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Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:02 PM

Grover Norquist: ‘No Republican Voted For A Tax Increase’

Source: TPM



DAVID TAINTOR 1:45 PM EST, WEDNESDAY JANUARY 2, 2013

Anti-tax advocate Grover Norquist on MSNBC Wednesday insisted that Republicans who supported the fiscal cliff deal did not vote to increase taxes on the wealthiest Americans. "No Republican voted for a tax increase," Norquist said.

"Wait a second," Andrea Mitchell said. "I mean, we're not living in the 'Alice in Wonderland' world here. There is a tax increase for wealthier Americans. It's literally a tax increase."

Technically, it's not, Norquist said. "What happened yesterday was, all the tax rates went up, and then the Republicans and the Congress together took them down for some people, not for everybody."

-30-

Read more: http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/grover-norquist-no-republican-voted-for-tax-increase

44 replies, 4952 views

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Reply Grover Norquist: ‘No Republican Voted For A Tax Increase’ (Original post)
DonViejo Jan 2013 OP
peacebird Jan 2013 #1
Estevan Jan 2013 #2
adieu Jan 2013 #13
Berlum Jan 2013 #19
bluesbassman Jan 2013 #3
Plucketeer Jan 2013 #6
SoapBox Jan 2013 #4
denverbill Jan 2013 #5
Igel Jan 2013 #32
denverbill Jan 2013 #37
rateyes Jan 2013 #7
BumRushDaShow Jan 2013 #8
closeupready Jan 2013 #23
WinstonSmith4740 Jan 2013 #31
MADem Jan 2013 #9
Jack Rabbit Jan 2013 #10
QED Jan 2013 #11
wordpix Jan 2013 #38
adieu Jan 2013 #12
Lasher Jan 2013 #28
liberal N proud Jan 2013 #14
mac56 Jan 2013 #15
HawkeyeLibkid Jan 2013 #16
NICO9000 Jan 2013 #17
subterranean Jan 2013 #18
marble falls Jan 2013 #20
Thor_MN Jan 2013 #21
closeupready Jan 2013 #22
bucolic_frolic Jan 2013 #24
ieoeja Jan 2013 #25
jmowreader Jan 2013 #36
ieoeja Jan 2013 #39
jmowreader Jan 2013 #41
ieoeja Jan 2013 #43
salib Jan 2013 #26
unblock Jan 2013 #27
yesphan Jan 2013 #29
Javaman Jan 2013 #30
Thor_MN Jan 2013 #34
catnhatnh Jan 2013 #33
LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jan 2013 #35
Arkana Jan 2013 #40
NHDEMFORLIFE Jan 2013 #42
samsingh Jan 2013 #44

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:04 PM

1. LOL! Like we couldn't see that coming a mile away. Talking heads said on new years eve that

going over the cliff gave the GOP cover on taxes, as they were rolling back a tax increase on all but the top earners.....

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:04 PM

2. Delusional!

this guy is just trying to save face after looking like the biggest asshole on the planet.

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Response to Estevan (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:52 PM

13. Great way for him to save face:

Do a Javert and jump into a sewer.

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Response to adieu (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:24 PM

19. Indeed - NorQuisling & RepliCronies need to go back to where they came from

?w=500&h=249

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:08 PM

3. Too bad Vaudeville is gone...

Grover would've had a hell of a career as a song and dance man.

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Response to bluesbassman (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:14 PM

6. I happened to catch this segment today

I was literally laughing at Grover's contortionist antics. I surmised that Grover must be fastidious in keeping his shoes clean. Anyone who dances on their own tongue as much as he does would care about their sole!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:09 PM

4. STFU you Asshole!

YOU have been elected to NOTHING!

Shut the FUCK up and go away...How the hell do we shut this jag off down????????

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:12 PM

5. So since Democrats provided the majority of votes for this, this was a purely Democratic tax cut.

Is that what Norquist is saying? After all, tax rates went up prior to Dems passing this. Only a handful of Congressional pukies went along.

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Response to denverbill (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 05:10 PM

32. No.

He's arguing that failing to stop tax cuts from expiring is different from increasing taxes.

One is a sin of omission. The other a sin of commission.

Strictly speaking, it's true. But it's playing on the kind of legal nicety that most people find deceptive or manipulative.

It's not a new kind of language game. Back in 2010 or so there was the whole "Obama promised not to raise taxes" and the way the expiration of the * tax cuts was going to work would have raised taxes on some people he promised not to raise taxes on.

The response was that Obama couldn't lie. Instead, there'd be no tax increased. There'd be the expiration of a decrease. A different kind of thing--nobody would actually raise taxes, they'd just let them raise automatically.

Same reasoning.

I termed this a negative tax reduction. Nobody voted to raise taxes, technically speaking. They just voted to extend only certain tax cuts that were going to expire (Senate) or had expired (House). The effect is identical to that of a tax increase because, well, taxes increase.

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Response to Igel (Reply #32)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 07:51 PM

37. No what he's arguing is that the Bush tax cuts expired Jan 1, which they did.

Nobody voted for a tax increase. That was automatic and occurred Jan 1 for everybody.

The only thing voted for was a tax cut for everyone but the wealthy. That's true.

What he glosses over is that most Republickers voted AGAINST the tax cut. All Democrats voted for it.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:19 PM

7. Technically, then Grover, the majority voted against tax cuts.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:23 PM

8. "we're not living in the 'Alice in Wonderland' world here"

Yes Andrea, the rethug teabaggers that you and the rest of your lamestream ilk coddled and nurtured, ARE "living in the 'Alice in Wonderland'" world, and your network - including you, Monkey Boy Gregory, & Schmuck Toad, enabled it and the loons that people the GOP.

The "both sides do it" bullshit is "Alice in Wonderland".
The "The race is tied and Rmoney may win" bullshit WAS "Alice in Wonderland".

And like a good little corporate tool, Norquist the Rasputin of today, will be given a pass.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:42 PM

23. All very excellent points, thank you.

+1,000,000.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 05:05 PM

31. Once, just once.

Wouldn't you love to see someone ask them just what color the sky is in their world? My money's on Soledad.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:26 PM

9. Har, har, har! Look at Pudge Norquist, struggling to move those goalposts!

He's talking like one conked him on his head!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:28 PM

10. Has Grover met Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf?

You remember him, don't you?

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:31 PM

11. Spin ya little weasel, spin.

I've always thought of little Grover as a domestic terrorist.

Did you know that he thought up his idea in high school?

"The story has become Washington legend. Grover Norquist, who apparently was a Republican when he was a zygote, came up with the idea for the no-tax pledge in high school. "I had this history teacher who said that most people don't know who their Congressman is," Norquist told me, over coffee, as the President and Congress wrangled about the debt-ceiling limit — an argument Norquist probably has done more to precipitate than any other person in our nation's capital. "I had this insight: What if you could brand the Republican Party like Coke or Pepsi? What if it was defined as the no-tax party? Then people would know what they were getting." "

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2082951,00.html#ixzz2GqeNQk6b

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Response to QED (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 08:12 PM

38. repugs as the "no tax party" brand? No, they're the "make-no-sense" brand and the "pro-rich" brand

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:50 PM

12. How does that claim work?

Half the GOPs house voted for the bill, half in the house voted against, yet NO GOPs in the house voted to raise taxes? How does that work?

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Response to adieu (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:09 PM

28. Because the Bush tax cuts expired at the end of 2012.

Then they were substantially resurrected and made permanent in January this year.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:52 PM

14. Image of Grover today



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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:55 PM

15. Yeah! That's the ticket!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:03 PM

16. I don't pay attention

to idiots like Grover. Anyone who has signed his phony pledge should be tried for treason in my opinion.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:15 PM

17. Reminds me of the old Blondie song

Went something like

"Don't go away mad
Don't go away sad
Just GO AWAY (go away!)

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:23 PM

18. But Republican Senators signed the bill before taxes went up.

So technically, they did vote for a tax increase. They also voted for a tax increase -- twice -- when they put an expiration date on the Bush tax cuts and the two-year extension.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:37 PM

20. Commie Socialist elves did it!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:40 PM

21. Quick, stick the shaft of a generator up his ass.

He could power the Eastern Seaboard with that amount of spin.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:41 PM

22. Can't believe Andrea said that. But yeah,

we all live in a fact-based reality - not fantasy.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:49 PM

24. It's Called TAX INCREASE VIRGINITY, Grover

and your guys all lost it

and you've lost your mind if you ever had one

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:03 PM

25. He is correct. A majority of House Republicans voted against cutting taxes.


A minority of House Republicans voted in favor of cutting taxes. While Democrats rather wholeheartdly endorsed cutting taxes. Again.

You want to have some fun? Utter the phrase, "we have to STOP cutting taxes," around a crowd of people. I get the most bewildered stares when I say that.

But it is true. I am 51 years old. Feds must have cut my taxes a dozen times during my career. And nobody noticed. Which sort of makes me wonder why the pols even bother.


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Response to ieoeja (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 07:39 PM

36. He is not correct

Norquist said NO Republican voted for a tax increase. There was one and Republicans voted for it.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:21 AM

39. You are wrong.


There was no vote to increase taxes.

There was no vote to extend the tax holiday.

There was a vote to enact some permanent tax cuts. Those cuts matched some, just not all, of the temporary tax holiday.


The above is simple accuracy, not framing. But if you are willing to spin, then there are two ways this could be framed:

1. Conservatives and Teabagger Republicans voted against cutting federal income taxes, or
2. Democrats and Moderate Republicans voted for a tax increase.

For some weird reason, DUers want to frame this as #2. I'm sure when Rightists come to their political senses, they will be happy to frame this as a Democratic tax increase instead of a tax cut. And they are getting lots and lots of quotes from people on the Left making that very claim right now.

We do not deserve to win elections.


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Response to ieoeja (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:08 AM

41. I've read Norquist's definition of a tax increase

Under it, allowing Bush's temporary tax cuts to lapse like they were designed to qualifies as a tax increase.

He also considers allowing a loophole to close to be a tax increase.

You are thinking like a rational person and a rational person wouldn't consider this bill a tax increase. I applied Norquist's spin to it, and under that it is one.

Three of Idaho's four members - both senators and the non-teabagger congressman - voted aye.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 04:25 PM

43. On that, I agree with you. But the true, non-Grover definition frames this issue better.


And, of course, it has the advantage of being accurate.


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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:04 PM

26. What a liar. This is NOT what he shouted from the rooftops in June:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/grover-norquist-pledge-gop-bush-tax-cuts-compromise.php

.... For that reason, Norquist is insisting on an interpretation of his pledge in which failing to prevent a tax increase — or even voting to partially cut a lapsed rate — would constitute a violation.

“I think the American people would look at anything that raised taxes from where they are today to be a tax increase,” Norquist told TPM Monday. “Everybody knows this has been coming.”

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:07 PM

27. so... who voted for the taxes to go up on january 1, that they then cut on january 2?

oh, i see, that just magically happened.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:12 PM

29. Please GO AWAY grover.

You and your ilk diminish us and this nation. Please help organize and establish your
libertarian utopia somewhere else.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:14 PM

30. He tries so hard. nt

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Response to Javaman (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 07:23 PM

34. He is trying. Very trying.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 05:55 PM

33. Jedi Master Norquist...

"These are not the tax increases you were looking for."

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 07:31 PM

35. Norquist channels "Baghdad Bob"

Remember him? The Iraqi Information Minister's statements during the war with Iraq were as fantasy-filled as Grover's:

"There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"

"We have them surrounded in their tanks."

"They're not even within 100 miles of Baghdad. They are not in any place. They hold no place in Iraq. This is an illusion ... they are trying to sell to the others an illusion."

Why does anyone care about what Grover Norquist has to say?

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:55 AM

40. "THE PLEDGE MUST NOT BE VIOLATED! ALL HAIL THE PLEDGE!"

"KALIMA...KALIMA!!!!!!!!"

Norquist is slowly losing his grip over economic policy in this country and watching him squirm is just delicious.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:34 AM

42. Reality and Right Wing Loonies have officially broken off all diplomatic relations n/t

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 04:43 PM

44. this is an example of the deluded and lying world repugs create

they are a menace and a threat to American values.

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