Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:27 PM
michigandem58 (1,044 posts)
Armed officer working at middle school disarmed suspect, says chief (Atlanta)
Source: CBS News
Atlanta's police chief says an armed officer working at a city middle school where a student was shot was able to disarm the suspect, also a student, moments after the shooting.
Authorities say a 14-year-old boy was shot in the back of the neck Thursday at Price Middle School and his injury does not appear to be life-threatening. The suspect was taken into custody.
Chief George Turner says multiple shots were fired, and only the 14-year-old was wounded. After some initial confusion about the nature of a teacher's injuries, officials now say the teacher received minor cuts in the aftermath of the shooting...
Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57567018-504083/atlanta-school-shooting-update-armed-officer-working-at-middle-school-disarmed-suspect-says-chief/
12 replies, 2597 views
Armed officer working at middle school disarmed suspect, says chief (Atlanta) (Original post)
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Response to hack89 (Reply #5)
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:03 PM
Squinch (16,623 posts)
6. If it was a criminal, the criminal must have gotten it by either purchasing it from
someone who was not a dealer, and therefore wasn't background checked,
OR the criminal stole it from yet another responsible gun owner who had not secured his gun well enough to keep it out of criminals' hands.
Response to hack89 (Reply #7)
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:10 PM
Squinch (16,623 posts)
8. Hey! We're agreeing!
Now what do you think about penalties for gun owners if their guns are used in commission of a crime? (I know it's not in any of the proposed legislation, but I think it's the answer the answer to guns that are not properly secured.)
Response to Squinch (Reply #8)
Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:34 PM
hack89 (35,970 posts)
9. Stolen guns represent maybe 10 - 15% of criminal's guns
strawman purchases are a big source as well as dirty firearms dealers. You would get better results focusing the ATF on gun dealers and illegal guntrafficking.
.Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.
In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.
The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.
According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity."
Response to hack89 (Reply #9)
Sat Feb 2, 2013, 08:14 PM
Squinch (16,623 posts)
12. But again here, I think we have points of agreement:
When I say "make the gun owner accountable for crimes committed with his gun" the straw purchasers would be included. To do this, it would require some kind of registration or point of sale record. If the gun is then used in a crime, the person who is listed as owner on the point of sale record is responsible, unless that person can provide some agreed upon acceptable record that he sold it. Then that next person is responsible. Unless they have the proof of sale, and so on.
I know this is a very undeveloped idea, but I don't see why it would be too difficult to work out penalties, acceptable proofs of sale, etc. With a practice like this, no one in their right mind would be a straw purchaser for someone else. If they were, they'd pay a stiff price for doing it.
Concievably, you could even apply it to the corrupt gun dealers. They take a shipment of guns for sale, that means they are the owners of record. They receive the proof of sale document from the manufacturer. If there is a legitimate robbery of their guns and they report it, no problem, no charges against them. At least we have a record of which guns are lost. If it is a sale to traffickers and they don't report it, and the guns are subsequently used in a crime, the dealer is prosecuted. Especially if the same dealer keeps losing guns that are subsequently used in crimes. We'd know who they were.
Really, as I've said before on these threads, I don't care if you have a gun. I just want better guarantees that I won't run into it in the hands of a criminal.
Response to michigandem58 (Original post)
Response to Post removed (Reply #10)
Fri Feb 1, 2013, 05:40 AM
harmonicon (12,008 posts)
11. You can copypasta shitloads of stuff into this thread, but you can't bring yourself to...
write out "before"?
Just copying the same long list of shit in various places isn't discussion. It's just spamming or trolling. Please stop.