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Wed Jan 23, 2013, 02:03 PM

Catalonia Declares Itself a Sovereign Entity

Source: Associated Press

Catalonia Declares Itself a Sovereign Entity
MADRID January 23, 2013 (AP)

The parliament of Spain's powerful northeastern region of Catalonia has approved a largely symbolic declaration stating the region is a sovereign entity, paving the way for a referendum on independence from Spain.

The proposal was carried Wednesday by 85 votes in favor, with 41 against and two abstentions.

Though symbolic, the declaration sets up a potential showdown with the central government in Madrid, which has said it will block any move toward Catalonian independence in the courts.

The declaration was backed by the region's governing Convergence and Union group and the Republican Left. It was opposed by the Catalonian Socialist Party and the Popular Party that governs Spain.


Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/catalonia-declares-sovereign-entity-18293833

16 replies, 2904 views

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Arrow 16 replies Author Time Post
Reply Catalonia Declares Itself a Sovereign Entity (Original post)
Judi Lynn Jan 2013 OP
Glorfindel Jan 2013 #1
sanatanadharma Jan 2013 #2
canuckledragger Jan 2013 #3
Glorfindel Jan 2013 #5
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #6
quadrature Jan 2013 #7
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #8
andypandy Jan 2013 #9
dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #11
dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #12
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #15
dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #16
elleng Jan 2013 #4
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #10
bigapple1963 Jan 2013 #13
pampango Jan 2013 #14

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 03:15 PM

1. Oh, goody...what's next? Old South Wales? Pomerania? Slavonia?

Maybe Europe will end up with 200 or 300 mini-states: Coburg, Saxe-Coburg, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, etc. Well, to be fair about it, the existing ones seem to be doing pretty well, so maybe it's a good idea. Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Monaco, etc., just might serve as great examples for the future. Long live Thuringia! Forward, Emilia Romagna!

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Response to Glorfindel (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 03:22 PM

2. What is next...

...is the 50 independent states of the former USA of the Americas

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Response to sanatanadharma (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 03:40 PM

3. Better hope not...

I shudder at the thought of teabaggers getting access to suddenly abandonded nuclear missile silos...

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Response to sanatanadharma (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 03:49 PM

5. What a truly dreadful prospect

Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, and Louisiana wouldn't last half an hour without Federal assistance. Not to mention hordes of rednecks with access to advanced weaponry.

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Response to Glorfindel (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 07:00 PM

6. The Falklands one in in March. The Scotland referendum is coming up fairly soon as well

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 10:25 PM

7. will the Union flag change after Scotland leaves? nt

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Response to quadrature (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 11:30 PM

8. No clue..not even tracking the polls on that one

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Response to quadrature (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:11 AM

9. Union Flag...

unlikely, the Union Flag didn't change after the creation of the Republic of Ireland (and no, i'm not getting into Northern Ireland!), and in addition, the SNP are saying that an independent Scotland would retain significant links to the 'rump' UK - Currency, Head of State, probably significant defence infrastructure etc...

the current polling is around the 35% for independence mark, but it is variable, and it depends a lot on the 'don't knows'.

the big drivers appear to be that the 'pro' figure will go up if a conservative party win in the 2015 GE looks more likely (though if independence is rejected, 'devolution-max' is on the cards, so the effect of a Conservative London government would be minimal on Scottish domestic politics), but also that supoort for independence will fall/not increase if the SNP continue to be shown to have not done the homework they said they had done that supports their position that Scotland will be both richer, and automatically a member of the EU, and won't have to either negotiate its entry into the EU, or join the less than universally admired EuroZone single currency.

the starter for this was that the SNP/Scottish Government has being saying for years that it had legal advice that said it would 'inherit' the UK's membership and previously negotiated opt outs - however, it refused to publish this legal advice, and went to court to prevent it being published. it then turned out that the legal advice didn't exist, and had never been asked for. the EU says that Scotland would not automatically become a member of the EU upon independence, and that it would have to negotiate its entry.

its a mess, and anyone who claims to know what will happen is a fantasist.

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Response to andypandy (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:14 AM

11. The "legal advice" bit is a fairy story

They would "inherit" sfa but I don't think there's any suggestion that Westminster would obstruct an application for EU separate EU membership.

The main problem with the fairy story is that it may have contributed to both Venice and Catalonia believing it whereas their respective governments have already said go whistle.

For the avoidance of doubt : acceptance of an application for EU membership requires ALL current members to agree. One veto and it out the door.

Those are the rules according to management.



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Response to quadrature (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:18 AM

12. Even I hadn't considered that

The Union Jack would look a bit odd with St Andrew's flag removed leaving a complete absense of blue.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:58 PM

15. Police photofit:



http://richardlegate.wordpress.com/2012/01/21/alex-salmond-freedom-fighter/

Though I'd think they might work in something for Wales, since that looks a bit washed out. A green bottom half?

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 03:26 PM

16. I'm not quite sure

what Victor Meldrew would have to say about that.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 03:47 PM

4. Really nothing new:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalonia

After Franco's death in 1975 and the adoption of a democratic constitution in Spain in 1978, Catalonia recovered and extended the powers that it had gained in the Statute of Autonomy of 1932 but lost with the fall of the Second Spanish Republic at the end of the Spanish Civil War in 1939.

The region has gradually achieved more autonomy since the approval of the Spanish Constitution of 1978. The Generalitat holds exclusive jurisdiction in culture, environment, communications, transportation, commerce, public safety and local government, and shares jurisdiction with the Spanish government in education, health and justice. In all, the current system grants Catalonia with "more self-government than almost any other corner in Europe"

A relatively large sector of the population supports the ideas and policies of Catalan nationalism, a political movement which defends the notion that Catalonia is a separate nation and advocates for either further political autonomy or full independence of Catalonia.

The support for Catalan nationalism ranges from the desire for independence from the rest of Spain, expressed by Catalan independentists, to a demand for further autonomy and the federalisation of Spain

--------------
LONG history.

In the Middle Ages, these counties in the northeast of the Iberian Peninsula became the basis for Catalonia under the rule of the counts of Barcelona. The counts of Barcelona were Frankish vassals nominated by the emperor of the Franks, to whom they were feudatories (801987).

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 09:56 AM

10. Viva Catalunya!

The Catalonians are more similar in culture and language to the people of Southern France than they are from the rest of the Iberian peninsula.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:54 AM

13. if i'm not wrong

 

they are tired of sending money to the federal government and not getting much back. The rich regions (e.g. Germany) at some point get tired of subsidizing the poorer regions (e.g. Greece).

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Response to bigapple1963 (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 11:26 AM

14. I think you are right about financial frustrations in Catalonia about Spain. However,

Catalonians, if they get their independence wish, may eventually find themselves in the EU as an independent country then find themselves still being called up to help poorer regions, including Spain. There would be a certain amount of irony in that.

From what I have read the 'sovereignty' movements in Catalina, the Basques, the Welch and others all expect to be members of the EU either automatically or after a brief accession process.

To the credit of the 'rich' in Europe (Germany, France, Sweden and others) they have not, AFAIK, taken any steps to kick Greece (or Italy or Spain or Ireland) out of the EU.

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