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Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:14 AM

 

Obama: Gun-control advocates have to listen more

Source: SFGate

President Barack Obama says gun-control advocates have to do a little more listening than they do sometimes in the debate over firearms in America.

In an interview with The New Republic, Obama says he has "a profound respect" for the tradition of hunting that dates back for generations.
"And I think those who dismiss that out of hand make a big mistake. Part of being able to move this forward is understanding the reality of guns in urban areas are very different from the realities of guns in rural areas," he says.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/Obama-Gun-control-advocates-have-to-listen-more-4226717.php



Three dimensional chess.

107 replies, 11792 views

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Reply Obama: Gun-control advocates have to listen more (Original post)
Paul E Ester Jan 2013 OP
alittlelark Jan 2013 #1
napoleon_in_rags Jan 2013 #2
obama2terms Jan 2013 #15
bitchkitty Jan 2013 #16
obama2terms Jan 2013 #48
napoleon_in_rags Jan 2013 #78
Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2013 #19
Squinch Jan 2013 #51
Purveyor Jan 2013 #3
Why Syzygy Jan 2013 #5
DRoseDARs Jan 2013 #4
hack89 Jan 2013 #17
Squinch Jan 2013 #52
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #6
tavalon Jan 2013 #12
Paladin Jan 2013 #20
tavalon Jan 2013 #23
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #28
tavalon Jan 2013 #29
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #32
tavalon Jan 2013 #36
Paladin Jan 2013 #31
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #34
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #35
Ter Jan 2013 #47
Paladin Jan 2013 #49
Squinch Jan 2013 #54
Ter Jan 2013 #70
mac56 Jan 2013 #73
Squinch Jan 2013 #85
LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jan 2013 #71
oldbanjo Jan 2013 #61
BainsBane Jan 2013 #81
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #94
SheilaT Jan 2013 #7
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #21
onpatrol98 Jan 2013 #37
SheilaT Jan 2013 #72
onpatrol98 Jan 2013 #77
MJJP21 Jan 2013 #8
safeinOhio Jan 2013 #10
Kablooie Jan 2013 #9
tavalon Jan 2013 #11
truth2power Jan 2013 #39
Lurks Often Jan 2013 #42
farminator3000 Jan 2013 #56
oldbanjo Jan 2013 #65
oldbanjo Jan 2013 #63
Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #13
tavalon Jan 2013 #24
Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #44
tavalon Jan 2013 #57
Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #62
spin Jan 2013 #79
onehandle Jan 2013 #14
hack89 Jan 2013 #18
tavalon Jan 2013 #26
hack89 Jan 2013 #45
cstanleytech Jan 2013 #64
askeptic Jan 2013 #25
tavalon Jan 2013 #27
askeptic Jan 2013 #38
tavalon Jan 2013 #60
truth2power Jan 2013 #40
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #30
krispos42 Jan 2013 #53
Dustlawyer Jan 2013 #22
onpatrol98 Jan 2013 #41
klyon Jan 2013 #33
Lurks Often Jan 2013 #43
underpants Jan 2013 #46
jbone45 Jan 2013 #50
farminator3000 Jan 2013 #58
bluestateguy Jan 2013 #55
JoeyT Jan 2013 #59
Brigid Jan 2013 #66
forestpath Jan 2013 #67
Hoyt Jan 2013 #68
spin Jan 2013 #80
Hoyt Jan 2013 #84
spin Jan 2013 #89
dickthegrouch Jan 2013 #69
Brigid Jan 2013 #74
fascisthunter Jan 2013 #75
primavera Jan 2013 #76
JVS Jan 2013 #82
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #83
primavera Jan 2013 #86
Socal31 Jan 2013 #88
primavera Jan 2013 #90
Socal31 Jan 2013 #91
primavera Jan 2013 #93
Crepuscular Jan 2013 #99
primavera Jan 2013 #102
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #104
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #92
primavera Jan 2013 #95
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #96
primavera Jan 2013 #98
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #103
primavera Jan 2013 #105
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #106
MicaelS Jan 2013 #100
primavera Jan 2013 #101
4Q2u2 Jan 2013 #87
Bonobo Jan 2013 #97
lexis Feb 2013 #107

Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:21 AM

1. He's playing to their racism....

....nice. I'd like to hear their arguments,

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:27 AM

2. Obama's cool.

He gets cast as this urban president, but really I think he understands the rural situation, particularly the struggles of poor rural folks who put some game on the table because they have a tough time buying grocery store food.

The movie Winter's Bone

did a great job of portraying the kind of scenes in modern America where folks are dealing with poverty and sometimes guns equal food, and are part of daily life. I know we have a president who takes the whole American scene in and cares about people in these situations too.

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Response to napoleon_in_rags (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:29 AM

15. Omg

I'm reading this book right now and it's great I can't believe it's going to be a movie thnx for posting

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Response to obama2terms (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:31 AM

16. It's already a movie - came out in 2010. n/t

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:43 PM

48. Lol

Yeah haha I realized that when I googled it

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Response to obama2terms (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 12:02 AM

78. Yeah, definitely see it.

I didn't read the book, but I loved the movie. They did a really good job of portraying white rural poverty - nobody was "trash" - all were real multi-dimensional people. Very compassionate well done film making.

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Response to napoleon_in_rags (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:39 AM

19. Do they hunt with $1500 AR15s in this movie?

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:17 PM

51. Yes. Because it takes about a dozen bunnies to make a decent stew.

(and yes, of course that's sarcasm.)

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:33 AM

3. "Hunting" wasn't even a consideration when the founding fathers installed the 2A. eom

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:05 AM

5. Horses and bayonets



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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:52 AM

4. Listen more? To what, more screaming and wailing about how teh gubbint gunna tack r gurhns?

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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:35 AM

17. You would have thought by now that everyone would have figured

that there will no gun confiscation. The types of weapons Americans have now are the same weapons they will have in the future.

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Response to DRoseDARs (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:19 PM

52. It would be easier for us to hear them talk about how we are going to

"grab their guns" if they would all just proceed peacefully to the FEMA camps and talk one at a time.

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:16 AM

6. I totally agree with Obama.

I have lived in an area in which hunting was a great sport. I love eating venison when it is well cooked.

But I now live in a city. Just tonight, we heard gun shots. And there have been killings in our area, just a couple of blocks from where we live a couple of times this year. Kind of changes your perspective. Killing a surplus of deer in the country is very different from knowing that a neighbor was possibly shot while you sat in your living room a couple of blocks away.

It's so important for gun enthusiasts to understand the reality of city life, but also for city dwellers to understand what it is like to have deer feast on your crops or eat up your garden.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:28 AM

12. I've had venison and liked it

I've never had venison that was killed with a semi automatic with 30 rounds. I suspect no one has because the deer wouldn't be anything but a splatter. Much like the children in the Newtown massacre. Associating people's fascination with weapons of war with legitimate hunting is a bizarre strawman.

Just using your post as a jumping off point. I've lived in both places and I don't advocate a no hunting stance. Without hunting season, deer populations would explode followed by their starvation.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:45 AM

20. Isn't It Funny: Watching The Gun Rights People Embrace Hunting.


After years and years of ignoring it, or even insulting those who enjoy it ("Fudds").

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Response to Paladin (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:58 AM

23. Truth be told, I had never heard that

and have spent years working myself up to the idea of going hunting myself. I admire the self reliance of those who hunt. I'm not real sure I actually would have it in me. I know I don't have it in me to go on a shooting rampage, hunting children. I don't have it in me to even understand that, in any way, shape or form.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:29 AM

28. you do realize

A semi-automatic only fires one round at a time right? And both of these rifles are functionally identical?

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-r-15/model-r-15.aspx

http://www.remington.com/en/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/autoloading-model-750.aspx

I know you are smart enough to know fully automatic firing and semi-automatic firing

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:35 AM

29. You got me, actually, I didn't and don't know my subject well enough

Would that I lived in a world where I didn't have to.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #29)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:43 AM

32. thank you for not calling me names

It does seem to be a very common mistake

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #32)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:56 AM

36. I've said numerous times in this thread that I'm not against hunting

I admire hunters. I don't admire people who massacre humans. Who could?

And yeah, if I'm going to argue with any authority, I'm going to need to learn more about the types of guns. I don't think I'm alone in not knowing the different kinds.

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:42 AM

31. What About The 30-Round Magazine, Mr. Duckhunter?


I know you're smart enough to know that your not mentioning magazine capacity would be noticed. If you really do hunt ducks, your shotgun has a limited firing capacity, by law. How about limiting the size of magazines, as far as human targets are concerned?

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Response to Paladin (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:46 AM

34. I have no problems

with magazine limits. Larger magazines tend to jam anyway. My limit would be 20 and what could fit in the pistol grip. I could live with less, just do not think it will do a lot in a rifle. Handguns are the biggest problem.

Do not hunt human targets, I hunt paper target and cans at a range on post.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:47 AM

35. "DUCKHUNTER"

is from spending 20 years in army air defense. ADA nickname.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 12:35 PM

47. Would you like Tic-Tac's or Lifesavers that only hold 5 candies?

 

That's an inconvenience. 30 round clips make it easier by not having to reload frequently.

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Response to Ter (Reply #47)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:50 PM

49. Yeah, Because Gun Magazines And Hard Candy Are Pretty Much The Same.


If that's a serious response from you, I don't believe you have sense enough to be trusted with firearms. Beyond pathetic, all the way into the realm of genuinely dangerous thinking. I'll be interested to see how many of our resident Gun Enthusiasts side with you on such an asinine comment.

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Response to Ter (Reply #47)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:29 PM

54. Gosh. We didn't realize. And of course, what's most important to the rest of us is

your convenience as you pursue your hobbies.

That's much more important than public safety.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #54)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:50 PM

70. Who said anything about me?

 

I live in an abusive city that already restricts my rights.

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Response to Ter (Reply #70)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:48 PM

73. Move.

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Response to Ter (Reply #70)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 06:47 AM

85. You live in an abusive city......mmmmkay....

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:44 PM

71. How about a semi-automatic with a legally modified stock?

http://tinyurl.com/b33bo2l

Take that, Bambi!

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Response to tavalon (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:40 PM

61. I've hunted with an Browning auto rifle and shotgun sense 1969,

I only fire one shot normally. Because you have many shells doesn't mean that you have to fire all of them at one deer.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:34 AM

81. I wish I only heard gun shots a couple of times a year

It's a lot more often than that in my neighborhood. And nope, they aren't shooting deer.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #81)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:09 PM

94. It's actually more than a couple of times a year here too. And, it isn't deer.

We heard some just the other night.

City life.

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:14 AM

7. Oh, I don't know.

The gun apologists have had the stage since the beginning. Maybe those of us who are totally against guns should have our say.

The rest of the world gets by quite fine without their citizenry being armed to the hilt. And, amazingly enough, regimes have been overthrown even without a 2nd amendment to arm the civilians.

I tell ya what. Let's let the gun apologists, each and every one, lose a child or mother or sibling to gun violence. Then let them come back and say, it's okay for everyone to be armed. And if they do, I'll make sure they get to clean up the mess, and then ask them again. Shall we arm everyone? And if they still say yes, I'll suggest that they need professional help for their addiction to guns.

No guns. Period. Other countries manage without them. We can also.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:48 AM

21. I think your post shows what the President means. We are probably in near agreement on the issue.

But I would never endorse such rhetoric as you use here: " Let's let the gun apologists, each and every one, lose a child or mother or sibling to gun violence."
What do the words 'let's let them lose a child' actually mean?
There is no issue on Earth that gives one side the license to say 'let their kids die, then they might understand'. None. Sorry if that bothers you, but I think that is what the President means.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:57 AM

37. Lose a child???

Have you lost your friggin mind? Let's let them lose a child??? That's your bright idea for talking to people. I bet that's what the crazy killer of children thought in Newtown. I'll show them. Your comment makes me want to throw up. I don't want anyone to ever as long as they live have to suffer the death of a child for any purpose. I find the person that does a sick and twisted individual. And, then after suggesting, that YOU would suggest they seek professional help.

We are conflating totally different things. The constitution gives a right to bear arms. If after the loss of a loved one, they were to still come back and say, we have the right to bear arms. They wouldn't be crazy. They would be stating the obvious.

I do not believe people need to own guns apart from hunting and self defense. I think more than one is too many. I think they give people a false sense of security and would love to see a gun free society...criminals included. But, the founding fathers neglected to add a caveat that said...if onpatrol approves.

So, I try to think gun safety, laws that really will save our children instead of political theater. But no matter the issue, no matter the point, I don't want a parent to have to bury a child. That was supposed to be the damn point in the first place.



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Response to onpatrol98 (Reply #37)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:27 PM

72. I am trying to make the point that the deaths of innocents

seem to mean absolutely NOTHING to the gun apologists. Twenty kids dead in Connecticut? Ho Hum. Let's arm the teachers.

Three children and their parents slain in Albuquerque? Doesn't matter.

Every single day of the year about thirty people die in this country from guns. I just wish that every single day every newspaper and news outlet in this country would post the names and photographs of those killed in the past week or so.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #72)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:35 PM

77. True...

I have thought this for the nameless children in urban cities that have been dying daily for the last 10 years and more.

These children are worth real reform. I honestly don't know what works. When I realized that people were making bombs out of fertilizer, I wondered just how sad and desperate people were to kill each other.

It's just sad.

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 05:49 AM

8. Big Mistake

Obama is making a big mistake if he is going to link the gun issue with hunting. The real issue is the second amendment which came about to ensure the nation had a way to mount a defense if needed. The new nation did not have the resources to maintain a standing army like Europe so the common man being a member of a " well regulated militia" and his own gun would fit that bill. The fact that the local militia no longer exists mean the first part of the amendment is no longer valid?

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Response to MJJP21 (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 06:32 AM

10. Even in urban areas, a gun in the home

for protection can make sense. I think he is correct in pointing out the regional difference in views on guns.

Reasonable restrictions on where guns are allowed, the types allowed and on the sale seem reasonable to the majority of folks. The problem is when extremist on both sides collide and muddy up the water.

As for the 2nd, it never mentions guns. This is one case where state laws make the most sense. The problem is about when those weapons in liberal gun states cross state lines. Until the gun states find a way to keep their guns out of the more urban states, it will require federal laws to do that.

I've spent about half of my long years in urban areas and the other half in rural areas. I can see the arguments on both sides. When I lived in the country, the gun shots started at sun up on a day in November and ended at sunset. In the city the shots started at sundown every night.

Looks like the President is smart enough to recognize these difference and is headed on the right track by stating this.

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)


Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:20 AM

11. I don't dismiss hunting

I think it's a good skill to have but it's also a skill that only requires a single shot rifle. Unless your prey is Kindergartners and then I guess you just need a semi automatic with huge numbers of rounds.

See, Mr. President, I am completely reasonable. Now, reign in the semi automatics and the large clips. Anybody who pretends they have those for any other prey than people is full of shit.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:08 AM

39. You're correct, tavalon..The crux of the problem is the large clips and

the semi-automatics. Large clips, especially, should be outlawed.

The NRA is doing a very good job of diverting attention away from guns and onto things that are tangentially related, if at all. A mental health data base, for example, is a very bad idea.

Anyone who goes to a mental health practicioner has to have some sort of diagnosis or insurance will not reimburse. It could be something as benign as "adjustment disorder", but all these people would be folded into a gigantic database and stigmatized as mentally ill.

In any case, this wouldn't have made any difference in the Sandy Hook case because the shooter did not purchase the weapons and any mental health contact he may have had would be a moot point.

I think Pres. Obama is wrong on this.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:42 AM

42. This is where you are wrong

You think that the semi-automatic rifle made a difference. It could have been done with any pump shotgun or double action revolver. I know hundreds of shooters, that while they find the very though abhorrent, have the skills to have done that. There are MILLIONS of shooters in this country with those skills.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #42)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:31 PM

56. that is such a poorly constructed thought you should be embarrassed for putting it in public

Last edited Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:48 PM - Edit history (1)

Loughner allegedly proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd. He reportedly used a 9mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine. A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots". Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it. Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the 14th injury. The gunman was tackled to the ground by 74-year-old retired US Army Colonel Bill Badger, who had been shot himself, and was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio was a CCW holder and had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not use the firearm to engage or threaten the gunman.

wiki it.

i can only guess that the size of your own gun wold cause you to not care about what a psychotic attacker is using for a weapon?

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #42)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:53 PM

65. You are correct.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:51 PM

63. I have hunted with Browning auto rifles sense 1969.

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 08:51 AM

13. President Obama is correct

 

Some anti-gun folks really should take a step back, lose the emotion, and make a concerted effort to listen to the thoughts and concerns of the people on the other side of the debate.

And I would advise this regardless of what Obama might say.

You are not going to get the meanigful weapons restrictions you want until you can convince gun owners to voluntarily relax their death grip on their weapons. And that will only happen when their concerns are addressed. This is not a left versus right issue, it's not conservatives versus liberals, it's gun rights versus gun restrictions. And right now we are surrendering many of these voters to the GOP by default.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:13 AM

24. I don't think losing the emotion is the way to go, actually

Yeah, I see how that alienates some, but without the emotion around Newtown, we wouldn't be on the verge of passing any kind of sane gun laws. Remember the last time we had any kind of sense around guns was after President Raygun got shot and the bill was named after his Communication Director, who was also shot and paralyzed? We all know his name, to this day.

It's sad that we need that emotion to galvanize us, but there it is. We fight because we are enraged that children are dying so that gun nuts don't have to give up their precious and many guns. We fight because we've found the will to care and the voice to go with it.

No one and I do mean no one, should have the right to have semi automatic (or worse, automatic) weapons. Period. Yes, I'm including the military in that. If we aren't willing to stand face to face with a man we are going to kill then we shouldn't kill him. Yeah, I know the others aren't following that. So what.

What kind of NRA fueled crap have we been fed that I'm extreme for saying that guns that are only meant for murdering people en masse, shouldn't be allowed in any household?

I'm with the blessed and very missed, Molly Ivins on this one. I'm pro-knife.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930315&slug=1690536

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Response to tavalon (Reply #24)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:49 AM

44. Nice post! (text below)

 

Great post. You talk about keeping the emotions then discard them to pen a thoughful reasoned argument and a proposal that would actually accomplish what you want. Anyway...

You (or I) might want to ban all semi-automatic weapons, but this is not going to happen. It cannot pass the House, it cannot pass the Senate, President Obama would not sign it, and the USSC would strike it down. And even if we could magically change all of that, it would result in violence on an unimaginable scale. If only 1% of the current NRA membership (never mind gun owners at large) became potentially violent or otherwise refused to comply, we are talking about 400,000 armed and potentially violent militants -- all CONVINCED that they are the good guys, that they are righteous freedom loving Patriots willing to lay down their lives for you and your children.

Crazy or not it irrelevant, this is what they believe. And the real number isn't 400,000 -- it's MILLIONS.

Efforts to make them change their mind through name-calling and villification cannot work, nor will gun bans. Both simply validate their beliefs. They fear people are coming for their weapons, and look at that, they're right! And further, they are also correct about the secind amendment, the founding fathers did include that as a defense against a tyrannical government (among other things). How relevant that is today is another topic entirely.

We can only win by understanding what they believe, accepting the reality of their concerns and opinions, and by working with them to accomplish meaningful reform that addresses their concerns. We must make them part of the solution or they will become the problem.
How is a another question.

Final note: You said you are PRO-KNIFE

Are you aware that many places have fanatical laws against knives and other non-firearm self defense tools? I currently live in Texas, where you would think carrying a freaking Claymore would be totally cool, and even here knives are strictly controlled. As is, amazingly, pepper spray. I looked into this last year and I was astonished. If I want a weapon I can carry basically anywhere, including almost any state, the only choice I have is a gun. Even pepper spray is not necessarily legal, and a canister that was fine in this town is a felony the next city over. It's ridiculous.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #44)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:33 PM

57. It was a stab at a joke that Molly Ivins first said in her amazing way

She's pro knife because then the killing is intentional and bystanders rarely get hurt. As well, it's pro physical fitness since you have to run your victim down before stabbing them - cardiovascular health, right? I'm paraphrasing her.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #57)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:47 PM

62. Gotcha. I learn something new every day :)

 

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 01:19 AM

79. My Florida concealed weapons permit allows me to carry a concealed knife...

in Florida. That seems to be only commonsense to me but in most states a carry permit only applies to a firearm.

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:18 AM

14. Swell. Now get rid of assault weapons, assault clips, and 'semi-automatic' functionality...

...that basically makes it a machine gun.

Nothing to do with hunting, unless you're talking about Kindergartners.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:37 AM

18. What does " get rid of" mean to you?

ban further sales? Does it apply to handguns?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:20 AM

26. I know you didn't address that to me, but I'm going to answer it anyway

"Get rid of" to me means remove them from society. Melt them down. Tie the possession of them to the highest penalties possible (no, not death, but extreme. Not just a slap on the wrist).

Sadly, I know this won't happen. I get the politics and the extreme obscenity that is the NRA lobby, so I'll scale it back a bit. Get rid of the larger magazines for now. When the next atrocity that inflames our nation happens, take away new sales of semi automatics. When the next tragedy unfolds, offer amnesty for people to turn in their semi-automatics and then make possession illegal. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Ad Fucking Nauseum.

Does that help clarify things?

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Response to tavalon (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:55 AM

45. Ok

don't see any of that happening but you are honest as to your intentions.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:52 PM

64. The politics of it is a minor issue the major issue thats standing in the way is

the constitution, specifically the 2nd amendment.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:14 AM

25. Obama talking to you - old west revolvers and other "semi-auto" guns here to stay

You are delusional if you think otherwise

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Response to askeptic (Reply #25)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:22 AM

27. Call me delusional

I hope We the enraged people, have enough moxy to say, No More!

On edit: Obama wasn't talking to anyone, really. He was giving gun nuts a reach around

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Response to tavalon (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:59 AM

38. Then no need to look up what the word "infringe" means

...as you don't really care. Bill of Rights doesn't really care what you think, either.

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Response to askeptic (Reply #38)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:38 PM

60. About a well armed militia?

Sure, but they couldn't have imagined that we would have a well organized and well armed militia already in place now. There is no need for the guy down the street to sign up for a state militia unless red dawn really comes to pass or our government suddenly finds they need JQ NRA card carrying gun nut to somehow organized with a bunch of other fetishists to what end I cannot imagine.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:11 AM

40. "giving gun nuts a reach around". Yes he was. n/t

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Response to onehandle (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:37 AM

30. hunting rifle, get rid of this



even though there is nothing that covers hunting in second amendment

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Response to onehandle (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:27 PM

53. If you get rid of semi-automatics...

...you by extension get rid of all "assault weapons", because one of the defining characteristics of an "assault weapon" is that it is semi-automatic in nature.


Unless you're planning on expanding the definition of "assault weapon" (again) to include guns that are not semi-automatic?

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 09:55 AM

22. My father was born in Pistol Hill, Tx., which is no longer there. During the Great Depression,

he and my Uncle had to hunt for food. My father took me hunting only once, and it was b/c it was with my Grandfather. We hunted squirrels with 22's. Back at the truck, my cousin and I were trying to shoot down a pine cone from a far, tall tree with no luck (seemingly impossible shot). My dad took my 22 which had been his as a boy, aimed, and shot the stem that connected the cone to the tree so it dropped straight down. He said that you had to get real good b/c bullets costs money. They were not allowed to miss! Only later in life did I start to realize why it was no fun for him. I guess that is why my dad loved to go fishing!

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:27 AM

41. In a past life...

I have lived in a household that was supplemented by hunting and fishing. I'm not a hunter though. But one good sized deer a year and a whole lot of fishing went a long way. I don't know any one who hunts or fishes for sport, but I realize people do. Add what you catch or kill to what you grow and you never needed to ask another person for help. You could actually offer help. My grandparents also killed rabbits or squirrels, raised chickens, cows, pigs...some to sell, some to keep. They had a big family, lots of grand kids. It was also helpful for keeping animals away from the chickens.

A gun was a tool. It was a survival tool. They didn't have one "for" self defense. But, I have no doubt my grandfather would have used it for that purpose.

I don't live there anymore. But people still do. And, they're still living the way I used to have to live. Some by choice. Some out of need.

I feel no need for a gun for me as I live my life today. But I realize not everyone lives the same life.

The predators we worried about were either small and four legged or snakes. It didn't take much to put them down. Now, for folks that live near bears and such, they may require more firepower and more opportunities for success unless they're Daniel Boone. I don't know. We need to talk to each other.

I don't think "real" gun control is going to happen until we can talk to people without the the condescending, smugness that poisons and paralyzes the debate. We'll just pass a bunch of stuff that'll make us think we've won one over the opposition. All that gun nut talk is divisive and juvenile, and usually incorrect. Stoking divisiveness may win elections, but it's no way to run a country or solve tough problems.

We won't fix this problem unless we come together.

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 10:45 AM

33. they need to realize that rural life and city life have different needs and expectations

guns in the urban areas are more of a problem than a solution

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Response to klyon (Reply #33)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:46 AM

43. ILLEGAL guns in the urban areas are the problem

and the use of a gun to commit a crime should result in the criminal going to jail for a long time.

We have plenty of laws on the books, they just aren't enforced.

Straw buying, the purchase of a gun for some else is supposed to be a 10 year sentence in a Federal jail. Why isn't that enforced?

Why doesn't ATF investigate and prosecute those people who fail a NICS check because they have a criminal record?

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 11:59 AM

46. Obama is falling prey to the pro-gun's rhetoric - it is not all or nothing

it isn't a choice of having guns everywhere or confiscating ALL guns.

We simply want simple common sense speed bumps that WILL have an effect. Oh and we DO want a tracking database -that we need to ....ahem....stick to our guns on.

Good read here

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/12/the-simple-truth-about-gun-control.html

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:13 PM

50. While I support the president...

 

in the fight against domestic terrorism I don't think that Ted Nugent offers any reasonable insite into the terror shooter problem.

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Response to jbone45 (Reply #50)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:36 PM

58. good point. same here...

as far as ted stoogent goes, you can't polish a turd, and there's no reason to leave it floating around.

flush that crap and turn on the exhaust fan!

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:31 PM

55. Obama is right. Ignore what he says at your peril.

The large majority of people who own guns are not rednecks, racists, hayseeds and psychotics.

If the debate is framed that way it will not end well for our side.

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:37 PM

59. Good luck with that.

While the "No regulation at any cost!" side has very little to offer, some won't even listen to other gun control advocates. It promises to be interesting in a not-very-interesting-at-all-can-we-please-get-some-regulation-that-we-probably-won't-get kind of way.

Sensible regulation like a minimum prison sentence for twenty-five syllable hyphenated words.

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Response to Paul E Ester (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:10 PM

66. I, for one . . .

Have been listening to gun nut rhetoric for as long as I can remember. I have no idea why some people, like my brother and my brother-in-law, are capable of owning and using hunting rifles without becoming like Gollum obsessed with his "precious," while others are not; and I no longer care. All I do know is, military-grade assault weapons and large-capacity magazines and clips have no business in civilian hands. And I'm sick and tired of waiting for the next gun-related tragedy to hit the news. Let's start enforcing the laws that are already on the books, and pass new ones as needed. Let the gun nuts howl all they want; we need to stop the carnage.

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