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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:02 PM Jan 2013

Grover Norquist: ‘No Republican Voted For A Tax Increase’

Source: TPM



DAVID TAINTOR 1:45 PM EST, WEDNESDAY JANUARY 2, 2013

Anti-tax advocate Grover Norquist on MSNBC Wednesday insisted that Republicans who supported the fiscal cliff deal did not vote to increase taxes on the wealthiest Americans. "No Republican voted for a tax increase," Norquist said.

"Wait a second," Andrea Mitchell said. "I mean, we're not living in the 'Alice in Wonderland' world here. There is a tax increase for wealthier Americans. It's literally a tax increase."

Technically, it's not, Norquist said. "What happened yesterday was, all the tax rates went up, and then the Republicans and the Congress together took them down for some people, not for everybody."

-30-

Read more: http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/grover-norquist-no-republican-voted-for-tax-increase

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Grover Norquist: ‘No Republican Voted For A Tax Increase’ (Original Post) DonViejo Jan 2013 OP
LOL! Like we couldn't see that coming a mile away. Talking heads said on new years eve that peacebird Jan 2013 #1
Delusional! Estevan Jan 2013 #2
Great way for him to save face: adieu Jan 2013 #13
Indeed - NorQuisling & RepliCronies need to go back to where they came from Berlum Jan 2013 #19
Too bad Vaudeville is gone... bluesbassman Jan 2013 #3
I happened to catch this segment today Plucketeer Jan 2013 #6
STFU you Asshole! SoapBox Jan 2013 #4
So since Democrats provided the majority of votes for this, this was a purely Democratic tax cut. denverbill Jan 2013 #5
No. Igel Jan 2013 #32
No what he's arguing is that the Bush tax cuts expired Jan 1, which they did. denverbill Jan 2013 #37
Technically, then Grover, the majority voted against tax cuts. rateyes Jan 2013 #7
"we're not living in the 'Alice in Wonderland' world here" BumRushDaShow Jan 2013 #8
All very excellent points, thank you. closeupready Jan 2013 #23
Once, just once. WinstonSmith4740 Jan 2013 #31
Har, har, har! Look at Pudge Norquist, struggling to move those goalposts! MADem Jan 2013 #9
Has Grover met Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf? Jack Rabbit Jan 2013 #10
Spin ya little weasel, spin. QED Jan 2013 #11
repugs as the "no tax party" brand? No, they're the "make-no-sense" brand and the "pro-rich" brand wordpix Jan 2013 #38
How does that claim work? adieu Jan 2013 #12
Because the Bush tax cuts expired at the end of 2012. Lasher Jan 2013 #28
Image of Grover today liberal N proud Jan 2013 #14
Yeah! That's the ticket! mac56 Jan 2013 #15
I don't pay attention HawkeyeLibkid Jan 2013 #16
Reminds me of the old Blondie song NICO9000 Jan 2013 #17
But Republican Senators signed the bill before taxes went up. subterranean Jan 2013 #18
Commie Socialist elves did it! marble falls Jan 2013 #20
Quick, stick the shaft of a generator up his ass. Thor_MN Jan 2013 #21
Can't believe Andrea said that. But yeah, closeupready Jan 2013 #22
It's Called TAX INCREASE VIRGINITY, Grover bucolic_frolic Jan 2013 #24
He is correct. A majority of House Republicans voted against cutting taxes. ieoeja Jan 2013 #25
He is not correct jmowreader Jan 2013 #36
You are wrong. ieoeja Jan 2013 #39
I've read Norquist's definition of a tax increase jmowreader Jan 2013 #41
On that, I agree with you. But the true, non-Grover definition frames this issue better. ieoeja Jan 2013 #43
What a liar. This is NOT what he shouted from the rooftops in June: salib Jan 2013 #26
so... who voted for the taxes to go up on january 1, that they then cut on january 2? unblock Jan 2013 #27
Please GO AWAY grover. yesphan Jan 2013 #29
He tries so hard. nt Javaman Jan 2013 #30
He is trying. Very trying. Thor_MN Jan 2013 #34
Jedi Master Norquist... catnhatnh Jan 2013 #33
Norquist channels "Baghdad Bob" LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jan 2013 #35
"THE PLEDGE MUST NOT BE VIOLATED! ALL HAIL THE PLEDGE!" Arkana Jan 2013 #40
Reality and Right Wing Loonies have officially broken off all diplomatic relations n/t NHDEMFORLIFE Jan 2013 #42
this is an example of the deluded and lying world repugs create samsingh Jan 2013 #44

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
1. LOL! Like we couldn't see that coming a mile away. Talking heads said on new years eve that
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:04 PM
Jan 2013

going over the cliff gave the GOP cover on taxes, as they were rolling back a tax increase on all but the top earners.....

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
6. I happened to catch this segment today
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:14 PM
Jan 2013

I was literally laughing at Grover's contortionist antics. I surmised that Grover must be fastidious in keeping his shoes clean. Anyone who dances on their own tongue as much as he does would care about their sole!

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
4. STFU you Asshole!
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:09 PM
Jan 2013

YOU have been elected to NOTHING!

Shut the FUCK up and go away...How the hell do we shut this jag off down????????

denverbill

(11,489 posts)
5. So since Democrats provided the majority of votes for this, this was a purely Democratic tax cut.
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:12 PM
Jan 2013

Is that what Norquist is saying? After all, tax rates went up prior to Dems passing this. Only a handful of Congressional pukies went along.

Igel

(35,197 posts)
32. No.
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 06:10 PM
Jan 2013

He's arguing that failing to stop tax cuts from expiring is different from increasing taxes.

One is a sin of omission. The other a sin of commission.

Strictly speaking, it's true. But it's playing on the kind of legal nicety that most people find deceptive or manipulative.

It's not a new kind of language game. Back in 2010 or so there was the whole "Obama promised not to raise taxes" and the way the expiration of the * tax cuts was going to work would have raised taxes on some people he promised not to raise taxes on.

The response was that Obama couldn't lie. Instead, there'd be no tax increased. There'd be the expiration of a decrease. A different kind of thing--nobody would actually raise taxes, they'd just let them raise automatically.

Same reasoning.

I termed this a negative tax reduction. Nobody voted to raise taxes, technically speaking. They just voted to extend only certain tax cuts that were going to expire (Senate) or had expired (House). The effect is identical to that of a tax increase because, well, taxes increase.

denverbill

(11,489 posts)
37. No what he's arguing is that the Bush tax cuts expired Jan 1, which they did.
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 08:51 PM
Jan 2013

Nobody voted for a tax increase. That was automatic and occurred Jan 1 for everybody.

The only thing voted for was a tax cut for everyone but the wealthy. That's true.

What he glosses over is that most Republickers voted AGAINST the tax cut. All Democrats voted for it.

BumRushDaShow

(127,312 posts)
8. "we're not living in the 'Alice in Wonderland' world here"
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:23 PM
Jan 2013

Yes Andrea, the rethug teabaggers that you and the rest of your lamestream ilk coddled and nurtured, ARE "living in the 'Alice in Wonderland'" world, and your network - including you, Monkey Boy Gregory, & Schmuck Toad, enabled it and the loons that people the GOP.

The "both sides do it" bullshit is "Alice in Wonderland".
The "The race is tied and Rmoney may win" bullshit WAS "Alice in Wonderland".

And like a good little corporate tool, Norquist the Rasputin of today, will be given a pass.

WinstonSmith4740

(3,048 posts)
31. Once, just once.
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 06:05 PM
Jan 2013

Wouldn't you love to see someone ask them just what color the sky is in their world? My money's on Soledad.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
9. Har, har, har! Look at Pudge Norquist, struggling to move those goalposts!
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:26 PM
Jan 2013

He's talking like one conked him on his head!

QED

(2,730 posts)
11. Spin ya little weasel, spin.
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:31 PM
Jan 2013

I've always thought of little Grover as a domestic terrorist.

Did you know that he thought up his idea in high school?

"The story has become Washington legend. Grover Norquist, who apparently was a Republican when he was a zygote, came up with the idea for the no-tax pledge in high school. "I had this history teacher who said that most people don't know who their Congressman is," Norquist told me, over coffee, as the President and Congress wrangled about the debt-ceiling limit — an argument Norquist probably has done more to precipitate than any other person in our nation's capital. "I had this insight: What if you could brand the Republican Party like Coke or Pepsi? What if it was defined as the no-tax party? Then people would know what they were getting." "

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2082951,00.html#ixzz2GqeNQk6b

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
38. repugs as the "no tax party" brand? No, they're the "make-no-sense" brand and the "pro-rich" brand
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:12 PM
Jan 2013
 

adieu

(1,009 posts)
12. How does that claim work?
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:50 PM
Jan 2013

Half the GOPs house voted for the bill, half in the house voted against, yet NO GOPs in the house voted to raise taxes? How does that work?

Lasher

(27,501 posts)
28. Because the Bush tax cuts expired at the end of 2012.
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 05:09 PM
Jan 2013

Then they were substantially resurrected and made permanent in January this year.

HawkeyeLibkid

(76 posts)
16. I don't pay attention
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:03 PM
Jan 2013

to idiots like Grover. Anyone who has signed his phony pledge should be tried for treason in my opinion.

NICO9000

(970 posts)
17. Reminds me of the old Blondie song
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:15 PM
Jan 2013

Went something like

"Don't go away mad
Don't go away sad
Just GO AWAY (go away!)

subterranean

(3,427 posts)
18. But Republican Senators signed the bill before taxes went up.
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:23 PM
Jan 2013

So technically, they did vote for a tax increase. They also voted for a tax increase -- twice -- when they put an expiration date on the Bush tax cuts and the two-year extension.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
21. Quick, stick the shaft of a generator up his ass.
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:40 PM
Jan 2013

He could power the Eastern Seaboard with that amount of spin.

bucolic_frolic

(42,676 posts)
24. It's Called TAX INCREASE VIRGINITY, Grover
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:49 PM
Jan 2013

and your guys all lost it

and you've lost your mind if you ever had one

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
25. He is correct. A majority of House Republicans voted against cutting taxes.
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 05:03 PM
Jan 2013

A minority of House Republicans voted in favor of cutting taxes. While Democrats rather wholeheartdly endorsed cutting taxes. Again.

You want to have some fun? Utter the phrase, "we have to STOP cutting taxes," around a crowd of people. I get the most bewildered stares when I say that.

But it is true. I am 51 years old. Feds must have cut my taxes a dozen times during my career. And nobody noticed. Which sort of makes me wonder why the pols even bother.


jmowreader

(50,453 posts)
36. He is not correct
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 08:39 PM
Jan 2013

Norquist said NO Republican voted for a tax increase. There was one and Republicans voted for it.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
39. You are wrong.
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
Jan 2013

There was no vote to increase taxes.

There was no vote to extend the tax holiday.

There was a vote to enact some permanent tax cuts. Those cuts matched some, just not all, of the temporary tax holiday.


The above is simple accuracy, not framing. But if you are willing to spin, then there are two ways this could be framed:

1. Conservatives and Teabagger Republicans voted against cutting federal income taxes, or
2. Democrats and Moderate Republicans voted for a tax increase.

For some weird reason, DUers want to frame this as #2. I'm sure when Rightists come to their political senses, they will be happy to frame this as a Democratic tax increase instead of a tax cut. And they are getting lots and lots of quotes from people on the Left making that very claim right now.

We do not deserve to win elections.


jmowreader

(50,453 posts)
41. I've read Norquist's definition of a tax increase
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:08 PM
Jan 2013

Under it, allowing Bush's temporary tax cuts to lapse like they were designed to qualifies as a tax increase.

He also considers allowing a loophole to close to be a tax increase.

You are thinking like a rational person and a rational person wouldn't consider this bill a tax increase. I applied Norquist's spin to it, and under that it is one.

Three of Idaho's four members - both senators and the non-teabagger congressman - voted aye.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
43. On that, I agree with you. But the true, non-Grover definition frames this issue better.
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:25 PM
Jan 2013

And, of course, it has the advantage of being accurate.


salib

(2,116 posts)
26. What a liar. This is NOT what he shouted from the rooftops in June:
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 05:04 PM
Jan 2013
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/grover-norquist-pledge-gop-bush-tax-cuts-compromise.php

.... For that reason, Norquist is insisting on an interpretation of his pledge in which failing to prevent a tax increase — or even voting to partially cut a lapsed rate — would constitute a violation.

“I think the American people would look at anything that raised taxes from where they are today to be a tax increase,” Norquist told TPM Monday. “Everybody knows this has been coming.”

unblock

(51,974 posts)
27. so... who voted for the taxes to go up on january 1, that they then cut on january 2?
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 05:07 PM
Jan 2013

oh, i see, that just magically happened.

yesphan

(1,586 posts)
29. Please GO AWAY grover.
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 05:12 PM
Jan 2013

You and your ilk diminish us and this nation. Please help organize and establish your
libertarian utopia somewhere else.

35. Norquist channels "Baghdad Bob"
Wed Jan 2, 2013, 08:31 PM
Jan 2013

Remember him? The Iraqi Information Minister's statements during the war with Iraq were as fantasy-filled as Grover's:

"There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"

"We have them surrounded in their tanks."

"They're not even within 100 miles of Baghdad. They are not in any place. They hold no place in Iraq. This is an illusion ... they are trying to sell to the others an illusion."

Why does anyone care about what Grover Norquist has to say?

Arkana

(24,347 posts)
40. "THE PLEDGE MUST NOT BE VIOLATED! ALL HAIL THE PLEDGE!"
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:55 AM
Jan 2013

"KALIMA...KALIMA!!!!!!!!"

Norquist is slowly losing his grip over economic policy in this country and watching him squirm is just delicious.

samsingh

(17,571 posts)
44. this is an example of the deluded and lying world repugs create
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:43 PM
Jan 2013

they are a menace and a threat to American values.

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