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Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:41 AM

Icelandic girl fights government over right to use her name; only ‘approved’ names allowed

Source: Washington Post

A 15-year-old is suing the Icelandic state for the right to legally use the name given to her by her mother. The problem? Blaer, which means “light breeze” in Icelandic, is not on a list approved by the government.

Like a handful of other countries, including Germany and Denmark, Iceland has official rules about what a baby can be named. In a country comfortable with a firm state role, most people don’t question the Personal Names Register, a list of 1,712 male names and 1,853 female names that fit Icelandic grammar and pronunciation rules and that officials maintain will protect children from embarrassment. Parents can take from the list or apply to a special committee that has the power to say yea or nay.

In Blaer’s case, her mother said she learned the name wasn’t on the register only after the priest who baptized the child later informed her he had mistakenly allowed it.

“I had no idea that the name wasn’t on the list, the famous list of names that you can choose from,” said Bjork Eidsdottir, adding she knew a Blaer whose name was accepted in 1973. This time, the panel turned it down on the grounds that the word Blaer takes a masculine article, despite the fact that it was used for a female character in a novel by Iceland’s revered Nobel Prize-winning author Halldor Laxness.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/icelandic-girl-fights-government-over-right-to-use-her-name-only-approved-names-allowed/2013/01/03/1e9a95d0-557a-11e2-89de-76c1c54b1418_story.html



From the "difficult for an American to imagine" files...

97 replies, 9795 views

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Reply Icelandic girl fights government over right to use her name; only ‘approved’ names allowed (Original post)
Recursion Jan 2013 OP
jberryhill Jan 2013 #1
yurbud Jan 2013 #22
raging_moderate Jan 2013 #41
Codeine Jan 2013 #45
Posteritatis Jan 2013 #67
jberryhill Jan 2013 #73
mainer Jan 2013 #2
dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #3
Moonwalk Jan 2013 #6
Diclotican Jan 2013 #12
dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #14
Diclotican Jan 2013 #18
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #78
Diclotican Jan 2013 #82
freshwest Jan 2013 #17
TygrBright Jan 2013 #5
Orrex Jan 2013 #7
dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #13
Orrex Jan 2013 #16
Pachamama Jan 2013 #42
dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #43
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #79
dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #80
Kennah Jan 2013 #92
krispos42 Jan 2013 #15
Posteritatis Jan 2013 #68
kentauros Jan 2013 #85
LiberalEsto Jan 2013 #39
jberryhill Jan 2013 #46
cyberswede Jan 2013 #55
d_r Jan 2013 #4
Orrex Jan 2013 #8
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #35
MADem Jan 2013 #60
Marthe48 Jan 2013 #9
Recursion Jan 2013 #10
Marthe48 Jan 2013 #11
Nine Jan 2013 #64
Marthe48 Jan 2013 #66
marshall Jan 2013 #19
Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #23
marshall Jan 2013 #90
TXDem72 Jan 2013 #61
marshall Jan 2013 #83
TXDem72 Jan 2013 #88
freshwest Jan 2013 #20
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #36
Posteritatis Jan 2013 #72
KamaAina Jan 2013 #48
SheilaT Jan 2013 #21
Shivering Jemmy Jan 2013 #51
Posteritatis Jan 2013 #69
IveWornAHundredPants Jan 2013 #24
Recursion Jan 2013 #25
hunter Jan 2013 #26
Recursion Jan 2013 #27
hunter Jan 2013 #28
revolution breeze Jan 2013 #62
Posteritatis Jan 2013 #70
SheilaT Jan 2013 #59
Exultant Democracy Jan 2013 #29
Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2013 #33
oberle Jan 2013 #95
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #30
JoeyT Jan 2013 #40
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #50
marions ghost Jan 2013 #47
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #49
marions ghost Jan 2013 #53
question everything Jan 2013 #58
MadrasT Jan 2013 #31
Exultant Democracy Jan 2013 #34
peacebird Jan 2013 #32
Shrek Jan 2013 #37
Posteritatis Jan 2013 #71
Enrique Jan 2013 #38
Igel Jan 2013 #44
BadGimp Jan 2013 #52
Recursion Jan 2013 #57
HeiressofBickworth Jan 2013 #54
happyslug Jan 2013 #65
jberryhill Jan 2013 #74
happyslug Jan 2013 #86
jberryhill Jan 2013 #87
happyslug Jan 2013 #89
Hekate Jan 2013 #56
revolution breeze Jan 2013 #63
JudyM Feb 2013 #97
Blasphemer Jan 2013 #75
ashling Jan 2013 #76
aint_no_life_nowhere Jan 2013 #77
Recursion Jan 2013 #81
OswegoAtheist Jan 2013 #84
Undismayed Jan 2013 #91
Kennah Jan 2013 #93
Larrymoe Curlyshemp Jan 2013 #94
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #96

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:53 AM

1. Halldor Laxness?


And THAT was on the list of names that would "protect children from being embarrassed"? Lol.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:28 PM

22. Sounds like a character in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy or The Hunger Games

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:21 PM

41. I'm waiting for Bjork to weigh in...

nt

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:09 PM

45. Silly name, amazing writer.

Nobel Prize winner, iirc.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:20 PM

67. Foreign countries have different naming patterns than the US. Imagine that. (nt)

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #67)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:28 PM

73. They should have a law against funny names

So that people from normal countries don't make fun of them.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:54 AM

2. I think this is true in the Netherlands as well

They have a list of officially "approved" names. Ostensibly, it's to prevent cruel parents from giving their children names that will lead to ridicule.

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Response to mainer (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:12 AM

3. Cnut

may not have had much fun before he was made king of England, Norway, and Denmark especially if he had spelling problems writing his own name.

Bwian comes to mind too.



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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:16 AM

6. Bah! That's what scholars and priests were for--doing the writing. Kings didn't have to be literate-

--back in Cnut's day

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:35 AM

12. dipsydoodle

dipsydoodle

Cnut is not That a difficult name in Norwegian - or in danish or in swedish for that matter.. The modern name is by the way Knut...

Diclotican

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:40 AM

14. Yes but that was then - a thousand years ago.

Maybe times changed. That's our old English spelling anyway.

Happy New Year to you.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:05 PM

18. dipsydoodle

dipsydoodle

Yes I know.

And, Happy new year to you too Dispsydoodle, hope you get a better year than you have had last year.

Diclotican

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:12 PM

78. For some reason my stepdad liked calling me Knut (Canute in English)...

...as a nick-name.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #78)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:44 PM

82. Odin2005

Odin2005

Not the worst nickname you could be given I would say - as Canute was a great viking King by the way - even though he is not the most known - or popular for that matter - but he was respected by most, as the King..

Diclotican

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:46 AM

17. Bwahaha! We will never outgrow such humor.


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Response to mainer (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:16 AM

5. Speaking as a person who suffered bitterly from such ridicule...

...as a child, I can empathize with the desire to spare others.

But my name wasn't inherently ridiculous, just very uncommon for that place and time.

And now I love having a fairly unique name (although it poses some internet privacy issues, I do have to use aliases a lot.)

Kids are going to ridicule each others' names even when they're relatively ordinary, if they're the kind of poorly-parented, poorly-educated, poorly-socialized young detrimentals who find bullying and ridiculing others amusing or satisfying.

Attempting to keep this particular kind of bullying from happening via government fiat seems a trifle futile to me.

bemusedly,
Bright

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Response to TygrBright (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:18 AM

7. I can't believe that your parents named you Bright

What were they thinking?


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Response to Orrex (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:37 AM

13. My wife had a friend whose family name was Button.

They had named their daughter Pearl.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:44 AM

16. Yowza.

During my college years I knew someone whose last name was Boob.

His parents were Bob and Barb.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:17 PM

42. Better than if their last name had been necklace...

....sorry...after just watching the Life of Brian and "Biggus Dickus" clip posted above, I couldnt control myself....

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Response to Pachamama (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:30 PM

43. lol

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #13)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:14 PM

79. I feel bad for all the Michael Hunts and Henry Beavers.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #79)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:16 PM

80. The first is the Porkies classic

Anyone seen..............

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #79)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:07 AM

92. Along with the less often ridiculed Michael Torres

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Response to TygrBright (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:40 AM

15. My first and last names are very common.

I still use an alias!


I do wish my parents had sprung for a multi-syllable first name, though.

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Response to TygrBright (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:22 PM

68. I'm at the opposite end with my own name

I have the same name as a particularly popular stage and television actor and have probably heard every possible comment on that twice (along with the fun of people assuming my ID is fake at inconvenient times).

Of course, I studied history under a Jim Morrison and went to junior high with a James Kirk, so I keep telling myself it could have been worse.

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Response to TygrBright (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 02:39 AM

85. Well, at least your name isn't Michael Bolton



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Response to mainer (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:08 PM

39. And France nt

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Response to mainer (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:19 PM

46. If only Asswipe Johnson had that sort of protection


It's pronounce ah-SWEE-pay!

(old snl skit)

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #46)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:51 PM

55. + 1

We were just laughing about that skit the other day. Hilarious!

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:13 AM

4. this was really interesting to me

I thought of how upset right wingers would be if the government told them that they couldn't name their kids "Kodee" or "Kaytlynne" because of the spelling, but how happy they would be if the government required only English names or non-"ethnic" names or "African American" sounding names.

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Response to d_r (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:21 AM

8. If such a law were passed, they try to use it to impeach Obama

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Response to d_r (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 04:46 PM

35. I bet you could survey a thousand and get wildly different answers

depending on how you worded it.

Freedom to name your kid whatever you want, versus restrictions on non-English names.

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Response to d_r (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 01:35 AM

60. Track, Tripp, Mitt, Tagg....those Republicans have some bogus sounding monikers... nt

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:22 AM

9. Blaer isn't a bad name

how about L-a (pronounced Ladasha)

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Response to Marthe48 (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:25 AM

10. Back when I was substitute teaching...

...the first ten minutes of every class was every child making very sure I knew how their name was spelled. I tried every polite way to say "I don't care how your parents spelled Lashonda, I'm just trying to learn your name long enough to teach you how to divide fractions." Nothing stuck.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:30 AM

11. We are unique

but I guess some people need to emphasize that idea

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Response to Marthe48 (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 09:32 AM

64. Most likely an urban legend

http://www.snopes.com/racial/language/le-a.asp

Not disproven but no evidence supporting it. And with likely racist undertones, in the same vein as:

http://www.snopes.com/racial/language/names.asp

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Response to Nine (Reply #64)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:08 PM

66. I even forgot where I heard it

but never forgot the naming convention. When I mention it, people always have names they think are worse

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:12 PM

19. Sounds like a good system

Six years of teaching, struggling with pronouncing names that were incomprehensible in spelling, having a standard wouldn't be bad.

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Response to marshall (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:29 PM

23. Let's not constrain others to live within the confines of narrow minds nt

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:26 PM

90. True, what business is it of ours to criticize iceland's culture

They may not do things the American way, but is their way of knife any less valuable? They have produced remarkable advances in gender equality, among other successsses.

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Response to marshall (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:30 AM

61. I'm sorry; that's a very bigoted thing to say

I guess in America, we speak American, right?

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Response to TXDem72 (Reply #61)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 01:36 AM

83. Presumably they speak Icelandic

It seems to have worked for them. They are in many ways less bigoted than we Americans.

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Response to marshall (Reply #83)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:56 AM

88. I was referring to the schoolteacher n/t

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:21 PM

20. The Phoenix family named their children River, Rain, Joaquin, Summer and Liberty.

I knew of a family who named their children after characters in the TV series Battlestar Galactica. Apollo, Starbuck, etc. The kids in the school didn't made fun of them, though.

My given names sound sweet and in combination, snobby. I can hardly say it all aloud without rolling my eyes when in business people start to write the full thing down. I ask people to use my nick, which is short and abrupt.

I was careful in selecting children's names to make sure that not even the initials gave room to tease. I saw that in addition to shunning of kids with unusual names years ago. Not cool for a child.

Iceland needs to add to the 'list' or confront bullying or lack of respect, maybe.



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Response to freshwest (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 04:47 PM

36. One of the kids at my son's montessori school is named for a Mass Effect 3 character...

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #36)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:27 PM

72. Not Grunt, Legion or Harbinger, I hope. (nt)

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Response to freshwest (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:25 PM

48. Hawai'i novelist Lois-Ann Yamanaka writes of kids named "Maverick" and "Tareyton" among others

and her fiction is quite thinly disguised.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:28 PM

21. I am all too often horrified or just astonished at the parents

who think it's really clever to give a child a made-up name or a name with a "creative" spelling that means the child will spend his or her entire life explaining to everyone just how it's spelled and how it's pronounced.

As an English-speaking American, the name Blaer does not strike me as all that problematical, but that's me, and I don't live in Iceland.

I also am slightly surprised that all parents don't double-check the list before giving their child a name.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:31 PM

51. maybe the really just wanted to tell the gov't to go f* itself

In this case, if that's so, more power to them.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #51)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:24 PM

69. Nah, they'd just assumed the name wasn't a problem

The kid's name was registered, then they found out it wasn't on The List, at which point hilarity has ensued ever since.

The only person trying to work the government over with the cluebat is the girl herself, and more power to her in that case; one's right to determine their own name should be utterly absolute.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:33 PM

24. Strange that Blaer is unapproved in Iceland

but Natalie, Jo and Tootie are just fine.

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Response to IveWornAHundredPants (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:35 PM

25. Naetelae, Jö, and Töøtyi, you mean? (nt)

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:44 PM

26. Names are fluid in our family.

I wonder if those traditions come from a time and place where naming conventions were limited by law or culture. Sure, the church and state gave you an official name but they couldn't make you use it. I remember as a kid feeling like it wasn't even worth remembering the names of the relatives we rarely visited because the next time we saw them they'd be going by different names.

And I know it's not unique to my family. I once worked with a woman who was called one name by her family, another name by her long time friends and people in the community, yet another name by her coworkers, and none of these were any of the names on her official documents. When she married her long time SO she added yet another name, another Ms. *****. I had to know all her names because I was the one answering the phone. The first few weeks at this job were very confusing. This is probably less of a problem now that everyone can take personal calls on their own cell phones.

BTW, most people call me "Hunter," especially on the internet.

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Response to hunter (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:47 PM

27. Go to a Catholic wedding. Meet 20 girls named Marie and 20 boys named Paul.

All in the same family...

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Response to Recursion (Reply #27)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:57 PM

28. Yep, I've been to Catholic weddings...

...including my own...

When I google the first and last name on my birth certificate there are very many of us.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #27)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 09:21 AM

62. Try doing geneaology on those 20 girls

named Marie. I have been tracing my mother's family. I got some fascinating information from a cousin on "Marie Louise", unfortunately my "Marie Louise" was the wrong one, but they were born in the same year, had the same last name and were daughters of brothers. I asked another cousin who knew them both and said in the family one was know as Louise and the other MarLouise as they had both lived in the same house for a time.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #27)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:25 PM

70. And half the Pauls have a brother named Peter...

I think I know six Peter/Paul combinations. Come on, parents.

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Response to hunter (Reply #26)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 01:21 AM

59. One huge enormous problem with someone being known

by different names like that, is when that person is admitted to a hospital, unless all of those people actually know what her legal name is, they will not be able to find her to visit her.

I work the information desk at a hospital. I see this every single day. I even get people who are looking for "Uncle Eddie" (and I'm making up all of these names) who absolutely have no idea that Uncle Eddie's legal name is Joseph. If the Uncle has a relatively common surname -- and I live in Santa Fe, NM, and I swear to you that the locals have about 17 different surnames altogether -- then I can't even begin to figure out who Uncle Eddie is and where he might be here. Oh. And while I don't expect everyone to know the exact birth date of all of their friends or relatives, it would be nice if the had some idea to within 5 years of the birth date. You have no idea how many times someone will be looking for a friend, Jimmy Smith, and I have three different Jimmy Smiths, but the age they give is not within 10 years of any of them.

Even worse, I'll have two different Sam Smiths in the hospital, only 2 years apart in age. When that happens, I'll give the visitor both room numbers, and tell them if their friend isn't in the first room, go check out the second.

Names matter. Names are important. It really, really confuses things if a parent gives a child one name, and then the kid is forever after known by some other name. Even if it's that kid's legal middle name, which I've run into more times than I care to count.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 03:43 PM

29. First names in Iceland are important. Your first name is your kids last name.

So now there may be a Blaersson or Blaerdottir.

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Response to Exultant Democracy (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 04:18 PM

33. Icelanders do not have family names

They're all first name plus (maybe a middle name) plus (father's first name) plus -sson or -dottir.

For example, the two best known Icelandic mystery writers (and they are very good writers, by the way) are Arnaldur Indridason and Yrsa Sigurdardottir.

People in Iceland are addressed by their first names and even listed in the phonebook under their first names.

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Response to Exultant Democracy (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:24 AM

95. dottir

I have a friend named Holly, whose mother is named Dotty. She always wanted to be called Holly Dottidottir.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 03:58 PM

30. I recall the DU meltdown over the kid whose first and middle names were Adolph Hitler

Such a law in the US would have saved that poor kid.

My first name is longish and not common but not that uncommon either, my middle and last names are short and quite possibly unique, I've never had anyone manage to spell or pronounce all three correctly without my correcting them.

I've been used to them for a very long time and actually like being unique now but it caused me considerable grief as a child in school.


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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:09 PM

40. It wouldn't have really saved him.

It would've saved him from being named Adolf Hitler, but it wouldn't have saved him from being raised by parents that thought naming their kid Adolf Hitler was a good idea. The latter is far more damaging than the former. Though I think I remember them having lost custody of their kids from a while back.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #40)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:20 PM

50. I suppose I was really thinking of the whole society being different with such a law

If you tried to name your child Adolf Hitler in Iceland I imagine it might draw some serious scrutiny from the authorities, something beyond just the name on the list.

But you are right, just the name law wouldn't make much difference outside of school.


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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:20 PM

47. Uniqueness is good

I'm all for name creativity and the more unusual the better.

Odd names build character.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:17 PM

49. So you subscribe to the "Boy Named Sue" theory, eh?

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #49)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:09 PM

53. Ha ha

I guess so...

Let's see, 4 people in my family have what you'd call weird or unusual combinations of names. One of them is sure he's the only person in the world with this first and last name together. Everybody tells him his name is so cool.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #30)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 12:52 AM

58. At least after WWII, Italy restriced names given to newborn

to names from the book of the Saints (whatever this is).

The reason was to prevent any parent naming a kid Benito (Mussolini).

I don't know if this law still exists.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 04:07 PM

31. So they aren't especially transgender friendly in Iceland?

A female person can't use the name "Blaer" because
the panel turned it down on the grounds that the word Blaer takes a masculine article


???

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Response to MadrasT (Reply #31)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 04:43 PM

34. Actually they are famous for their support for the GBTL community.

The biggest party each year is the week long gay pride festival.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 04:07 PM

32. A co-worker with last name of Rhoades named his kids Rocky and Sandy....

I kid you not.....

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:00 PM

37. Remember little 3-year old Adolf Hitler?

Who was refused a cake on his birthday because the bakery didn't like his name?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28269290/ns/us_news-weird_news/t/-year-old-hitler-cant-get-name-cake/

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Response to Shrek (Reply #37)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:26 PM

71. That situation is a tiny bit different. (nt)

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:07 PM

38. Alaska needs a law like that

their names are out of control

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Response to Enrique (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:00 PM

44. Not just there.

Asked a cashier how to pronounce her name.

Something like Jhaen'ne.

"Jan." Not a novel name.

There's a kid I see on a school list from time to time who's name starts with Rr. Rrahndy'e?


I can see restricting names for phonotactics, making sure they can be pronounced. We speak Russian a bit at home and tend to know Russians, so we insisted that our kid, first name "Joshua", have a name that's usable in Russian. "Joshua" is a mess. And if you "translate" it using the NT equivalent, you get the same form they use for "Jesus".

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:55 PM

52. Really? How is important?

Not worthy of LBN imo

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Response to BadGimp (Reply #52)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 12:30 AM

57. Then alert, for Christ's sake.

This isn't difficult.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:35 PM

54. I'm a victim of birth-name popularity syndrome.

When I was born, my first name was in the top five most popular first names for female children. At one time during my life, I knew seven others with the same first name.

I was living in Germany when I became pregnant with my daughter. We picked a name we thought would not be so common as neither my husband nor I knew anyone by that name. When we got back to the US, we found that the name we selected was in the top five the year she was born.

I think the syndrome has been broken with the naming of my granddaughter. Her name is usually found as an English surname so it is unusual for a first name for a girl. When I first heard the choice of name, I was skeptical, however, she seems to fit the name.

Now, I think there is a world of difference between the popularity of names and the government regulation of names. In this country, if your parents give you a name you don't like, when you turn 18 you can change it.

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Response to HeiressofBickworth (Reply #54)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:03 AM

65. Who says you have to wait till you turn 18???

No state that I know of, the laws in many states follow what we do in Pennsylvania, a person can change they name at any time as long as they do it consistently and for non-fraudulent purposes AND you do NOT have to go to court to do this (THis was the Common Law Rule as to Names).

Now, in my home state you MAY go to court to change your name, but it is NOT required and has never been required. Other states require you go through their court system to change a name (and some states require you to go through the Courts to change a name on a birth certificate). Pennsylvania does not.

Now, when it comes to Bureaucracies (i.e. Schools) they often have difficulties with the above. They want any child to use the name on the Birth Certificate, even through that is NOT the law in Pennsylvania. Thus it is Schools and other similar bureaucracies that are the biggest obstacles to changing a child's name without a court order.

Now, Pennsylvania does require ex-Felons to go to court to change their names and requires the permission of both parents for the Courts to change the name of a child under 18, but that does NOT restrict the child him or herself from using a different name then the one on the child's birth certificate. Thus a child, like any other resident of a state that has rules like Pennsylvania, can change they name at any time as long as it is done for "consistently and for non-fraudulent purposes".

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Response to happyslug (Reply #65)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:50 AM

74. Um, and the tax and licensing authorities take your word for it?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #74)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 02:59 AM

86. By law they have to

The Actual Statute is 54 P.C.S. Section 701 (b). Originally written in the 1920s, but in the 1920s had only what is now called 701(a), which said people MAY go to Court. The Courts of Pennsylvania then ruled that since the law uses the term "May", it means people "May" go to court to change their name but did not have to. When that section was codified in the 1970s, the General Assembly added section "B" which just repeated what the courts had long ruled. About 1998, the General Assembly added rerstrictions as to felons changing their name (adding 54 Pa.C.S. Section 702 (C))

54 P.C.S. Section 701(b) :

Informal change of name.--Notwithstanding subsection (a), a person may at any time adopt and use any name if such name is used consistently, non-fraudulently and exclusively. The adoption of such name shall not, however, be in contravention of the prohibitions contained in section 702(c) (relating to change by order of court).


http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/54/54.HTM

Notice I mentioned "bureaucracies" have a problem with the above law, but it is the law.

As to tax authorities, not a problem if you pay your taxes, they rarely care about anything else. Except for Income Taxes, tax collectors do not even care WHO pays the taxes, as long as the tax is paid (Income Taxes tend to be personal, and if someone else pays your Income Tax, that payment is Income, that you owe Income Taxes on, thus if someone else is paying the Income Taxes must that person must include the money paid as taxes as income when calculating how much tax to pay).

As to licensing authorities, most just want to see that you are using a name consistently and for Non-Fraudulent purposes. Once you show that, they will change the name on the license.

For example, my Father used the name Henry for 65 years till he had to get a copy of his birth Certificate. By then I knew the Social Security Rule, they wanted a Birth Certificate OR a letter from your state's Bureau of Vital Statistics that there is no record of your birth. This regulations reflect the fact that many people born in the US never had a birth Certificate. Rarer now then it was prior to WWII, but true even to day.

When he made the application for a Birth Certificate, it came back with the name "Wilbert", a name he NEVER used, We then sent it back with the back filled out , for that is the form to change a birth certificate. A few weeks later the corrected birth Certificate came back. No court action was or is needed to this day in Pennsylvania to change a birth Certificate. Thus even at that level it is not hard to change your name. Penndot dislikes it, but will accept it to even change your Driver's License. This is due to Penndot accepting that you have changed your name consistently and for non-fraudulent purposes. Please note, with Penndot we are discussing people over age 16 (if the teenage has a parent's permission to drive) or 18 (if the teen driver parents refuse). I was responding to a person in regards to a much younger person (Teenager or younger) that decides to change their name. Most such teenager or younger people do NOT owe taxes OR have any form of license. Thus not a factor in their lives and NOT a factor in this thread.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #86)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 04:21 AM

87. Just out of curiosity...

...how are you so acquainted with this?

I know of one trans person who seemed to have to go through quite the process to change her name in PA, or at least so I was told. But perhaps that is because there was more at issue than simply a name change.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #87)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 12:19 PM

89. I have cited this law for over 25 years in my practice

I also have to inform my client that bureaucracies can NOT handle this being the law. And that there are no one location that keeps your name. Birth Certificates are only registration of birth, it has NEVER been a registration of your name. Your name on your Birth Certificate is for the purpose registering your birth and storing the certificate so it can be found later if and when it is needed.

As you enter the work force, you have to register to pay taxes and then sooner or later other places that uses the name you are using for their own use. This includes, not only your local and State Tax collectors, but the IRS, Social Security, your employer, your landlord (if your rent) or mortgage holder (if you buy a home), your utility providers, your doctor, your lawyer, etc.

Each of these bureaucracies use the name you have been using, for their own purposes. Thus you have to inform ALL OF THEM that you have changed your name, This is true even if you go to court to change your name, most will not require a copy of any court order (due to the above law) but you have to keep them informed.

Bureaucracies have a hard time with the fact women can and do change their name when they are married, AND that some married women do NOT assume their Husband's name. Yes I have seen BOTH problems, wives who have to adopt their husband's name because the bureaucracies they are dealing with have a hard time dealing with wives with different names then their husbands. I have also seen problems when a woman did change her name to her husband's and bureaucrats had problems with that. I have seen other people with names bureaucracies can not handle.

Pennsylvania is one of the worse states when it comes to bureaucratic division. Even if you have a court order change of name, you still have to inform all of the bureaucracies of your change of name, and often more then once. Most bureaucracies are set up, you graduate from High School, your go to work (You get married and change your name if you are female, thus all of your records are in your married name then you go to work), have children, pay taxes, buy or rent a house, pay utilities etc.

Bureaucracies can handle when women get married, if they do it young (i.e. before you started to pay taxes, rent and utilities) but NOT if they do it later in life OR any other reason you change your name. This has been a problem for the Witness Protection Programs, in such programs you end up with people who are 40 and have no work history, no rental history, no paying of mortgage history, no credit history. Bureaucracies can NOT handle them, bureaucracies can handle immigrants better for immigrants have such history overseas. I only bring this up to show the problem of name change is more then a problem of wives and ex-wives.

Just a comment, I did not say it was easy to change one's name, I just said you do NOT have to go to court to do it. The problem is rarely the actual change of name, but getting the various bureaucracies to accept the change and to use the name as changed.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 12:10 AM

56. Iceland is one of the most homogeneous countries in the world

America is one of the most diverse. So yes, their customs and laws would be difficult for us to imagine.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 09:27 AM

63. An interesting custom in my ex's family

Every girl child MUST have a variance of the name "Mary" i.e. Teresa Marie, Mary Ruth, Maria Denise. I was the first person to not name my daughter anything that began with MAR. Ex's mother told him that he needed to amend the birth certificate to include it or daughter would have bad luck. When she developed diabetes at 6, MIL said it was because I was "too simple" to follow the tradition, which only goes back 4 generations.

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Response to revolution breeze (Reply #63)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 10:03 AM

97. Sounds like MIL is the one who's too simple. Good for you for hanging strong! nt

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:06 AM

75. I'm not opposed to their rule

Not that my opinion matters of course, but I understand why the law exists. However, I think the exception should have been granted in this case given the history of the name. In any language or culture, linguistic rules related to masculine and feminine articles are pretty archaic.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 07:02 AM

76. Every semester I can expect some "Brittanys" on my rosters

I put it in quotes, because of all of the different spellings. One semester I think I had 15 - all spelled differently:

Brittany, Britany, Britney, Bryttny, Bryttanie, well, you get the idea

Only in America. Really!

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:07 PM

77. What's "Moon Unit" in Icelandic?

I gather that it's not on the list?

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #77)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:33 PM

81. Tungl Eining (nt)

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 02:00 AM

84. I don't mind infinite variants and unique names...

...it's those families where everyone HAS to have the same first initial that grinds my gears.

Oswego "All-iteration in the Family" Atheist

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:27 PM

91. Sounds like a good idea.

 

Let's just block any chance of creativity or self expression. You can express yourself as long as you use the approved words and approved methods of stringing them together.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:09 AM

93. Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho is NOT amused!

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:13 AM

94. Krystal Ball on MSNBC

 

Case rested

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 08:20 AM

96. Follow-up: Icelandic girl Blaer wins right to use given name

"I'm very happy," Blaer said after the ruling.

"I'm glad this is over. Now I expect I'll have to get new identity papers. Finally, I'll have the name Blaer in my passport."

Reykjavik District Court's decision overturns an earlier rejection of the name by Icelandic authorities.

Until now, Blaer Bjarkardottir had been identified simply as "Girl" in communications with officials.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21280101

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