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Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:31 PM

Actor Jackie Chan calls U.S. ‘most corrupt’ country in the world

Source: The Raw Story

Hong Kong action hero Jackie Chan has once again provoked criticism, this time from an American blogger, after suggesting on Chinese television that the US is the “most corrupt” country in the world.

“When you talk about corruption — the whole world, is there corruption in the United States? The most corrupt in the world!” the Rush Hour star, who has made headlines recently for his controversial views, told Phoenix TV last month.

Chan reaffirmed his view after the show’s host questioned him — “Of course! Where did the great breakdown come from? The world, the United States started it,” Chan said, referring to the financial crisis and gesticulating as he spoke.

His comments were rebuked Thursday by Max Fisher, a foreign affairs blogger for the Washington Post, who called them “anti-American” rhetoric that was rooted in China’s insecurity.

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/12/actor-jackie-chan-calls-u-s-most-corrupt-country-in-the-world/

114 replies, 12817 views

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Reply Actor Jackie Chan calls U.S. ‘most corrupt’ country in the world (Original post)
Tripper11 Jan 2013 OP
Ken Burch Jan 2013 #1
DJ13 Jan 2013 #13
Flatpicker Jan 2013 #2
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #5
NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #6
KoKo Jan 2013 #17
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #21
wtmusic Jan 2013 #22
KoKo Jan 2013 #23
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #34
heaven05 Jan 2013 #105
plethoro Jan 2013 #41
A Little Weird Jan 2013 #32
cheapdate Jan 2013 #57
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #60
antigone382 Jan 2013 #63
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #64
antigone382 Jan 2013 #67
newthinking Jan 2013 #73
cheapdate Jan 2013 #65
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #66
cheapdate Jan 2013 #71
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #72
cheapdate Jan 2013 #74
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #76
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #96
cheapdate Jan 2013 #110
Flatpicker Jan 2013 #48
MattSh Jan 2013 #88
heaven05 Jan 2013 #106
burnsei sensei Jan 2013 #3
47of74 Jan 2013 #7
Catherina Jan 2013 #10
freshwest Jan 2013 #44
newthinking Jan 2013 #77
awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #81
MattSh Jan 2013 #89
Enrique Jan 2013 #4
cprise Jan 2013 #80
wtmusic Jan 2013 #8
KoKo Jan 2013 #18
wtmusic Jan 2013 #25
Ed Suspicious Jan 2013 #9
closeupready Jan 2013 #15
Fuddnik Jan 2013 #11
roguevalley Jan 2013 #12
KoKo Jan 2013 #19
wtmusic Jan 2013 #26
roguevalley Jan 2013 #35
newthinking Jan 2013 #78
closeupready Jan 2013 #14
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #16
onehandle Jan 2013 #20
cbrer Jan 2013 #24
fujiyama Jan 2013 #27
FrodosPet Jan 2013 #28
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #30
KoKo Jan 2013 #33
FrodosPet Jan 2013 #46
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #50
closeupready Jan 2013 #68
Brigid Jan 2013 #29
Neoma Jan 2013 #31
KoKo Jan 2013 #38
Mr.Bill Jan 2013 #36
Douglas Carpenter Jan 2013 #37
KoKo Jan 2013 #39
Douglas Carpenter Jan 2013 #45
ReRe Jan 2013 #40
aquart Jan 2013 #42
Tutonic Jan 2013 #43
Democratopia Jan 2013 #47
Jamaal510 Jan 2013 #49
indepat Jan 2013 #51
MADem Jan 2013 #52
NorthCarolina Jan 2013 #54
MADem Jan 2013 #55
NorthCarolina Jan 2013 #56
MADem Jan 2013 #84
MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #53
zentrum Jan 2013 #58
KT2000 Jan 2013 #59
FrodosPet Jan 2013 #86
KT2000 Jan 2013 #112
jmondine Jan 2013 #61
Festivito Jan 2013 #75
eShirl Jan 2013 #62
still_one Jan 2013 #69
still_one Jan 2013 #70
rrneck Jan 2013 #79
Kaleva Jan 2013 #82
Proletariatprincess Jan 2013 #83
alp227 Jan 2013 #85
davidthegnome Jan 2013 #87
melody Jan 2013 #90
darkangel218 Jan 2013 #91
Nanjing to Seoul Jan 2013 #92
bubbayugga Jan 2013 #93
xoom Jan 2013 #94
Jennicut Jan 2013 #95
lunatica Jan 2013 #97
madrchsod Jan 2013 #98
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #99
Madmiddle Jan 2013 #100
cantbeserious Jan 2013 #101
Bradical79 Jan 2013 #102
panzerfaust Jan 2013 #103
heaven05 Jan 2013 #104
BigDemVoter Jan 2013 #107
Cal33 Jan 2013 #109
L0oniX Jan 2013 #108
worldbfree Jan 2013 #111
grantcart Jan 2013 #113
Cha Jan 2013 #114

Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:32 PM

1. He's probably right, and we need to do something about it.

Getting huffy and defensive serves no purpose.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:59 PM

13. Sure it serves a purpose

It deflects from the subject and makes Jackie the subject.

Our media wouldnt have it any other way.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:39 PM

2. Sad to say

He's probably right.

And I say that loving this country. We have to clean house at the banker, lobbyist, politician, and CEO levels.

So, It'll never happen.

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Response to Flatpicker (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:48 PM

5. Corruption goes well beyond just the financial sector...

So, no, he's not probably right. If anyone believes the U.S. is more corrupt than, say, North Korea ... maybe they should go live there. I know that sounds like a reactionist response - but seriously. The U.S. might be the most financially corrupt nation - but in terms of overall corruption? It ain't even close. You've got nations out there who will send you, your family and everyone you've come in contact with to labor camps just for speaking out ... if they don't kill ya'. You've got nations out there that censor everything on the internet, including China, a country that has constantly been immune from Chan's attacks.

The U.S. is corrupt in some degree, yes, but that doesn't make 'em the most corrupt nation on earth.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:50 PM

6. I agree. Not even close overall.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:16 PM

17. You Say:

"I know that sounds like a reactionist response - but seriously. The U.S. might be the most financially corrupt nation - but in terms of overall corruption? It ain't even close. "


Have you ever thought about how the US and GB lead World Corruption? After the Global Meltdown and us sending our Manufacturing to China where our "Global Leaders" like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs OFFSHORED our TECH BOOM to CHINA?

And what about Poppy Bush and Korea?

Well....I wonder if you've thought about that and more that I won't even bother to post...because you know.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:30 PM

21. I've thought about a lot of stuff...

But none of that is relative to my point, so I'll just dismiss it because it doesn't refute anything I've said. Corruption is much deeper than just financial and economic - though, China has us beat there too. The point is - if America is so corrupt, and THE most corrupt nation on earth, then go experience life in North Korea or China or Iran and then we'll talk about true, overall corruption.

Yeah, I get it. America is the bogeyman. The evil country that squashes your rights, ruined the global economy and is just the Great Satan. But you wanna know how I know America is not the most corrupt nation on earth? Because you're free to say that without any blowback from the government. No goons are going to break down your door and take you and your family to some labor camp because you dared criticize the government.

Now that's corruption.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:35 PM

22. +1

The worst government in the world, except when compared to all most others.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:43 PM

23. I'm sorry ...you must be addressing your views to someone who is a Democrat

Last edited Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:34 PM - Edit history (1)

and has been all their life. ...who actually lived long enough to know what's going on.

I feel I'm addressing a person who doesn't realize what our MIC/CIA/FBI has done to work against American's Civil Rights for Decades.

I'm a 60's Person whose been around. Maybe you are too young to know and to have read the revelations about what our Government has done in "THE PEOPLES NAME" that has been exposed by reputable sources...(always after the fact, unfortunately)

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Response to KoKo (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:12 PM

34. You're just ranting now.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #34)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 10:44 AM

105. but, but????

it's a true rant, american pie.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:22 PM

41. You are right as rain. Three decades left...

 

that's it.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:10 PM

32. I agree with you

There are places where you have to pay somebody off even for mundane transactions and corruption permeates all levels of government. The U.S. has many problems but I don't think we're even in the running for the most corrupt.

However, I do think things are getting worse here and if we continue to let people off the hook for the evil crap they do (which seems to be the trend - Bush, Wall Street, etc.) then things will only get worse.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:29 PM

57. "Now that's corruption."

No, that's oppression, or something like it, but it's not corruption. Corruption is Goldman Sachs essentially writing banking law. That's a corruption of the entire concept of government for the people.

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #57)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:16 PM

60. You don't think there is corruption tied to oppression?

You're kidding, right? Corruption exists in all forms - from violence to brutality to cronyism to banking laws. A corrupt government often oppresses and that's exactly what you see in China and North Korea. But by all means, if you think those nations are less corrupt than ours, go live there.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #60)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:00 PM

63. I get your point, but I do think that there is a distinction between oppression and corruption.

Both are nasty things, both are tied inextricably to power, and it is arguably true that they are correlated (there is likely to be more corruption in oppressive societies, and there is likely to be more oppression in corrupt societies) but they are not synonymous, in my opinion.

As an example, I would say that Puritan New England was oppressive, but not particularly corrupt--while there are certainly ways in which corruption probably occurred, I think that over all, most of the people in power acted out of what they believed to be stringent moral duty. It was undeniably oppressive, however, as evidenced by the expulsion of heretics and the Salem witch trials (and though there are theories that some of the targets of persecution were singled out because of property disputes, I think it is established that most of the people in power genuinely thought they were ridding their communities of a great evil).

Italy, on the other hand, is a highly corrupt culture that does not on its face appear to be particularly oppressive. Now, taking Amanda Knox and other, similar stories into consideration, this doesn't mean that injustices don't occur. But these injustices seem to stem more from irrationality or incompetence than from an outright objective to shut down political opposition or compel the masses to fear those in power.

How does that relate to corruption and the United States? I can't really claim to be an authority on that. I don't really think Jackie Chan can either; it all depends on your understanding of what corruption is; must all corruption be back room deals and subversion of the system for a few in power, or can it be built right into the system to benefit the powerful without even requiring bribery, etc.?

When you consider the power that the U.S. and its businesses have to determine the economic, ecological, and sociocultural future of virtually the entire world--and our seeming disinterest in pursuing that power in a way that respects their desires or even values their fates--can that be seen as a kind of corruption?

I can't say definitively, and I don't ignore that Chan may be speaking from his own prejudices or on behalf of his society's own agenda--but I also won't dismiss his observation out of hand.

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Response to antigone382 (Reply #63)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:12 PM

64. I think America is corrupt. I think most major governments are...

It's hard to be as powerful as we are and not be corrupt. We've been corrupt since our beginnings. It sucks and I'm not advocating it - but I think there are levels of corruption our government has yet to meet (though, I believe we were on course under Bush and the Republicans). Ultimately, when you compare our corruption to many of these nations where there is total power at the top, we come nowhere near that level. North Korea is a corrupt nation from top to bottom - everything about that nation is corrupt. There is nothing redeeming about their government. To me, those nations blow ours away in terms of corruption and ethics and oppression.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #64)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:30 PM

67. I agree with this on one level, and question it on another.

I don't know exactly how to put it into words, but I guess it is essentially a question of scale. North Korea may be more corrupt within its own borders...but beyond that what power (and by extension, what capacity for corruption) does it have? The United States, on the other hand, may not practice corruption in such a way that it affects the lives of American citizens as directly and consistently as does North Korea. But when you consider the sheer reach of U.S. power--and the rather cynical ways in which that power is employed to preserve our short term economic interests--can we really say that the overall scale of corruption is greater in some piddly powerless country like North Korea than it is in the global actions of the United States?

In a global economic system, I don't know that it is appropriate to limit our definition of a state's corruption to only the corrupt activities which actually occurs within that state's borders. So while it might be worse to live in North Korea than it would be to live in America, it would also be worse to live in a country that has been particularly impacted by U.S. power--say Chile, Iraq, Nigeria; when you add up those three and the many others that happen to be in the path of our economic interest, I'd say corruption that originates in the U.S. is at least as frequent and causes at least as much suffering as what occurs in North Korea. That still doesn't necessarily make us the most corrupt nation in the world, but it might put us in the running.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #64)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:17 PM

73. "Corruption" doesn't define cleanly. It looks different and

has different forms in different societies.

I have lived in several countries, one of them considered fairly corrupt. There are ways in which US corruption is less and ways in which it is more nefarious.

I believe the US is still the better country to live in, but mostly due to things that we built in the *past* that continue to pay dividends (like our cleaner environment). But in terms of which corruption has the most capacity and impresses itself on my life, US corruption has a greater daily impact. It has a far greater capabity to build something far worse in the future.

Anyway, those are just my personal observations. But one of the challenges we have is in using old definitions and using comparisons. Fact is, we have a HUGE and serious problem that *will* result in serious tyranny if we don't get things changed.

We may not be the "most" corrupt, but the acceleration rate of corruption and encroachment on civil liberties is extremely fast.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #60)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:14 PM

65. "A corrupt government often oppresses"

You're kidding, right? A corrupt government may be oppressive, but "corruption" and "oppression" have entirely different and unrelated meanings. Your idea of corruption "in all it's forms - from violence to brutality" seems to be so broad and vague that it makes any meaningful discussion of the topic practically impossible.

North Korea? I think you'll find few people who would agree that the North Korean state has any legitimacy whatsoever. North Korea is like a political black hole where concepts like governance and corruption go to die. I'm not sure anything meaningful can be gleaned from talking about corruption in North Korea.

China? Sure. Corruption in China is massive, legendary, real.

But don't discount the United States. You could easily argue that the entire $800 billion TARP bill belongs in the corruption column, and that the $4 billion in annual oil and gas company subsidies belongs there as well.

What about the just-passed, "American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012"?

"The law includes $12.7 billion in tax incentives for multinational companies — such as JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Bank of America Corp. — that have financing operations overseas" - LA Times, 1/10/13

These things are just the tip of the iceberg. China can't play in this league. Not yet.


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Response to cheapdate (Reply #65)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:23 PM

66. I'm not kidding...

I never discounted America's corruption - but this isn't about that. This is about whether or not America is the most corrupt nation on the face of the earth. If anyone believes that, I can't take their views seriously and I believe they're doing doing it to showcase how radically anti-American they can really be ... as if it's some cool game to play.

But like I said, if you find America less corrupt than North Korea or China ... well feel free to try to gain citizenship there and live under the less corrupt governments of Asia. Hell, go to Africa, where corruption is king in a great deal of their countries. Sure, America is not perfect - but damn if I'm going to believe we're the worst of the worst of the worst.

China, North Korea, Iran, are so corrupt that it DOES lead to oppression.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #66)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:44 PM

71. This is getting tiresome...

"Go live somewhere else then if you don't like it!" Brilliant. I heard you the first time.

Other than simply refusing to accept, or even consider that the corruption in the United States in the form of corporate hijacking of the legislative process; the virtual takeover by corporate interests of many of our regulatory agencies; the virtual takeover of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve by a small class of powerful investment bankers, etc., may be corruption on a much larger and grander scale than anything that could be achieved in a million petty briberies in India or China, it would seem that you "got 'nuthin".

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #71)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:05 PM

72. It is, isn't?

It's not about petty bribery, bud. It's about entire governments killing their people because corruption engrosses every inch of that nation. It's about governments who do not provide adequate anything to their people - whether it's food, water, jobs, working conditions, because the government is so corrupt that doing so will eat into their power base. Nations become corrupt because they oppress.

But keep believing America is worse than China in any regard. It goes beyond just petty bribery and gets to the heart of what makes so many third world nations and oppressors so corrupt.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #72)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:25 PM

74. You have a very expansive and malleable definition of corruption, Bud.

It would seem to include all manner of things that have no part of any ordinary understanding of the word's meaning, including oppression, violence, brutality, and poor governance in general. I'm talking about corruption as it's commonly understood in the political sense.

I'm talking about political corruption on a grand and systemic scale that has become all-pervasive to the point where it has silently subsumed a large part of the democratic process and the powers of government in the United States; a rigged, insiders game where, for example, Goldman Sachs shareholders move seamlessly between the Fed, the Treasury, the SEC, and back to Wall Street.

You're talking about something else.

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #74)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:28 PM

76. It's not my fault you're limited on what corruption actually means.

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #74)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:54 AM

96. It is very often a mistake to think that oppression is not done for profit. Rare is the gratutious

oppression, done for the sake of oppressing, because oppression is costly in money and in public image, those who engage in it almost always have a financial or power based reason for the oppression. The violence and brutality are very often tools and tactics used to carry out a corrupt policy and very rarely are such things isolated from corruption.
You do not understand how the two things are symbiotic in nature.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #96)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:47 PM

110. "You do not understand how the two things are symbiotic in nature."

Oh, really? I'm sorry to inform you that your conclusion is incorrect. I might say I'm curious how you arrived at it, but not really.

The topic raised in the OP was about political corruption in the United States.

In the preceding posts, I've talked about certain things that I believe illustrate the nature and form of corruption in the political process in the United States. I highlighted a number of specific examples.

On the other hand, you seem to be having, or trying to have a different conversation that speaks to other questions like, what are some things that are generally associated with corrupt governments, or what are some typical qualities of corrupt governments?

I'm not debating those questions. I was talking about corruption in the United States political process.

What I'm hearing is an argument that the absence of widespread violence and brutality in the United States negates the possibility that systemic corruption may exist on a grand scale, as I've argued it does. The premise would be that corruption can't exist without oppression, violence, and brutality.

If you accept that premise, and I don't, it would follow that to assert that corruption exists is to also assert that oppression, violence, and brutality exist. (Maybe that explains your confusion.)

(on edit: note that rejecting that premise does not exclude the possibility corruption may include oppression, violence, and brutality.)

It's almost surreal to me that the idea that we are facing a serious and profound problem in the United States with corruption of our political process, our government, and government officials would meet with such stiff opposition here on Democratic Underground.

As if the Wall Street bailout, the revolving door between lobbyists and capitol hill, "regulatory capture", Citizens United, the mind-blowing influence of lobbyists and powerful, monied interests on our political process, etc., etc., are inconsequential and the very suggestion that the scale of this corruption rivals anything else in the world is "not serious".

I'm not saying that American style corruption is the same as Chinese corruption. Everyone acknowledges China's corruption. It's in plain view. This quotation from Matt Taibbi gives a nice picture of American style corruption:

"The world's most powerful investment bank (Goldman Sachs) is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money." - Matt Taibbi

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:44 PM

48. Perhaps

I just get the feeling lately that somethings gone very wrong here.



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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 03:59 AM

88. Yeah, but every one of your examples...

the corruption mostly affects those inside the country. I am little affected by corruption in N. Korea and China, except for a slight additional cost to Chinese knick-knacks. And even Chinese corruption likely only affects 1/3 of their population in any given year.

But I think it's safe to say the the corruption in the USA financial system, political system, and corporate system is currently affecting everybody everywhere. Around the world, it shows in the price of fuel, the price of food items, military occupations, drones raining death from the skies, and yes, those inside the corrupted US system have a great role in the corruption that you see in other countries. A large number of countries would automatically be less corrupt if the US would stop meddling in their affairs.

So, if you prefer to measure corruption by how many people's life's are degraded by it, as I do, then the USA is a clear winner.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 11:04 AM

106. but, but

money is power in this country and the world, so with money a person gets away with corruption and our corruption goes way beyond finance. What about bushmonkey and his theft of two elections, the supreme court being involved in a very large manner legitimizing bushmonkeys theft and the next eight years of grief and blood spilled around the world because of darth and bushmonkey. That is well beyond the financial sector, although their orchestration of events is obvious to all but the most extremely dim apologist. Wall street made out like a bandit, the MIC made out like a bandit, receiving trillions of dollars it didn't need. Where you been for the last decade and three years, living under a rock?!!!!: Labor camps? No excuse can take away the corruption evident in all sectors of this culture. Judicial, executive, financial and legislative. Oh, and I forgot the rethug, lobbyist obstructionism, which with the money changing hands is legislative corruption. no brainer.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:46 PM

3. I spent two months in Canada last year.

Came back and my perspective on the U.S. completely changed.
This is the most self-deceived country and society I've ever seen. We've dehumanized each other because we've forgotten what humanity is.
We are unforgiving of frailty.
We glorify strength too much.
Every victim is blamed.
Every "responsible party" refuses to accept responsibility for the lopsided distribution of wealth and good-will.
This is not "anti-American" rhetoric. It is the truth about this society, which fails to function!

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Response to burnsei sensei (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:50 PM

7. I feel the malaise too every time I return

Living in this country I suppose that I got used to the malaise that permeates our society and don't notice it most of the time. But when I go to another country where that malaise is absent it strikes me when I return just how sick our country is.

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Response to burnsei sensei (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:54 PM

10. +1

We had to leave. I just couldn't take it anymore because the sickness isn't just deeply ingrained, it's constantly defended as a healthy virtue. Corrupt, evil and sick.

The saddest thing is watching so many Americans think it's normal because of a lifetime of propaganda and not even noticing as the screws keep getting tighter.

Editing to add that our buddy nation, the UK, is just as stinking rotten and sick, they just put more varnish on it.

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Response to burnsei sensei (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:33 PM

44. I had the same sense when I spent some time there - about 10 years ago. It was in some respects the

America of my youth. I felt relaxed and safe, not as hassled, 40 years ago. A bit of clean countryside and bustling and quiet small towns. It was bliss to me.

It was comparable to how I felt after camping out in state and national parks over 40 years ago, then returning to the city. It became painful to go, since the drive back to town was agony.

I was trapped in making a living and the chances I would ever live there were slim. Even though I've tried and lived in very rural areas, I have always ended up back in town.

We may end up busying ourselves with the entertainments of 'civilization' instead of being who we really want to be, having a sense of belonging. We are kept very busy in our gilded prison. Canadians have found a balance we have not.


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Response to burnsei sensei (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:29 PM

77. It borders on a society wide mental illness

I agree.

Especially what you mentioned about "forgiveness". We talk a lot about "forgiveness" in the US, especially in our churches, but we are extremely unforgiving, and getting more so.

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Response to burnsei sensei (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:48 AM

81. I spent three weeks...

In Montreal in 02. It changed my opinion on a lot of things.

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Response to burnsei sensei (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 04:10 AM

89. I've been out for a long time.

Left September 2005 and returned for a visit June 2006. Driving down the NJ Turnpike, a thought came to my head as clear as day. Man, I don't know this place anymore. And yeah, every one of your observations are true.

I've been gone now an additional 6.5 years. I keep saying I need to come back some time for a visit. I do have a big family in the states. But I find that's not a compelling enough reason.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:47 PM

4. China's insecurity?

says someone who is apparently monitoring what actors worldwide are saying about the U.S.

“To the degree that Chan’s comments were anti-American, they likewise reflect a common Chinese view of the United States, one that is rooted not just in attitudes toward America but in China’s proud but sometimes insecure view of itself,” Fisher said.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:48 PM

80. Excellent point.

And I would be very surprised if he didn't say similar things about corruption in other countries, as "thinking" Americans habitually do.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:51 PM

8. By most definitions, America is not even close to China.

Sure, we have bigtime influence peddling and overt payoffs. When substantial and illegal bribes are uncovered, it's a scandal.

There, bribery is a way of life and the only way to advance in business.

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Response to wtmusic (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:19 PM

18. Well...You've got that RIGHT for sure. "Bribery is a way of life and only way to

advance in business."

You think after what we've seen with Wall Street Bribery, Crookery and Manipulation doesn't exist on a VAST SCALE in the GOOD OLD USA?

(There's a bridge in Brooklyn that needs to be Privatized) I could sell it to you though.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #18)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:45 PM

25. Not even close.

"The Wenzhou crash killed forty people and injured a hundred and ninety-two. For reasons both practical and symbolic, the government was desperate to get trains running again, and within twenty-four hours it declared the line back in business. The Department of Propaganda ordered editors to give the crash as little attention as possible. 'Do not question, do not elaborate,' it warned, on an internal notice. When newspapers came out the next morning, China’s first high-speed train wreck was not on the front page.

<>

Officials and businessmen looked out for each other by organizing themselves into 'protective umbrellas,' a step in what Chinese scholars have termed the 'mafiazation' of the state. By 2007, the China scholar Minxin Pei found that nearly half of all Chinese provinces had sent their chief of transportation to jail for corruption. It was costing China three per cent of its gross domestic product; that would be two hundred billion dollars today—more than the national budget for education. Since then, the opportunities to steal have only diversified. This summer, the Modern Chinese Dictionary, the national authority on language, added a new word: maiguan, 'to buy a government promotion.'

Today, the scale of temptation for members of China’s government is unlike anything encountered in the West. According to Bloomberg News, the richest seventy members of China’s national legislature gained more wealth in one year—2011—than the combined net worth of the United States President, his Cabinet, all the members of Congress, and the Justices of the Supreme Court. Bloomberg went a step further, and reported, in June, that the extended family of China’s incoming President, Xi Jinping, has tens of millions of dollars in real-estate and financial assets. The government has since blocked the Bloomberg Web site."

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/22/121022fa_fact_osnos#ixzz2Ho8y5tk1

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:52 PM

9. This here spade is a spade. n/t

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:06 PM

15. How dare you! It is a soil-moving implement!

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:55 PM

11. If not the most corrupt, pretty darned close.

ALL of our politicians are up for sale, with a very small few excepted.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 05:55 PM

12. he is partly right. It is corrupt but the scale of the problem in China is out of bounds.

try breathing the air there. How many corporations practice slavery as a matter of course with the blind eye of the officials who get kick backs. The president of china has been caught with billions of graft in accounts in relatives names.

He mustn't want to work in pictures here anymore.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:22 PM

19. Our AIR is better because we Shipped Jobs to China...therefore cutting the Air Emissions/

Pollution, Toxic Chemicals vastly BECAUSE our Companies refused to clean up their emissions...so the Solution was to Ship Manufacturing to countries who didn't mind exposing their workers to "non-union standards for workers fought for here in the US for a Century and to allow Chinese Oligarchs to build the polluting factories that cause the smog and pollution that our US Regulations would no longer allow...along with breaking the backs of US WORKERS RIGHTS.

Ship it off and PROFIT and POLLUTE in Someone Else's Homeland!

That's what we did. It was a clever scheme to Wall St. and the 1%. Wasn't it?

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Response to KoKo (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:54 PM

26. I'll agree with you there.

Our hands are hardly clean when we profit from a system which thrives on corruption.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:12 PM

35. i never said it wasn't. but I also know that the desert in china is growing and when

a billion people get hungry enough, oh by say next year, they will come our way. The government of China is by several planetary diameters worse than us. Doesn't make it better. Just makes it true. and if china wasn't a corrupt bastard, they wouldn't allow the exploitation of their people and country by foreigners. That still makes them worse because they do.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:35 PM

78. Also because we create our environmental laws earlier

in our history.

We actually had very polluted air and water before the 70s-80s. But I really doubt we would be able to clean up or environment if we had to create those laws and agencies now. Our system has definitely changed, but fortunately some of our past successes still bear fruit.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:04 PM

14. Many familiar expressions note the irony of those who misdirect

public attention. "Do as I say, not as I do", "Methinks she dost protest too much", etc.

Some of the defensive retorts to Chan's remarks strike me like that.

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Response to closeupready (Reply #14)


Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:24 PM

20. Uh... China? Both Koreas? Vietnam?

Try your own back yard.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:45 PM

24. Perhaps by virtue of the fact

 

That some Americans claim moral superiority without much factual backup. But it's been my experience that the 3 Arab countries I've lived in have much higher incidence of payoffs.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:56 PM

27. Definitely among developed nations we're at the top or close to it

so in that regard he has a point and he's right that corrupting influences allowed Wall Street to buy Congress and weaken regulations. I still don't think the corruption has quite reached endemic levels, as seen in say India and China, where bribes are basically expected for many day-to-day activities (and where it's so bad you can bribe cops to get out of tickets, or bribe instructors to give you a license for something). So the corruption in those countries has become more or less the way of life. The bribes are basically just seen as an added fee or tax.

We shouldn't deny the corruption in this country - from the very top levels and lobbyists basically writing legislation to state and local governments taking kickbacks fairly frequently. Cronyism, a revolving door between the government and industry lobbyists - none of this is uncommon here. So I think the scale is still different.

I'm guessing Chan wanted to get a rise out of people. He makes odd statements like these every once in a while. Either way, most surveys show us somewhere in the bottom half among developed countries regarding corruption.



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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:01 PM

28. 4 words (and a link) for you, Mr Chan

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Response to FrodosPet (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:07 PM

30. Two words

Iraq War.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #30)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:10 PM

33. Four Words..(and there's more but won't press it) Afghanistan, ME Revolution and AFRICOM BASE

Imperial America on our Tax Dollar Reigns!

Third World Countries like China didn't have our AMERICAN HIGH STANDARDS...so it was so easy to exploit China and the rest...like we did with Clothing we buy from Vietnam...(one of our earlier exploits that ended up in disaster...and the jobs we gave to them along with China and now Cambodia (according to my latest female clothing shopping during XMAS Gift Season here in US).

hmpfffft.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #30)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:38 PM

46. Did you read the article?

Not saying there is not corruption in America. I am saying that the corruption at all levels of society in China is bad, and I am sure it blows away ours.

As for militarism and the Iraq War: Give it about 30 to 40 years and get back to me on Chinese expansionism.

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Response to FrodosPet (Reply #46)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:56 PM

50. No, the Iraq war was an example of corruption at the highest levels

Government and the press conspired to give us the Iraq War, arguably the worst foreign policy disaster in American history and it was accomplished through blatant lies.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #30)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:33 PM

68. Was thinking the exact same thing. People died.

Suggesting that corruption here is harmless, in light of that, is unpersuasive.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:02 PM

29. I think Chan overstates his case.

But not by much. Our MIC is completely out of control. Our economy is weak. Our infrastructure is crumbling. Our public education system is little more than a political football. Our health care system is still going to be woefully inadequate even after ACA is fully implemented. Most of our politicians are either clowns or sociopaths, or both. Our financial system is unbelievably corrupt. We are awash in guns. We are not addressing our environmental concerns properly. Same with our clean energy needs. In short, we have serious problems that we are not solving, and we dare not ignore that fact.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #29)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:08 PM

31. 1+

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Response to Brigid (Reply #29)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:14 PM

38. What you say is Obvious...but, you do a "back hand slap at Chan" saying he Overstates

his CASE? WHAT?

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:13 PM

36. I guess he's never heard of Mexico. n/t

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:13 PM

37. I spend half my life criticizing America but that statement is hyperbolic nonsense

Spend a little time in a place like the Philippines or any one of at least a hundred other third world countries and you will see corruption reaching down to unimaginable levels. Kids or kids parents bribing their elementary school teachers to get better grades, paying off bureaucrats and cops accepted as the completely normal way of life in the most routine of matters like getting a drivers license or renewing a visa and it is flat out impossible to operate without doing so. Microcorrruption like this is the norm in over half the world on a scale that would shock any American. Having said that I do think our political process is among the most corrupt of any major developed western democracies. With that I would agree.

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #37)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:15 PM

39. You can't see how close we are getting since (for most part) we Support these Evil Countries

(So Called "Evil Countries" by our MIC/Neo-Cons) in their Corruption by supporting their "Management and keeping our Naval and other powers close to them so we can intervene if DEMOCRACY raises it's head their through Revolution "BY THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE" who we never seem to be able to see our way to support?" It's "GUNS AND BUTTER for the DICTATORS" (and give us your Mining/Mineral Rights and Agricultural Resources) as we troll in their waters and work to undermine their Governments.......I

n your limits and there's ALWAYS the DRONES....the DRONES....are WATCHING AND WAITING. WE OWN THE DRONES....SEE OUR POWER!

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Response to KoKo (Reply #39)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:37 PM

45. guns, dictators and drones are all legitimate criticisms of America ..but the corruption in the

third world is there and is ubiquitous and reaches from the lowest levels of society to the highest levels of society whether under pro-American governments or anti-American governments. In fact the anti-American governments are many times even worse. Societies that operate where the vast majority of people live with a very thin margin of survival and where there is no way for an honest cop, an honest school teacher or an honest bureaucrat to make a living are simply more rife with corruptions - whether right-wing pro-American corruptions or left-wing anti-American corruption. This is the level the vast majority of the world lives and there is no magic solution whether socialism or free markets are are going to fix it any time soon. Perhaps it can be fixed and perhaps conditions that breed corruption can be greatly reduced but there is no magic solution.

I will criticize American imperial policy to my dying day - but I will do so within the realms of reality knowing full well that the single strongest assert American imperialism has is that in most such cases the alternatives to American power are not pretty. There is no struggle between the big bad American imperialist and the peace and freedom loving little indigenous natives - the struggles are almost always between self-serving belligerents who are pursuing their own agenda for their own reasons and American imperial power frequently interferes for its own self-serving reasons and frequently makes matters worse.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:16 PM

40. But....

one, who care's what Jackie Chan says, anyway?

two, who's this Max Fisher, WP blogger who's all up in arms?

three, this sounds like one of those playground "My mamma is better 'n your mamma" quarrels.

four, this might be the wrong website to post this to, as we are pretty much free speech types here.

five, if you think what Jackie Chan says is offending, you must not listen to wingers in this coutry. Talk about Anti-American!

six, but hey, thanks for the post anyway!

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:24 PM

42. Never been to Romania? Russia? China? Seriously?

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:25 PM

43. Yeah, ok, if he said that about China, he wouldn't live through the night. But because

he has guaranteed freedoms in America, he can talk all he wants. The next time a Chinese slave labor camp is featured on the news, or a factory fire consumes the lives of innocents, or a revolutionary is jailed for speaking truth to a fascists government, I'll think of Jackie Chan. He needs to stop it. We know that America is corrupt but China is far more corrupt and deadly.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:42 PM

47. I agree with Jackie Chan if you define "most corrupt" as having the most power through corruption

 

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:50 PM

49. "Most corrupt country in the world" is probably stretching it,

but other than that, he's right. Compared to our neighbors to the north at least, the US of A has a laundry list of problems.

I can think of some things right off the bat: the Patriot Act, the Drug War, most of our media is consolidated and has a conservative slant, gays are still treated as 2nd-class citizens in many states, a political party that has been Hell-bent on keeping top tax rates low, money in politics allows the agendas of a select few to be advertised over those of the common man, health care is treated as a privilege rather than a right, lobbyists here care more about protecting guns than curbing violence, and most Congressional districts have been gerrymandered like crazy.
With Canada I heard they have legalized weed, single-payer health care, stricter gun laws and much lower gun deaths, and they have a law against lying on broadcast news. IDK about everyone else, but that sounds good to me.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:57 PM

51. Republicans in the Legislative Branch of our national government are, as a whole, the most

corrupt entity worldwide imo in the post-WWII era. Of course that's just my opinion.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:59 PM

52. Did his US tax obligation go way, way up?

Or is he just playing to the die-hard fans in the home venue?

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Response to MADem (Reply #52)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:08 PM

54. I think he's simply

pointing out the already obvious for benefit of those who are simply not paying attention.

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Response to NorthCarolina (Reply #54)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:14 PM

55. Well, he's made piles of money off those crummy, corrupt Americans.

I'm wondering if his accountant gave him some bad news, and that primed his pump.

I think he'll probably come to understand that you can't shit where you eat.

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Response to MADem (Reply #55)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:17 PM

56. Honestly, I think his comment will, sadly, be forgotten

by about this time next week.

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Response to NorthCarolina (Reply #56)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 02:13 AM

84. Not if he has a new movie coming out soon.... nt

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:06 PM

53. Hmm

I was under the impression that Mexico was just a weeeee bit more corrupt than the US.
But...I've been wrong before.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:36 PM

58. Our corruption is the most important

Because we militarize our corruption--by engaging in deadly wars and corporate empirism all over the world--changing and/or destroying whole cultures.

Smaller countries may have black market economies and a large drug smuggling trade but they aren't major world bullies.

Also, the fact that you can openly bribe all of Congress and the Supreme Court justifies the bribery creates a national culture of extreme corruption.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:10 PM

59. how else does one explain

a so-called democracy that is owned lock, stock, and barrel by corporations.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #59)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 02:57 AM

86. Are you talking about America or China?

For a brief look at Chinese corruption, check out The New Yorker's article on the high speed rail crash.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/22/121022fa_fact_osnos?currentPage=all

Talk about putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop. The state organization that regulates their railroads also owns them.

China is going to be a big problem for planet Earth in the 21st Century.

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Response to FrodosPet (Reply #86)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 03:09 PM

112. America

It is no secret that China has corruption. Just ask a person from China.
In America, the corruption goes by many different names.
The revolving door has government directors approving things such as GMO products after having served as CEO of said companies, then returning to those jobs after government "service." This is repeated in numerous scenarios.
We call corporate payoffs to politicians free speech.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:32 PM

61. Can't we just pay him to shut the hell up!?

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Response to jmondine (Reply #61)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:26 PM

75. LOL.

That's what branding ones self is all about.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:47 PM

62. He's had a lot of blows to the head over his long career...

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:39 PM

69. I am sorry, but other then curiosity, does it really matter what a so-called celebrity thinks? I

mean, there is nothing that make their opinion better or worse than someone else except their a celebrity, and the "media" believes it is newsworthy

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:41 PM

70. It is a ridiculous statement especially compared to countries such as Sudan, China, etc. Is there

corruption? Sure, but not the worst, and who cares what Jackie Chan thinks about politics anyway?

I also don't care what limpballs, eastwood, and other so-called celebrities politically think either

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:35 PM

79. We're not the most corrupt, but our wealth and power magnify our faults. nt

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:50 AM

82. When Jackie Chan speaks; people listen.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:51 AM

83. How do we know which country is the most corrupt?

We know that the USA has been corrupted at every level and all our institutions have failed us. We know that the USA has a growing acceptance of Police STate oppression. But unless we have lived at least a decade in another country, we really don't have any way to compare it to the USA.
The world changes constantly. The Corporate Media gives us Corporate State Propaganda about those changes.
It troubles me that there are still some (though not as many as there were years ago) who will defend the USA without reservation and make presumptions about other countries about which they don't really have reliable information.
Frankly, I think that Jackie Chan has hidden depths that I hadn't expected.
I also believe that USAmericans need to hear from other nationals that our country has become very corrupt indeed. I don't think that has been made clear enough to our citizens yet.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 02:38 AM

85. He's damn right!

(WTF you can't type in Chinese on DU titles???? I tried got a bunch of gibberish. But I'd like to say: 陈先生, 你真棒啊!

Of course, China never pretended to be the icon of freedom & democracy America is. America is corrupt yet markets itself as the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 03:31 AM

87. Our celebrity obsession could be taken as an example of why

we're so corrupt. Rather than admiring or honoring the real heroes in our Country, we tend to fall head over heels in love with our favorite celebrities - whether they're actors, politicians, or athletes. It often strikes me that few people here are content to just be themselves, so they sort of live vicariously through others. It doesn't matter what they do wrong - provided they do SOME things right. (The point being, we let them get away with worse than murder, because our lives are so dreadful we get some kind of inner boost from their success)

Nothing makes Jackie Chan's opinion terribly valid as opposed to anyone else. Sure, we're unbelievably corrupt on a financial level, the rot is so deep I'm not sure it even could be all cut out. We've had opportunity after opportunity to turn things around and we still keep playing by the rules of the corporations and wealthy individuals. We love and applaud "job creators", most of whom hire a great deal more labor over seas than here in America. We permit this absurd tax relief to companies that are seeing record profit, we let the big boys and girls keep their millions of dollars in bonuses (even after committing fraud that lead to a global economic crisis) and we don't scream much about it, other than a few of us "whacky liberals" over at DU.

There is something fundamentally wrong with American society... is it superficiality? Greed? Perhaps apathy? I don't know, I just know that it's far from the Country I read about in my history books. My Grandfathers believed they lived in the greatest Nation on earth - how many Americans honestly believe that now?

Hell yes we have issues. The thing is, China has even more of them. Jackie is free to criticize and condemn all he likes, but he should consider the flaws of his own Country while he's pointing out ours. If he's a real advocate for change, for justice... then he'll be equal in his condemnation of all very corrupt Countries, which certainly includes China.

If the best defense we have though, is to say: "Hey, China is even MORE corrupt!" It's a damn sorry state of affairs. Whether they are or not, the point, I think, is that we have reached a despicable level of corruption - though we don't need Mr. Chan to point that out to us. Anyone who's not fast asleep knows.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 04:24 AM

90. Then why doesn't he give back all that filthy Yankee money?

Oh, that's right, he spent it.

I guess the corrupt are the best at recognizing corruption.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 04:50 AM

91. He's sooo wrong!

There are so many other countries who rank FAR higher on the coruption scale.. He's probably pissed because perheps one of his Hollywood deals didn't go as well. What a jerk to say that about the US!! Hey Jackie, without the US you'd be been a nobody!

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 06:52 AM

92. Chen Long, I live in China. Glass houses, buddy.

 

How many government official here in China have their hands in the cookie jar? Trust me, pal. . .it's just as big a percentage as the US.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 07:25 AM

93. Corrupt? absolutely. Most corrupt in the world? hard to say for sure. We're up there I'm sure.

 

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 07:30 AM

94. Im sure there are countries out there who could give our government a run for their money..

 

But we may be the largest of them all and have more power worldwide.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:50 AM

95. The level of political corruption in Russia is nothing

Compared to here. It's like us on steroids. The press is made to shut up. Murder is not unusual for speaking out. And in the Ukraine. And in third world countries and in many countries in Africa and the middle east. Try entire police forces full of corruption that look the other way, especially regarding crimes against women. America has it's issues and it is prettty damn corrupt. Sadly, it is not even close to being the worst.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 09:17 AM

97. I don't know about the US being the most corrupt

That's like saying it's just a little pregnant. Corrupt is corrupt. Once there what stops it from becoming more and more corrupt? Nothing. But for anyone to deny that this country is corrupt is really ignorant.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 09:43 AM

98. by population china,russia,india,and the usa are the most corrupt

jackie did`t want to piss off his government....

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 09:45 AM

99. Jackie has opinions I do not share. Also, his rhetoric changes with the day...

"In the 10 years after Hong Kong's return to Chinese rule, I can gradually see, I'm not sure if it's good to have freedom or not. If you're too free, you're like the way Hong Kong is now. It's very chaotic. Taiwan is also chaotic. I'm gradually beginning to feel that we Chinese need to be controlled. If we're not being controlled, we'll just do what we want."

He also helped oppress demonstrators around the Olympics. Said demonstrators seeking to point out human rights abuses were just publicity seekers. Said he'd attack any who demonstrated while he had the torch.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 09:58 AM

100. Our government gave money to banks that illegally

put homeowners out on the street, even when they have known of fraudulent bank practices for a long time. They gave loans with interest rates so low that the average American could never hope for, instead of helping mainstreet, they backed the crooks in otherwords. Chan may not have been completely right, but he wasn't completely wrong either. If people in this country would look at the United States through foreign eyes they would see this country as a corrupt bunch of assholes. Why do you think Occupy Wall Street came about?

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 10:05 AM

101. I'd Say Jackie Is On To Something There

eom

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 10:21 AM

102. Jackie Chan should probably take a look in the mirror.

He's pretty corrupt himself and so is his country.

And I doubt you'd find a more corrupt government than their neighbor North Korea.

But among nations actually actively involved in the international scene, on certain issues, I'd say we certainly are up there in corruption. When taking a good hard look at our major corporations, our war on drugs, our foreign aid, and our military/economic allies, we not only have some seriously corrupt institutions but also actively fund corruption in numerous foreign countries.

There's a lot in our country that needs fixed, but Jackie Chan certainly doesn't help. He's just a propagandist these days looking to deflect criticisms of his own nation. He could care less about actually shinning a light on corruption and making the world a better place.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 10:29 AM

103. "His comments were rebuked ..." Sigh.

 

Chan's comments may have been disputed, criticized, refuted - or any of another of many appropriate words - but the were not "rebuked."

One recognizes (formerly 'recognises') that words change in both spelling and meaning. Yet, at any given moment in time, a word has a generally accepted meaning. "Rebuked" does not convey what one takes to be the intended meaning of this writer.

If one expects to have one's arguments seriously considered, one should take the trouble to use the correct words to convey one's meaning. If someone cannot be troubled to express their{1} argument using the correct words, I admit that my psychological makeup is such that, a priori, I will have more trouble accepting the conclusions of that argument.

I do myself dispute Chan's remarks.

There is no question that ours is an extremely corrupt country; however, there is also no question that we do not evidence the same degree of systemic corruption as do Russia, India and - yes - China.

However I would not presume to rebuke him.



{1} I will go to the mat on this increasingly common epicene usage of "their" as singular.

"His" leaves out approximately one-half of humanity. "His or Her" or the inverse "Her or His," and the many contractions of this, and the various proposed neologisms to replace the grammatical "he/his" fall not lightly on the ear.

After all, such usage was good enough for Bill:

There's not a man I meet but doth salute me
As if I were their well-acquainted friend


- The Comedy of Errors, Act IV, Scene 3



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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 10:40 AM

104. well

Jackie, I don't know if it's the most corrupt, but it is right up there in the TOP few of the list of most corrupt. Max can rebuke all he want to, the truth hurts, don't it Maxie? Thou protesteth too much, Maxie.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 11:15 AM

107. While I'm always quick to jump on whatever faults we may have. . . .

This is really hyperbole. . . . there are so many countries that are more corrupt--Pakistan, Greece, Iraq, Afganistan. . . . to name only a few. . .

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Response to BigDemVoter (Reply #107)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 11:31 AM

109. If the numbers of people in the entire world affected by our corruption is considered a factor,

just read msgs. 17 and 23 by Koko in this thread. This, I think, is what he is trying to point out. The small nations wouldn't even be in the picture - the damage that they do is very limited.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 11:17 AM

108. I would add "the most hypocritical" to that.

"A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defence
than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death." Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 01:36 PM

111. All the corrupt rulers that the US has put into power

and the oppression they have invoked on millions in many countries all over the world must be included then in this silly argument over who has the most corrupt government. Also, since we taxpayers pay to prop up these evil murderers to keep us fat and happy here in the USA, we in a way kind of out-source a lot of our corruption so we can get our electronics, food and gas nice and cheap without taking the responsibility for all the death and destruction that occur when foreign governments push back against American Imperialism and simply wish to control their own natural resources. I think Jackie Chan may have been referring to the overall magnitude of US corruption globally , not just withing each individual country. North Korea is not anywhere close to Americas overall corruption on a global scale. Saying "at least we can speak out and not get killed for it here in the USA" , as an argument for America not being the more corrupt than North Korea is a great way to fool people and make people feel better about themselves but it only works if you can keep people as distracted and thus unaware of the atrocities the USA has brought upon entire civilizations from the destruction of the Native American civilizations and stealing their lands, to dropping two nuclear bombs on the Japanese and then using it,(Nuclear Weapons), along with the CIA and the rest of the MIC to threaten and punish any country that does not hand over its resources to American Interests/Corporations owned by a few wealthy powerful families. I know many other countries do many bad things too but the tentacles of American corruption are spread around the world oppressing possibly more people than China and by far much more than North Korea.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 03:36 PM

113. Well that's obviously not close to being true.


We are in the top 12 but not the top.

Even among major developed democratic countries the US isn't the "most corrupt".

That would almost certainly have to be Japan.

In Japan MPs are expected to send a wedding gift and floral gift to every wedding and funeral in their district, which alone would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Japanese anti corruption laws are openly flaunted and almost never prosecuted.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/politics-corruption.htm

I would say that America's campaign contribution/buy a Congressman legal mechanism is by far the worlds' most hypocritical big time corruption scheme, and in the hypocrisy category no one comes close.

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Response to Tripper11 (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 04:26 PM

114. Sounds like Jackie is trying to

endear himself to the Chinese Govt.

Course, if he'd like to give the Kochs et al lessons on how not to be corrupt.. I say.. "have at it, Jackie Chan.

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