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Sun Dec 30, 2012, 08:02 PM

Hugo Chavez: Venezuela leader suffers 'new complications'

Source: BBC

31 December 2012 Last updated at 00:56 GMT

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has suffered "new complications" after a cancer operation in Cuba, his vice-president has said.

In a televised address from Cuba, Nicolas Maduro said Mr Chavez continued to be in a "delicate state".

Mr Chavez underwent his fourth cancer operation on 11 December in Cuba but suffered a respiratory infection.

-snip-

Mr Maduro did not give details about Mr Chavez's condition but said the latest complications came amid the respiratory infection.

-snip-


Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20873265

87 replies, 8960 views

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Arrow 87 replies Author Time Post
Reply Hugo Chavez: Venezuela leader suffers 'new complications' (Original post)
Eugene Dec 2012 OP
MADem Dec 2012 #1
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #2
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #3
Bradical79 Dec 2012 #4
JackRiddler Dec 2012 #14
bemildred Dec 2012 #5
Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #6
joshcryer Dec 2012 #7
Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #9
joshcryer Dec 2012 #12
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #10
joshcryer Dec 2012 #11
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #13
joshcryer Dec 2012 #15
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #16
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #18
joshcryer Dec 2012 #20
Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #28
joshcryer Dec 2012 #30
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #31
joshcryer Dec 2012 #19
Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #21
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #23
Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #25
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #29
Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #40
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #32
joshcryer Dec 2012 #37
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #46
bitchkitty Jan 2013 #63
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #52
joshcryer Dec 2012 #57
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #33
joshcryer Dec 2012 #38
polly7 Dec 2012 #42
joshcryer Dec 2012 #45
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #53
joshcryer Dec 2012 #55
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #56
joshcryer Dec 2012 #58
bitchkitty Jan 2013 #64
Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #17
joshcryer Dec 2012 #22
Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #26
joshcryer Dec 2012 #27
MADem Dec 2012 #48
MADem Dec 2012 #36
MADem Dec 2012 #34
Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #43
joshcryer Dec 2012 #49
MADem Dec 2012 #62
Judi Lynn Jan 2013 #69
MADem Jan 2013 #78
Judi Lynn Jan 2013 #81
MADem Jan 2013 #84
joshcryer Dec 2012 #8
MADem Dec 2012 #39
bemildred Dec 2012 #50
joshcryer Dec 2012 #51
bemildred Dec 2012 #54
joshcryer Dec 2012 #59
bemildred Dec 2012 #60
MADem Dec 2012 #61
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #24
polly7 Dec 2012 #35
joshcryer Dec 2012 #41
polly7 Dec 2012 #44
joshcryer Dec 2012 #47
MADem Jan 2013 #65
msanthrope Jan 2013 #66
Judi Lynn Jan 2013 #68
msanthrope Jan 2013 #71
Judi Lynn Jan 2013 #73
msanthrope Jan 2013 #74
Judi Lynn Jan 2013 #75
msanthrope Jan 2013 #76
Judi Lynn Jan 2013 #77
Bacchus4.0 Jan 2013 #86
MADem Jan 2013 #79
MADem Jan 2013 #85
Judi Lynn Jan 2013 #67
MADem Jan 2013 #80
Judi Lynn Jan 2013 #82
MADem Jan 2013 #83
Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #70
Judi Lynn Jan 2013 #72
MzShellG Jan 2013 #87

Response to Eugene (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 08:44 PM

1. Pneumonia? nt

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:05 PM

2. May President Chavez heal quickly.

Or, if this truly is his time, may his suffering be brief.

I hate to say it, but they should probably swear him in now just to shut the constitutional vultures up. Just send a judge over to Havana already.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 11:49 PM

3. I don't think it's time.

It may not be that serious. I got pneumonia both times that I was hospitalized, and he did have major surgery.

You know that if he got a splinter in his finger and it got infected, certain news orgs and certain "posters" on this board would be trumpeting his imminent death. Right now his illness has them so excited that I doubt they have a clean pair of underwear among themselves. It would be pathetic if it weren't so disgusting.

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:36 AM

4. Considering what cancer treatment can do to the immune system

I wouldn't wish even an infected finger cut on the guy.

Really, without being part of his medical team, I doubt anyone will really know how bad off he is.

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:56 PM

14. It excites them so much they declare him dead...

on a daily basis. See some usual-suspect examples in the next subthread. Contrast the bloodthirst and anticipation at the sickness of a real people's leader in his prime, compared to the hypocrisy and get-well wishes last week for the ancient American war criminal, GHWB, one of history's great monsters.

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:39 AM

5. Frankly, I'm surprised he made it to the end of the year.

Those Cuban doctors must be good.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:54 AM

6. then again he may not have

The Cuban and Ven administrations aren't exactly forthcoming.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:08 PM

7. Yep, third "recovery," third "deterioration."

In Venezuela the information minister said that he was in a bad state, then Maduro said he was "up walking around" then they blamed the "private media" on the "gossip" and "misinformation" and the information minister stuck to Maduro's (obviously false lie) that Chavez was "up walking around." Had he been up walking around there would've been pictures, propaganda, pictures of Chavez holding the latest Granma, etc, etc. The Cubans would've not allowed Chavez "up walking around" to go unnoticed.

This stuff is intended solely to save face at this point. edit: oh god I just read a really cynical rumor that they're going to keep him alive until Jan 5th so that the fascist Cabello can be sworn in as President, then pow, Maduro gets ousted.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:31 PM

9. Cuba is calling the shots

I assume they want to get everything and everyone in order so the transition will not negatively impact Cuba.

I suspect that it might already be over and announcements will keep coming that Hugo is getting worse until its politically expedient to announce his death.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:54 PM

12. Sounds like Maduro is making sure they don't do that.

Last edited Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)

He's staying in Cuba until Chavez passes. You can be sure if he passes Maduro will call it.

edit: I have changed my source to the very liberal Havana Times, since people here don't like speedy and accurate reports even if they don't contest them and prefer to smear other posters

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:35 PM

10. Cynical rumor indeed - care to post your source? Do you have a source? n/t

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:41 PM

11. It's a rumor, there's no such thing as "sourcing" a rumor.

I can post blogs, forums, and whatnot, but it's still a rumor. If you were familiar with Venezuela blog sources and forums, you would not require someone to "source" you it.

It's a really quickly tested rumor because Jan 5th is when the assembly votes in the president of the assembly, who would take over if Chavez dies before the 10th. I don't know if it's true. But you must agree that it would be really cynical if that's what happens, right? If Maduro, Chavez' chosen successor, gets kicked out of Venezuela? Surely you wouldn't be for that...

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:19 PM

13. But you said you read it - I assume you read it somewhere.

Surely you can share your source, since you felt compelled to bring up such an....interesting rumor in the first place?

Otherwise people are going to think that you pulled it right out of your ass. But you wouldn't do anything like that, would you? LOL

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:15 PM

15. I read it on the ND forums.

I can't find it now but I'm not going to try because it seems it's bunk anyway since Madruo is staying in Cuba until Chavez passes. (Thus preventing this from happening regardless.)

I would look for the source, btw, but you're one of the nastiest people to me on these forums, and I have no desire to waste effort when it will not be appreciated and when as a rumor it's not relevant.

edit, you know what, since I looked again just now and it was on the first page I think I will link it, despite how nasty you are to me.

Happy New Year.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:33 PM

16. Nasty?

I don't think it's nasty to call you out for posting right wing propaganda. It's interesting that you post the Twitter page of Nelson Bocaranda.

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:26 PM

18. Unbelievable. I saw his wiki., he works for pure anti-Chavez RCTV and El Universal.

Anyone in his right mind, (not right-wing mind) would be the slightest bit interested in what either of those coup-involved places deem to try to tell the public.

Thanks, bitchkitty.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:50 PM

20. Source accuracy is more important than anything else.

Bocaranda has been spot on.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:15 PM

28. His truthtelling seems to infuriate the government (and its supporters)

The journalist has twice broken news about Hugo Chávez's illnesses – his scoops were denied then confirmed by officials
Share 26
inShare.1Email Rory Carroll in Caracas The Guardian, Thursday 15 March 2012 10.00 EDT
The radio and print journalist broke the news last year that the president had cancer. Photograph: Jorge Silva/Reuters
A gossip columnist has been nicknamed Venezuela's unofficial information minister after revealing closely guarded secrets about President Hugo Chávez's cancer.

Nelson Bocaranda has shaken the country and infuriated the government by twice breaking dramatic news about the president's illness, making his tweets and columns more reliable, in the eyes of many, than official statements. Each scoop – he revealed the president's cancer last summer and its recurrence last month – prompted scorn and threats from officialdom only to be confirmed later by Chávez himself.

The 66-year-old radio and print journalist, reminiscent of the late British columnist Nigel Dempster, has become a must-read for politicians, voters, diplomats, investors and others with an interest in Chávez and Venezuela's presidential election.

His Runrunes ("murmurs") website, and Twitter accounts, @NelsonBocaranda and @RunRunesWeb, drip-feed information that Bocaranda says he receives from sources in Havana, where the president is being treated, and across Latin America and the US.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/15/nelson-bocaranda-venezuela-information

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:41 PM

30. His Cuban sources are the most infuriating I think.

Cuba is thought to be able to keep a very tight lid on things. It's probable that Cuba did several shakeups within their ranks each time that Bocaranda has broken news. And unlike others, he doesn't seem to break anything until after he's confirmed it.

If a source is good I have no problem citing it.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:23 PM

31. Truth seems to be a relative concept for you and your pals. n/t

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:49 PM

19. Bocaranda was the first to break Chavez cancer.

He's been accurate.

And your nastiness to me transcends just one post.

btw, no thank you for posting the source? No appreciation? Didn't think so. What a piece of work. As for a source, I provide it, then deflect and go on about an entirely different post.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:51 PM

21. yeah, he won the Venezuela journalism award. He seems highly respected. n/t

s

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:55 PM

23. Awarded by other oligarchy-controlled "news" outlets. Prestigious, for sure. n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:05 PM

25. and you know what about Venezuela now? you didn't even know what reggaeton is. n/t

ss

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:39 PM

29. Just as right-wing trolls don't know what democracy is. n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:53 PM

40. so you are afraid of those who tell the truth? and consider them rightwingers n/t

s

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:25 PM

32. Knowing about reggaeton is your criteria for what, exactly?

Because you know about reggaeton, you are free to post stories and blogs from right wing media sources?

Someone has to know about reggaeton to care about social justice and democracy? You're being awfully petty.

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:48 PM

37. It just shows the lack of caring for honesty and accuracy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11087249

Basically calling others right wingers and such is an Emmanuel Goldstein to shut down discussion. There's no genuine desire to get to actual facts, honesty, integrity.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:59 PM

46. "Sometimes the weight of the world is simply too much to bear": Henri, Le Chat Noir.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:16 AM

63. LOL n/t

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:21 PM

52. I didn't call anyone a right winger.

I said that they, or you, or whomever, were posting right wing sources. And there you go answering for Bacchus again. Can I be blamed for thinking that you're close?

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #52)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:55 PM

57. You have in other threads to the same posters.

Indeed, you have directly called me a right winger in other posts.

So don't be cheeky in your nastiness toward me in this thread.

Thanks.

In fact, we've been over this "right wing sources" shit before, because you love to call people nasty stuff when you can't refute their facts. I should've simply been patient this time, but I know Bacchus4.0 isn't one to call me nasty things for my sources, and usually I wait, but this is a rapidly developing issue. Next time I'll wait. I'll be out for the duration of the night, but if Chavez dies tomorrow and some "right wing source" (one that we know is reliable) posts it, I will simply wait patiently for the government to officiate it. Otherwise I'm done with taking the brunt of the nastiness tonight.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:27 PM

33. Thank you for posting your right wing source. n/t

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #33)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:51 PM

38. The nastiness toward me continues.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:56 PM

42. As always, my sympathies.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #42)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:59 PM

45. *shrug* I'd hate to have such a nasty character toward some.

I tend to try to be civil, not lie about other people, and generally compose a nice substantiative discussion.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:24 PM

53. I'll tell you what.

To paraphrase the late Adlai Stevenson, if you stop using and posting right wing sources, I'll stop pointing out that you're using right wing sources. Sound fair?

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #53)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:48 PM

55. My accurate source has been replaced.

The problem is that you cannot actually refute my sources, and indeed, it's difficult for you to accept them unless they come sanitized for your sensibilities.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #55)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:54 PM

56. The Twitter page of a mouthpiece for the right wing oligarchy can hardly

be considered credible or accurate. No, I do not accept such sources.

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Response to bitchkitty (Reply #56)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:56 PM

58. He's been the most accurate of them all.

I know facts are hard to accept. If you want early reports on Chavez' health, he's going to get it right. If you want to wait for the hand waving of the Venezuelan government who lies to you, go ahead and listen to them.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #15)


Response to joshcryer (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:25 PM

17. yes, total bs from this administration isn't it? Diosdado Cabello

the literal translation of his name would be "God-given Hair"



not so much.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:55 PM

22. If Cabello does do a coup...

...it'll be interesting to see how many here support him.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:06 PM

26. that's the big question isn't it? , the aftermath. n/t

s

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:13 PM

27. Yep, and Diosdado Cabello is definitely positioning himself.

He even has already come out criticizing Capriles for having a freaking vacation after his long fought elections. Campaign mode already. If they do a smear campaign against Maduro and tries to get him deported it'll be hilarious to see the responses here.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 06:06 PM

48. Wasn't he a player in the 92 coup attempt? He's got experience...!

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:47 PM

36. In English, apparently, it translates to "Donald Trump?" nt

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:46 PM

34. There's a rumor he's on a respirator--that's pretty serious.

The Iranians and Russians are writing pieces that speak to what will happen with their nations' VZ relations post-Chavez.

The only picture I've seen of Maduro's trip to Cuba, besides the TV appearance, was one of him being greeted at the airport. There were no pics with Chavez, either sitting up in a hospital bed, or in a chair in a track suit.

What we don't see is sometimes more telling than what we're given.

I can't speak to the accuracy of these reports, but people ARE talking:
http://www.voxxi.com/hugo-chavez-inauguration-doesnt-show/

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20121231/world/deathbed-rumours-spread-over-chavez.451536

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Response to MADem (Reply #34)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:57 PM

43. the government previously said he was exercising

I posted an article in the Latin American forum on the life support. However, since the government refuses to be honest, rumour is what we got.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #43)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 06:08 PM

49. Yeah that was the most messed up part...

The fucking information minister told the truth and the private media simply said what the information minister said and were called mercenaries by the VP as the VP lied to the peoples' faces.

Think about that for a second, OK? It's like the White House Press Chief said to the private media, "The President isn't doing well." Truthfully. And then the private media goes, "The President isn't doing well." Then the Vice President comes out (and lies) and says, "The private media are against the Revolution, they are evil, and liars, the President is up walking around!"

Several days later the same VP admits, "The President isn't doing well." Now it sounds like he's sitting at Chavez' death bed to avoid Cabello taking over.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #43)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:46 PM

62. Yes, I read an "up and walking around" quote several days ago--and immediately wondered "Where's the

PICTURE?"

There's always a PICTURE when these kinds of claims are made--the track suits, the newspaper with today's headlines displayed, the cups of tea and cookies on the table, the cheery smiles, and the assertion that there was a long and hearty discussion (even if, in actual fact, the posing took five minutes and the patient went straight back to bed).

No picture. Doesn't smell right to me.

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Response to MADem (Reply #62)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:40 PM

69. Are you sure the public is able to get a good long look into the hospital rooms

of other heads of state?

Where's a photo of George H. W. Bush, in his hospital room, anyway?

Do you happen to have any photos of Ronald Reagan after he was shot, while he was recuperating from that gunshot?

What makes you think you think you have a god-given right to jam your schnozz right up there at bedside to get a good long gape at sick people who don't know you?

Trolls at D.U. were claiming Castro was dead forever after his surgeries. When the first photo emerged, long after the last surgery, a photo of the head of the Russian Orthodox Church visiting Castro, they claimed it was photoshopped and Castro was still dead.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #69)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:54 AM

78. Last time I checked, George H. W. Bush isn't a sitting head of state and hadn't been one for two

long decades. No one is looking to him to run a country--so that's a major "equivalence fail."

Reagan left the hospital in less than two weeks (shot 30 Mar, home 11 Apr)--Chavez hasn't been seen since 11 Dec, and the story keeps changing.

And there were plenty of video tapes and pictures of Reagan while he was in the hospital and when he left--where's the pics of Hugo? There have been pics of him every OTHER time he's gone to Cuba--every single time--with Castro, with family...why not NOW?


Four days after Reagan was shot--in the hospital.

President Ronald Reagan returns to the White House on April 11, 1981 after being shot on March 30.

You are being deliberately obtuse and defensive about this topic. I'm not saying anything negative, I'm providing facts. Facts like no one has seen any video of the guy, or heard his voice, for THREE weeks. Facts like the story keeps changing--and I'm talking about the story coming out of the GOVERNMENT--not the blogs or newspaper reports. The fact that there are no pictures, this time, when there have been EVERY other time, is SUSPICIOUS. If you are so naive as to not smell a rat, well, that's your worldview.

IMO, something is UP--the guy is sicker than they are letting on, or he's in a coma, or he's already dead.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/venezuela-vp-says-he-has-visited-hugo-chavez-twice-in-cuba-and-will-return-to-venezuela/2013/01/01/3d57264a-5481-11e2-89de-76c1c54b1418_story.html

Venezuelans on edge amid shifting signals about Hugo Chavez’s condition 3 weeks after surgery


Chavez has not been seen or heard from since the Dec. 11 operation, and officials have reported a series of ups and downs in his recovery — the most recent, on Sunday, announcing that new complications from a respiratory infection had put the president in a “delicate” state.

Speculation has grown since Maduro announced those latest troubles, which were a sharp shift from his remark nearly a week earlier that the president had been up and walking.

In Tuesday’s interview, Maduro did not provide any new details about Chavez’s complications. But he joined other Chavez allies in urging Venezuelans to ignore gossip, saying rumors are being spread due to “the hatred of the enemies of Venezuela.”

He didn’t refer to any rumors in particular, though one of them circulating online had described Chavez as being in a coma.

Political opponents of Chavez have complained that the government hasn’t told the country nearly enough about his health.


Venezuelans like to party--if the guy was on the mend, the government wouldn't have cancelled the festivities. That was the biggest clue of all, IMO, that things aren't going well.

We aren't talking about Castro, or trolls, here. We're talking about Chavez.

Who hasn't been seen in three weeks.

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Response to MADem (Reply #78)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:20 AM

81. He hasn't been seen or heard by the public. Imagine that. Could it be because he's hospitalized?

I misfired by bringing up the name of the right-wing god, Reagan. Just because I didn't notice his photos clearly doesn't mean they weren't there.

He was just dinged, obviously, not struggling with a cancer for a very long time. Quite the difference.

I do NOT want to stick my nose into the hospital room where someone is struggling with a serious medical situation.

Why SHOULD the corporate media shuffle images of Hugo Chavez in the hospital around? The same corporate media which pretended he had resigned when he had actually been forced at gunpoint to leave his office can show me photos of their Aunt Fannie's knickers and it wouldn't matter, anyway.

Sometimes it better just to use your head. Use it to respect the people of the left in this world, stop trying to spend your time raging against their choices in their own leaders. The right wing is NEVER going to get the chance to control the whole world, the people of the world won't allow it.

Might as well cool off your jets and wait to find out what has happened to the man without raving on about how suspicious you are over missing photos you believe he owes you regarding his physical condition.

As has been pointed out, the Venezuelan government only cancelled a government-sponsored blowout. As reported in one news article, the country went right ahead and filled the sky with fireworks and carried on EXACTLY as usual. Any worthy government would ALSO put aside government parties when the head of state was very ill. You know that.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #81)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:02 AM

84. Your argument fails. George Bush is a private citizen now. Hugo Chavez is not.

What's with the childish "right wing god" shit? That has nothing to do with this discussion--you're the one who brought up Reagan--not me.

The fact of the matter is that his hospitalization WAS covered in the news media.

Sometimes, it IS better to use your head--I don't understand why you're behaving as though asking where the heck a sitting head of state is, and how he's doing, is somehow "disrespectful."

That argument doesn't fly, and it is rather pathetic that you continue to try to shop it.

I think I'll listen to the concerns of Chavez supporters on the streets of Venezuela before I will listen to your propagandizing on a discussion board. They're telling the truth. This shit is NOT normal and they are quite properly concerned.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2013/01/20131103735575119.html

Backers of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez were in no mood to celebrate New Year's Eve as the cancer-stricken leftist leader took a turn for the worse, fueling doubts about his political future.

The streets of Caracas were quiet on Monday night as the government called off festivities after announcing that Chavez suffered "new complications" from a respiratory infection following his fourth cancer-related surgery on December 11....At a meeting point for Chavez followers in the Plaza Bolivar, "Chavistas" teared up as they contemplated the health of their leader.

"We are all praying for the health of our commander," said Miriam, one of the people gathered at the square. "There can't be any party here."


Show me a photo of Hugo Chavez, taken after December 11 of 2012.

You can't. There have been no pictures of him published since he went to Cuba--THIS time.

The last times he went, and was operated on, and it was serious, and difficult, there were pictures.

And you don't find this lack of pictures this time curious?

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Response to bemildred (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:12 PM

8. Sadly, I think that had he chose the US or Brazil...

...he'd have had a much better outlook. He may not have been able to have campaigned, however, and the campaign is what probably accelerated the illness.

Cuba's cancer survival rate is lower than that of Venezuela. I think he chose Cuba for privacy.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:53 PM

39. Absolutely. Brazil has been doing some wonderful stuff -- real state of the art.

He wouldn't have come to USA for ideological reasons, I don't think--but Brazil; they are a neighbor and they offered help repeatedly.

Instead, he chose ideology and secrecy over competence. His care has been botched from the get-go, is what I read--some Russian docs had washed their hands of the case after he was butchered in one of the early rounds.

Supposedly, he has some sort of sarcoma; it's in the muscle and lymph nodes, and they can't beat it down.

Even Castro finally called in docs from Spain when he wasn't healing properly--there comes a time when ya gotta put your health first, but he didn't do it, and he's paying for it.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:53 PM

50. I don't share your enthusiasm for our cancer care.

Having watched it in action too many times.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #50)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:13 PM

51. I'm sorry to hear that.

UT in Houston though is considered one of the best cancer research and treatment facilities in the world, if not the single best research and treatment facility in the world. To be sure, he'd get the best care he could expect anywhere. Apparently even Russian and Spanish (Spaniard) doctors were helping him in Cuba. The plebs sadly get recommended therapies and doctors follow suit to get paid. In the event of a high profile individual like himself he would have got all the attention in the world. Nothing would've been spared, as it was not in Cuba.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #51)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:25 PM

54. Well, I want to be fair, there is some stuff they do now that is like magic.

And some people do get cured. That's awesome.

And some of the prospects on the horizon are downright exciting, if they can make them routine.

But a lot of times there is not much they can do, or they are just buying some time, and it's not pretty. I've been around a few of those, some closer than others.

And I've had the feeling with Chavez that he was in that latter category from the beginning.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #54)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:57 PM

59. I can agree with that.

Though I think he went untreated for his campaign, as well, and I think a proper treatment regime would've kept him off his feet for the duration of 2012 at the minimum. So it was probably not something he would've accepted anyway.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #59)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:01 PM

60. Stress is not good, yes.

I don't share your dislike for him, but he's not always the most realistic guy. You get to thinking you are irreplaceable and you don't take the necessary steps in a timely way. But this is all speculation, we'll have to see what happens.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #51)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:17 PM

61. Anderson in TX kept my cousin's partner alive for a long time, with decent QOL for most of the time.

He was diagnosed with what Teddy Kennedy had, about a year and change before Teddy was diagnosed. He lived for more than a year after Teddy died. They fought like hell and were pretty bold in their treatment. He did pretty well until about six months before he finally died, at that point he went down hill fast.

I've had some friends get some very good results at MA General, too, and quite recently, with that fancy keyhole surgery.

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:59 PM

24. Reuters gets right to work, trying to eviscerate Venezuela's Vice President:

Tuesday, January 01, 2013
Analysis - Venezuela's Maduro channels Chavez, lacks his charisma
By Daniel Wallis and Brian Ellsworth

CARACAS (Reuters) - He uses Hugo Chavez's bombastic language, brandishes the constitution and showers opponents with vitriol at every turn.

But Venezuelan Vice President Nicolas Maduro is struggling to replicate the extraordinary charisma of his boss, who is battling to recover from cancer surgery in Cuba.

Named as heir apparent by Chavez just before the president returned to Havana for his fourth surgery in December, the 50-year-old former bus driver has become the face of the socialist government in South America's top oil exporter.

Though diplomats say he is easy-going in conversations behind closed doors, in public he can be just as caustic and combative as Chavez, the former soldier who has led Venezuela for the past 14 years.

(Quoting a dirty US Ambassador, who had to leave after supporting the coup against Chavez)
~snip~
"There are simply too many moving pieces," wrote Charles Shapiro, a former U.S. ambassador to Venezuela who now heads the San Diego-based Institute of the Americas think tank. "My bet is that a deeply polarized and de-institutionalized Venezuela will be both turbulent and unstable for the foreseeable future."

More:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2013/1/1/worldupdates/2012-12-31T164547Z_1_BRE8BU09A_RTROPTT_0_UK-VENEZUELA-CHAVEZ-MADURO&sec=Worldupdates

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:47 PM

35. LOL

But I'd have been worried if the usual sources hadn't already begun to demonize him. Anything to undermine democracy and the progress of reform in Venezuela. Maybe they'll catch on soon how pathetic much of the rest of the world sees these attempts.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:55 PM

41. How about the usual sources downplaying and deflecting?

I'm sure he'll be up and running in no time!

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:58 PM

44. What are you going on about?

I replied to a post regarding 'Reuters getting right to work, trying to eviscerate Venezuela's Vice President'

You might want to ask your question of someone who doesn't already know Chavez is gravely ill.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #44)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 06:02 PM

47. Yeah, Maduro, the homophobic bigot?

Why not rally around him, right?

I was mainly referring to the whole, "news media bad" sentiment that is constantly thrown around about Chavez' health, and in this very thread the most accurate source that we have is being bashed for being "right wing."

Screw honesty and truth and integrity, right?

I guess so since that homophobic bigot Madruo is actually being defended here...

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:18 PM

65. They cancelled the New Year celebrations, and there were a lot of very popular bands scheduled to

play. A lot of people were looking forward to the VZ-style "New Year's Rocking Eve" performances.

That, right there, suggests that things aren't going well.

Of course, the roller coaster has been fired up yet again--now the son in law is saying that he is "stable" -- of course, if he were stable, why did they ruin everyone's New Year's? His remarks are in direct contravention to the "official statement" of the government.

And where's the damn picture? If he spent the day with his daughter, where's the one lousy posed picture to set everyone's mind at ease...unless he's in a medical coma on a respirator, and she's playing Angry Birds by his bedside, or something? Hard to make that kind of shot look cheery.

Makes no sense...

http://www.firstpost.com/world/venezuelas-chavez-in-stable-condition-says-son-in-law-575386.html



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Response to MADem (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:26 PM

66. I think he's dead. And I think they don't know what to do yet. Castro's not looking too

good, either, apparently.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #66)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:31 PM

68. How great do you expect to look, in your eighties? Far better than Fidel Castro?

Better than Jesse Helms did, in his eighties? Better than Strom Thurmond? Better than Mitch McConnell, at 70?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #68)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:23 PM

71. Now, now, Judi, let's not take disparagement of one's heroes personally.....nt

I

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #71)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:57 PM

73. You expect to irritate people by claiming leftist Presidents are their "heroes"? Really?

Why not "boyfriend" as a child with too much time on his hands would say?

Taking it "personally"? How would that work?

Here's a photo taken by Brazil's President Luis Inacio Lula da Silva when he visited Fidel Castro during his recuperation from his surgery.
I would say Fidel Castro looked like someone in his eighties.
















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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #73)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:13 PM

74. I think that pic is from 2008, is it not? What are you trying to prove? nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #74)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:26 PM

75. The picture is of someone in his 80's, sometime after serious surgery, when wingers were claiming

he was dead because there weren't photos in the newspapers.

He doesn't look good now? Who knows? He is not in public life. He's retired.

What were you trying to prove?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #75)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:47 PM

76. Why would you post a picture of him with a colostomy bag? I'm intrigued by your choice of photo.

And why would you care what I think he looks like? If you think he looks good, then wonderful.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #76)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:02 PM

77. Who knew he had a colostomy bag? Sorry for causing you such trauma.

If you've sufficiently recovered, perhaps you'll point out where I said he "looks good", I'd like to see it. I fear you are trying to test my memory with mischievous tricks.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #76)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 08:53 AM

86. that's not a colostomy bag, its his face! n/t

s

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #66)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:56 AM

79. If that were true, that would be bad news for Maduro, good news for Diodado Cabello. nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #66)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:06 AM

85. Castro's retired. He's technically not a sitting head of state, though I'm sure if he says jump,

the response is still "How high?"

But Hugo? He IS a sitting head of state--and the fact that he's disappeared is NOT normal.


If Obama disappeared for two days, never mind three weeks, the nation would be having shitfits.

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Response to MADem (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:30 PM

67. The planned celebration was the government-sponsored celebration. What kind of government

would go right ahead as if nothing was wrong when the head of state is in a dangerous state of health? Does that make sense?

That would not happen here. Most people wouldn't find anything too great to celebrate (other than the racists) if our own President was very ill.

As the reports HAVE stated, the private celebrations went on all over the country just AS USUAL. All that was altered was the state-sponsored event.

They had been looking forward? "They" didn't get immediate satisfaction, didn't get to see the free bands? Awwwww.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #67)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:07 AM

80. Now you're saying he's in a "dangerous state of health?" That's not what Maduro is saying.

Maduro is saying "Don't listen to the gossip, he'll be fine." He's going on about how they are having conversations, and the guy is squeezing his hand with "giant strength." I can understand how it might be difficult to keep up with an ever-shifting line of propaganda.

The state sponsored celebration was the one with all the bands, that everyone at the private celebrations would tune into on TV. And now you're saying "Awww" when the Venezuelans expressed disappointment? Why are you being so obtuse? The fact that the show was cancelled WAS a big deal. If the guy was awake, alert, and conversing with Maduro, as Maduro claimed, there should be no need for Hugo to deny his peeps a party. Hugo surely would WANT them to party down.

You keep trying to minimize the situation, and play the "Nothing to see here, move along" card. You can't even keep up with the changing story. Even the supporters in-country are smelling a rat:

Even some of his supporters said on Tuesday that they wished they knew more.

“We’re distressed by El Comandante’s health,” said Francisca Fuentes, who was walking through a downtown square with her grandchildren. “I think they aren’t telling us the whole truth. It’s time for them to speak clearly. It’s like when you have a sick relative and the doctor lies to you every once in a while.”...Jimenez and many other Venezuelans say it seems increasingly unlikely that Chavez can be sworn in as scheduled Jan. 10 for his new term.

Venezuelans rang in 2013 as usual with fireworks raining down all over the capital of Caracas. But some of Chavez’s supporters had long faces as they gathered in Bolivar Plaza on Monday night holding pictures of the president. A government-sponsored New Year’s Eve celebration there had been called off, and instead his supporters strummed guitars and read poetry in Chavez’s honor.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/venezuela-vp-says-he-has-visited-hugo-chavez-twice-in-cuba-and-will-return-to-venezuela/2013/01/01/3d57264a-5481-11e2-89de-76c1c54b1418_story_1.html

Three weeks. No straight story. And most importantly, not ONE damn picture of the guy--not one.

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Response to MADem (Reply #80)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:25 AM

82. Do you happen to have a link to Maduro's claim Hugo Chavez will "be fine"?

You can set the record straight easily by doing that.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #82)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:46 AM

83. The guy changes the story every time he opens his mouth.

Last week, Hugo was walking around and exercising:
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2012/12/25/hugo-chavez-speaks-is-walking-says-vp-nicolas-maduro/

Venezuelan Vice President Nicolás Maduro announced late Monday night he spoke with sickened President Hugo Chávez by telephone and that the leader is up and walking following cancer surgery in Cuba.
It was the first time a top Venezuelan government official confirmed speaking with Chávez personally since the Dec. 11 operation. Venezuelan officials have given few specifics on Chávez’s condition, and have yet to offer information on his long-term prognosis.
Maduro told state television station Venezolana de Television that the Christmas Eve conversation lasted about 20 minutes. He insisted the president was walking and doing recovery exercises. He added that Chávez had given him guidance on budgetary matters for 2013.
“He was in a good mood,” said Maduro. “He was walking, he was exercising. He wants to send a huge from the comandante to all the girls and boys in the country who will soon be receiving a visit from baby Jesus.”


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/02/venezuela-chavez-idUSL1E9C204220130102

"During these days I was able to see him twice and speak with him," Maduro said during an interview from Havana with regional television network Telesur. "He is completely conscious of the complexity of his post-operative state and he expressly asked us keep the people informed."

Maduro, who Chavez last month designated as his successor, said the president had grasped his hand "with immense strength" as they spoke, and asked him about the state of the economy and the swearing-in of newly elected governors.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/01/us-venezuela-chavez-idUSBRE90000T20130101

Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is in stable condition and spent Monday with his daughters, the cancer-stricken leader's son in law said in an appeal for supporters to ignore rumors about his condition.
Chavez has not been seen in public nor heard from in more than three weeks. The vice president said on Sunday that the 58-year-old was suffering a third set of complications after surgery in Cuba on December 11, his fourth operation in 18 months.

"Compatriots, DON'T believe in ill-intentioned rumors," Science Minister Jorge Arreaza, who is married to Chavez's daughter Rosa Virginia, wrote on Twitter from Havana where they have been at the former soldier's bedside.



But even his loyal supporters aren't buying this BS any more. It's impossible to "set the record straight" when all of the VZ government officials are lying their asses off.

Time will tell--and I think we'll know sooner rather than later.

If he is in a coma, induced or otherwise, he's in bad shape. If he's on a respirator, he might be technically dead already, but they're keeping his blood circulating so he won't look bad at a state funeral. It's impossible to know what his true state is--they're LYING, that much is quite plain-- and you're the only one who doesn't seem to take notice of the fact.


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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:45 PM

70. What a fucking festival of ghouls. n/t

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:37 PM

72. (Colombia's "Semana", google translation):Chavez greets Cuba while the ABC of Spain speaks of "induc

01 January 2013
Chavez greets Cuba while the ABC of Spain speaks of "induced coma"

CHAVEZ HEALTH media reports refer to the serious health condition of President Hugo Chavez, the same day that the president and his government celebrated the anniversary of Fidel Castro's revolution.

Ernesto Villegas, Minister of Communication and Information of Venezuela, who these days is one of the official spokespersons of the state of health of President Hugo Chavez, put on his twitter that may be the first statement signed by the Venezuelan president. Chavez referred to his state of health. Signed that statement to greet his friend Fidel Castro and all Cubans, and congratulate them on what he called 54 years of victory of the Cuban Revolution. Because it was the first of January 1959 when the revolutionaries led by the commander of the rebel army, Fidel Castro overthrew dictator of the moment, Fulgencio Batista. Chávez In the statement rate this January 1, 2012 an anniversary "so special" because "the circumstances of the struggle for life ma never have joined the Bolivarian and Cuban revolutions, the people of Venezuela and Cuba commune in prayer and hope to celebrate our fraternal solidarity, and reaffirm our commitment to continue traveling the path of Fidel dignity drew in his triumphant entry into Santiago de Cuba on 1 January 1959. " This first statement contrasts with news reports around the world that have dealt with the state of health of President Chavez. The Spanish newspaper ABC claims to have consulted sources said that the Venezuelan president would be in phase "induced coma" and even, says ABC, last Monday was scheduled "an upcoming trip." "Hugo Chavez has entered the last days an induced coma, with very weak vital signs, maintained through artificial assistance procured the Havana hospital where he was admitted, "said ABC information. "Sources said Monday that it had scheduled a shutdown next artificial assistance extending the life of the Venezuelan president. Such disconnection, with predictable result of death, could occur at any moment", reads the Spanish newspaper. Yet another thing they say in Venezuela. "President Hugo Chavez has spent the day peaceful and stable," the Minister of Science and Technology, Jorge Arreaza, who is in Havana to accompany the president and his family by the vice president, Nicolas Maduro and Attorney, Cilia Flores . "Fellow citizens, do not believe in malicious rumors. President Chavez has spent the day quiet and stable, accompanied by her daughters," wrote Arreaza on his Twitter @ jaarreaza. The official, who is also the husband of Rosa, daughter of President, made ​​the call hours after Masses were held for the health of the president and the Minister of Communication, Ernesto Villegas, ask respect for the president's health. The health of the president, who remains hospitalized in Havana after surgery that he underwent last December 11, "continues to be delicate," according to information provided by Maduro. Desde Cuba, the vice president offered a medical report and said the president had been "further complications" postoperative generated by a respiratory infection that came a few days after the surgery that was performed to alleviate cancer recurrence. Chavez confirmed on December 8 last recurrence of cancer which was diagnosed in mid-2011 and moved two days then to Havana, where the 11th was subjected to a "complex" surgery. Greeting to Cuba After learning these two reports came the publication of the first statement that is attributed directly to Hugo Chavez. The banner referred to the anniversary of the Cuban Revolution. This is the text: The President of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, Commander Hugo Chávez, together with his government and the Venezuelan people, congratulated the Cuban people and the brother President Raul Castro, in commemoration of the 54th anniversary of the triumph of the Cuban revolution victory foundational to the struggle of peoples for independence, freedom and equality. In this January 1 so special, when the circumstances of the struggle for life have united more than ever to the Revolutions Cuban and Bolivarian the peoples of Venezuela and Cuba commune in prayer and hope to celebrate our fraternal solidarity, and reaffirm our commitment to continue traveling the path of dignity that Fidel drew in his triumphant entry into Santiago de Cuba on 1 January 1959. In their first 54 years of struggles and victories, Cuba has become a world leader in the pursuit of justice with its own methods of defending the dignity as a principle of life, and the concrete practice of solidarity and love as a guide their relationship with the world. Know the Cuban Revolution can count on the Bolivarian Revolution to match all the love and solidarity that has been lavished on our people, in their struggle to be increasingly free and sovereign. now all say with Chavez Que Viva Fidel! Long live Raul! Long live Cuba and its Revolution! Until victory, forever!

Caracas, January 1, 2013

http://www.semana.com/mundo/articulo/chavez-saluda-cuba-mientras-abc-espana-habla-coma-inducido/326997

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:36 PM

87. I hope he has a speedy recovery. Cancer is no joke. nt

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