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Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:24 AM

'American Sniper' author slain in Erath County; suspect arrested

Source: WFAA (DFW area broadcast news station)

Chris Kyle, a former Navy SEAL who became known as the deadliest U.S. sniper, was one of two men murdered on Saturday at a gun range in Erath County.

...Investigators said Routh, a former Marine who is said to suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome, is believed to have turned his weapon on Kyle and the second victim, killing them both at point-blank range.







Read more: http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/rough-creek-189536271.html

81 replies, 9840 views

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Reply 'American Sniper' author slain in Erath County; suspect arrested (Original post)
Justitia Feb 2013 OP
dballance Feb 2013 #1
DakotaLady Feb 2013 #2
CreekDog Feb 2013 #3
wake.up.america Feb 2013 #4
Claybrains Feb 2013 #5
Justitia Feb 2013 #6
Claybrains Feb 2013 #10
Justitia Feb 2013 #13
homerunner Feb 2013 #34
grantcart Feb 2013 #36
1983law Feb 2013 #7
DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #8
eppur_se_muova Feb 2013 #9
SleeplessinSoCal Feb 2013 #20
sylvi Feb 2013 #11
Posteritatis Feb 2013 #16
sylvi Feb 2013 #21
DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #17
Purveyor Feb 2013 #12
SoapBox Feb 2013 #15
Not Me Feb 2013 #39
earthside Feb 2013 #45
rightsideout Feb 2013 #14
ReRe Feb 2013 #18
homerunner Feb 2013 #29
SleeplessinSoCal Feb 2013 #19
bluedigger Feb 2013 #22
Justitia Feb 2013 #23
JI7 Feb 2013 #24
KoKo Feb 2013 #28
homerunner Feb 2013 #31
Ash_F Feb 2013 #38
pasto76 Feb 2013 #41
Ash_F Feb 2013 #42
Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #50
Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #53
NickB79 Feb 2013 #40
earthside Feb 2013 #46
A Little Weird Feb 2013 #49
Nika Feb 2013 #58
Daniel537 Feb 2013 #59
Nika Feb 2013 #60
Daniel537 Feb 2013 #61
Nika Feb 2013 #63
Daniel537 Feb 2013 #64
Blue_Tires Feb 2013 #77
Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #48
Daniel537 Feb 2013 #57
kelliekat44 Feb 2013 #25
kelliekat44 Feb 2013 #26
MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #27
underpants Feb 2013 #51
MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #55
onehandle Feb 2013 #30
jpak Feb 2013 #32
askeptic Feb 2013 #65
Crowman1979 Feb 2013 #33
samsingh Feb 2013 #35
Ash_F Feb 2013 #37
amuse bouche Feb 2013 #43
underpants Feb 2013 #44
donco Feb 2013 #47
uppityperson Feb 2013 #52
Dems to Win Feb 2013 #54
deven8703 Feb 2013 #70
Daniel537 Feb 2013 #56
Dems to Win Feb 2013 #62
Tom Ripley Feb 2013 #66
Amaya Feb 2013 #67
davidthegnome Feb 2013 #72
sendero Feb 2013 #78
davidthegnome Feb 2013 #80
sendero Feb 2013 #81
BellaLuna Feb 2013 #68
deven8703 Feb 2013 #69
another_liberal Feb 2013 #71
Justitia Feb 2013 #73
another_liberal Feb 2013 #74
smknz Feb 2013 #75
RobinA Feb 2013 #76
Blandocyte Feb 2013 #79

Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:34 AM

1. That is Sad in so Many Ways - Not Just for the Two Killed...

and their families but also for the former serviceman that was allegedly suffering from PTSD and allegedly went berserk and killed those people. It's sad for his family and him too.

I'll be interested to see updates on this.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:36 AM

2. Just horrible ...

I have no other words.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:38 AM

3. this is so sad and illustrates that more guns did not make that situation safer

it's never been logical to me that more instruments of killing would equal less killing, not with human nature as it frequently is.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:43 AM

4. As mentioned above, tragic for all.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:44 AM

5. Devastating. k&r

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:46 AM

6. more details on incident & parties involved.....

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/02/4595767/top-navy-seal-sniper-killed-on.html

The article says the sheriff's dept wasn't called until almost 3 hrs later???
Can that be right?

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Response to Justitia (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:04 AM

10. I was only able to read a portion of the article. Ugh.

The comments that followed were heading down the rabbit hole. Assassination?!?

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Response to Claybrains (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:40 AM

13. Yeah, the comments are straight outta Crazytown

In fact, I picked this article over another because the comments on that one were mind-blowingly INSANE.

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Response to Justitia (Reply #13)


Response to homerunner (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:14 AM

36. welcome to DU

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:49 AM

7. Deeply sad development

 

Just heartbreaking.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:52 AM

8. If only someone at the gun range had a gun, and there'd been armed guards posted at the gun range...

Mr. LaPierre, am I doing this right?

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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:55 AM

9. Perfect. nt

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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:59 AM

20. You watch. This will turn into a conspiracy. That's the go-to position of the NRA.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:16 AM

11. Taking someone with severe PTSD to a gun range

 

Something just doesn't feel right here. Kyle had worked with PTSD sufferers before. Why would he do that?

A terrible tragedy, in any event.

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Response to sylvi (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:12 AM

16. The article doesn't say he brought the shooter to the range, just that they were both there. (nt)

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:11 AM

21. I was going by

 

I was going by this paragraph from Justitia's link:

"WFAA/Channel 8 quoted unnamed sources as saying that Kyle of Midlothian and a neighbor had taken Routh on an outing to help him deal with post-traumatic stress disorder. Routh turned on the men and shot them in the back, the report added."

Of course these "breaking" stories always seem to change several times.

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Response to sylvi (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:43 AM

17. If he brought Routh to the range, then it was a tragic lapse in judgement.

His heart was in the right place, his brain was not. Probably wanted to connect with the guy on familiar and comfortable ground, but considering sudden loud noises tend to make military PTSD suffers rather jumpy and agitated...

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:35 AM

12. Live by the sword, die by the sword... eom

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:48 AM

15. + 1

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:04 AM

39. +2

It's tragic that he chose to go down this path with his life...but I find it hard to shed a tear.

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:33 AM

45. It is a karmic truth.

Tragedy, of course, when anyone gets killed.

What I have found disturbing is the glorification of snipers in recent years ... shows on the History Channel and such ... bumper stickers lauding snipers etc.

The 'sniper' in my estimation is one of the more ugly, horrible aspects of warfare.

Everyone of the 'enemy' that this fellow killed had a mother and father, sister or brother, nieces, nephews ... and undoubtedly the 'enemy' thought they were patriots or doing god's will in their own way. A sniper kills invisibly -- it is a gruesome deed -- even if it maybe arguably an integral part of a ground war.



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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:45 AM

14. Yea it's sad but bullets don't discriminate

Whether you are a war hero, child or street thug. Bullets don't discriminate.

There's just way too much violent gun death in this country. It's abnormal and sick. The Second Amendment sucks.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:44 AM

18. Perfect example of the addage...

..."live by the sword, die by the sword." And another one just popped into my mind:
"You can take the man out of the war, but you can't take the war out of the man." So sad. They all lived thru the wars, but two of them ended up shot at close range at a resort shooting range in the USA by a fellow comrade. You can not make this stuff up. Truth truly is stranger than fiction...
Strength to all their families as they try to cope with this tragic incident.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #18)


Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:57 AM

19. Went on a Google hunt re: the shooter and found some really nasty blogs and sites.

The right most definitely dominates the internets.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:40 AM

22. I guess counseling just wasn't his calling.

It seemed like such a natural transition, too.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:43 AM

23. video of Chris Kyle 2 wks ago at gun show

It looks like his current business (in addition to books & appearances) is the mercenary business.

Heads up, he is NOT a fan of the President or his proposals.

He said in a different interview, in fact, that Obama didn't really order the strike against Bin Laden & the Pentagon was keeping that secret
Make of that what you will.

Two wks after this video, he was fatally shot by a fellow servicemember at point blank range at a gun range here in TX.

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Response to Justitia (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:46 AM

24. Check out the comments , what a bunch of crazies, saying Obama is behind this

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Response to Justitia (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:53 AM

28. A photo of him from the Second Battle of Fallujah in Iraq

255 confirmed kills: Meet Navy SEAL Chris Kyle... the deadliest sniper in US history

Served four tours of duty in Iraq, where he gained the nickname 'The Devil of Ramadi' from insurgents

By Michael Zennie
UPDATED: 08:43 EST, 3 January 2012

Chris Kyle hesitated the first time he killed a person at long range with a rifle. It was a woman who was about to attack a group of US Marines with a hand grenade.

The US Navy SEAL was overlooking an Iraqi town from a shabby building as US forces were still invading the country, before Saddam Hussein had been ousted. The Marines didn't see the woman coming.

'Take a shot,' Mr Kyle's chief told him.

Mr Kyle stammered: 'But...'

'Shoot!' the chief told him again.



Making the shot: Chris Kyle takes aim from on top of an overturned crib during the Second Battle of Fallujah

Four tours: During his time in Iraq, he gained infamy among the insurgents, who nicknamed him 'the Devil of Ramadi' and put a $20,000 price on his head

When Mr Kyle finally pulled the trigger, the woman dropped the grenade. He shot her again as it exploded.

But after four deployments to Iraq, he learned to stop hesitating and start shooting straight.

With 255 kills, 160 of them officially confirmed by the Pentagon, the retired Navy Seal sniper is the deadliest marksman in US military history.
During the Second Battle of Fallujah alone, when US Marines fought running battles in the streets with several thousand insurgents, he killed 40 people.

His feat blows away the previous American record of 109, set by Army Staff Sgt. Adelbert F. Waldron during the Vietnam war.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2081430/255-confirmed-kills-Meet-Navy-SEAL-Chris-Kyle--deadliest-sniper-US-history.html#ixzz2Jq630bsH
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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Response to KoKo (Reply #28)


Response to homerunner (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:53 AM

38. And the number of kills probably has more to do with Iraqi's inability to fight back

...in an organized manner, compared to previous wars.

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #38)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:15 AM

41. oh my god are you completely out of your scope here

"the iraqi's inability to fight back in an organized manner"


wait, have you ever set foot in Iraq? didnt think so. You're wild speculation stinks with bias and arrogance. You hvae no idea what iraq is like, what combat is like, and you SURE AS HELL dont have any idea how 'unorganized'. So unorganized they killed 4000 of MY troops.


one of the indicators of being an adult is not giving in to a compulsion to spew about everything. you should start applying that about anything war or military related.

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #41)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:17 AM

42. Thanks for sharing your "scope" /nt

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #41)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:48 PM

50. The Iraqis killed 4,000 of YOUR troops? You should have put them someplace safer.

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #41)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:54 PM

53. "Your Troops" wow major ego here...

As a vet, I just find that wild. As if you got some sort of lock on Patriotism.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #28)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:14 AM

40. There is something horribly wrong with that picture

Using an overturned baby's crib as a rest with which to shoot people, even in combat, seems so horribly wrong symbolically.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #28)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:37 AM

46. How many innocents did he kill?

We will never know.

Snipers are not heroes.

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Response to earthside (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:40 PM

49. Snipers

It seems to me that a sniper is less likely to kill innocent bystanders than many other units. Bombs, drones, or even ground troops going door-to-door seem like they are far more likely to kill noncombatants. In any case, I think it's a bad idea to glorify anyone who kills for a living but I don't see a sniper as being worse.

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Response to earthside (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:32 PM

58. I doubt he was indiscrimanant in doing his job in the service.

Seals are highly trained, and above average in their maturity and thinking ability.

It is a sad day to see one of these men die like this. Rest in peace, brother.

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Response to Nika (Reply #58)


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #59)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:41 PM

60. Thanks, I'll look for this incident to check out what exactly happened.

I worked with SOCOM (Special Operations Command) when in the Army and knew good Special Forces men and shaky ones. So I'll respect your opinion here, but would have to read about this incident before being able to concur with you in your judgment. Thanks for the response.

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Response to Nika (Reply #60)


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #61)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:53 PM

63. I've seen Special Forces men fight then make up, much like any other brothers would do in a family.

So my first instinct with these to former Seals would always be to take talk of a fight between the two with a grain of salt.

Just to give you a deeper perspective on how my opinion forms on this at first impressing upon hearing about it. In any event, thanks, and nice to get your input.

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Response to Nika (Reply #63)


Response to KoKo (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:42 AM

77. I know it's neither here nor there, but...

I'm betting dollars to yen that the Vietnam-era snipers had a much higher "value per target" than the ones who served in Iraq...

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Response to Justitia (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 12:25 PM

48. By by loudmouthed asshole (Kyle).

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Response to Justitia (Reply #23)


Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:10 AM

25. Anyone hit the "irony" button yet? There is more to this story than we know right now.

Blaming PTSS alone bears suspicion.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:15 AM

26. Is it me, or did he contradict himself at least six times in the first minute of this interview? nt

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:38 AM

27. Brilliant. They were dealing with PTSD by going shooting.

Unbelievable.

As my dad says, "why do they call it *common* sense? It's anything *but* common?"

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 01:10 PM

51. I could have sworn that I read that in the first NYT article that I found

see I had no idea who Chris Kyle was.

I went back to find it but the mention that they were helping somone out by going to a gun range was not there.

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Response to underpants (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:21 PM

55. That was in at least one news report linked to

Last edited Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:25 PM - Edit history (1)

in this thread. A video, I think.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:58 AM

30. Gun culture is aberrant to start with. Throw in PTSD to the situation and here are the results. nt

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:07 AM

32. Gun CULTure

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:58 PM

65. WAR Culture is the breeder...

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:27 AM

33. People who oppose background checks for mental illness...

...are more than likely mentally ill themselves.

*cough* ALEX JONES *cough*

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:54 AM

35. very sad. btw he was well armed so that fing argument didn't save him

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 10:49 AM

37. I was at a shooting range in the Dallas area at the same time as this.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:22 AM

43. A horrible but not surprisng tragedy

So which one was the good guy with a gun?

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:29 AM

44. As always, may the odds be in your favor

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 11:54 AM

47. Why does this

guns n roses song(Welcome To The Jungle ) keep popping up in the ole noggen?




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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:51 PM

52. What a shame. eom

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 02:59 PM

54. Gun-love and common sense cannot co-exist in the human brain

PTSD sufferers should not be taken to Shooting ranges!!! to 'help' them.

Sad tragedy. I just have to shake my head, 'What were they thinking?'

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Response to Dems to Win (Reply #54)


Response to Justitia (Original post)


Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 03:49 PM

62. Things you never hear people say: "I had a forty year career taking PTSD sufferers to the shooting

range for counseling."


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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:05 PM

66. He died doing what he loved...fondling a gun

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:31 PM

67. The irony

My opinion, not that it matters, is that he voluntarily murdered people for a living... military or non military, murder is murder... at least to me.
I am a firm believer in karma. He made his karma.

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Response to Amaya (Reply #67)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:31 PM

72. That's one way to look at it

I remember several years ago, when I was a boy of 17, I made the comment to my best friend that, "Soldiers are killers who get paid for it." I look back on that today and think of it as ridiculously ignorant. His Father had served in Vietnam, both of my Grandfathers had served during World War II. My Father's Father saw combat against the Japanese in Okajima (SP?) and from all accounts it was a brutal hell on earth.

I think one question to ask ourselves, is why people sign up for military service in the first place. There is no longer a draft, so for the most part those serving are doing so because they wanted to. Do you think they sign up to get a taste of combat? For the rush of adrenaline and the thrill of battle? Perhaps, it could be wondered, are they there for the sadistic purpose of killing their fellow human beings in such a situation that it is rewarded rather than punished?

There are many thoughts, for and against. Primarily, it is my belief that our armed service members generally serve out of what they feel is a deep obligation to their Country and their families. It's not that the idea of combat thrills them, that they WANT to run around getting shot at... more, it is that they don't want others to have to. They don't want to face a future in which we might become a deeply oppressed Nation under the rule of tyrants. They want their children to be able say they grew up in a land of opportunity, of freedom and safety.

Is it immoral to defend one's own life? Is it murder to shoot an enemy combatant, who, if circumstances were reversed, would gladly pull the trigger on you? I guess we could go around in circles with that question for quite some time. The fact of the matter is that humanity in general is no where near evolved enough (socially) to do away with war. Until that becomes the case (which I believe it inevitably will, at some point in the future) it is both necessary and right to be prepared to protect what we have. Even if, at times, it requires acts of violence and war.

If a sniper had killed Hitler during the height of World War II, people all over the world would today praise him and call him a hero.

I'm not inclined to (nor am I knowledgeable enough to) judge the moral character of the man killed here. What I will say though, is that if not for him, it might have been you or I doing the sniping.

I have a deep respect and gratitude for those that risk their lives and their futures so that I (and many others) may not have to. For them to kill in service of their Country may be murder to you, but to me, in the vast majority of cases (though not all) it is a demonstration of how much they will sacrifice for their Nation. Their innocence, their minds, their futures with family and friends, their homes.

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Response to davidthegnome (Reply #72)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:05 PM

78. The vast vast VAST majority...

.. of people killed in our invasion of Iraq weren't a danger to anyone. If you want to talk about just wars, well fine - we haven't engaged in one of those since 1945 and that is a FACT.

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Response to sendero (Reply #78)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:16 AM

80. I don't disagree

However, fighting in an unjust war does not make a soldier unjust. It is not the soldier who decides to begin a conflict, but politicians, generally for politically and financially motivated reasons. The point I was trying to make isn't that any particular war is just. I am simply attempting to shed light on the fact that most soldiers fight for the right reasons. There is a difference between murder and acts of war, I have heard too many horror stories from friends returning from Iraq to simply dismiss them. No, the war is not just, yet it is not either, unjust for a soldier to do what he or she must to survive it.

I don't approve of the war in Afghanistan, I didn't approve of the Iraq war. I do though, have a lot of respect for the soldiers risking their lives in these conflicts.

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Response to davidthegnome (Reply #80)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 08:03 PM

81. I do not..

... (generally) blame the soldiers for these wars. I DO blame the military leadership, who are always willing to commit the blood of others in quests that are unlikely to succeed for reasons I'm pretty sure are not altruistic.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 04:57 PM

68. It's threads like this that define hypocrisy to the maximum

Any of you gloating at this has no business using the 'loss of life' in the gun debate. You're pathetic in using this tragedy to say 'I told you so'.

You are no better than those you claim are wrong on this issue and it shows it's more political issue to you than a human one.

If you truly believe what you say about gun violence your first reaction will be to mourn yet another death, not use it to post some snarky garbage like an arrogant POS.


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Response to BellaLuna (Reply #68)


Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 07:19 PM

71. Earlier today . . .

Earlier today I posted an article dealing with this same sad story. This was done without having seen your post of yesterday and in the assumption that the story had just broken.

I did not mean to copy your work in any way. If you feel I detracted from your earlier post by my action, I hope you will accept my apology.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #71)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:38 PM

73. Oh no, of course not! I wish my OP had a better title.

I saw the online news reports yesterday and posted the article that had the most info at the time.
Because of LBN rules, I had to post the headline "as-is".
There have been better article titles since mine, I just posted what was best / first available.

It is a very weird / disturbing story, the more details out there the better.

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Response to Justitia (Reply #73)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 08:50 PM

74. Thanks . . .

Thanks, Justitia. I found the side story about Jesse Ventura's law suit weird indeed, not to mention the whole idea of seeking out a troubled vet while he's on a shooting range? It's sad, tragic and weird.

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:31 PM

75. Reap what you sow.

A man with bragging rights to over 160 kills dies by gunfire. Maybe their is a god.

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Response to smknz (Reply #75)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 08:31 AM

76. I Suspect

that Mr. Kyle was just as much a victim of the military brainwashing culture as anyone else who is successful in that field. He seems to have started out knowing what he was doing was wrong, but "got over it."

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Response to Justitia (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 01:25 PM

79. RIP, Sailor. Fair winds and following seas.

He had the courage and love of country to face the horror of war and the compassion to set up an organization for other vets who were having trouble with PTSD.



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