it was self defense. Kyle doesn't seem like a very law and

 

order kind of guy. More like a bully.

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Response to Jumping John (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:35 PM

96. I guess he wasn't that big of a fan of the first amendment then...

nt

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:53 AM

36. Every one of you who responded to the OP with more cutesy snark against gun owners...

...have not only disrespected a man who put his life on the line for his country, but also potentially hurt the perception that many Americans have towards Democrats.

I am the proud uncle of a Marine sniper who has performed tours of duty in Afghanistan. If it was him who had been shot instead of Kyle, my rage against your dismissive clucking would have been thoroughly justified.

My heart goes out to Kyle's family and friends. And that area is more properly classified as a resort instead of a gun range - I've driven through that area of Texas before while hunting ghost towns and fossils.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:04 PM

42. +1

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Response to derby378 (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:22 PM

46. "He saw four tours (of duty) in Iraq, during which he was shot twice...

He received three Silver Stars and five Bronze Stars with Valour"

RIP.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:35 PM

52. No one is disrespecting Kyle. They are disrespecting the stupid argument that if everyone

was armed there would be no more killings. And when someone as trained as he was gets killed at a shooting range, it proves how dumb that argument really is.

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Response to appleannie1 (Reply #52)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:39 PM

54. Please explain how responding to this with "oh well" is anything but disrespect. (nt)

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Response to derby378 (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:39 PM

80. What Does It Say About A Country And Its Culture That Has To Rely On Snipers?

eom

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:00 PM

40. Thaaaaaat's a shame

...

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #40)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:14 PM

45. Yeah, it really is

Snipers save lives. One sniper risking his life means a platoon of Marines or Rangers don't have to go storm that building.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:25 PM

47. There is an incredible amount of unbelievable shit-ass rotten foulness in this thread.

Truly disgraceful. Truly.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #47)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:39 PM

55. Yep. People aren't actively cheering it but some are coming pretty close. (nt)

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #47)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:39 PM

56. I can't tell from the faint echo which moral high ground you're yodeling from.

Are you mad at the people for laughing at the supposed "karma" of the event or the people saying it a sad loss to an honorable life? The thing about snipers, you'll notice, is their precision.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:30 PM

48. Gee, a man with a gun was killed by a man with a gun. Whoda thunk.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:40 PM

58. Predictable responses. eom

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Response to tawadi (Reply #58)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:51 PM

64. Yes, logical, too, but gun lovers will still persist with their old has-been

and beaten-down arguments just like they were fresh new rhetoric.

Best thing I've seen so far: That new bumper sticker: We can't outlaw people, but we can regulate guns.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:55 PM

66. I have my dad's Bronze Star here on my wall. Just one.

Me? Zero. I don't have dad's kind of courage.

You know what? For that reason alone, I think it's appropriate for the oh-so sensitive and morally-tuned among us to cut him some fucking slack and hope that the authorities find justice for his family.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #66)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:16 PM

91. My father was a weapons expert and an officer in the Army Rangers.

When he left the service he put away the war and guns and lived productive and peaceful life. He would never have a gun in the house. Plenty of brave men who served their country do not come home to glorify guns, violence and death. Putting yourself in the middle of the gun culture is dangerous and, although it is regretful, it should never be surprising that it can lead to death by gun.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:20 PM

69. I can't wrap my mind around killing over 150 people.

Taking people's lives. I can't imagine it. War so sucks, and there are people who live for that kind of thrill, or whatever it is.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:33 PM

76. if only he had a gun as the NRA keeps saying.

 

live by the gun, die by the gun.
and there is always a faster gunslinger.

of course, without a gun or bullet, this guy (I have to say I never heard of him before) would be alive.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:45 PM

82. I wonder why the folks at the range didn't stop the killer from leaving the scene?

I thought guns made us safer.

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Response to peace13 (Reply #82)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:12 PM

89. that question is truly the one I want to know

any killing like this is senseless and terrible, but given all of those folks who may have had guns at the range - weapons loaded, out and ready to fire... and who were well trained and likely better aim than most.... still, the perpetrator got away?

The story unfolding will bring more news I'm sure, but for the killer to exit the scene?

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Response to tomm2thumbs (Reply #89)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:19 PM

92. Even the truck tires made it out alive!

It is clear that the gun lovers will not offer the solution to the problem, even when their own are gunned down!

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Response to peace13 (Reply #92)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:26 PM

94. it does beg the question

what happened after the initial shooting? did people react at all, even with guns at the ready or is the public, even with training, skills and weapons, not the answer to bad folks with guns?

No doubt they would attempt to protect themselves if they knew of a threat at home where they had time to wrap their heads around the problem, but do they actually choose to have a hand at defending or protecting others in public situations? Did anyone try? I am interested to find out in this particular case.

Could be nobody wanted to get involved...


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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:55 PM

85. Just goes to prove -

- that even the most vigilant defender - someone who had to constantly be aware of threats during his 4 tours of Iraq - was not some wild-west gunslinger thinking that everyone was out for him. His guard was down as he didn't perceive a threat from a friend.

My thoughts and prayers go out to his family. Have to feel bad for the family of the man that shot them, too. Until we better address mental health issues, including PTSD, these sad stories will continue.

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Response to lynne (Reply #85)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:43 PM

98. As a vet, serious friggin irony here...I feel bad for his family, the best sniper out to

get it on a shooting range no less....wow.

What was NRA saying....good guys and guns and whatever pablum they put out?

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:40 PM

97. I have a feeling this is a business related killing.

PTSD is part of it but I bet there's more possibly involving a job promise or something to that effect.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:48 PM

99. Another example of when "more guns will fix things" was the wrong answer.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:48 PM

100. Live by the sword (gun) die by the sword.

I struggle to find sympathy for a man who would spend his life killing others.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:50 PM

101. Locking as a duplicate. Thanks for understanding. Here's the link...

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