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Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:05 PM

Democrats pull plug on gun, ammo bans

Source: Quad-City Times

SPRINGFIELD — There’s not enough support in the Illinois Senate to impose tough new restrictions on semiautomatic weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips.

In a setback for gun-control advocates in the wake of the killings of school children in Connecticut, the Illinois Senate was poised to adjourn Thursday without voting on two pieces of legislation aimed at limiting access to certain kinds of weapons and bullets.

Although the two proposals could emerge again when the legislature reconvenes next week, the lack of action shows the General Assembly remains divided on how to balance Second Amendment issues.

A spokeswoman for Senate President John Cullerton, D-Chicago, offered no timetable for when the gun safety proposals might surface again.

Read more: http://qctimes.com/news/state-and-regional/illinois/democrats-pull-plug-on-gun-ammo-bans/article_32f17fc4-55db-11e2-a7a7-001a4bcf887a.html



If this can't make it through the Illinois legislature, with a majority Democrats, why does anyone think we stand a chance of getting anything similar through the US House of Representatives?

Let's just pray this doesn't turn into 1994 all over again.

53 replies, 9471 views

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Arrow 53 replies Author Time Post
Reply Democrats pull plug on gun, ammo bans (Original post)
NickB79 Jan 2013 OP
slackmaster Jan 2013 #1
Hoyt Jan 2013 #3
slackmaster Jan 2013 #4
Hoyt Jan 2013 #7
JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2013 #10
-..__... Jan 2013 #23
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #21
Hoyt Jan 2013 #22
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #24
bobclark86 Jan 2013 #25
Hoyt Jan 2013 #29
slackmaster Jan 2013 #35
Hoyt Jan 2013 #36
slackmaster Jan 2013 #44
sir pball Jan 2013 #46
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #40
geomon666 Jan 2013 #2
donnasgirl Jan 2013 #32
duhneece Jan 2013 #50
napi21 Jan 2013 #5
slackmaster Jan 2013 #8
Flatulo Jan 2013 #18
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #33
Freddie Stubbs Jan 2013 #43
Scootaloo Jan 2013 #9
Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2013 #12
Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2013 #11
Great Caesars Ghost Jan 2013 #6
NickB79 Jan 2013 #13
Great Caesars Ghost Jan 2013 #19
jody Jan 2013 #14
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #28
jody Jan 2013 #31
Hoyt Jan 2013 #30
sir pball Jan 2013 #47
Hoyt Jan 2013 #49
sir pball Jan 2013 #51
triplepoint Jan 2013 #15
PatrynXX Jan 2013 #16
maindawg Jan 2013 #17
and-justice-for-all Jan 2013 #20
Remmah2 Jan 2013 #26
Kolesar Jan 2013 #27
ranger1 Jan 2013 #34
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #48
Doctor_J Jan 2013 #37
truthisfreedom Jan 2013 #38
Doctor_J Jan 2013 #39
truthisfreedom Jan 2013 #45
Kolesar Jan 2013 #42
dudemocrat Jan 2013 #53
Ash_F Jan 2013 #41
dudemocrat Jan 2013 #52

Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:07 PM

1. Kabuki Theater as government

 

The Illini aren't quite as good at is as the leaders in San Francisco, but they're definitely professionals.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:09 PM

3. I guess gun cultists in Gungeon are dancing a jig in celebration.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:11 PM

4. Too bad you're not permitted to join in the festivities

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:16 PM

7. Much prefer to post with other anti-gun DUers and not deal with denizen of Gungeon.


Proud to have been banned by pro-gun toting host, who allowed RDigital back in gun group only to see him banished. LMAO on that one. Say hello to those who can't venture out of their house without a gun in their pants. Ask them to actually act responsible during 2013 and stop adding more guns to the nation's weapons cache, and opposing rational gun laws that might not be to their gun loving liking.

Enjoy your lethal weapons and jig with your buddies. http://www.democraticunderground.com/117299682

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:18 PM

10. Nah, the Gungeon is too small to dance in

but there's plenty of room and dance partners in LBN and GD these days.

Eventually, gun posts will be herded back into the Gungeon, but not yet.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:42 PM

23. Nah... there's plenty of room to dance if you know the right moves...

 







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Response to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:45 PM

21. Not particularly.

This sort of reactionary bullshit makes it harder to actually pass meaningful, impactful gun reform, like opening up NICS to public access, so people can do a background check for a private transfer, or registration that carries benefits, rather than penalties, so we can stem the flow of straw purchases and unlawful transfers.

You mistake some 'gungeoneers' as being entirely opposed to ANY regulation at all, and consequently, well, like the Illinois bill, results in nothing getting done.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:37 PM

22. Right thus minute any "responsible" gun seller can use a licensed gun dealer for background

Last edited Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)

check. But most private sellers don't give a crud who they sell to as long as they get a fistful of cash. The NICS should not be opened for abuse by public.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:47 PM

24. What does 'abuse by the public' mean?

Why should I, as a private seller, have to pay some 3rd party intermediary?

(I don't actually sell guns, it's a rhetorical question. The law only requires people not to KNOWINGLY sell to an ineligible buyer)

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:00 PM

25. Actually... no

You have to sell it to the dealer and then they sell it to the new owner. You really can't just show up and say "One NICS check, please."

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:15 PM

29. Absolutely not true. You let them handle the transfer and pay a relatively small fee.


But, gun sellers really aren't as law-abiding or moral is we are told.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:58 PM

35. No, only Delaware, Nevada, and Oregon provide for voluntary background checks in private transfers

 

It's required in California and several other states, and in those states (and DC) the specific procedures and even acceptable prices are regulated by state law.

In most states there is no established process for having a dealer handle a transfer from one non-licensee to another. Because there is no standard way of handling it, bobclark86's statement would apply.

http://smartgunlaws.org/private-sales-policy-summary/

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:05 PM

36. Then do it from FFL to another FFL if you really care about who gets your gun. Geeeez you guys


have a million rationales for being an unethical/immoral/irresponsible gun owner.

I bet most of you are quite cozy with your local gun shop owner.

I know for a fact a number of Gugeoneers are gun profiteers with licenses, so get real and stop acting like son (arrested for road rage shooting) of NRA Prez David Keene.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #36)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 09:41 AM

44. How about amending federal law so that NICS is available for use by non-licensees?

 

There's no reason to bring FFL holders into every transaction.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #36)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:00 AM

46. If you'll let us fix the price..

Some FFLs are decent people and ask for a reasonable fee. I've done that. And some are usurious bastards - when I lived in PA I was looking at buying a rifle online; a friend's father was a dealer and he was willing to "cut me a break" on his usual transfer rates; he'd knock the $50 flat fee off and only charge me the 15% of sale price. On an $800 rifle. I took a pass on that one and just picked up something else at a local shop. I mean, I suspect YOU'D be fine with an exorbitant transfer fee, since it would discourage sales (or push them off the radar but I digress), but for 5 minutes' work on the FFLs part I'm not willing to pay more than $20.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #29)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:55 AM

40. The sun is up, therefore aliens wear purple pants.

Your point about the ability to pay a FFL to handle the transfer is not relevant to your quip about 'law abiding'.

Moral is a moving target. Since private transfers are totally legal in most states, the only time I would contest that as immoral, is if the seller knowingly sells to an ineligible recipient. (Also illegal).

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:08 PM

2. Profits trump Human Life n/t

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Response to geomon666 (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:27 PM

32. That goes

For every aspect of life my friend,look at your government(WAR IS MIGHTY BIG BUSINESS)

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Response to donnasgirl (Reply #32)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 01:15 PM

50. Until enough of us stand up and say, "No more"

I hope enough of us are gaining a voice at the table and are saying, "no more" to current conditions. I don't think any of us think we can stop all gun deaths, but we can do many things to reduce them, if we stand together and say "no more" valuing the right for anyone to own the kinds of guns & ammo they do now over the rights of innocents.

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:11 PM

5. Can I assume those legislators KNOW that Chicago has the highest

murder rate in the US? Maybe they just don't read the paper or watch TV!

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Response to napi21 (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:17 PM

8. Did you know that the second-largest city in Illinois had NO murders in 2012?

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:26 PM

18. "... Massive sweeps on gang members ... "

"The homicide rate in Aurora peaked in the 1990s, with a high of 26 murders in 1995 and 1996, reports the Sun-Times. Massive sweeps on gang members and drug dealers helped narrow the rate to two murders in 2011."

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:33 PM

33. Meanwhile East St Louis is the most dangerous city in America and Chicago comes in 79th

 

www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/top100dangerous/

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 08:51 AM

43. Must be the Public Access TV

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Response to napi21 (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:17 PM

9. Do they regard the victims as fully human, though? Or just 3/5ths?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:21 PM

12. Ah! so you've visited our fair state?

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Response to napi21 (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:20 PM

11. I suspect this is just something they'd rather not or can not push through during a lameduck session

I imagine we'll see it again.

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:14 PM

6. I'm telling ya, the only way for true anti gun regulation is a constitution convention.

 

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Response to Great Caesars Ghost (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:22 PM

13. Yeah, that would be simple

You'll need over 35 states to ratify a change to the US Constitution. Do you really think it would even be close to that at this point?

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:32 PM

19. I just say it is the only way

 

Never said it was easy

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Response to Great Caesars Ghost (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:23 PM

14. Rights preexist our Constitution and do not depend upon it. States acknowledge they're unalienable &

 

that means We the People cannot give them away.

Individuals for whom those rights are recognized as natural and inherent have compromised with Society by accepting limited infringement for the benefit of society but not infringement to the point of prohibition of an individual's right.

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Response to jody (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:13 PM

28. Yeah God gave out guns and ammunition!

 

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:18 PM

31. You use "God gave". Do you believe God is the source of all rights enumerated and unenumerated in

 

our Constitution?

Perhaps you argue those rights don't exist?

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Response to Great Caesars Ghost (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:16 PM

30. Wait until one of right wingers on Supreme Court are gone and start flooding them with new cases.


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Response to Hoyt (Reply #30)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:12 AM

47. Except even then the lower courts

Will respect stare decisis for the time being. Of course it's not unheard of, nor even especially uncommon, for the courts to overturn precedent - but it's not a quick process. Off the top of my head I think the shortest flip was around fifteen years, and it tends to be a lot longer. And even then, you'll have to find a series of courts that are willing to disregard what's becoming a wider precedent, and then a Court that's willing to take the case. I'm not a prognosticator, it's a perfectly reasonable assumption to say that it may very well pan out that way...but not in the next ten years or so. The judiciary isn't as flexible as you'd like.

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Response to sir pball (Reply #47)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 01:10 PM

49. Doesn't take much to overturn a case where even Scalia says restrictions/regulations are A-OK.


Besides, do you see Chicago and DC doing anything in response to Heller and McDonald.

They were pretty flexible in ACA case.

Besides, the best way is to change how guns are viewed in this country. Make guns like smelly cigars, fur coats, discrimination, swastikas, confederate flags, pollution, and the like.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #49)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 01:24 PM

51. Except it was never about restrictions, and yes

I see Chicago and DC allowing private possession of handguns; licensing, registration and no carry are fine but prohibition of possession isn't. I haven't seen any challenges at any level to regulations and in light of Heller/McDonald I don't see any forthcoming. I think (legally, not in the discussion here) there's a certain detente in the debate right now - restrictions, even pretty strict ones, are acceptable, but categorical bans, and legal wrangling designed to make legal possession impossible, are out.

Rational discussion can only come after both sides accept the realities - you aren't going to get Heller overturned, and they aren't going to get licensing/reg/&c thrown out. Course, I see hell freezing over before anybody on either side accepts that.

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:28 PM

15. I Hope the Federal Ban on Assault Weapons Doesn't Go This Route

 

There's supposed to be a bill and a committee for reinstating the ban on Assault Weapons now happening in the Senate. Not sure about the House bill for the same. Maybe we'll see the ban also include the sale of ammunition for these murder weapons.

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:58 PM

16. Not really a surprise.

as Dems are not anti gun. NRA has way too much power. as far as scaring people. Even if they don't give a shit about their own paying members

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:02 PM

17. I told you

we are a good 4 or 5 mass murders away from actual gun regs.

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:33 PM

20. sad..nt

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:03 PM

26. Crash and Burn

 

Firearm owning DEMOCRATS making a difference.

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:05 PM

27. Typical fucked comments by the circling hyenas, we see...eom

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:53 PM

34. Democrats pull plug on gun, ammo bans

 

Leave the guns alone!!! Treat Mental Illness!

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Response to ranger1 (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 12:41 PM

48. Welcome to DU!

I hope you enjoy your stay.

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:52 PM

37. Looks like LaPierre's psychotic rant didn't reduce the NRA's power

I think at some point the sane people will get fed up with the worst of the worst - Hate Radio, Fox "News", the NRA - and start targeting all of these terrorist organizations.

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:57 PM

38. I've discussed these types of bans at length with people who watched the results of the previous

assault rifle ban, and they told me that it's useless. The high-capacity magazines simply sell out whenever this type of legislation comes up and then there's even more of them on the street being sold at gun shows and privately. The assault weapon bans just lead to more innovation by gun makers to get around the rules. Everything related to restriction of these weapons leads to paranoia and more sales. It's horrible.

The answer to gun violence in schools is to use a combination of safety measures... perhaps bulletproof entry door "airlocks" with metal detectors that lock entrants inside until they can be cleared through bulletproof lexan windows. Perhaps schoolroom doors that can be released by electromagnets like elevator-area fire doors are now, and panic rooms available throughout the hallways for kids and teachers trapped outside classrooms after they lock.

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Response to truthisfreedom (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:44 PM

39. Maybe we should just auto-lock all the doors during class periods

and then open them for passing periods. Seriously, I like your idea of turning all the schools into prisons...it's sort of like Loony LaPete's solution, only not as expensive, and doesn't create any jobs.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #39)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 09:56 AM

45. There's nothing about my idea that turns schools into prisons.

It's no different than many schools already operate, with locked outer doors, and it confines gun toters so that they can only hurt themselves. The idea of being able to remotely lock classroom doors during emergencies and providing panic rooms is in no way even remotely the same as a prison. Your attitude is unwarranted and your post is abusive.

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Response to truthisfreedom (Reply #38)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 08:05 AM

42. Was your discussion group on ethanol or tolulene? ... eom

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Response to truthisfreedom (Reply #38)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:15 PM

53. Yep

 

I absolutely agree 100%. You are an informed person. Seems to be a lot of people here who dream that they can collect everyone's guns and the World will become a beautiful utopia.

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:01 AM

41. Politicians are always two steps behind the will of the people.

Give it time.

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 01:54 PM

52. What about MY guns?

 

I'm a staunch liberal, a former Marine, I've always had guns and never felt the desire to kill anyone or anything, but living in L.A. and with the numbers of home invasions, rape and murders having risen exponentially over the past few decades, there is no way I'm going to be unarmed when someone breaks my door down to kill me and my family. The gangs have all the most lethal weapons and I'm not allowed to purchase or own them here legally, so the fight is disproportionate from the get-go. Now the government wants to hand me rubberbands. I don't understand people who don't get that.

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