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Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:26 AM

Pat McCrory Lashes Out Against 'Educational Elite' And Liberal Arts College Courses

Source: Huffington Post

Pat McCrory Lashes Out Against 'Educational Elite' And Liberal Arts College Courses
The Huffington Post | By Tyler Kingkade Posted: 02/02/2013 11:48 am EST

North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory (R) set off a firestorm this week when he declared "educational elite" have taken over colleges,
and lashed out over what he says are worthless courses that offer "no chances of getting people jobs."

In a national radio interview Tuesday with Bill Bennett, U.S. Education Secretary during the Reagan administration, McCrory said there's a major disconnect between what skills are taught at the state's public universities and what businesses want out of college graduates.

So Im going to adjust my education curriculum to what business and commerce needs to get our kids jobs as opposed to moving back in with their parents after they graduate with debt," McCrory said, adding, "What are we teaching these courses for if they're not going to help get a job?"

McCrory said he doesn't believe state tax dollars should be used to help students at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill study for a bachelor's degree in gender studies or to take classes on the Swahili language.


Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/03/pat-mccrory-college_n_2600579.html?utm_hp_ref=business&ir=Business

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Reply Pat McCrory Lashes Out Against 'Educational Elite' And Liberal Arts College Courses (Original post)
Judi Lynn Feb 2013 OP
cer7711 Feb 2013 #1
truebluegreen Feb 2013 #17
harmonicon Feb 2013 #23
cer7711 Feb 2013 #49
Le Taz Hot Feb 2013 #73
octoberlib Feb 2013 #2
countmyvote4real Feb 2013 #3
LarryNM Feb 2013 #4
DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #5
madrchsod Feb 2013 #13
Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2013 #34
msanthrope Feb 2013 #66
Botany Feb 2013 #35
freshwest Feb 2013 #70
du_grad Feb 2013 #103
freshwest Feb 2013 #104
AlbertCat Feb 2013 #42
ReRe Feb 2013 #6
Hissyspit Feb 2013 #7
Berlum Feb 2013 #8
ronnie624 Feb 2013 #102
melm00se Feb 2013 #9
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #79
another_liberal Feb 2013 #10
wildeyed Feb 2013 #26
another_liberal Feb 2013 #32
Posteritatis Feb 2013 #68
another_liberal Feb 2013 #87
Posteritatis Feb 2013 #88
another_liberal Feb 2013 #91
NWHarkness Feb 2013 #11
wildeyed Feb 2013 #27
dlwickham Feb 2013 #29
Crowman1979 Feb 2013 #30
WilmywoodNCparalegal Feb 2013 #108
dlwickham Feb 2013 #115
formercia Feb 2013 #33
alp227 Feb 2013 #37
Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2013 #97
cer7711 Feb 2013 #50
NCcoast Feb 2013 #59
Jamastiene Feb 2013 #95
John2 Feb 2013 #69
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #80
horsedoc Feb 2013 #12
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2013 #14
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2013 #15
mtasselin Feb 2013 #16
tarheelsunc Feb 2013 #18
obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #28
NCcoast Feb 2013 #60
mnhtnbb Feb 2013 #62
tanyev Feb 2013 #19
Agony Feb 2013 #20
harmonicon Feb 2013 #21
Ford_Prefect Feb 2013 #22
wildeyed Feb 2013 #25
mwooldri Feb 2013 #39
wildeyed Feb 2013 #48
mnhtnbb Feb 2013 #64
John2 Feb 2013 #71
okaawhatever Feb 2013 #90
Ford_Prefect Feb 2013 #94
okaawhatever Feb 2013 #96
mnhtnbb Feb 2013 #63
okaawhatever Feb 2013 #92
wildeyed Feb 2013 #106
okaawhatever Feb 2013 #110
wildeyed Feb 2013 #111
okaawhatever Feb 2013 #112
wildeyed Feb 2013 #24
pkdu Feb 2013 #54
riderinthestorm Feb 2013 #55
lastlib Feb 2013 #31
awoke_in_2003 Feb 2013 #47
mwooldri Feb 2013 #36
dotymed Feb 2013 #38
sulphurdunn Feb 2013 #40
AlbertCat Feb 2013 #41
Adsos Letter Feb 2013 #98
blackspade Feb 2013 #43
The Wizard Feb 2013 #44
sulphurdunn Feb 2013 #100
The Wizard Feb 2013 #45
Democrats_win Feb 2013 #46
coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #51
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #52
coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #53
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #65
factsarenotfair Feb 2013 #56
southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #57
kiranon Feb 2013 #58
wishlist Feb 2013 #61
Zoeisright Feb 2013 #67
JI7 Feb 2013 #72
Jamastiene Feb 2013 #74
yardwork Feb 2013 #89
davidthegnome Feb 2013 #75
Deep13 Feb 2013 #76
patrice Feb 2013 #77
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #78
okwmember Feb 2013 #81
Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2013 #99
OneGrassRoot Feb 2013 #82
deutsey Feb 2013 #83
DonCoquixote Feb 2013 #84
DonCoquixote Feb 2013 #85
hack89 Feb 2013 #109
okaawhatever Feb 2013 #86
treestar Feb 2013 #93
ladjf Feb 2013 #101
Douglas Carpenter Feb 2013 #105
Blandocyte Feb 2013 #107
libnnc Feb 2013 #113
hue Feb 2013 #114

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:45 AM

1. Higher Education Means Indoctrinating Yourself To Be A Mindless Worker Drone . . .

. . . proficient in the skills of the moment "business and commerce" demand you have. Before they outsource your job to someone making a fraction of your wage.

I thought you knew that? Sheeple.

(Note: the above sentiments brought to you courtesy of Pat McCrory)

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Response to cer7711 (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:55 AM

17. Businesses always want to out-source their costs

and having universities train their workers is a big saving for them. Mindless worker drones are much easier to mislead and control than people who have been taught critical thinking or anything about the wide world outside their econ or MBA classes.

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Response to cer7711 (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:24 AM

23. Wow! "Sheeple."

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:11 PM

49. I Hope You're Being As Sarcastic As I Was

Last edited Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:56 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm mocking the attitude Pat McCrory is exhibiting here: that higher education should consist of nothing but those mandatory courses and electives pre-determined by the business and Chamber of Commerce elite to be immediately useful. It's the old tired, brain-dead objection made by heartless pragmatists and cultural philistines everywhere: that higher education should consist of nothing but that which allows one to immediately earn a bigger paycheck.

I'd like to introduce Mr. McCrory to Michael Roth (not that McCrory would listen):
........................................................

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-roth/whats-a-liberal-arts-educ_b_147584.html

What's A Liberal Arts Education Good For? by Michael Roth


A successful liberal arts education develops the capacity for innovation and for judgment. Those who can image how best to reconfigure existing resources and project future results will be the shapers of our economy and culture. We seldom get to have all the information we would like, but still we must act. The habits of mind developed in a liberal arts context often result in combinations of focus and flexibility that make for intelligent, and sometimes courageous risk taking for critical assessment of those risks.

The possibilities for free study, experimentation and risk taking need protection and cultivation. Looking around the world, we find no shortage of thugs who desecrate or murder those who seek to produce a more meaningful culture. And here at home we can easily see how mindless indifference to the contemporary arts and sciences facilitates the destruction of cultural memory and creative potential.

America's great universities and colleges must continue to offer a rigorous and innovative liberal arts education. A liberal education remains a resource years after graduation because it helps us to address problems and potential in our lives with passion, commitment and a sense of possibility. A liberal education teaches freedom by example, through the experience of free research, thinking and expression; and ideally, it inspires us to carry this example, this experience of meaningful freedom, from campus to community.

The American model of liberal arts education emphasizes freedom and experimentation as tools for students to develop meaningful ways of working after graduation. Many liberal arts students become innovators and productive risk takers, translating liberal arts ideals into effective, productive work in the world. That is what a liberal education is good for.

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Response to cer7711 (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 06:45 PM

73. My husband has said for years,

we're no longer educating future scholars, we're educating future consumers. It's one of the reasons they dumbed down the curriculum after the Boomers. We asked too many questions.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:53 AM

2. Good grief. What a disgrace, nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:57 AM

3. Sad

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:25 AM

4. More Fascist U.S. n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:25 AM

5. Hmm, let's see: Gov. Pat McCrory > Wikipedia > Early life, education and business career > ...

... Catawba College > "Catawba College is a private, coeducational liberal arts college in Salisbury, North Carolina, USA." > Academics > "Through its residential day program, Catawba College offers the B.A., B.S., and B.F.A. degrees in over 30 undergraduate majors, with 22 concentrations available, in a variety of disciplines, including athletic training, biology, business administration, chemistry, communication, education, English, environmental science, French, history, mathematics, medical technology, music, musical theatre, physical education, political science and pre-law, pre-med, pre-ministerial, pre-pharmacy, psychology, recreation, religion, philosophy, sociology, Spanish, sports management, sustainable business and community development, and theatre arts."

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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:49 AM

13. french and spainish? oh my god!-theatre arts!!!

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:42 AM

34. Ay, caramba!! Sacre bleu!! I just met a girl named Maria, and nothing's quite the same....

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:13 PM

66. No doubt there were French-speaking thespians!! nt

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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:02 AM

35. One little trip w/ the google machine brings up:

Catawba College in Salisbury, NC is a private, coeducational liberal arts college
established in 1851, affiliated with the United Church of Christ.

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Response to Botany (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 05:40 PM

70. Ah-ha! And there it is!

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Response to freshwest (Reply #70)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:07 AM

103. The UCC is very liberal

I was raised in the UCC, although I do not now attend any church. The United Church of Christ is a very liberal Protestant denomination, and it absolutely is NOT a Bible-thumping-type church. The clergy are college educated, not "called to preach." It was formed in the 1950's from a merger of the Congregational Christian Churches and the Evangelical Reformed Church, which trace back to the Puritans.

http://www.ucc.org/education/polity/pdf-folder/chart-origins-of-the-ucc.pdf

It is an all-inclusive denomination that was one of the first to allow women into its ministry. It has also led the way in being accepting of anyone regardless of their sexual orientation or background.

http://www.ucc.org/god-is-still-speaking/

I attended a small liberal arts college in Ohio. I transferred out my junior year and spent one year at a state university, where I picked up some 300+ level science courses that helped me a lot in my eventual career, which is medical technology. However, I returned my senior year and graduated with a B.A. in Biology. The "liberal arts" courses I took, while not necessarily being a prerequisite for my current job as a clinical microbiology technologist, had value later in life for me, although I could not see it at the time.

A liberal arts college education does not necessarily equate to attending a vocational school, where one only learns things pertaining to their eventual job. My vocation required college level science courses before I could be accepted for a year's internship in a clinical laboratory. The science courses at the state university were part of the college of liberal arts, which had universal requirements of everyone before they majored in other liberal arts fields.

It is sad that kids nowadays graduate with such a huge load of debt. I had college loans and, luckily, a half scholarship. The loans were not comparable to what kids owe today, even if 1970's dollars were converted to the inflation today. I graduated in 1971 and everything was paid by 1975.

I will say that there is such a shortage of people with my training that, at age 63, I could easily work another ten years in my field and have no fear that I would lose my job. Our hospital had to lay off two techs in the middle of the recession and they had jobs within less than a month at another local hospital without having to relocate. If there had been no local jobs, they easily could have found jobs in other areas of the country. One of my younger coworkers went to another liberal arts college near my alma mater. She majored in chemistry. She's been out for over 10 years and is still paying college loans, and probably will be for quite some time.

Has my course in Roman History that I took as a senior in college helped me in my job? Well, not in any direct sense. However, one goes to college to gain an education - an appreciation for what came before and what will come after we attend. It teaches us to think. My university sent many students on into medicine and law. I graduated in 1971. Many of my fellow graduates have gone on into quite interesting professions - some in their major, others not. A liberal arts education can, unfortunately, be a luxury for the mind in this day and age.

My daughter graduated from a state university in 2002 and got a B.A. in Art History. She did work at our local Art Museum for a short time but, sadly, they really didn't utilize her education and only really looked at people with doctorates for long term jobs that actually worked with the art collection. She left, worked in a bank for awhile, and, on her own, decided to go back to school to become a registered nurse. Could she have done this right out of high school (and saved us about $25,000)? I suppose. However, her college background has helped her attain a position in medical ICU only a couple of years out of nursing school. She has told me that her college background helped a lot with her nursing courses.

This is a sticky question that has been floating around for decades, and will never easily be answered. For this bozo to go lashing out at state school students, when he himself attended a liberal arts school, is grossly unfair. There is, unfortunately, some snobbery attached to SOME students of private schools, especially ones whose parents had the money to pay cash.

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Response to du_grad (Reply #103)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:26 AM

104. Yes, he's going after people in PUBLIC schools. In other words, the ones that can't afford private.

I went to public universities and in 1969 they had already begun the shift away from liberal studies, saying 'that's not where the jobs are going to be.' But this guy, like all these GOP, look down on those of us who had to go to school on our own. Or took loans, which I am glad to say I did very little. He is now, if not having always been, an entitled snob. The GOP through their mouthpieces want all PUBLIC education gone. Then the only one who will ever get that are the rich. This is not what America needs, it didn't work in the past. They pushing us down.

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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:13 AM

42. McCory obviously majored in....

....musical theatre.... because he's a farce.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:34 AM

6. Ha! (as Tweety says it)

K&R

.... Whew! (long siren-like slow whistle).... Why do these right wingers do this? They open their mouths and stick their entire leg down their throats.

Well, good. There goes another winger governor. There is absolutely no way the state educators are going to allow UNC-Chapel Hill to be turned into a technical college. Or any other major university in the state.

That's just down-right anti-American, to talk like that as a governor. You reckon this guy knows what country he's in?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 05:55 AM

8. Republicans want to create a permanent Prole class

...to serve the 1% (R).

Soooo totally unAmerican.

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Response to Berlum (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:02 AM

102. They want us ignorant, confused and powerless.

Words cannot express my loathing.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 06:33 AM

9. Governor McCrory

needs to understand that colleges and universities, for the most part, are not vocational schools. they teach you how to think and learn and THOSE is the true benefits of a college level education.

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Response to melm00se (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:43 PM

79. I always tell young people that their college education is only partly about

the facts they learn in their respective major field. A lot of it is about setting a goal and sticking with it through thick and thin. It's also a lot about learning to love learning for its own sake. If you're lucky, a college education teaches you to become an autodidact in things other than your field of study.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 06:58 AM

10. Yeah, State-supported trade schools are good enough for our kids.

Last edited Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:24 AM - Edit history (1)

The good Governor asks, "What are we teaching these courses for if they're not going to help get a job?"

What good did a liberal arts education ever do anyone, except maybe Ronald Reagan and many of our other former Presidents, that is.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:33 AM

26. MCrory himself has a degree in education and poli sci.

So yeah, there is some hypocrisy going on here.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:23 AM

32. What a hoot!

And what a dickweed for a Governor.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 05:18 PM

68. Pity that's a bipartisan attitude...

Whenever the state of college education shows up here there's no shortage of DUers saying exactly the same thing. Speaking as someone with a pair of history degrees who is currently employed, that attitude sucks. ;P

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #68)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:08 PM

87. You do realize . . .?

You do realize my comment was meant sarcastically, right? That's why I chose the Conservatives' Saint Ronald Reagan as an example of what a liberal arts degree can do for you.

By the way, I also have "a pair" of degrees in history. My PhD is still ABD.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #87)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:11 PM

88. Oh, I know.

I'm just routinely annoyed that the attitude you're poking at there is expressed very, very sincerely on DU quite often.

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #88)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:17 PM

91. That would set me off as well.

It is a very short-sighted way of looking at education. After all, today's writers and artists are likely to be remembered far longer than our much more numerous bean-counters and bankers.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:13 AM

11. I wonder why he said "Swahili"

I mean, he could have said Hungarian or Swedish, but he chose Swahili.

I can't imagine why...

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Response to NWHarkness (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:36 AM

27. As someone in my Twitter feed commented,

McCrory is just another Jesse Helms with a prettier smile.

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Response to dlwickham (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:17 AM

30. That has more to do with grade fixing for college athletes,

as opposed to the studies program itself.

Although I never hear these RW-asshats talk against grade-fixing for college athletes, since their constituents worship football.

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Response to dlwickham (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:01 AM

108. The post above is correct

The African American Studies program is under scrutiny for apparently having non-existent classes attended primarily by student athletes in its football and basketball program. Apparently, this has been going on since 1997.

A poster on a NC State board - Pack Pride - actually got a hold of a prominent athlete's transcript that showed this guy was nearly risking academic suspension but was 'saved' fortunately by rather high grades in classes that are now suspect.

That athlete - Julius Peppers - now plays in the NFL and was also a basketball standout.

These issues of 'fake' classes and fake grades are also compounded by the rather unusual hiring of a certain Tami Hansbrough - mother of UNC standout Tyler Hansbrough and Notre Dame player Ben Hansbrough - as a fundraiser for the dental school, a position for which she had little experience and was being paid at a higher salary than others in comparable posts. Apparently, she was taking trips to attend games, etc. on the state's (school's) dime and cavorting with her paramour, the chief fundraiser.

The NCAA, as usual, is being shown as rather incompetent in this matter. Other schools would have gotten in a lot of trouble for these issues.

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Response to WilmywoodNCparalegal (Reply #108)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:38 PM

115. it's not as much incompetence as it is a double standard

UNC is a highly respected university and a great basketball history

if it was some podunk school, they would have been hit hard already



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Response to NWHarkness (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:41 AM

33. That's what is spoken in Kenya

funny, I took a course in Swahili through the State Department.

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Response to formercia (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:18 AM

37. So mcrory=birther?

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Response to formercia (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:23 PM

97. I knew a guy who got a job in Africa.

He had a degree in statistics and taught math at Haile Selassie University. Now called Addis Ababa University.


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Response to NWHarkness (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:28 PM

50. Dog Whistle

I caught the same whiff of racism you did from his remark.

Because you and I aren't racists, however, we're not reacting like we're "supposed" to . . .

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Response to cer7711 (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:45 PM

59. Bingo - Swahili = Blacks

And 'gender studies' = feminists and gays

I'm from NC, I speak southern. And he's buddies with Scott Walker. God help us, it's going to be a long four years.

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Response to NCcoast (Reply #59)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:58 PM

95. Exactly.

Those of us who understand the dog whistles down here know exactly what he is doing. It is going to be a long, destructive four years. I shudder to think what condition the state of North Carolina is going to be in after this is over. Republicans do a lot of permanent to extremely long-lived, semi-permanent damage anytime they are in charge. We will still be suffering from his policies for years to come. It takes a lot of work with a fine-toothed comb to undo all the damage a Republican can do in 4 years.

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Response to cer7711 (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 05:39 PM

69. Well, I will

 

react because that is why I keep the focus on the history of the Civil War and the South. African American Studies being attacked by white Southerners at the University of North Carolina is not by accident. The African American community in North Carolina is not paying attention because the attacks are mainly comming from white males like McCrory. I believe you can get a job with the army or State Department if you are an expert on different foreign languages. With the U.S. getting more involved in Africa, that specialty will be unique. You can also teach it at other Universities. North Carolina is becomming more diverse. Romney won by a little over two percent of the vote. McCrory has also pledged to implement voter I.D. laws although the state doesn't have voting serious problems. He also has ties with funding from the Koch brothers. Just like Virginia, the people of North Carolina need to wake up. It will get worse before people wake up to what is going on. My expectations is it will be by the midterm elections before they catch on.

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Response to NWHarkness (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:45 PM

80. Why, because French and Spanish and Japanese and Russian are USEFUL, silly.

Swahili simply isn't.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:28 AM

12. Just another losing strategy for the repugs

Anti-intellectualism and pandering to the mouth breathers of the country is not a winning strategy, but I fully support the Repugs first amendment rights of making fools out of themselves!!!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:49 AM

14. There's a "major disconnect" between Republicans and the American public. nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:51 AM

15. McCrory must think that Gender Studies would inhibit the R War on Women. nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:52 AM

16. Red Neck

He is going to call other people elite, he is just another hypocrite that does like what is being taught. I can only imagine what courses he would want taught. Let us not expand the thinking of American's population but out them back in the box of the 50's.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:04 AM

18. It's going to be a rough 4 years here in NC. eom

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:56 AM

28. yup

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:49 PM

60. Yep... I'll be seeing ya'll in Raleigh

We can all go out for beers after whatever it is we'll be protesting.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:02 PM

62. Yes, it is, especially with Art Pope as the puppetmaster for McCrory.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:15 AM

19. The 'educational elite' are the reason colleges exist, dumbass.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:16 AM

20. The "R" in Repukelican officially stands for RETROGRADE. nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:19 AM

21. Spoken like a true idiot:

"What are we teaching these courses for if they're not going to help get a job?"

Life is all about money, therefore life is all about jobs. Being a person? Making life worth living? Forget about that shit, because money.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:19 AM

22. McCrory is a Puppet run by Art Pope. Pope has attacked UNC Chapel Hill by any means possible

Including a ludicrous attempt to buy influence over the Humanities by endowing a Chair.

Pope owns the Governor along with much of the State Legislature. What McCrory speaks comes form Pope's mouth.

Together they have re-tooled NC state government with cast offs from GW Bush. They appear to be headed towards an 1850 version of North Carolina with all the obvious excuses.

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Response to Ford_Prefect (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:31 AM

25. It's going to get interesting.

McCrory is now a hyper conservative puppet, but a large number of moderate Republicans and Democrats voted for him thinking he was the moderate, pro-business mayor of Charlotte that they remembered from the days of yore. And NC is not all the conservative to start with. There has got to be some blow back form all the overreaches that are beginning to happen.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:37 AM

39. Somehow he managed to portray that image.

The missus remembers him as anything but. Though McCrory won in Mecklenburg, it wasn't by much %-wise. IMO he was going to get the governorship because of too much crap going on with Bev Perdue. Walter Dalton would have been a better governor anyway.

2014 if managed well at the state level and with a bit (whole lot imo) of Obama-style organizing could get the NC House and Senate turned D from R.

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Response to mwooldri (Reply #39)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:02 PM

48. The big problem with that is the re-distiricing that the Rs rammed through.

It is being challenged in court, but I am not sure that the case is going anywhere. I do think that with good organizing and the over-reach that is bound to happen on the part of McCrory and the Rs, we have a good chance in 2014. This is just the start. They want to cut unemployment by a huge margin and eliminate income tax by shifting the burden onto the poor and middle class. At some point, the moderates who voted for this yahoo because he looks preppy and has a nice smile will realize they have been sold a bill of goods and rebel.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #48)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:06 PM

64. I think the moderates woke up when the first thing McCrory did was raise pay for his cabinet

WTF!!!! This guy wants to cut the budget--but not without claiming
his poor appointees can't make it on less than $128,000.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/10/2598132/gov-pat-mccrory-gives-his-cabinet.html

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #48)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 06:01 PM

71. McCrory will

 

have a problem with re-election because redistricting want help you with being Governor. He'll be a one term Governor. He did get a good portion of the African American vote because he was a four term mayor of Charlotte. The corruption of leaders in the Democratic party locally didn't help with image either. He took clear advantage of that. It had nothing to do with the President, but moreso to do with their own material interests. It is why you saw North Carolina became Republican. They associated it with all Democrats. John Edwards is a good example of that image problem also. Mike Easley also ended up the same way as did the Durham prosecutor. The Democrats just need better candidates in North Carolina that are not on the take.

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Response to John2 (Reply #71)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:16 PM

90. He did not carry the Charlotte vote in 2008, also in 2012 he outspent the dem candidate almost 3:1/

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Response to okaawhatever (Reply #90)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:21 PM

94. He also lied about his employment as a lobbyist and refused to make his tax returns public.

In some important ways his campaign was much like that of GW Bush in 2000. Much truth about the candidate and his agenda was hidden from the voting public in both parties. McCrory was presented as the reasonable, clean, "Nice Guy" candidate. All the while he was funded and packaged by Art Pope and ALEC and on a mission to over turn more than 30 years of moderate progress in North Carolina. His campaign denied any suggestions of arch conservative policies and avoided any admission at all that McCrory was employed by the Energy industries as a lobbyist.

His administration has wasted no time at all preparing to return North Carolina to a pre-Civil War plutocracy. They are pushing ALEC's agenda of denying federal authority full steam ahead.

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Response to Ford_Prefect (Reply #94)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:08 PM

96. I just finished reading the new yorker article about Art Pope (who backed McCrory) and by all accoun

got him elected. It showed what else Pope was up to, it's really scary. He got several members of the Wake Co Board of Education elected and now they're reversing a busing policy that the WSJ called one of the best educational move, and so on. He is now budget director under McCrory and is trying to defund most of UNC. It's sickening. Thx for the info, I was born in NC and used to live there. My dad was AF and we returned there when I was 16 and I spent my summers in Fayetteville and Wrightsville Beach.

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Response to Ford_Prefect (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:05 PM

63. LOL. I wrote #62 as I was reading down the thread and then came to your post! +++

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Response to Ford_Prefect (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:34 PM

92. Pope has been friends of the Koch Bros for 25 yrs and now has budget job 4NC. NPR article

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/06/141078608/the-multimillionaire-helping-republicans-win-n-c

That's about Pope and the repub taking over NC state house.

There's also a new yorker article and a website called artpopeexposed.com

http://www.artpopeexposed.com/new_yorker

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Response to okaawhatever (Reply #92)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:46 AM

106. It's really sad.

The grassroots group I am a member of has been trying to warn people about Pope and big money in politics for years. Clearly they have not been paying attention. But they will now. And I don't think they will like what they learn.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #106)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:12 PM

110. Are you in N Carolina? If so, please give me a link to your organization. My brother is in Raleigh

and i'd like to forward it to him. He worked on the Obama campaign in 2008. He's in North Raleigh. You know, I was thinking if word could get out about his politics it might not be too hard to boycott his stores. The very people he's hurting are the people he makes his money off of. Thanks

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Response to okaawhatever (Reply #110)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:16 PM

111. Democracy NC

http://www.democracy-nc.org

Big money out, more voters in!

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #111)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:28 PM

112. Awesome, thanks will forward. nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:28 AM

24. Please note that McCrory was a liberal arts major and Bennet has a Ph.D in philosophy.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:44 PM

54. Not just yer run-o-the-mill philosophy , but Political Phlosphy...

And even he turned that into a job and funded gambling addiction.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:45 PM

55. +1 nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:18 AM

31. "An insightful and educated citizenry is the arch-enemy of tyranny." --T. Jefferson.

So now we know what Gov. McCrory's agenda is.

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Response to lastlib (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:44 PM

47. Jefferson was a polymath...

they'd probably string him up today.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:17 AM

36. So, Mr. Gov. McCrory (Duke-Energy), get this over with in K-12!

The typical UNC system 4 year degree is not narrowly focused on the degree title one graduates with. IMO the first 2 years are wasted with courses that could be taught better at High School. So a student graduates with a degree in "gender studies". OK, what courses did they take to get this degree designation? Did they change degree courses mid-stream, which is far easier to do in the US system vs the UK system. My wife graduated with a Liberal Arts degree, but works as a clinical lab technician because she had a whole lot of chemistry and biology courses under her belt as she did switch courses mid-stream.

Again, the career title doesn't tell all of the story. So if Gov. McCrory (Duke-Energy) wants to make it easier for someone to get a more "traditional" workplace degree course, sharpen up the liberal arts in K-12, get more "Early Colleges" in place, and find some money somewhere to pay for the types of classes that he wants to see people taking.

But then as pointed out above, what has his degree course got to do with working for Duke Energy? Where is his engineering background? oops, seems to be missing.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:28 AM

38. When and where do we

report for re-education?
Sadly, I think it would mainly be made-up of older citizens. "They" have been pretty successful during the last 30 years in abolishing critical thinking skills since reaganism has been introduced.
Thankfully we do have some bright (probably more than I realize) young people who reject the status quo.
They have attempted to thoroughly indoctrinate them into learning only job skills.
I remember many years ago when "they" began requiring drug testing in our local H.S. for kids that were involved in extra-curricular activities or who drove to school. I was one of the very few parents against the policy.
1) it was against the 5th amendment
2) how would they get any kids off of drugs if they could not be exposed to alternatives
3) the list goes on.
"Their" response? "When these young people graduate they will have to be drug tested for employment anyway."
My kids friends thought I was a cool dad, but I just wanted these young people to have rights. I wasn't saying they should get high...

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:03 AM

40. Education makes a people easy to lead,

but difficult to drive; easy to govern but impossible to enslave.
Henry Brougham

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:11 AM

41. "What are we teaching these courses for if they're not going to help get a job?"

NC is doomed.

We used to be known for our education.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #41)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:31 PM

98. Some of my most well loved historical studies

came from the UNC Chapel Hill press.

EDIT to add: I'm sure excellent works are still coming from the UNC Chapel Hill press. I just haven't been keeping up with it.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:16 AM

43. McCrory is an asshole.

To dicks like him, every American institution exists to service business.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:52 AM

44. Every politician

should be made to read and comprehend Cardinal Newman's treatise "The Idea of a University."
http://spectator.org/archives/2010/09/17/the-idea-of-a-university

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Response to The Wizard (Reply #44)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:44 AM

100. The idea of a university

in an oligarchy is a static institution, created to turn out gentlemen able to rule and to maintain a status quo which benefits them. In a democracy a university is a dynamic and revolutionary institution constructed to prepare citizens able to govern themselves. This is why the university as a bastion of conservative values is antithetical to the needs of a modern world, and is why conservative values cannot compete in institutions of higher learning on their merits and so seek political leverage to impose them.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:54 AM

45. There's a vast difference

between education and training. The educated person can adapt to changing circumstances. The trained person can do one thing well, and if that skill is no longer in demand.........

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:43 PM

46. They never blame the reckless bush presidency.

Bush wasted this country's money on reckless wars and the bankster bailout after they totally tanked the economy. So instead they blame the "elite" educators for the problems. Bush was a rare American president who screwed up so badly that he drastically harmed our country. If bush hadn't been president, we'd all be much better off and this endless GOP attack on our educational system would be moot.

Fix the economy, stupid, or STFU McCrory!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:33 PM

51. I'm in the midst of re-reading Richard Hofstadter's

 

Anti-Intellectualism in American Life. First published in 1963 (won Pulitzer in 1964), the book sounds eerily prophetic about this douchenozzle.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:39 PM

52. It is....

I read it in the 60s...should probably follow your example of rereading it.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #52)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:42 PM

53. I keep having these amazing 'Past is prologue' moments while

 

re-reading it. McCrory's sentiments are hardly new or earth-shattering. They've been around in one form or another since the early 20th Century, according to Hofstadter, and are a part of the 'Attack on Modernity' in which anti-intellectualism participates and is implicated.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #53)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:43 PM

65. There has been a thread of anti-intellectualism in our society

since Andrew Jackson, perhaps even earlier.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:50 PM

56. Chris Walker, his Communications Director, is leaving. Hmmm..

RALEIGH -- North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory's communications director says he's leaving the job after only three months in Raleigh because of family concerns.
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=8978947

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:54 PM

57. Talk about dog whistles. Goodness the hate isn't even hidden any longer.

 

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:55 PM

58. The Gov. can't stand that others are much smarter than he is.

Anyone of any intellectual weight of any sort would know the value of higher education and the ability to think and reason.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:50 PM

61. Less taxes for wealthy- business school mantra is preferable to rw

Right wingers would prefer that everyone study business and be brainwashed to believe that less taxes for wealthier creates stronger economy and more jobs. Despite Bush II providing ample evidence to the contrary. Media pundits such as Melissa Francis, conservative Fox business anchor who used to be on CNBC, spout off regulary how business classes they took taught them that taxes must be lowered for economy to improve.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:34 PM

67. Oh yeah, all the edumacation causes trouble.

After all, logical reasoning skills defeat the lies on Faux Noise, and we can't have that.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 06:10 PM

72. keep people ignorant, only have them do what the corporate whores demand of them

without question.

learning about the world makes you see things in a different way and as they are. why keep people ignorant. what if most people in north korea were able to see what the world is really like ?

what if people in this country just read a few more books which might not make them millionaires but make them see things differently ?

would they put up with some of the shit that they do ?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 06:47 PM

74. Ugh.

He was responsible for nearly destroying Charlotte and now he is in charge of North Carolina. He is one dumb ass mofo too. I can't wait until the chance to vote against him comes up again. I wish he had not won. It is still beyond sickening to me that he won.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #74)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:12 PM

89. We tried to warn people but would they listen? Too busy hating on Bev.

Yapping about how corrupt the Democrats were and how McCrory was a sensible centrist. I also blame the Easleys partly for this.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:09 PM

75. I was curious what the response to this one would be

Glad to see it's overwhelmingly an argument against idiots like McCrory.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:15 PM

76. The pro-ignorance lobby is at it again.

What a fucking idiot.

He is dead wrong both in the purpose of education and in denying students their intellectual inheritance as members of humanity. There is a desperate need for humanities in our society. The fact that commercial culture does not recognize it is all the more reason to learn why.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:37 PM

77. The values cult doesn't know squat about the value of anything. You'd think they'd be

embarrassed to reveal how closed minded they are.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:39 PM

78. So, the only purpose for higher education is to train workers in how to

perform tasks in service of our corporate overlords??

Ok. Just so I know where we stand on this.

It really is war. They intend to take us back to pre-Enlightenment times.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:47 PM

81. My asshole governor, Rick Scott, is floating the idea here

that state colleges charge more for liberal arts courses than science or business since he believes liberal arts degrees are useless. Meanwhile my brilliant (but middle aged) husband with a BS in Aerospace Engineering and an MBA can't find a job. These assholes drive me nuts. They in no way value education.

I'm always amazed at how they are constantly pushing for people to get math and science degrees and then if a scientist discovers anything that doesn't conform to their beliefs, its all a big conspiracy because God already told them everything they needed to know in the Bible.

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Response to okwmember (Reply #81)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:31 PM

99. They have the idea that a certain degree will get you a job. Wrong.

And that other majors (liberal arts, fine arts, performing arts) will NOT get you a job.

I got a BA in Biology. No job.
A Doctor of Jurisprudence (law degree) No job.

I shoulda majored in art which is what I really loved.I would have had the same employment prospects as I did getting degrees in stuff I didn't love.


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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:07 PM

82. HuffPo reply by a friend of my daughter...

both of whom went to a public high school here in NC, and both of whom now attend UNC.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/emily-booker/liberal-arts-education-th_b_2585513.html

I see the argument-- North Carolina has faced persistently high unemployment numbers, seen the dissolution of the textile, furniture and other industry, and, like most states around the country, sought a balanced budget involving tough funding choices. After entering college as a political science major, I picked up public relations at UNC's top-ranked School of Journalism and Mass Communication, thinking it would better prepare me for the job market.

However, education is so much more than vocational training and short-term job creation. It's about the development of critical thinking, writing and communication skills that have advanced the innovation of the country for hundreds of years. These abilities are transferrable across all careers and are the foundations of modernism and the 21st century labor market in the United States.

Perhaps the most laughable part of the interview was when McCrory said, "I think some of the educational elite have taken over our education where we are offering courses that have no chance of getting people jobs."

The educational elite have taken over our education? Is there a problem with this I'm not seeing? Is having industry professionals establish curriculum a bad thing?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:10 PM

83. We have descended into a new Dark Age

The more I think about it, that's what we've done: descended into a new, high-tech Dark Age.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:32 PM

84. What is truly sad is

The Chinese are sending their best to our schools in the hopes that they can learn to be fluent in Western Culture, and also to develop the critical thinking skills that their secondary education puts less emphasis on.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #84)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:17 AM

109. The Chinese would agree with McCory

you can bet that those students are here learning hard sciences, engineering or business management.

They are not here specifically to develop critical thinking skills - they are here to learn specific skills the Chinese government wants to expand their economy.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:08 PM

86. But ofcourse there's a Jesse Helms connection. Also interesting to note in his election against Bev

1St Gov Campaign: Lost to Bev Perdue
Perdue raised $5.6 million and ran attack ads against McCrory, criticizing him on various issues. McCrory later referred to these ads as "shameless, inaccurate, and negative", and in the last week of the campaign countered with his own negative ad in which he proudly claimed to have never run a negative ad, moments before attacking his opponent inaccurately.
The McCrory campaign spent $3.4 million and an independent expenditure funded by the Republican Governor's association assisted McCrory with a further $6.2 million in spending on attack ads on McCrory's opponent

2nd Gov Campaign:Won, beat Walter Dalton
During the primary McCrory was criticized for lacking conservative credentials and for the high taxes and large debt in Charlotte while he was Mayor. McCrory countered with negative ads against his foremost opponent, Sen. Fred Smith that inaccurately claimed he ran up state debt in the state legislature.
He raised over 4 million in the 2012 campaign, Dalton the democratic candidate raised a little over 1 million.

From his time as mayor of Charlotte:
By working closely with the help of U.S. Senator Jesse Helms, McCrory made efforts to secure $200 million in federal funds for the city's new Lynx Light Rail system. This plan help expand bus service in Charlotte and brought light rail to the city. Was also appointed to Homeland Security council by George W Bush along with Mitt Romney and Lee Hamilton
He wrote a white paper on educational reform that did not include his current postition

So there you have it. Another Republican who won election by running ads that weren't true and by outfunding his opponents. Once in office, just like all the other tea partiers/gopers he has changed his position to include radical crap no one would have backed. I'm sick of it!!!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:58 PM

93. He really doesn't get the difference between education and job training

And what the universities were originally for.

Corporations should do the job training themselves.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:08 AM

101. The Governor appears to be an ignorant man. nt

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:31 AM

105. as pathetic as that sounds - such attitudes are very common and have a misguided populist appeal

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:15 AM

107. Eat the smart! A rallying cry! n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:18 PM

113. Back to the future...

Looks like we're in a handbasket headed straight for The Rip Van Winkle Years - Part II Electric Boogaloo.

Joy of all possible joys...

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 02:26 PM

114. and McCrory will never "get it" as scientific/objective thinking is not within his capabilities.

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