HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » Vegetarian Diet Cuts Hear...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:44 PM

Vegetarian Diet Cuts Heart Risk by 32%, Study Says

Source: Bloomberg

Vegetarians were 32 percent less likely to be hospitalized or die from heart disease than people who ate meat and fish, scientists at England’s Oxford University reported.

The researchers followed almost 45,000 adults, one-third of them vegetarians, for an average of 11 1/2 years and accounted for factors such as their age, whether they smoked, alcohol consumption, physical activity, education and socio-economic background, according to the study published today in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

“Probably most of the difference is accounted for by the fact that the vegetarians had lower cholesterol and lower blood pressure,” Francesca Crowe, one of the authors of the study and a nutritional epidemiologist at Oxford, said in a telephone interview. “Diet is an important determinant of heart disease.”

.......

The Oxford study reinforces previous research that has concluded a healthy diet can reduce heart disease by lowering cholesterol, blood pressure and the risk of diabetes. Another study of more than 31,000 people who had been diagnosed with cardiovascular disease or diabetes, published in the journal Circulation in December, found that those who ate a diet that favored fish, vegetables, fruit, beans and nuts over meats and eggs were 35 percent less likely to die from cardiovascular disease.

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-30/vegetarian-diet-cuts-heart-risk-by-32-study-says.html

81 replies, 9505 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 81 replies Author Time Post
Reply Vegetarian Diet Cuts Heart Risk by 32%, Study Says (Original post)
Redfairen Jan 2013 OP
onehandle Jan 2013 #1
TheDebbieDee Jan 2013 #51
Crowman1979 Jan 2013 #2
chervilant Jan 2013 #3
bitchkitty Feb 2013 #60
chervilant Feb 2013 #74
tblue Jan 2013 #4
pscot Jan 2013 #5
RebelOne Jan 2013 #20
Doremus Jan 2013 #25
FunkyLeprechaun Jan 2013 #6
srican69 Jan 2013 #9
pangaia Jan 2013 #16
WestCoastLib Jan 2013 #19
Doremus Jan 2013 #26
pangaia Jan 2013 #35
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #32
pangaia Jan 2013 #33
Arugula Latte Jan 2013 #50
bitchkitty Feb 2013 #61
dbackjon Feb 2013 #79
bitchkitty Feb 2013 #80
Babel_17 Jan 2013 #24
RebelOne Feb 2013 #65
Babel_17 Feb 2013 #81
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #31
pangaia Jan 2013 #34
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #44
srican69 Jan 2013 #7
Doremus Jan 2013 #27
kwassa Jan 2013 #40
Doremus Jan 2013 #53
kwassa Jan 2013 #55
RebelOne Feb 2013 #66
Zoeisright Feb 2013 #76
Scout Feb 2013 #68
FBaggins Jan 2013 #8
frazzled Jan 2013 #10
slackmaster Jan 2013 #13
dmallind Jan 2013 #18
RILib Jan 2013 #23
snort Jan 2013 #11
Viva_La_Revolution Jan 2013 #12
dogman Jan 2013 #14
whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #15
customerserviceguy Jan 2013 #30
mzteris Jan 2013 #37
customerserviceguy Jan 2013 #38
mzteris Jan 2013 #39
customerserviceguy Jan 2013 #42
pangaia Jan 2013 #17
sweetapogee Jan 2013 #21
Babel_17 Jan 2013 #22
thereismore Jan 2013 #28
roody Jan 2013 #29
Capobvious Jan 2013 #36
kwassa Jan 2013 #41
nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #72
kwassa Feb 2013 #75
AngryAmish Jan 2013 #43
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #45
Scout Jan 2013 #54
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #58
Scout Feb 2013 #59
yewberry Feb 2013 #62
Scout Feb 2013 #67
yewberry Feb 2013 #69
Scout Feb 2013 #70
nick of time Jan 2013 #46
slackmaster Jan 2013 #47
leftyladyfrommo Jan 2013 #48
bitchkitty Jan 2013 #49
justa guy Jan 2013 #52
dbackjon Jan 2013 #56
dbackjon Jan 2013 #57
laundry_queen Feb 2013 #77
dbackjon Feb 2013 #78
Evasporque Feb 2013 #63
graywarrior Feb 2013 #64
Beacool Feb 2013 #71
FarCenter Feb 2013 #73

Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:46 PM

1. Not the first study to confirm this.

Meat is self-murder.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onehandle (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:40 AM

51. Yes, but Mythbusters confirms that vegetarian farts smell worse!

Vegetarians release more methane into the atmosphere..........Yes, cows, I'm looking in your direction!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:48 PM

2. File this under: obvious!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:50 PM

3. I will mark my one year anniversary as a Vegan at

the end of February. I am thrilled to eat delicious food and feel so healthy!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to chervilant (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 11:17 AM

60. Congratulations!

I love vegans! They're my favorite species!

Kind people are THE BEST!!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bitchkitty (Reply #60)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 05:50 PM

74. Thank you, so much!

I just made Vegan shortbread and banana nut bread for my neighbor, a retired artist who lets me use her washer and dryer (although, we hung our sheets out on the clothes line today--it was so warm!).

I read through the comments herein below. I found during my research that many more doctors are embracing plant-based diets and are promoting a Vegan lifestyle, with regular physical activity. I am not surprised either by the negative comments about Veganism. I had similar misconceptions before I started eating as a Vegan.

I am thrilled to be getting physically fit! And I do NOT miss the animal products that made me feel loggy and constipated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:54 PM

4. 10 year veg here!

Happy and feeling great! I don't miss dead flesh at all. Makes me sad to think of a critter losing its life so I can eat a meal I'll forget about in half an hour.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:59 PM

5. So if your blood pressure and cholesterol are normal

it probably makes no difference what you eat.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pscot (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:53 PM

20. I am a vegetarian, but my blood pressure and cholesterol are high.

I take medication. My doctor said that he blames it on genetics because both my mother and father had high blood pressure and high cholesterol, as well as all my relatives on my mother's side. I am thankful that I became a vegetarian 15 years ago because I could be dead by now. I just turned 74 years old and hope to make it to 84.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RebelOne (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 06:35 PM

25. Dairy has lots of fat.

Cheese, milk, eggs ... they're all very high in fat and cholesterol.

I was a vegetarian until a year ago, when I gave up dairy too. My total cholesterol dropped from 170 to 120. I lost 50 pounds, my pre-diabetes went away and my slightly elevated blood pressure is back to normal.

Dairy is also extremely inflammatory and causes many other illnesses besides heart disease.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:01 PM

6. That's weird

I have heard of studies that counter this. Anaemic symptoms are prevalent in vegetarianism. I've had former vegan/vegetarian friends whose health got worse in the long run and were told by their doctors to eat meat.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:05 PM

9. see my post #7

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:19 PM

16. Don't EVER listen to doctors when it comes to diet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pangaia (Reply #16)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:59 PM

19. Don't EVER listen to people telling you not to listen to doctors

Yes, medical science is not perfect.
Yes, different doctors believe in different methods.
Yes, some things that are right for most people can be of no benefit to you individually, or even detrimental.

But, your doctor is better informed than you and there to help.

Listen to your doctor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WestCoastLib (Reply #19)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 06:40 PM

26. Most MDs have zero nutrition instruction.

My own physician, for instance, asked me where do I get my protein from (I don't eat meat or dairy).

Yet he has a fancy office and bills $200/visit.

We must be our own patient advocate and always double-check our health providers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doremus (Reply #26)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:57 PM

35. I agree 100%.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WestCoastLib (Reply #19)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:28 PM

32. MDs and vets have almost zero nutrition education

I would never listen to either concerning diet. They are NOT experts at all in this area.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WestCoastLib (Reply #19)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:44 PM

33. I must disagree with your last two sentences.

Neither my PCP nor my 2 oncologists are better informed than I am about diet.
Not even close.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WestCoastLib (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:12 AM

50. I don't think they teach much about nutrition in regular medical school.

Maybe trust someone who has a medical specialty in nutrition and so on, but not necessarily a run-of-the-mill family doctor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WestCoastLib (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 11:20 AM

61. My doctor is not better informed than me

when it comes to nutrition. He's not better informed on a lot of things, come to think of it. In fact, he's been rather useless these past few years. He's very good at billing me, though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bitchkitty (Reply #61)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:29 AM

79. then it is your fault for sticking with said useless doctor

Find a new one. Stop bitching about your old one. If you keep using him, then you are supporting his worthlessnees.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dbackjon (Reply #79)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:35 AM

80. I wish it were that easy.

I take it you've never been disabled and on Medicare? Amazing that you feel qualified to pass judgement on my medical situation/doctor problems and you don't even know my real name. Are you related to that Frist guy?

In any case, for my condition any doctor would be useless. There are some new drugs coming down the pike, so we'll see. Maybe in a couple of years...

Have a really great day being an asshole, sweetie pie!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 06:26 PM

24. Vitamin B-12

It's pretty much a given that an otherwise pure vegan/vegetarian will want to take that vitamin in some form.

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/20030618/vegetarian-diet-b12-deficiency

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12

Huh, I double checked my link and now it seems there is one, sort of rare, vegan source for B12.

"only fresh sea algea such as Susabi-nori (Porphyra yezoensis) have been reported to demonstrate vitamin B12 activity in B12 deficient rats"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Babel_17 (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:55 PM

65. I am a vegetarian and take B-12 every day

because I know I need the protein. I also take Biotin, Vitamin E and Calcium. I take the Vitamin E because I would get cramps in my legs at night. The Vitamin E has worked wonders. No more leg cramps.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Babel_17 (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:45 PM

81. Huh, I found some food for thought

Long story short: I was googling "Hydrilla", which is in a supplement powder I drink, and eventually I found myself in a vegetarian forum with lots to read.

http://www.veganforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?22-B12-in-plants

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:27 PM

31. Two things here

1. Doctors don't always know what they're talking about, ESPECIALLY when it concerns nutrition. Same with vets.

2. Vegans and vegetarians who are unhealthy are "junk food veggies" or "simplecarbotarians."

It is not at all difficult to eat a balanced and nutritious diet as a vegan or vegetarian.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #31)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:56 PM

34. Good point.

They are also probably what I call 'white food" eaters. Simple starches- pasta, potatoes, most bread, etc..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pangaia (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:00 AM

44. Just like with meat eaters, it's the "easy" way to eat

It's easier to eat unhealthy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:01 PM

7. lifelong Veg here ...


so were my parents and my grand parents ...

but I lost 3 of my grand parents to heart disease !!! I suffer from high cholesterol and BP ...

Bottom line - your genes matter much more than your diet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to srican69 (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 06:43 PM

27. Nope.

Junk food vegans are just as unhealthy as their meat-eating counterparts.

Fats from oils clog the arteries just as effectively as fats from meat and dairy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doremus (Reply #27)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:31 PM

40. This isn't true.

The human liver converts saturated fats to cholesterol, which come from animals, animal byproducts such as whole milk products, and some tropical vegetable oils. That is it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kwassa (Reply #40)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:47 PM

53. Nope. Far more complicated than that.

That's the thing about food. The way its myriad of molecules interacts with our bodies is far more complicated than "olive oil is manna from heaven" because Mediterraneans have a lower incidence of heart disease, or "fish oil cures everything" because some study paid for by Salmon Growers R Us says so.

Oils tend to be inflammatory in our bodies, meaning they can aggravate the insides of our veins and arteries. Over time, the little ulcers that develop form scabs (blood clots) which can lead to heart attacks when pieces of plaque get caught and stop the flow of blood.

The whole topic of food and how it interacts with our bodies is far more complicated than sound bites like cholesterol=bad, oil=good. But most things tend to be that way and we're well-served to keep that in mind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doremus (Reply #53)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:58 PM

55. Where is your proof that oil is inflammatory?

This I would like to see.

Edit to add:

Olive Oil Contains Natural Anti-Inflammatory Agent
Science Daily

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/09/050906075427.htm

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) as an anti-inflammatory: an alternative to nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs for discogenic pain.

National Institutes of Health
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16531187

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doremus (Reply #27)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:01 PM

66. You are so totally wrong.

I am not a junk food vegetarian. After my doctor diagnosed me with high blood pressure, high cholesterol and pre-diabetic, he reviewed my family medical history and said that I could blame my genes. My mother, all of her sisters and brothers and my grandmother had high blood pressure and diabetes. All the women lived into well their 80s despite my other ailments. But my mother died at 78 because of cancer. I am 74 and will live to at least 80.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doremus (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 12:45 AM

76. Sorry, the "fats cause heart disease" theory is wrong.

That theory was started in the 1960s with bad science. Trans fats and sugar are the culprits. Here's why I know: heart disease was very rare in this country until processed foods, especially trans fats, were introduced into the American diet.

http://experiencelife.com/article/a-big-fat-mistake/

"Several studies have shown that total blood cholesterol is not a reliable indicator of CVD risk, says Ron Hunninghake, MD, chief medical officer of the Riordan Clinic in Wichita, Kan., the largest nonprofit nutritional medical center in the United States. “That’s because half of the people who suffer a heart attack have normal cholesterol levels.”

Inflammation is the cause. Smoking, eating lots of sugar and refined carbs, trans fats, and genes cause heart disease. Abuse may even play a part. If you had a bad childhood, odds are you'll develop heart disease as an adult.

I have a double degree in biology and food science.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to srican69 (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:08 PM

68. "Bottom line - your genes matter much more than your diet."

as with many things, the genes rule.

i see it in my family. mom and dad been cooking/eating together for over 65 years (they are in their late 80s) and mom is diabetic and struggled with her weight, but has great cholesterol. Dad has never been fat, is not diabetic, but his cholesterol is very high. they eat approximately the same foods cooked the same way ... how can this be?

i take after my mom's side.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:02 PM

8. Makes sense... cholesterol is found in animal products

Sure... most cholesterol is produced by the body itself, but not all of it. Vegetarians almost necessarily consumer little of the stuff.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:06 PM

10. Yes, but no difference in mortality rates for other diseases (NIH)

It is also interesting to note several things in this combined study from the National Institute of Health (at least interesting to me):

Those who ate fish but no meat actually had a greater reduction in heart disease (34%), and the same as for lacto-ovo vegetarians, than those categorized as vegans (26%). (I've been trying to get my vegetarian kids to add fish to their diets, with of course no success.)
That the lower mortality rate from ischemic heart disease among vegetarians was greater at younger ages. (This explains to me why my heavily meat-eating 96-year-old father needn't go veggie.)

Mortality in vegetarians and nonvegetarians: detailed findings from a collaborative analysis of 5 prospective studies.

Abstract
We combined data from 5 prospective studies to compare the death rates from common diseases of vegetarians with those of nonvegetarians with similar lifestyles. A summary of these results was reported previously; we report here more details of the findings. Data for 76172 men and women were available. Vegetarians were those who did not eat any meat or fish (n = 27808). Death rate ratios at ages 16-89 y were calculated by Poisson regression and all results were adjusted for age, sex, and smoking status. A random-effects model was used to calculate pooled estimates of effect for all studies combined. There were 8330 deaths after a mean of 10.6 y of follow-up. Mortality from ischemic heart disease was 24% lower in vegetarians than in nonvegetarians (death rate ratio: 0.76; 95% CI: 0.62, 0.94; P<0.01). The lower mortality from ischemic heart disease among vegetarians was greater at younger ages and was restricted to those who had followed their current diet for >5 y. Further categorization of diets showed that, in comparison with regular meat eaters, mortality from ischemic heart disease was 20% lower in occasional meat eaters, 34% lower in people who ate fish but not meat, 34% lower in lactoovovegetarians, and 26% lower in vegans. There were no significant differences between vegetarians and nonvegetarians in mortality from cerebrovascular disease, stomach cancer, colorectal cancer, lung cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, or all other causes combined.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479225


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to frazzled (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:13 PM

13. Or the overall mortality rate

 

Which is and has always been 1.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to frazzled (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:26 PM

18. Ah - real numbers at last. The most absurd thing about medical reporting is the asinine relative

If I buy two Powerball tickets instead of one I am 100% more likely to win $150MM toniight - a far more significant change in probability. Should I quit my job now? Of course the real "risk" number here is that I still only have a one in 88 or so million chance of winning, so no I shouldn't bother changing my life in anticipation of winning.

Now should I go veg to avoid CHD death? (In my case this is moot, but let's be generic). Well the numbers above say if I do, I am 99.38% likely to avoid dying of heart failure this year (0.62 mortality rate). Yeah healthy veggie me! But if I keep on with the bacon and cheeseburgers? 99.24% likely to avoid it (0.76 rate). Damn.....ermmmm....still pretty healthy carnivorous me I guess. Depends on whether you think another 14 skulls on that 10000 sided die is worth giving up greater enjoyment and variety for. Some say yep, most don't.

The point though is absurd relative risk numbers make idiots think these lifestyle changes present serious and dramatic benefits, when they don't. Even smoking - the unchallenged manifold times champion in avoidable health risks that leaves booze, fat, sugar, obesity and the like barely visible in its rear view mirror, doesn't approach the implicit idea that uninformed consumers - most of them - imagine when they are fed big numbers in health reporting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to frazzled (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 06:13 PM

23. frazz

 

You're probably seeing the beneficial effect of omegas among the fish eaters. Those can be obtained from flaxseed oil without having to worry about mercury.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:10 PM

11. Been a Vegetarian about 5 years.

I feel great and my bad cholesterol is low and my good cholesterol is high, a complete turn around for me. Being a gym rat, I can assure you that I am in no way anemic. However, that does not mean I couldn't be convinced that some people need to eat animal due to a need for a certain type of protein or whatever. Got no problem with that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:13 PM

12. Your brain loves cholesterol

but your heart doesn't.

Live longer with a higher chance of dementia, or die earlier with a good brain.

tough choice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:39 PM

15. Some DUers go all freeper hippy puncher on vegetarians and vegans

They're all "I'll give you my meat when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #15)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:19 PM

30. The only solution is

for each side to reassure each other that they're not going to take the other's lifestyle away. I think the veggie people are far more ready to ban meat eating than the meat eaters are ready to compel meat eating.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:59 PM

37. Yet the "meat eaters" are much more prone

to ridicule, taunting, insulting, and denigrating non-meaters. Why is that, do you think?

There are some valid reasons - economy, ecology, water, population, etc - for at least limiting meat.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mzteris (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:07 PM

38. Let's face it

We're a bit insecure about it. We know how things change when progressives rally behind a cause. I sure hope that mandatory veganism doesn't become the default progressive position, I would suppose that there are those who feel as I do, and use ridicule, etc. to fight back. Me, I figure that for the rest of my lifetime (I'm 57) I won't be faced with bans on buying meat. My grandson, well, I'm not so sure he will have that luxury.

Justify your religious/moral/philosophical belief for whatever reasons you wish, just let the rest of us do what we want to do, OK?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #38)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:32 PM

39. I became vegetarian

primarily because of my children's health reasons. (Though my younger son had to start eating either poultry or fish - he couldn't do the chicken, but agreed to the fish, so I eat that with him. My older son is still fully vegetarian. My oldest daughter and her husband probably eat a cow a week. . . )

All I'm saying is that "growing" meat - food water land - feeds fewer and costs more - costs more in many way. I don't think there will be much of a choice in the future. Climate change will affect that. My beliefs have nothing to do with it.

AND the point I was making is that no - vegetarians are NOT trying to legislate your right to eat meat away - yet, most meat eaters can become quite nasty when confronted with a vegetarian.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mzteris (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:22 AM

42. I'm sure that nastiness

comes from encounters with vegans/vegetarians who, unlike you, feel the need to proselytize their beliefs in order to make themselves feel more normal.

Most everything we do in modern life (and by that, I mean any lifestyle above the hunter-gatherer level) involves a use of resources. The land your home is on used to provide food for animals, even if they were only insects. If you want to feel guilty about the resources you use, that's your business, but I refuse to join you in that belief system.

You asked why some omnivores were the way they were about your practice, I tried to give you an honest answer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:23 PM

17. Nothing especially new here.

Read THE CHINA STUDY. A vegan diet helps reduce heart disease, type 1 diabetes, macular degeneration, obesity, osteoporosis, cancer.. the list goes on and on..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:58 PM

21. great story

And would someone please pass me the Ketchup?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 06:11 PM

22. Statistics can be misleading

These people who made the rather serious commitment to become vegetarians are a special case.

And let's be clear here, vegetarianism was not imposed on them as part of the study, it was a choice.

I see no mention in the article of the points I'll raise so let's consider this a thought experiment.

Can we assume that meditation and other forms of biofeedback are potentially good for ones health? If so, is it reasonable to assume that vegetarians, on average, practice that more?

You see where I'm going with this? Arguably the vegetarians will, on average, be more fastidious about many aspects of day to day living that relate to health and well being.

And imo there's an intangible that I very much doubt was accounted for.

Imo many of the vegetarians see it as a matter of responsibility and pride to do well in this study. That will affect everything.

It becomes not just a study, it also becomes a competition.

P.S. I've been doing some reading over the last year and it seems for non-vegetarians eating eggs and dairy from animals that are fed well and treated well can make a positive difference in their health as compared to those who eat lots of dairy and eggs from mistreated animals raised factory style. Omega 3 levels is just part of the story. http://www.omega-3.se/en/food.html

Here's a good link. http://www.cornucopia.org/ Look at the "Scorecards" tab and its pop-up menu.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 06:54 PM

28. Heart disease is one thing, overall morbidity and mortality another.


This is an epidemiological study, and can be totally misinterpreted, just like the infamous China study - they find what they want.

There are no vegetarian hunter-gatherers, and they are all in superior health to any vegetarian or vegan.

Google Hadza or Kitava.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:08 PM

29. I manage to make up the difference

with ice cream and butter. Not my recommendation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:58 PM

36. I WENT VEG..

a year and a month ago, and haven't had a cold, flu, or anything. I also dont use milk anymore. just cheese and eggs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:45 PM

41. Veganism is much healthier than vegetarianism.

I was highly motivated to study the subject. I had a heart attack.

The animal fats in dairy are easily converted to cholesterol, just the same as the fats in meat.

and egg yolks have more dietary cholesterol than anything on the planet.

Want to eat really healthy? Eat vegan.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kwassa (Reply #41)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 02:27 PM

72. I eat at least one egg yolk a day

(but very little dairy and only fish) and my cholesterol is 155 without meds, compared to 265 when I was eating like most people. Just saying that eggs are not the enemy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #72)

Sun Feb 3, 2013, 09:27 PM

75. most cholesterol is manufactured in our body ...

by our liver from saturated fats.

My cholesterol is 136 now because I am cheating too much and slacking on the exercise. I had my total cholesterol down to 85 a couple years ago.

Eggs are part of the picture. If you get rid of the yolks, they're fabulous. It is about the total diet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:13 AM

43. But cuts the will to live 64%

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AngryAmish (Reply #43)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:03 AM

45. False

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #45)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:39 PM

54. true

i don't want to live 10 years longer (or whatever) if all i can eat are vegetables. yuck.

my cholesterol, blood pressure, triglycerides, all are just fine as an omnivore, thanks very much.

you have my share of the vegetables. especially the brussels sprouts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scout (Reply #54)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 04:44 PM

58. You just showed you have no idea what a vegetarian diet is

Nor a vegan diet.

Where did I say you have to eat that way? Nowhere. I am answering a poster who said it is a miserable way to eat. It isn't. I eat delicious, varied, healthy food.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #58)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 10:21 AM

59. and i was agreeing with said poster, that a vegetarian diet

is a miserable way to eat.

i would not want to live 10 years longer if i had to eat a vegetarian diet to do so.

opinions, etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scout (Reply #59)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:37 PM

62. And we're free to say that an omnivorous diet

is a miserable way to eat. Many are perfectly happy not eating meat for whatever their reason may be.

Opinions, etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yewberry (Reply #62)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 03:02 PM

67. no one said you weren't.

and supposedly it's the "meat eaters" that are so defensive on DU.

for fuck sake.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scout (Reply #67)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 12:21 AM

69. Oh, no, too funny!

Did you not realize that I was simply parroting your own judgmental words back at you?

So sorry, I thought it was obvious...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yewberry (Reply #69)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 12:42 PM

70. why yes, i did realize you were being a parrot!

did you not realize expressing one's opinion about what one prefers to eat is not being judgmental? probably not, in your rush to be all defensive.

bwaaaaack, yewberry wants some broccoli!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:16 AM

46. Sorry.

 

I grew up a meat and potatos guy, been that way all my life and I'm not going to change. On my last physical, my doctor told me that I'm very healthy and to just keep on doing what I'm doing.
However, is someone wants to be a vegan or vegetarian, good for them, that's their choice, just don't try to change me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:25 AM

47. Do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war, Redfairen?

 

He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 100 years ago, he may have been right.

But now, food is too important to be left to the politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for culinary thought.

I can no longer sit back and allow vegetarian infiltration, vegetarian indoctrination, vegetarian subversion, and the international vegetarian conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:38 AM

48. I'm a vegan but you have to eat really nutritious foods

or you will be just as unhealthy as anyone else.

I eat no animal products or processed foods. Everything I eat is high nutrient, low calorie and I make sure that I eat the foods that I need every day.

I feel better than I ever have. I have more energy than I ever have had. I am off my blood pressure medicine and my BP is back under normal.

You have to study nutrition and make sure the diet is balanced and highly nutritious.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:56 AM

49. DUH!!!!

Since going full vegan my health and spirit have improved immeasurably.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:52 AM

52. Wow

This is really informative!!!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 04:13 PM

56. I'll take my chances with meat

Oh, and I am 50, low blood pressure, low cholesterol, etc.

Heart was just checked throughly - all good there too

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 04:15 PM

57. Also, nothing in article to indicate if they looked at types of meat

If people eat fish, pork and chicken, but no beef, what is that outcome?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dbackjon (Reply #57)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 09:46 AM

77. Not only that....

These studies have a bad habit of measuring vegetarians against normal, crappy, Standard American Diets. Because of the very reasons most people pick vegetarianism or veganism, they are inherently more likely to have a healthy diet than Joe/Jane Blow on the street who eats a SAD. This study said it adjusted for various factors, but one of those factors was not 'unhealthy standard diet'. I'd like to see a head-to-head study comparing those who eat Paleo diets, vegan diets, vegetarian diets (and all the subsets of that), those who eat 'healthy low-fat' diets and so on. Just comparing vegetarianism to random people (the majority of whom know zilch about nutrition) is not a ground breaking study. It's not a true comparison. You could almost compare ANY kind of 'fad' diet to the normal SAD and get better results.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to laundry_queen (Reply #77)

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 11:26 AM

78. Very true

90% of the vegetarians I know are health nuts to begin with. They know they have to balance their diet to ensure they get proper nutrition

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 01:52 PM

63. GOP plans to enshrine meat as amendment to constitution...

The right to eat and cure meats shall not be infringed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:39 PM

64. No shit!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 01:24 PM

71. Yeah, but you just die of boredom.

I don't eat a lot of beef, but I eat chicken, seafood and the occasional pork loin. I mostly eat lean protein and I also eat plenty of vegetables.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Redfairen (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2013, 05:15 PM

73. If there were a big effect, it would be obvious

There would be scads of centenerian Seventh Day Adventists, Hindus, and Bhuddists, etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread