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Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:12 AM

Fiscal cliff: Major progress toward deal

Source: Politico

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and Vice President Joe Biden engaged in furious overnight negotiations to avert the fiscal cliff and made major progress toward a year-end tax deal, giving sudden hope to high-stakes talks that had been on the brink of collapse, according to sources familiar with the discussion.

McConnell and Biden, who served in the Senate together for 23 years, are closing in on an agreement that would hike tax rates for families who earn more than $450,000, and individuals who make more than $400,000, according to sources familiar with talks.

The vice president and the Senate minority leader only began talking Sunday, after negotiations between Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and McConnell sputtered.

Sources close to the talks said a deal is now more likely to come together but cautioned that obstacles remain, including how Speaker John Boehner and House Republican leaders react to any tentative agreement.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/fiscal-cliff-hanger-as-deal-in-limbo-85599.html?hp=t1

40 replies, 5445 views

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Arrow 40 replies Author Time Post
Reply Fiscal cliff: Major progress toward deal (Original post)
Keefer Dec 2012 OP
Maraya1969 Dec 2012 #1
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #3
Liberalynn Dec 2012 #6
bunnies Dec 2012 #2
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #4
bunnies Dec 2012 #5
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #7
Flashmann Dec 2012 #9
AAO Dec 2012 #17
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #18
julian09 Dec 2012 #30
bunnies Dec 2012 #32
Botany Dec 2012 #8
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #19
Kablooie Dec 2012 #36
Liberalynn Dec 2012 #10
Ligyron Dec 2012 #11
Owl Dec 2012 #15
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #20
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #26
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #29
Plucketeer Dec 2012 #24
DearAbby Dec 2012 #12
Flashmann Dec 2012 #21
asjr Dec 2012 #13
still_one Dec 2012 #14
plethoro Dec 2012 #23
Owl Dec 2012 #16
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #22
plethoro Dec 2012 #25
BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #28
plethoro Dec 2012 #31
BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #34
plethoro Dec 2012 #35
bucolic_frolic Dec 2012 #27
Kablooie Dec 2012 #39
julian09 Dec 2012 #33
yellowcanine Dec 2012 #37
Kablooie Dec 2012 #38
kickysnana Dec 2012 #40

Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:16 AM

1. So do the chuckle heads still get to vote on this? Or maybe they they only need a simple

majority now. I think that is what I heard is going to happen.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:18 AM

3. Boehner will have to bring it to the floor

The Senate will obviously vote, and not filibuster.

If Boehner brings it to the floor, they will get all the Dems and peel off some GOPers to get it through.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:29 AM

6. I think that is the most likely scenario

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:17 AM

2. If the publican house wouldnt even do it for those making over a million dollars...

Theyre sure as hell not gonna vote for this either.

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Response to bunnies (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:19 AM

4. House Dems +60 or so GOPs

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:23 AM

5. And Boehner looks like the impotent ass-hat that he is...

Works for me!

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:35 AM

7. If the Democratic causus holds ...

we need 31 republicans to cross over, Certainly there are 31 semi-sane republicans in the House ... or failing that, certainly there are 31 House republicans that don't want to defend a "No" vote on this issue in the 2014 election.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:47 AM

9. Certainly there are 31 semi-sane republicans in the House

Man......I wouldn't want to wager anything substantial on that notion......Not to say there are none....I'd think the semi-sane republicans in the House could be counted on one hand,probably with fingers left over.....

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Response to Flashmann (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:02 AM

17. Just remember semi-sane = semi-insane.

 

The truth hurts...

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Response to AAO (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:03 AM

18. True. n/t

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Response to bunnies (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:14 AM

30. They didn't vote for it because it would never pass senate and become law.

 

They saw no sense in voting for a tax increase and possibly face a tea party challenge for nothing.

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Response to julian09 (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:18 AM

32. "they saw no sense"

I think that sentence should stop right there.

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:38 AM

8. In the first days as Vice President Biden was told by a friend in the ...

.... senate that McConnell and all of the senate republicans had pledged not to
work with the President and yet now that the shit is going to hit the fan Mitch
calls Biden to get his help to solve the mess he and Boner helped to make.



2014 we have to get these fuckers out of office.

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Response to Botany (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:09 AM

19. Interestingly ...

They'll work with Bidden; but not President Obama, who they pledged not to work with from the start.

{boehner and mcconnell, on a donor conference call} "Well, at least the ni ... erm, He doesn't get the credit."

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Response to Botany (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:10 PM

36. It won't look good for Obama if Biden gets an agreement.

I know it's the GOP that has the problem but it will look like Obama wasn't able to deal while Biden could.
I wish this could be made a major issue showing that racism is ruling the GOP.

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:47 AM

10. Just read the story

Interesting to note there were even PUKE Senators who thought Chained CPI was a bad idea and bad politics. Haha Mchinless(credit to Stephanie Miller) can't even get members or your own party to agree with you.

So Mr. Minority Senate Leader and Mr. President can we just drop all talk of Chained CPI now and forever and raise the SS cap instead?

In the President's case I will stand by my word and forgive you for ever mentioning it or offering it, as long as you never mention or offer it again. I believe you are a good man with a heart and a conscience and you do care about the good of the country, even though sometimes I may disagree with your methods.

Mchinless, however, I will still hold you responsible for every crappy PUKE idea you have ever proposed, or will ever propose, because I know your only motive is protecting the wealthy period, and you could give a crap about the rest of us.

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:48 AM

11. Personally, I hope they just go over the so-called "cliff"

Come back in Jan with more Dems and less Repugs in Congress, pass a tax break for 98% of Americans leaving it alone on $200K and above. Let the sequestration occur when it does too, then keep those cuts to Defense and re-instate the others.

Although it doesn't even get us close to where we want to be -- that's better than making a for shit deal now.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:55 AM

15. I agree. Going over the cliff is a much better deal.

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Response to Owl (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:16 AM

20. Not for ...

the 2+ million people who will not receive a U/C check this week; nor for the many millions who will lose the child-care subsidies that allow them to work; nor for those, like the fellow DUer that posted, who will be homeless because their housing subsidy stopped.

But yes ... it's best for those of us that can afford to ride it out.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:52 AM

26. Gosh, you are the guy who accused me of 'hiding behind the elderly and disabled' by advocating

that their benefits go untouched yet here you are, same guy, constructing a barricade out of other groups whose safety nets should not be touched. Ironic, hypocritical, and very self serving to criticize another for doing what you do so easily.

What you posted to me:
"Stop It! I would respect you more if you would stop hiding behind the poor and the elderly and the disabled and veterans (who would have been exempted, i.e., protected from the effect of) and just come out and say, YOU don't want YOUR SS benefit cut!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022096175#post11

There are words for folks who think they are free and entitled to make use of rhetorical tactics they also announce certain others should not use. I say if it is good for the goose, it is good for the gander.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:10 AM

29. Yes ...

I did. You continually promote the false narrative that President Obama would savage the ederly, the poor, the disabled and veterans, through the proposal of a chained CPI that exemted these groups. But you never get around to mention that any proposal that he would have offered, would have concluded that term.

I have also said:

Icare about the most vulnerable citizens that will be hurt the day after tomorrow more then I care to protect my $40/year, 2 decades from now.


You have not.

BTW, I apologize for not being gay-focused enough for you. Now stop stalking me.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:46 AM

24. I agree as well

MAybe the reverberations would shake the populace of this once great nation back to conciousness. Notice I DID say "maybe".

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:49 AM

12. Minority Majority vote

only way they can get it through to house, completely bypassing the "Chuckleheads" causing a minor explosion within the GOP and the base. Teabillies are being tossed under the bus...the begining of the "shunning process"

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Response to DearAbby (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:17 AM

21. Teabillies are being tossed under the bus

MMMMMmmmmmmmmm.....That makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over.....Shame it isn't literally true.....

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:53 AM

13. I don't know about the rest of you but I feel I

have been watching a movie for the last four years. It is not yet finished but the media have been there the entire time. They are the directors. We are the producers. The only way we know what is or is not going on is through the media. We sometimes get information on how things are going, but it is controlled by the media. The media controls acid reflux and doles it out on a regular basis. We are at least allowed to decide who are the good guys and who are the bad guys, but that can be changed overnight. I am fed up with this movie and I know it will not be in line for an Academy award for 2012 but just might make it for 2013. I will wait until the president holds his State of the Union message before I quit in order to see who in the Republican party this time yells out "You lie."

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:54 AM

14. bullshit, the public is being played for suckers, they will probably come up with a deal that

essentially kicks the can till next year.

This is the worst congress ever

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Response to still_one (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:45 AM

23. This is exactly what is happening. This phony deal will be a disaster....nft

 

dddddd

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:00 AM

16. This would be a crappy agreement! Biden, what are you doing?

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Response to Owl (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:23 AM

22. How is one paragraph ...

in a four page article ... that talks about one term being negotiated, enough to assess the quality of the deal?

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Response to Owl (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:47 AM

25. Any deal by Biden diminishes the President, who is

 

already somewhat diminished by the chained CPI offering. The Corporatists within and without the political structure will have their ducks in a row better next time. Count on it.

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Response to plethoro (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:00 AM

28. The President is only diminished by the chained CPI by the ignorant

who believe Social Security is a-ok, who got theirs, who don't understand exactly what the chained CPI is, who would rather wait for a Republican president and Congress to strengthen social security their own special way, and who put their fingers in their ears and go "la-la-la" knowing damn well that there will be an automatic TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT CUT by 2033 in social security benefits if nothing changes by 2033. They'd rather take that 25% cut in earned benefits by then than take the 0.3% slower rate growth of the *earned benefits AFTER ten years of receiving *100% s.s. based on income.

Of course those continue to excoriate President Obama for the chained CPI don't bother looking at President Obama's track record of strengthening and lengthening Medicare AND strengthening, lengthening, and expanding Medicaid OR they believe that although he did these things for the other two, he'll do a 180 about face and focus on destroying social security.

Jezus . . . we are a nation of idiots.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:17 AM

31. I think you are probably as wrong as possible...

 

The chained CPI cut merely adds another wound to Social Security and opens the way for more serious wounds. Do you in your wildest dreams think that if a chained CPI cut was allowed that the corporatists who direct Obama, like they did in February 2009 when Obamacare was being hatched, are going to not come back for more cuts to Social Security quickly? Strengthening and and lengthening Medicare....? Did you not read his proposal that caused Boner to come back with plan B? Obama's discussed his intent to cut Social Security in a meeting with George Will and Steven Barlett even before inaguration. And now to Obamacare. How many companies are going to discontinue employee paid health insurance in 2014 when Obamacare takes over? And how many waivers have been given? My wife, for one, and many other nurses are planning to leave their jobs end of 2013 based on INFORMATION THEY HAVE GOTTEN FROM THEIR EMPLOYERS. And wait until the corporatists work their magic on Obamacare after it is official...

Thanks for you post, but we differ so far in perception, it makes no sense to discuss this more. America is imploding while it attacks everyone in the world. It is the British Empire redux. I voted for Obama and would do so again, but for way different reasons than you.

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Response to plethoro (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:46 AM

34. When you begin with, "the corporatists who direct Obama" you lose all credibility.

NOT A SINGLE POL who is in Congress is clean of corporate money, be it from Unions to KockBros money. To single out President Obama is to show ignorance of the facts. You do know that Labor Unions are incorporated as well, right? Don't you like labor unions?

Obama's discussed his intent to cut Social Security in a meeting with George Will and Steven Barlett even before inaguration.

Can I get a link to that accusation?

And now to Obamacare. How many companies are going to discontinue employee paid health insurance in 2014 when Obamacare takes over?


Employee-based health care is NOT a good thing. I know you were taught that it is, but it really isn't true. Every western civilized and wealthy country DOES NOT buy their health care from employers. They buy their own and they pay a monthly premium FAR LESS than in the United States from private companies. Yep. Germany, Holland, France, Belgium . . . they all buy their own health care insurance from corporate health insurance companies and they have it MUCH better than we do even with employer-based health care.

Also, consider the savings to you through the Medical Loss Ratio (an ObamaCare provision) when the employer buys the health insurance for you. If the health insurance company doesn't meet the Medical Loss Ratio (use 80% of premiums for the insured, 85% benchmark for employers) they MUST issue you a refund of said premiums. So even though you pay your part for employer-based health insurance, you won't get the savings paid back to you. Your employer does. How is that a good thing?

Also, starting October 2013, there will be TWO U.S. Supported health insurance companies the Heritage Foundation called, "a robust public option", which was also contained in the PPACA (ObamaCare).

Yes, we're so far apart because I understand that President Obama isn't the bogeyman some on this MB claim he is based on what he's already gotten done for us.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #34)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:07 PM

35. I stand adamantly by my post.....

 

This conversation is over.

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:54 AM

27. Maybe the House will scuttle it

But I don't hold out much hope on that.

Once they all want to go home from fatique, and no one wants the
Cliff blame, they'll all chant 'yes' and put a positive spin on it.

What was so bad about the fiscal cliff? It was to get the country to
pay its bills, that was the whole idea, no? This deal won't do that as
well, it's just more delay.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:24 PM

39. The house said they won't put it to a vote Monday night.

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:28 AM

33. I don't like going from $250,000 to $450,000 but if they must

 

they should tax the portion between the $250,000 and $450,000 at 37% an increase of 2% and $450,000 and above at 39.6% an increase back to Clinton era.

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:15 PM

37. Mitch and Joe pulled an all nighter?

Maybe negotiating during timeouts of the Redskins Cowboys game?

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:22 PM

38. House Republican leadership says they won’t rush to pass a bill in the middle of Monday night.

According to the Politico article.

They've got to go out, get drunk and celebrate the new year of course.
Maybe sometime after they get over their hangovers they can peruse the new bill and decide whether its good enough to put to a vote.
They have to make sure it fits tea party standards because heaven forbid a bill that Democrats vote for.

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Response to Keefer (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:26 PM

40. The Dems won't just give us stuff because we deserve it, we're going to tell Dad (Biden)!

Hope we didn't cave....again.

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