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Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:29 PM

BREAKING: AP Source: Retired Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf Has Died in Tampa, Fla.

Source: AP

AP SOURCE: RETIRED GEN. NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF DIES

By LOLITA C. BALDOR
Dec. 27 7:24 PM EST

WASHINGTON (AP) A U.S. official says retired Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf, who commanded the U.S.-led international coalition that drove Saddam Hussein's forces out of Kuwait in 1991, has died. He was 78.

The official tells The Associated Press that Schwarzkopf died Thursday in Tampa, Fla. The official wasn't authorized to release the information publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.

A much-decorated combat soldier in Vietnam, Schwarzkopf was known popularly as "Stormin' Norman" for a notoriously explosive temper.

He lived in retirement in Tampa, where he had served in his last military assignment as commander-in-chief of U.S. Central Command. That is the headquarters responsible for U.S. military and security concerns in nearly 20 countries from the eastern Mediterranean and Africa to Pakistan.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-source-retired-gen-norman-schwarzkopf-dies



I knew him. I think he owes my Mom $200 from the mid-1970s.

67 replies, 11589 views

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Reply BREAKING: AP Source: Retired Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf Has Died in Tampa, Fla. (Original post)
Hissyspit Dec 2012 OP
calimary Dec 2012 #1
Hissyspit Dec 2012 #5
UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #17
calimary Dec 2012 #18
Hissyspit Dec 2012 #24
ybbor Dec 2012 #16
calimary Dec 2012 #20
ybbor Dec 2012 #23
amandabeech Dec 2012 #63
Hissyspit Dec 2012 #47
Skittles Dec 2012 #51
TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #2
bluestateguy Dec 2012 #3
Purveyor Dec 2012 #8
alp227 Dec 2012 #4
DollarBillHines Dec 2012 #6
Great Caesars Ghost Dec 2012 #7
whistler162 Dec 2012 #9
atreides1 Dec 2012 #10
Alamuti Lotus Dec 2012 #13
840high Dec 2012 #11
calimary Dec 2012 #21
Cooley Hurd Dec 2012 #19
Purveyor Dec 2012 #29
Piazza Riforma Dec 2012 #30
Cooley Hurd Dec 2012 #32
JackRiddler Dec 2012 #33
Cooley Hurd Dec 2012 #35
Alamuti Lotus Dec 2012 #45
Cooley Hurd Dec 2012 #50
pasto76 Dec 2012 #22
Arctic Dave Dec 2012 #31
southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #12
bluedigger Dec 2012 #14
southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #54
24601 Dec 2012 #64
southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #65
dflprincess Dec 2012 #37
southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #53
JackRiddler Dec 2012 #15
Piazza Riforma Dec 2012 #27
Rozlee Dec 2012 #46
Sunlei Dec 2012 #48
4Q2u2 Dec 2012 #57
UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #25
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #26
brooklynite Dec 2012 #34
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #39
Ter Dec 2012 #42
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #43
Piazza Riforma Dec 2012 #28
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #36
CreekDog Dec 2012 #52
olddad56 Dec 2012 #38
Aristus Dec 2012 #40
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #41
DainBramaged Dec 2012 #44
jmowreader Dec 2012 #49
primavera Dec 2012 #55
Hissyspit Dec 2012 #61
MADem Dec 2012 #62
In_The_Wind Dec 2012 #56
MADem Dec 2012 #58
daleo Dec 2012 #59
MADem Dec 2012 #60
daleo Dec 2012 #66
MADem Dec 2012 #67

Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:31 PM

1. Wow - Stormin' Norman.

You knew him? This time YOU get to tell the cool stories, Hissyspit!

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Response to calimary (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:40 PM

5. I was just thinking of your post! He threatened to throw a jelly jar at my Dad.

That kind of think may have had something to do with his nickname. He was my Dad's CO in Alaska. I was about 12-13. I think my sister baby-sat for him.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:36 PM

17. That's interseting.

 

You should write an OP about that.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:41 PM

18. That's quite a memory, Hissyspit! A jelly jar?

Was he trying to hit her or give her something to hit your dad with? It must have been pretty wild for you to watch Operation Desert Storm and see him on TV, having known him close-up as a kid.

I still remember that briefing when the war had just ended, and some of my friends were over there covering it, having been stationed in Riyadh. The guy who ran the CalWest Regionals out of the L.A. bureau (a regional audio feed comprised of affiliate and stringer pieces) got sent to Riyadh for six weeks, and I had to cut my Hollywood reporter duties in half, and sub for him, putting that feed together every day. EVERYBODY had to double up on their work. And those of us also served who only stayed at home holding down the fort in the various domestic bureaus. LOL! I remember when this guy Steve Futterman whom we all knew and worked with here in L.A. was sent over for NBC Radio, I think it was. And it was HE who asked that great question - "how would you sum up Saddam Hussein as a warrior?" And Schwarzkopf gave this very famous and memorable answer about how Saddam was not this or that and "not schooled in the operational art," but otherwise he was an okay warrior. And all the networks and locals carried that soundbite and ran it again and again and again! I was so proud of my L.A. brothers over there!!!

That made me think of the weekly reimbursement forms I had to turn in to get paid back for parking and mileage and other kinda mundane expenses. Sometimes it added up fairly nicely. I paid my credit card with those every month. And then I couldn't - while all that was going on. I remember how I had to call the store and apologize for being late with my payment that month. I remember telling the woman on the other end of the phone that I had an excuse, probably one she'd never heard before. I wasn't going to be able to pay on time because the guy who signed off on my expense forms had been sent to Riyadh (and nobody was assigned to step in to cover that part of his job)! What a time that was. Btw - the woman on the other end of the phone thought that was hilarious, and gave me a pass that month. That was actually kind of a fun conversation.

You just made me think back on that, Hissyspit! Crazy days!

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Response to calimary (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:58 PM

24. Oops, I remembered that wrong. He told my Mom he was going to throw the jelly jar at my Dad because

The general was upset at him over lodging reservations. He later told my Mom that he was taking blood pressure mess and that was his way to apologize.

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Response to calimary (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:35 PM

16. I met him once

I installed the security system in his home in Telluride. When I was giving him his orientation on the system, he asked me how long it would take for a sheriff to respond to a break-in, I responded "for you general probably 10-15 mins." He replied " Well by that time I'll have taken care of it myself".

He seemed a pretty decent guy, but what do I know?

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Response to ybbor (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:43 PM

20. Welcome to DU, ybbor!

Glad you're here. I will always remember that press briefing he gave after the war had just ended. He kept talking about the plan. The plan. The plan. And he stated that "if you fail to plan, you can plan to fail."

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Response to calimary (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:51 PM

23. thanks

I have been a daily reader, lurker since 2004. I just started offering my opinion recently.

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Response to ybbor (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:40 AM

63. This post was a duzey!

Welcome to posting on DU, and please do continue to share!

Amanda

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Response to ybbor (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:39 AM

47. My mother: "He really did care about the troops"

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #47)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:39 AM

51. I heard that too

from a few troops

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:32 PM

2. HuffPo has it on their AP crawler.

RIP.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:32 PM

3. I do hope he ended up reversing his opposition to gays in the military before he passed

I will say that he was a good general militarily.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:51 PM

8. Yeah. That was my 'first thought' too... eom

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:47 PM

6. "Anyone here who thinks this is about oil is in the wrong business."

Riiiiight, Norm.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)


Response to Great Caesars Ghost (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:54 PM

9. Let us now when you exit so can check name off the list!

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Response to Great Caesars Ghost (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:03 PM

10. Please Explain

What exactly made him an "evil entity"?

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:23 PM

13. the glowing pride he swelled (further) with whenever speaking of the Highways of Death comes to mind

 

but I will defer to the OP on their own reasoning.

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Response to Great Caesars Ghost (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:06 PM

11. Wonder what people

will say when you go.

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Response to 840high (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:45 PM

21. Welcome to DU, 840high!

Glad you're here. Sometimes things get a little - well - fill in the blank here.

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Response to Great Caesars Ghost (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:41 PM

19. Sometimes, DU can be a sad and dark place...

...because of posts like this.

Sigh... please just go away.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:31 PM

29. Getting worse imo. I'll leave soon as I don't care to be party with such vileness. Wasn't this

way back in DU2 times.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:38 PM

30. Why should he go? Because he doens't join you in the hero worship?

 

Didn't know that DUers had to suck up to the memory of a man because he had shiny stars on his shoulders.

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Response to Piazza Riforma (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:48 PM

32. Simple respect. Learning how to show respect is a skill worth learning...

Proceed, PR.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #32)


Response to JackRiddler (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:58 PM

35. Not worthy of respect...

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:53 PM

45. Evidently others feel similarly about our recently deceased subject

 

who is, incidentally, one with a much higher body count and with more of a record of proudly shooting people en masse when they're running away than the other. Although to hear him describe it, it was only "enemy equipment" that his jets and artillery were firing on.

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Response to Alamuti Lotus (Reply #45)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:34 AM

50. Well, the same could be said for Ike...

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Response to Great Caesars Ghost (Reply #7)


Response to pasto76 (Reply #22)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:44 PM

31. The best he did was to serve the oligarchs of the US.

 

Was he good militarily? Sure. But let's face it, the military has been the wing for the repug/neo-fascist for four decades or more.

That's what "todays military" is about.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:19 PM

12. None of these generals of today compare to the generals of years ago. No Ike who really

 

put the country first and warned of the "military complex". The nightmare has come true in many ways. Today you have generals retiring and mixing in politics and sitting on TV without telling people that they have connection with companies that are in the arms business. President Ike was one of the best. I haven't heard much about Norman Schwarzkopf after he retired. If he truly retired then I can respect him for not getting involved with politics. While he was on active duty he did a good job.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:27 PM

14. To be a Great General, you have to have an opponent of equal stature.

General Schwarzkopf was a good general, but he never faced much of a foe, as events proved out. As far as I know, he published his memoirs and left the stage. The next generation of Generals seems to have greater ambitions, and lesser stature.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:15 AM

54. Yes you about got it right. These generals today are way to political. As we can see with the

 

lastest general proves to be in bed with Fox News. I wonder how much information was given to Fox behind the commander-in-chief's back. For me this is treason.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:28 PM

64. Then your definition of treason has nothing to do with the definition contained in the

Constitution.

Fortunately, soldiers (as well as sailors, airmen, marines, civil servants, members of congress, etc) swear their oaths to the Constitution, not to the President. In Nazi Germany such an act would have been treason.

Political Generals - like ones who run for political office, e.g. Wes Clark.

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Response to 24601 (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:12 PM

65. Your right but their boss is the commander-in-chief and I believe that is the president.

 

Gen Patraus(sorry I know I misspelled his name) was working behind the commander-in-chief's back by giving information to Fox News who have no love for the president. By the way I think that is treason for sure. I wonder how much information these generals give. I would feel the same if the information given to the president was a republican. There are things you just don't do.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:09 PM

37. Not all WWII Generals

My dad was in NYC on business when MacArthur died. He called my mom from a bar and told her he and some of the other WWII (Pacific) vets he was there with (as well as some he had just met in the bar) were all going to head over to 5th Avenue the next day during MacArthur's funeral procession so they could dance on his casket.

As a rule, my dad was a fairly mild mannered guy - but he really hated MacArthur.

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:11 AM

53. I will agree with you on MacArthur for sure. Patton was another one. My father-in-law and

 

father both said he was a mean SOB and a pompous ass.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:25 PM

27. Sadly people tend to forget things like this

 

in their hero worship.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:20 AM

46. A couple of our 92Ms (morgue attendant specialists) were pulled for duty there

by the Red Cross/Red Crescent. They said they were told that they couldn't talk about what they saw on Highway 80 but they were a lot more subdued in the weeks afterward before we redeployed.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:57 AM

48. That horrid action ramped up USA hate bigtime.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:07 PM

57. The Real Story

The first reason why we bombed the highway coming north out of Kuwait is because there was a great deal of military equipment on that highway, and I had given orders to all my commanders that I wanted every piece of Iraqi equipment that we possibly could destroy. Secondly, this was not a bunch of innocent people just trying to make their way back across the border to Iraq. This was a bunch of rapists, murderers and thugs who had raped and pillaged downtown Kuwait City and now were trying to get out of the country before they were caught.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_Death.


Just because something looks bad is not always the full truth, and a picture is not always worth a 1000 words.
Be honest.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:08 PM

26. I mourn for all the Iraqi children who died at his hands.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:58 PM

34. But the Kuwaiti children who died at Hussein's hands, that was okay?

Actually, how many Iraqi children DID die, considering that the Iraqi Army pretty much folded as soon as the US forces crossed the border?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:17 PM

39. Where the hell did I defend Saddam Hussein?

Holy crap I can't believe I am even reading this shit on DU, I thought people here did not stoop to comparing opposition to the war in Iraq to support for Saddam Hussein.

Thousands of civilians died in the Gulf War and that is a fact, there is dispute as to how many thousands were civilians but it is an undeniable fact that there were thousands of them. And yes I realize Saddam Hussein's hands were far from clean, they were not clean when the US was funding him either but that didn't stop Schwartzkopf from working side by side with the people who had previously allied themselves with Saddam.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:10 PM

42. It wasn't his call to invade and go to war

 

The President made the decision.

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Response to Ter (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:22 PM

43. He did not end up in his position by accident, he is accountable for his actions

I don't buy the "just following orders" defense.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:30 PM

28. Maybe now he can seek the forgiveness of all the

 

Iraqis killed as a result of the orders he issued.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:03 PM

36. Condolences to his family, but beyond that, nothing.

"(President Bush) is the candidate who has demonstrated the conviction needed to defeat terrorism. In contrast to the President's steadfast determination to defeat our enemies, Senator Kerry has a record of weakness that gives me no confidence in his ability to fight and win the War on Terror."

Nice quote General.

RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 06:49 AM

52. thanks for the reality check

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:16 PM

38. oh well, another departed war criminal.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:31 PM

40. I served in the Gulf War, but I really have no emotional connection with him.

When he published his memoirs, my dad, a Vietnam veteran, send me a copy. I was out in the field when the package arrived with the mail, as luck would have it. It gave me something to read during down time. It sits on my bookself to this day, but I haven't read it in 20 years...

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:34 PM

41. RIP, Soldier.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:34 PM

44. Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf, NJ native, rest in peace soldier

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:25 AM

49. Norm Schwarzkopf may have saved the Army

There was a Field Station Berlin commander named Willard Thomas Carter. One of our nicknames for him was Star Search because he wanted to be a general so bad he could taste it. He was also completely incompetent among other things; as far as we could tell, his primary military skill was ass kissing. If Willy T would have made general the Army would never have recovered.

We didn't like his obnoxious wife either. Not sure he liked her either.

During Desert Shield, the people who were grooming Willard for his star sent him to Saudi to be Central Command J-2 (Schwarzkopf's intel chief) Admiral McConnell's deputy. Willie sat up one night and figured out Schwarzkopf's email password and started forwarding all the general's eyes-only messages to Carter's friends at the Pentagon. Some of them were very bad problems Schwarzkopf was working hard to correct. Carter's friends started calling Saudi and riding Schwarzkopf's ass over this. Schwarzkopf figured out who was responsible and got rid of him so thoroughly he'll never have a chance to harm the Army again. General Schwarzkopf would have court-martialed the bastard if more pressing business hadn't had priority.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:51 AM

55. Article doesn't say what he died of

Kind of odd, don't you think, that an article about his death doesn't say what he died of? Did he have cancer, a stroke, a heart attack, run over by a bus, what? Some journalist.

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Response to primavera (Reply #55)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 07:59 PM

61. I heard complications from pneumonia.

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Response to primavera (Reply #55)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:14 PM

62. Pneumonia....and he had Alzheimer's, too, apparently.

You don't die from the latter, strictly... but it can impact the ability of a patient to make his needs known or articulate distress.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:28 AM

56. Rest in peace, General Schwarzkopf.

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Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 03:05 PM

58. Just saw this on TV---one of his personal staffers came to work for me several years ago.

He wasn't an easy boss, plainly. I was no Santy Claus, but I guess in comparison I was Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the genie from the Aladdin tales, combined!

The guy made his staff walk on eggshells--I think that's a kinda shitty leadership technique, myself. You never get the truth from 'em if you play it that way; fear gets in the way of honest communications.

On the plus side, he was able to transition to civilian life, it would seem, and stay busy with good works. Some folks just can't put away the uniform, they spend all their time in their easy chair looking at their "I Love Me" wall, and focus on their past glory days while complaining that "these young whippersnappers" can't do it as well, didn't have it as hard, etc.

He died young, though--78 is the new 65, these days. Of course, career military personnel don't seem to last as long for some reason...

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Response to MADem (Reply #58)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 03:46 PM

59. 78 isn't far off the average lifespan for an American male

Though an army general is not exactly an average person.

On one hand, the high educational level and social status of the position would generally correlate with a longer life span. On the other hand, the stresses associated with the position (including exposure to toxic substances) are often associated with shorter lifespan.

One wonders if he had any health problems associated with the job, including exposure to toxins widely accepted as happening to western coalition forces during the Gulf War.

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Response to daleo (Reply #59)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 04:10 PM

60. He had health insurance, too.

I think a lot of us were exposed to toxins during GW. There was a lot of bullshitting happening with the paperwork/data.

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Response to MADem (Reply #60)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:56 PM

66. I suspect we'll never know the whole truth about GW syndrome

Anyway, best of luck and good health to you.

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Response to daleo (Reply #66)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 08:19 PM

67. They'll probably wait until we're all dead! It'll be something for our descendants to mull over...

Hopefully it isn't a gift that keeps on giving down the years...

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