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Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:20 AM

Boeing investigation turns to battery maker

Source: AP-Excite

By ELAINE KURTENBACH

TOKYO (AP) - Japanese and U.S. investigators began a probe Monday into the maker of the lithium ion batteries used in Boeing's grounded 787 jets.

Tsutomu Nishijima, a spokesman for GS Yuasa, the battery manufacturer, said investigators visited the company's headquarters in Kyoto, Japan and that Yuasa was cooperating with the probe.

All 50 of the 787 Dreamliners that Boeing has delivered to airlines were grounded after an overheated battery forced the emergency landing of an All Nippon Airways 787 flight last week in western Japan. Boeing has halted deliveries of new planes until it can address the electrical problems.

Monday's investigation involved an introductory meeting and factory tour, with deeper studies into product quality and other issues to follow as the probe continues, said Tatsuyuki Shimazu, the chief air worthiness engineer at the Civil Aviation Bureau's Aviation Safety Department.

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20130121/DA3UI1S03.html

17 replies, 2252 views

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Arrow 17 replies Author Time Post
Reply Boeing investigation turns to battery maker (Original post)
Omaha Steve Jan 2013 OP
liberal N proud Jan 2013 #1
TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #5
liberal N proud Jan 2013 #8
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #9
liberal N proud Jan 2013 #11
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #12
liberal N proud Jan 2013 #13
YOHABLO Jan 2013 #15
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #16
sendero Jan 2013 #2
Angleae Jan 2013 #3
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #4
Franker65 Jan 2013 #6
Evasporque Jan 2013 #7
SCVDem Jan 2013 #10
mntleo2 Jan 2013 #14
Angleae Jan 2013 #17

Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:23 AM

1. I still say Lithium batteries at 40 thousand feet is not a good idea

Lithium, 40 thousand feet and the condensation it brings with the elevation changes spells disaster.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:26 AM

5. My money's on a too flimsy case and either atmospheric...

 

...pressure or the temperature differential between the interior and exterior of a hot battery, opening up the casing to expose the cells to the air.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:07 AM

8. Something is allowing moisture to come in contact with the lithium

Lithium + moisture of any kind = FIRE!

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:12 PM

9. Don't even need moisture.

As the poster above mentioned, all you need to do is expose the cell to atmosphere, and you have the potential for, or an actual fire.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:21 PM

11. Atmosphere is the moisture

Lithium batteries are manufactured in a zero humidity, dry room.

People working in the dry room are not even allowed to use skin lotion prior to entering.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:36 PM

12. I see. You mentioned condensation earlier.

So I was thinking you meant it required liquid water, but you are correct. It is the moisture content of the atmosphere that does it. Liquid water just accelerates it.

Had a friend with a house fire once as a result of this. They left a cell phone in the glove compartment of their car for a year, as an emergency thing. Battery split, caught fire, burned the car, e-brake handle let go, car rolled down the driveway into the house like some medieval battering ram, lit the house on fire. What a mess.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:52 PM

13. I was thinking condensation because of the altitude changes

When you take a plane to 40 thousand feet and back down, you will get condensation. If there is any way for that to get into the cells of the batteries, you are in for some fireworks.

I work for a manufacture of lithium batteries so the science is front and center here. We have had fires in dry rooms in the past.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:18 PM

15. That's really having a bad day!

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:04 AM

16. Cedar roof too.

House went up like nobody's business.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:36 AM

2. I hafta wonder...

.. about the charging system. That is the most likely cause of batteries overheating, being overcharged. I'm sure they are looking at that as well.

Yuasa is a well known company that has been around a long time. I would be surprised a bit if the batteries themselves are the problem.

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Response to sendero (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:48 AM

3. It depends on if they changed the charging system from what has been used for decades.

A typical aircraft battery is 28VDC and the charger will overcharge it temporarily. (30(+/-3) VDC (for 737), 33 (+/-4) VDC (for 767))

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Response to sendero (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:17 AM

4. they have ruled that out

looked at the flight data recorder and charging system was performing within specifications.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:02 AM

6. Problem in the testing process?

Maybe they tested the battery initially but failed to dwell on long term usage. Hopefully they'll fix it asap.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:19 AM

7. so are these the batteries for the stupid seat back TVs....? nt

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:12 PM

10. Ironic in a way

The Japanese 787s grounded due to a Japanese battery.

Let the finger pointing commence.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:27 PM

14. Nobody ever talks about their moving to "right to work" state ...

...as a reason. Half of the Dream Liners work is being done in right-to-work South Carolina.

In my state (WA) after being here over 100 years, Boeing hasn't paid a single dime in taxes for almost 2 decades, indeed they actually get money back for "being so nice" as to be an employer. In the 1970s they desecrated Seattle and hold that over the legislator's heads for those tax breaks because it was so devastating. Then after getting all those bennies, they move their offices to Chicago proclaiming it did not mean anything...yeah right sure about six months later and 3 DAYS after 9/11, they lay off 30,000 people crying that they "had to" when in fact they had been planning that for months and using 9/11 as an excuse for it. Soon after that they began to move their plants to South Carolina, a right to work state so they would not have to bother with silly things for their employees like a decent union or health care. South Caroline has good workers, nobody's saying they are not but, why have any loyalty to a company who does not have to pay you a livable wage and they can dump you whenever they do not like the sox you wear (or the color of the skin you are born with)?

Then we wonder why there is shoddy workmanship and they pretend the work was done under fair working conditions never once mentioning that this manufacturing is being done in a non-union dump.

A Boeing neighbor who is a dummass Tea Partier and hates his union (SPEAA) was going to transfer in a huff to SC because finally, why he was going to work in the "right" atmosphere. It was all I could do to stifle a laugh when he decided against it. He discovered would lose his decent health care (along with his college age daughter who needed it for his grandson), seniority was gone, the cost of living was not that much better for the cut in wages he would have gotten, and the schools suck for his younger kids. He thinks he is "poor" because he "only" makes $100,000 a year and it is "all the union's fault" he cannot go to SC because see, "they did not care about "those white people" when in fact the union CAN'T go there.

GAWD sometimes I want to scream ....

Cat in Seattle

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Response to mntleo2 (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:26 AM

17. That's because this problem is with a japanese battery.

It wouldn't matter if it was built in SC or WA, it would still have the same battery and the same problem.

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