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Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:08 PM

Pope Slams Capitalism, Inequality Between Rich And Poor In New Years Message

Source: Huffington Post

Earlier in his homily, the leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics decried "hotbeds of tension and conflict caused by growing instances of inequality between rich and poor".

He also denounced "the prevalence of a selfish and individualistic mindset which also finds expression in an unregulated capitalism, various forms of terrorism and criminality".

...

In his full message for the peace day, the pope called for a new economic model and ethical regulations for markets, saying the global financial crisis was proof that capitalism does not protect society's weakest members.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/01/pope-slams-capitalism-ine_n_2392653.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

67 replies, 9580 views

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Reply Pope Slams Capitalism, Inequality Between Rich And Poor In New Years Message (Original post)
UrbScotty Jan 2013 OP
Archae Jan 2013 #1
SoapBox Jan 2013 #3
totodeinhere Jan 2013 #29
Archae Jan 2013 #31
totodeinhere Jan 2013 #32
Ter Jan 2013 #37
musical_soul Jan 2013 #46
musical_soul Jan 2013 #47
Archae Jan 2013 #48
awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #36
totodeinhere Jan 2013 #60
CountAllVotes Jan 2013 #58
SoapBox Jan 2013 #2
freshwest Jan 2013 #8
SoapBox Jan 2013 #10
freshwest Jan 2013 #16
AlphaCentauri Jan 2013 #4
AlbertCat Jan 2013 #5
naaman fletcher Jan 2013 #6
eppur_se_muova Jan 2013 #18
pamela Jan 2013 #7
freshwest Jan 2013 #9
SoapBox Jan 2013 #12
Bozita Jan 2013 #11
Amonester Jan 2013 #27
Liberalagogo Jan 2013 #13
ReRe Jan 2013 #14
Ken Burch Jan 2013 #15
Rozlee Jan 2013 #20
Ken Burch Jan 2013 #24
Baitball Blogger Jan 2013 #17
eppur_se_muova Jan 2013 #19
TomCADem Jan 2013 #21
think Jan 2013 #22
TalkingDog Jan 2013 #23
phantom power Jan 2013 #25
SoapBox Jan 2013 #34
dorkzilla Jan 2013 #51
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #39
quakerboy Jan 2013 #26
LiberalElite Jan 2013 #28
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #38
Politicub Jan 2013 #30
Prophet 451 Jan 2013 #33
awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #35
Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #40
_ed_ Jan 2013 #56
Arugula Latte Jan 2013 #41
lunasun Jan 2013 #42
happyslug Jan 2013 #43
woo me with science Jan 2013 #44
musical_soul Jan 2013 #45
primavera Jan 2013 #49
defacto7 Jan 2013 #50
Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2013 #52
ronnie624 Jan 2013 #53
allrevvedup Jan 2013 #54
_ed_ Jan 2013 #55
Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #57
CountAllVotes Jan 2013 #59
Arugula Latte Jan 2013 #61
allrevvedup Jan 2013 #63
AnnieBW Jan 2013 #62
IndyJones Jan 2013 #64
Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #65
allrevvedup Jan 2013 #66
and-justice-for-all Jan 2013 #67

Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:12 PM

1. Speak for yourself, you nazi bastard.

The guy sits in luxury while his "subjects" die in poverty and as a result of their outdated dogma.

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Response to Archae (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:14 PM

3. I can't argue with what you said...

however, I agree with what he said...for once and probably once only.

The right words, out of the wrong person.

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Response to Archae (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:25 PM

29. It's unfair to call him a Nazi.

Yes he was a member of the Hitler Youth but membership was required of all boys his age at that time. He had no choice but to join and he has subsequently repudiated Nazi dogma.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:27 PM

31. He "joined becuase he had to," right?

Bullshit. He wanted to.

He's still acting like a nazi. A theocratic religious nazi.

He even gave his blessing to a Ugandan politician who is battling to make being gay eligible for the death penalty.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/dec/30/disgrace-papal-blessing-ugandan-homophobia

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Response to Archae (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:47 PM

32. Can you back up your claim that he wanted to?

There is no historical evidence that I have seen to that effect. If you have some please share it.

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Response to Archae (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:09 PM

37. He was 14

 

Whether he wanted to or not should not matter now. He was a minor.

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Response to Archae (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:23 PM

46. As a Catholic, this disturbs me....

so I'm trying to find a balanced source that backs this up. So far, the sources I'm finding on this usually have a bias. Do you have a more balance source?

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Response to musical_soul (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:31 PM

47. Okay, nevermind.

Just a quick answer to that point.

Blessing somebody doesn't mean you agree with what they're doing.

It's been pointed out that the Pope also blessed Obama despite disagreeing with him about abortion.

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Response to musical_soul (Reply #47)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:05 AM

48. So Pope Rat the 1rst would be ok if he blessed Hitler?

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:55 PM

36. Maybe so...

but how man child molesters has this person protected?

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #36)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 07:12 PM

60. I would be the first to criticize him for a lot of things including the

issue that you brought up. My point was a narrow once. He was a fourteen year old boy who was forced to join the Nazi Youth. I still think it's unfair to criticize him about that. But there are many other legitimate criticisms.

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Response to Archae (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:09 PM

58. One could say that to anyone

Especially on an internet message board.

I do not like hearing anyone addressed as a "nazi bastard" and that is directed to YOU.

Let the Catholic hatred bashing continue. Why they allow this on this forum is beyond me as it is hateful, injurious to devout Catholics and is therefore indeed harmful to those that do believe strongly in Catholicism.

While I am no fan of Pope Ratzinger, I do not hate him nor this message of good will for the New Year.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:13 PM

2. I would NEVER agree with the men in the pointy hats BUT...

"the prevalence of a selfish and individualistic mindset which also finds expression in an unregulated capitalism, various forms of terrorism and criminality".

I've never heard a Popey type say something so true.

Capitalism is evil.

...terrorism and criminality? Oh ya, the House Reps that are going to continue to hold America and Americans hostage for the richest.

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:43 PM

8. +1,000

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Response to freshwest (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:47 PM

10. BTW...

Happy New Year to ya, freshwest!

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:27 PM

16. Thanks! 'Not everyday is a great day, but everyday we still live is a good day.'

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:17 PM

4. Is the pope pro middle class? n/t

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:30 PM

5. Pope Slams Capitalism

While he lives in an ancient gilded and painted palace full of priceless art wearing embroidered robes 1st designed in like the 9th century

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:32 PM

6. I think he's just mad it replaced feudalism. nt.

 

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:37 PM

18. ! nt

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:39 PM

7. Someone send this link to Paul Ryan.

Let's see if he puts his Catholicism over his Randism. What a conundrum for poor Eddie.

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Response to pamela (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:46 PM

9. Perfect. A few thousand tweets and posts on his Facebook page won't change his mind, but might wake

Last edited Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

up a few of the Catholics who are following him.

Oh, wait, Ayn Rand hated religion more than she loved William Hickman and capitalism, so they won't be reading any of that.

Never mind...

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Response to pamela (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:48 PM

12. "...send this link to Paul Ryan"

ROFL!

We thought of the same thing.

And isn't Newtie a convert...and Sicky Ricky Santorum a cult member?

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:47 PM

11. denouncing "unregulated capitalism" - Isn't that an OCCUPY theme?

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Response to Bozita (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:12 PM

27. Yep! OTV!

Occupy The Vatican!

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:09 PM

13. This from the same jackass

that slammed gay people in his Xmas remarks.

No credibility from an anachronistic piece of shit.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:12 PM

14. Well, I can't believe...

...he put capitalism in the same sentence as terrorism & criminality, where it belongs. Yeah, he's the Pope and all, and we all know the history of Catholicism. But this is something that needed to be said to the world. Why, if you're an American, you think that capiitalism is next to Godlyness, and nothing could be further from the truth! I think the reason he said it is because all the super-rich capitalist parishioners in the Catholic church are threatening the withholding of donations/tithes if their taxes go up. No?

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:13 PM

15. It would mean a lot more, coming from Ratzi, if he hadn't spent his time at the Inquisition

crushing liberation theology into the dust.

Life can only be changed by revolt from below...not by a finger-wagging homily from the Vatican.

Benedict doesn't give a shit about the poor and he never did. All he cares about is "obedience" and "order".

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:42 PM

20. Liberation theology is the only form of Catholicism that

I'll even consider not spitting at. RIP, Archbishop Oscar Romero.

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Response to Rozlee (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:57 PM

24. And, of course, Brazilian archbishop Dom Helder Camera

who said "When I fed the poor, they called me a saint. When I asked why the poor had no food,

They called me a Communist"

Neither of those two would be allowed to go above the level of parish priest(if they were even going to be ordained)in the Church of Ratzi.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:36 PM

17. Sounds like the Catholicism I grew up with.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:38 PM

19. Even a blind nut can find a squirrel sometimes. nt

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:43 PM

21. Corporate Media Will Censor Unless It Is Pope Slamming...

... Reproductive rights. Otherwise, you can't have Ryan facing uncomfortable questions about his love of Ayn Rand versus the Pope's comments.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:44 PM

22. good for him. Hope he sticks with it. /nt

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:48 PM

23. Sez the guy with a gold staff, silk robes, his own city and a legion of servants.

How about you open up your vaults, sell your treasures and feed the fucking poor you helped create?

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Response to TalkingDog (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:04 PM

25. word:

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Response to phantom power (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:14 PM

34. That pic is SO creepy

and wrong.

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Response to phantom power (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:14 AM

51. Seriously, this came out of the mouth of a guy who sits on a gold throne!? (eom)

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Response to TalkingDog (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:34 PM

39. No he won't do that. He wants YOU to pay for the poor he helped create.

After all, he's POPE for Pete's sake. God told him he wants him to sit on a mountain of gold while his lambs starve.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:07 PM

26. Sadly

I doubt it will be anything that the Roman Catholic Church makes a central theme of in its power structures. And, even if they did, I can think of very little as likely to see the end of the Catholic church as a world power as a conflict with Capitalism. Capitalism is the far larger and more influential religion. But I guess that would make a for a win/win conflict for the world, in many ways.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:21 PM

28. A broken clock is right twice a day eom

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:28 PM

38. Exactly what I thought. nt

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:26 PM

30. Pope, just stfu. We don't care what you have to say.

I wish he would slither back to the nazi youth camp or whatever rock he crawled out from under.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:52 PM

33. Like it'll make any difference

Capitalism is far more of a religion in the western world than Christianity ever was.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:53 PM

35. Fuck you, Ratso. nt

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:17 PM

40. Wow, the level of discourse in this thread is really something.

I don't know if it's a new low, but it's pretty low.

Mainly puerile schoolyard retorts as in "fuck you, ratso" or "STFU, Pope," leavened with some accusations of hypocrisy.

Not too many substantive responses to his critique of capitalism, though. Not that it's really new or surprising; popes have been saying similar things for quite a while. It makes eminent sense, in a "love your neighbor" sort of way.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #40)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 10:19 AM

56. If it makes "eminent sense"

why doesn't Mr Ratzinger start selling the riches of the Vatican? Oh yeah, they have to pay billions of dollars in legal fees defending their pedophile buddies.

I'll start giving a fuck what Mr Ratzinger thinks right after he sells his shiny red shoes and his gold throne. He's a clown: it's nice that he also dresses like one so the rest of us can identify him.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:32 PM

41. So when is he turning over the Vatican's vast wealth to the poor?

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:56 PM

42. Too bad he is a hater

more might listen if he wasn't a hater

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:48 PM

43. Here is the actual homily, it is only None paragraphs long

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2013/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20130101_world-day-peace_en.html

Huffington Post is quoting the third paragraph in part, in whole it reads as follows:

Although the world is sadly marked by “hotbeds of tension and conflict caused by growing instances of inequality between rich and poor, by the prevalence of a selfish and individualistic mindset which also finds expression in an unregulated financial capitalism,” as well as by various forms of terrorism and crime, I am convinced that “the many different efforts at peacemaking which abound in our world testify to mankind’s innate vocation to peace. In every person the desire for peace is an essential aspiration which coincides in a certain way with the desire for a full, happy and successful human life. In other words, the desire for peace corresponds to a fundamental moral principle, namely, the duty and right to an integral social and communitarian development, which is part of God’s plan for mankind. Man is made for the peace which is God’s gift. All of this led me to draw inspiration for this Message from the words of Jesus Christ: ‘Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God’ (Mt Five; Nine)” (Message, 1). This beatitude “tells us that peace is both a messianic gift and the fruit of human effort … It is peace with God through a life lived according to his will. It is interior peace with oneself, and exterior peace with our neighbours and all creation” (ibid., 2, 3). Indeed, peace is the supreme good to ask as a gift from God and, at the same time, that which is to be built with our every effort.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:02 PM

44. This thread might be helpful in this situation:


This is politics: No permanent friends | No permanent enemies.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022093997

Some of DU has real difficulty when someone they usually dislike suddenly agrees with them on an important issue. We saw the same sort of freakout when Ron Paul came out against the Homeland Security police state and drone kills.

To DU: Remember. In politics, our permanent loyalties must not be to individuals, but to our values and principles. It's okay to agree with someone you dislike on something important. It does not erase everything else you disagree with them about.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:15 PM

45. What he condemned was capitalism, not necessarily all capitalism.

And may I say God bless him.

My priest said one day that some people act like capitalism was invented by Jesus Christ. Problem is it can lead out to too much selfishness and greed. By contrast, too much socialism can lead out to people losing the right to be individual. I agree with that.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:13 AM

49. Take what you can get

I'm very far indeed from being a fan of this pope, but there are a whole lot of people in the world who take what he has to say very seriously. And since, for once, he's actually saying something useful, I say don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:06 AM

50. The Pope?

Pope who?

You mean he finally found an angle that gets attention? He's tried just about everything from sheer blasphemy against the human race by treachery toward women and children, to pushing bishops toward dividing world politics, to ... now... anti-capitalism rhetoric.

Hypocrisy, pure hypocrisy. I don't give a damn if he is using the "right" words or not. The Catholic Church and its figurehead illusion, the Pope, are the essence of bile crimes against humanity in the name of power and authority over the weak and the powerful.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:24 AM

52. Why doesn't he sell a Bernini or two?

Those paintings, sculptures, mitres, robes, rings, chalices, etc. could feed a few billion people.

The Pieta? The Ecstacy of Saint Theresa?

Hmm???

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:41 AM

53. That sceptre would feed ten thousand people for a week.

But I agree with him about capitalism.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #53)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:08 AM

54. And ten thousand peope would put a buck in the collection plate

 

to replace it. Trust me, church property has been monetized by greedy pols and their lord chancellors many, many times, and always at a loss to the faithful who sacrificed their pennies to accumulate it. It's happening now in fact. And not once to my knowledge has that looted church property gone to feed the hungry. In any case I've never seen that particular staff and I've seen two popes up close and personal, Benny twice. Here's a pic from last October that I posted in another thread:



Happy new year!

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)


Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:45 PM

57. This whole thread is pretty much a disgrace and an embarrassment.

I'm not a Catholic. I don't even believe in a Supreme Being. And I certainly don't agree with some of the Church's retrograde positions on gender and sexuality and the like.

That said, the pope is the spiritual leader of a church that has more than one billion members. And his statement on capitalism was pretty damned progressive. And what is the response on DU? Junior high school insults, sheer hatred, and vitriol. I assume there are some Catholic members of DU. I wonder how they feel about their online peers after reading this crap.

Haters gotta hate, I guess.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #57)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:10 PM

59. +2,000,000,000

One vote for every devout member of this faith.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #57)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 08:12 PM

61. Oh please.

This a-hole is the power behind the anti-women, anti-gay idiocy of his church. Plus, he's a disgusting hypocrite -- the Vatican is one of the biggest grifters and money hoarders on the planet, and he's railing against capitalism? Give me a break. He deserves zero respect.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #61)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:15 PM

63. He's not talking about respect, he's talking about hate.

 

Your comments are fine, but some in this thread are clear violations of DU Community Standards (rude, over-the-top, inappropriate, not to mention unbelievably juvenile) and a few are also violations of TOS ("bigoted hate speech").

What is hate speech? It's communication that incites hatred of an individual or group based on a characteristic such as race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnic origin, age, disability, or religion. It's wrong no matter who it's directed toward and there are much better ways to express disagreement. Instead of reciting predictable schoolyard insults for example wouldn't it be better to discuss actual policies and their effects?

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 08:31 PM

62. Was he wearing his Prada shoes at the time?

He's one to talk.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 11:48 PM

64. "the global financial crisis was proof that capitalism does not protect society's weakest members."

What a coincidence. Neither do priests in their legally unregulated, self protecting world. Does that mean the RCC doesn't work, either?

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 01:17 AM

65. One of the largest land-owners in the world (vatican) decries inequality between rich and poor?

 

To quote a meme: "Let me tell you to give all you have to the poor while I hold this gold cross."

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #65)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:48 PM

66. The Vatican only owns its property in Rome

 

and its nuncios, and Vatican City is about as big as an average urban university. Catholic properties (parishes, hospitals, etc) are typically owned by their local bishop, and since the pope is the bishop of Rome, he only "owns" his Roman property and the Vatican embassies. Here's a discussion of the question posted on DU eight years ago:

happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Dec-26-05 08:35 PM
10. The General Rule is Catholic Property is owned by the Bishop/Diocese

This is based on the old Middle age Concept that the Property of a political/Religious unit is owned by the person in charge of that Political/Religious unit. In the Middle ages (Before modern concepts of land ownership appeared) the King was viewed as owning everything he had NOT sold to someone else (and this is still the theory on Land Titles in the US, you are the "Tenant" of the "King" who since July 4th, 1776 is now your state the land is in NOT the King of England). Wild Animals are owned by the "King" (Now the State) till taken as game EVEN IF ON PROPERTY OWNED BY A PRIVATE OWNER.

In the Middle ages this was Even more severe. If you were the Ruler of a an area you were also viewed as owning everything in that Kingdom or Dukedom or County etc. Bishops were viewed as having that same "power" except restricted to "Religious" property. Thus, unless there is clear evidence to the contrary, any property owned by the Catholic Church in a Diocese is "owned" by that Diocese's Bishop (and thus the Diocese).

You have exceptions, the house of the Papal Nuncio (The Ambassador from the Vatican) is "owned" by the Vatican not the Catholic Bishop of Washington. Other exemptions include Jesuits and Franciscan's (and other religious orders, including female religious orders) Monasteries, Convents, Schools, Retreats etc. are often owned by the Religious Society as opposed to the Diocese. You sometime have disputes when a Parish has its own funds, that the Diocese views as its own (Year to Year operating funds are rarely in dispute, but large endowments are often disputed especially when an old Church is closed i.e. what to do with that Parish's funds given the parish no longer exists).

My point here is a clear picture would take a lot of Research as to how various lands are held within a Diocese. If it is NOT clear otherwise the property belongs to the Diocese (and thus the Bishop).

Note the Pope is the "Bishop of Rome" NOT the "Bishop of the World" thus the only property the pope owns in in the Diocese of Rome EXCEPT where it is clear the papacy is the owner of the property instead of the local Bishop (Papal Nuncio and other Vatican missions are examples of this).

One note on the "Riches" of the Vatican, a lot of it are Art and Sculpture that any secular ruler of the 1500-1800s had to have to show he was a successful ruler. With expansion of Democracy such objects are no longer fashionable but the Vatican has more than most countries and have adopted a policy that other countries have adopted for such arts objects (i.e. put them in Museums so people can see them). The Vatican has several such Museums (Including one on "profane" art i.e. non-religious art objects) in Rome. These art objects are both valuable and in-valuable. I hate to say it the best solution to what to do with them is what the Vatican (and other European Governments with similar Art abjects obtains during the same time period) have done, put them in Museum instead of selling them to private collectors where most people will never see them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5691728&mesg_id=5691862


The long and short of it is that the Vatican owns about as much real estate as a typical state university. Ironically enough, when I was there last October, Italy announced plans to repeal its tax exemptions on all religions properties including the Vatican.

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Response to UrbScotty (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:22 PM

67. So says the queen in her ivory tower...nt

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