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Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:24 PM

FDA Quietly Pushes Through Genetically Modified Salmon over Christmas Break

Source: Nation of Change

FDA Quietly Pushes Through Genetically Modified Salmon over Christmas Break
Published: Thursday 27 December 2012
“These fish of course threaten the very genetic integrity of the food chain when considering the fact that they will ultimately be unleashed into waters with other salmon and likely even the ocean at large.”

While you were likely resting or enjoying time with friends and family over the Christmas break, the United States Food and Drug Administration was hard at work ramming through genetically modified salmon towards the final acceptance process. Despite the frankenfish actually being blocked by Congress last year over serious health and environmental concerns, the FDA is making a massive push to release the genetically modified salmon into the world as the FDA-backed biotech giant and creator of the fish AquaAdvantage screams for profits.

These fish of course threaten the very genetic integrity of the food chain when considering the fact that they will ultimately be unleashed into waters with other salmon and likely even the ocean at large. The AquaAdvantage genetically modified salmon have been engineered through genetic manipulation to grow double the size and weight of the average salmon. Hitting 24 inches instead of 13 and weighing in at 6.6 pounds instead of 2.8, the GM fish contains both a gene from another salmon known as the Pacific Chinook as well as an eel-like fish.

Read more: http://www.nationofchange.org/fda-quietly-pushes-through-genetically-modified-salmon-over-christmas-break-1356625080



Just an FYI. Obama needs to fire Mr. (Monstanto executive) Taylor from the FDA and clean
up this mess imho. He HAS to know this shit is going on

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Reply FDA Quietly Pushes Through Genetically Modified Salmon over Christmas Break (Original post)
99th_Monkey Dec 2012 OP
FiveGoodMen Dec 2012 #1
Coyotl Dec 2012 #4
FiveGoodMen Dec 2012 #5
byeya Dec 2012 #10
jerseyjack Dec 2012 #35
byeya Dec 2012 #97
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #7
Coyotl Dec 2012 #11
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #18
robinlynne Dec 2012 #22
bvar22 Dec 2012 #32
TheMadMonk Dec 2012 #49
cui bono Dec 2012 #101
lunasun Dec 2012 #19
glinda Dec 2012 #70
Sunlei Dec 2012 #85
glinda Dec 2012 #87
Sunlei Dec 2012 #90
glinda Dec 2012 #110
pscot Dec 2012 #2
Voice for Peace Dec 2012 #6
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #8
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #12
KT2000 Dec 2012 #15
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #25
Alamuti Lotus Dec 2012 #106
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #108
pscot Dec 2012 #16
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #21
KT2000 Dec 2012 #31
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #38
KT2000 Dec 2012 #56
NickB79 Dec 2012 #64
KT2000 Dec 2012 #72
NickB79 Dec 2012 #78
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #89
NickB79 Dec 2012 #92
byeya Dec 2012 #98
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #65
Texano78704 Dec 2012 #74
KT2000 Dec 2012 #77
LanternWaste Dec 2012 #95
KT2000 Dec 2012 #75
byeya Dec 2012 #99
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #107
LTX Dec 2012 #94
KT2000 Dec 2012 #100
NickB79 Dec 2012 #45
KT2000 Dec 2012 #57
AlecBGreen Dec 2012 #102
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #104
Berlum Dec 2012 #82
bloomington-lib Dec 2012 #3
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #27
bloomington-lib Dec 2012 #50
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #63
TheMadMonk Dec 2012 #55
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #62
TheMadMonk Dec 2012 #71
lunasun Dec 2012 #28
hopemountain Dec 2012 #9
SoapBox Dec 2012 #13
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #67
randr Dec 2012 #14
KT2000 Dec 2012 #17
cal04 Dec 2012 #23
classykaren Dec 2012 #24
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #80
montanacowboy Dec 2012 #20
azurnoir Dec 2012 #26
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #29
Chemisse Dec 2012 #36
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #41
Chemisse Dec 2012 #43
NickB79 Dec 2012 #48
azurnoir Dec 2012 #53
Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #61
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #68
azurnoir Dec 2012 #52
classykaren Dec 2012 #30
sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #33
Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #40
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #46
Berlum Dec 2012 #34
Chemisse Dec 2012 #37
Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #39
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #42
Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #47
NickB79 Dec 2012 #51
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #69
AlecBGreen Dec 2012 #103
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #105
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #66
blaze Dec 2012 #58
lunasun Dec 2012 #44
Hotler Dec 2012 #59
Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #60
littlemissmartypants Dec 2012 #54
DeSwiss Dec 2012 #73
Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #79
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #76
99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #111
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #81
MrYikes Dec 2012 #83
Sunlei Dec 2012 #84
B-ONE Lancer Dec 2012 #86
backtoblue Dec 2012 #88
LisaL Dec 2012 #91
dmosh42 Dec 2012 #93
Evasporque Dec 2012 #96
undeterred Dec 2012 #109

Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:35 PM

1. "He HAS to know this shit is going on"

Yes.

And what can we conclude from that?

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:40 PM

4. Not really. He has big fish to fry.

Never assume the head of the largest organization in the known universe knows everything going on!

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:42 PM

5. On this one issue, sure.

But on the many ways that the government is working on behalf of the 1% and against the health, safety, and well-being of the rest of us?

He knows.

He's not on our side.

Else he wouldn't be working so hard to take away our safety net.

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:14 PM

10. He knows and perhaps is even actively pushing it. Big $$$ you know. Integrity of the food chainr

 

be damned.

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Response to byeya (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:39 PM

35. Watch your mouth Sonny,

 

I you had said those things about St. Obama during election time, you would have been ridiculed or banned or something.

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Response to jerseyjack (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:18 PM

97. Yes. There would have been sharp intakes of breath; and the arched eyebrows of censure. I might even

 

have been made to wear itchy clothing.
Thanks for the warning!

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:07 PM

7. So you are saying "The buck stops over there"?

He knew who he appointed and I bet he fully knows what he is doing. Pres Obama has a staff that tells him what's going on. They even tell him that the progressives arent happy with our Monsanto-FDA.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:24 PM

11. Precisely, not every decision crosses Obama's desk. D'oh!

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:47 PM

18. He is responsible. He has staff to keep him informed. He appointed Mr. Monsanto for a reason and

apparently not to watch out for our health.

Are you in favor of allowing the development of genetically modified salmon? I am not.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:54 PM

22. he did choose the monsanto lawyer. he knows who he put in charge.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:18 PM

32. Micheal Taylor is not the first Monsanto Lobbyist he had appointed to run a regulatory agency.

Google: "Tom Vilsack & Monsanto"
President Obama appointed Vilsack to head up the Dept of Agriculture.

If those were the only two, I could believe that it was just a run of mistakes,
but , sadly, the above ARE the pattern for this administration,
not the exceptions.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:03 PM

49. On specific issues perhaps. On the general tone...

 

...of what the government is doing (has done time and time and time again) for big business at the expense of the general populace, he knows what's going on.

HE IS IN IT UP TO HIS FUCKING NECK. Or he's even more clueless than The Chimp, just more erudite.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 05:12 PM

101. He appointed a Monsanto CEO to head the FDA.

Not only does he have to know this sort of thing is happening, he must want it to happen.

Why else would he appoint someone with that history?

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:49 PM

19. knowing does not mean he or his family will eat it

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:46 PM

70. I have wondered if he is kept isolated from a lot of things.

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Response to glinda (Reply #70)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:56 AM

85. President Obama reformed FDA, it had not been changed for 70 years.

here's the link http://www.fda.gov/

Here is the FDA search on GM salmon and the public release of info.

http://google2.fda.gov/search?q=salmon&client=FDAgov&site=FDAgov&lr=&proxystylesheet=FDAgov&output=xml_no_dtd&getfields=*


You are probably right about Obama not knowing everything going on in all our Federal Gov and I hope the Leadership there is not taking advantage of thin oversight.

However, Obamas New changes requires computering everything. With the Bush admin. they still used paper maps and written files.



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Response to Sunlei (Reply #85)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:24 AM

87. The second Bush made substantial cuts in the number of inspectors and other areas.

The FDA has epic fail and selling out in my opinion. Just look at how they do nothing about the dog jerky treats that remain in stores that are killing pets. I think the FDA needs to be overhauled and replaced with experts that are not on the dole.

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Response to glinda (Reply #87)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:01 AM

90. yes the rule that allow pet poison to remain on store shelves, is because of lobbyist control

The Chinese would not even allow an inspection in the factory that produces pet treats. Someone should do a dna test on the 'meat' in those treats. One can only imagine what that stuff is that needs to be soaked in kidney damaging chemicals to kill the bacteria & stench.

I don't feed anything made in china to my animals. I've even lost trust in usa produced pet foods and watch the recalls carefully.

I lost one of my rottweilers years ago to acute renal failure. She was the only dog in my house that ate 2 cans of Iams dog food a day added to her dry food. She was very healthy, young high energy and went downhill in a week. 2 years later they had that big Iams recall and pet poison issue make the news.

These days pet food ingredient quality has taken a nose-dive. Not many slaughter scraps of quality left to feed to pets, they put those scraps into pink slime and hot dogs The words 'meat and bonemeal' make me shiver.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #90)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:05 PM

110. Combination lobbyists and lack of inspections.

I had ten pets that ate poisoned pet foods. Four suffered damage. Cost was about 10 thou over five years dealing with kidney and cancers. So tell me about it.
I subscribe to Truth About Petfood and the downloaded list about ingredients. ANY added vitamins in pet foods are all from China also.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:35 PM

2. this is remarkably dumb

Wild salmon populations are already under enormous stress as a result of loss of spawning habitat and deteriorating ocean conditions. Corrupting the gene pool could have disastrous consequences. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

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Response to pscot (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:58 PM

6. they think they are god, and have an irresistible urge to keep doing the things that make money

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Response to pscot (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:08 PM

8. They are willing to kill the goose and the rest of us, for a buck. nm

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Response to pscot (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:26 PM

12. This is remarkably smart...

...wild salmon populations are under enormous stress, we don't need to be doing more to deplete the wild population. These farm raised salmon will enhance our food supply, at less expense, and help relieve the pressure on the wild stock.

Salmon is one of my favorites - Can't wait to enjoy the new breed.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:40 PM

15. farm raised salmon are often sick

they share their illnesses, espeically lice, with the wild salmon thereby further reducing the wild population. The salmon farms near my house raise fish that has to have tumors removed before they are sold. They taste like cheap beef - not salmon.

I hope your post was a joke.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:03 PM

25. Nope. No joke...

All agriculture detrimentally affects the surrounding environment - None the less, we have to eat. As of 2007, salmon aquaculture produced approximately 69% of world salmon output, and over 80% of Atlantic salmon. Most of the salmon the world eats comes from aquaculture and actually tastes just fine. I know, its my favorite fish.

By cultivating salmon faster and more efficiently either the cost will go down and volume will increase resulting in less stress on other species and natural fisheries, or the volume will stay the same with the number of farming operations decreasing. Either way, its a net improvement.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 07:17 PM

106. all this sounds like a stilted selection of talking points from a carefully prepared ad campaign

 

I hope somebody is paying you well..

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Response to Alamuti Lotus (Reply #106)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 07:38 PM

108. I take exception...

.. a "stilted selection" !?!!? "talking points" !?!?? My comments are PRIMO... well worth the six figure income I pull down hanging around on DU!

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:41 PM

16. Penned salmon escape all the time

They pollute the surrounding waters and spread disease and parasites to the wild fish populations. You are aware of the high concentrations of dioxins found in farmed salmon and steelhead? Bon apetite.

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Response to pscot (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:52 PM

21. AquAdvantage will be cultivating...

... only sterile females at inland farms. "Escapees" can't reproduce, either natively or by interbreeding with wild stocks, because they are all triploid, with three sets of chromosomes. They plan to provide farmers with eggs rather than fish.

All agriculture detrimentally affects the surrounding environment and all food, even naturally occurring food, contains toxins. What are you going to do, stop eating?

Sorry, I consider this progress and I happy that our investment in genetic research is paying off so well.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:17 PM

31. tell me -

have they figured out a way to predict the folding of proteins in genetically modified plants and animals? No, they have not. That may be a big surprsie yet to come.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:45 PM

38. All plants and animals are genetically modified...

... and all domesticated agricultural plants and animals have been DELIBERATELY genetically modified through selective breading. This has been going on for millenia without any understanding of protein folding whatsoever at all. Nothing bad has happened. On the contrary, without the use of deliberate genetic modification, humanity would probably have died out long ago.

As an example, many farmed varieties of salmon already have twice the growth rate of wild salmon due to selective breading... that is, deliberate genetic modification.

The AquAdvantage salmon uses a growth hormone regulating gene from a Pacific Chinook salmon and a promoter gene from an ocean pout. In other words, these are genetic elements found in nature and introduced into a related fish - like cross breading.

I don't think we have anything to worry about.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #38)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:18 PM

56. selective breeding is not GE

GE can create new proteins that have never existed before. (ever heard of prion diseases?) You should take a look at some of the animals they have created that were huge, misshapen, and in extreme pain. Do you really trust Monsanto to thoroughly test and tell you the truth when they never have? Have you read any of the few health studies in animals that ate GM foods? You would find there has been damage to vital organs.

You should really read up on this (Institute for Responsible Technology)
How is genetic engineering done?

Because living organisms have natural barriers to protect themselves against the introduction of DNA from a different species, genetic engineers must force the DNA from one organism into another. Their methods include:

•Using viruses or bacteria to "infect" animal or plant cells with the new DNA.
•Coating DNA onto tiny metal pellets, and firing it with a special gun into the cells.
•Injecting the new DNA into fertilized eggs with a very fine needle.
•Using electric shocks to create holes in the membrane covering sperm, and then forcing the new DNA into the sperm through these holes.

But haven't growers been grafting trees, breeding animals, and hybridizing seeds for years?

Genetic engineering is completely different from traditional breeding and carries unique risks.

In traditional breeding it is possible to mate a pig with another pig to get a new variety, but is not possible to mate a pig with a potato or a mouse. Even when species that may seem to be closely related do succeed in breeding, the offspring are usually infertile—a horse, for example, can mate with a donkey, but the offspring (a mule) is sterile.

With genetic engineering, scientists can breach species barriers set up by nature. For example, they have spliced fish genes into tomatoes. The results are plants (or animals) with traits that would be virtually impossible to obtain with natural processes, such as crossbreeding or grafting.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #56)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:08 PM

64. I'd suggest you take a basic college biology class

And ask the professor to explain the term "horizontal/lateral gene transfer".

For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer#Eukaryotes

"Sequence comparisons suggest recent horizontal transfer of many genes among diverse species including across the boundaries of phylogenetic "domains". Thus determining the phylogenetic history of a species can not be done conclusively by determining evolutionary trees for single genes".

Analysis of DNA sequences suggests that horizontal gene transfer has also occurred within eukaryotes from the chloroplast and mitochondrial genomes to the nuclear genome. As stated in the endosymbiotic theory, chloroplasts and mitochondria probably originated as bacterial endosymbionts of a progenitor to the eukaryotic cell.
Horizontal transfer of genes from bacteria to some fungi, especially the yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae, has been well documented.
There is also recent evidence that the adzuki bean beetle has somehow acquired genetic material from its (non-beneficial) endosymbiont Wolbachia. New examples have recently been reported demonstrating that Wolbachia bacteria represent an important potential source of genetic material in arthropods and filarial nematodes.
There is also evidence for horizontal transfer of mitochondrial genes to parasites of the Rafflesiaceae plant family from their hosts (also plants), from chloroplasts of a not-yet-identified plant to the mitochondria of the bean Phaseolus, and from a heterokont alga to its predator, the sea slug Elysia chlorotica.
Striga hermonthica, a eudicot, has undergone a horizontal gene transfer from Sorghum (Sorghum bicolor) to its nuclear genome. The gene is of unknown functionality.
Researchers at the University of Arizona have found that the genome of pea aphids (Acyrthosiphon pisum) contains multiple genes that were horizontally transferred from fungi. Plants, fungi, and microorganisms can synthesize carotenoids, but torulene made by pea aphids is the only carotenoid known to be synthesized by an organism in the animal kingdom.
It was recently suggested that the malaria causing pathogen Plasmodium vivax has horizontally acquired from humans genetic material that might help facilitate its long stay in the body.
A 2012 paper proposes a novel bacteriophage-mediated mechanism of horizontal gene transfer between prokaryotes and eukaryotes. The authors show the widespread presence of nuclear localization signals in bacteriophage terminal proteins (TP), which prime DNA replication and become covalently linked to the viral genome. Taking into account the known role of virus and bacteriophages in HGT in bacteria, the authors propose that TP-containing genomes could be a vehicle of inter-kingdom genetic information transference all throughout evolution.


and

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100430155856.htm

"Since these bugs frequently feed on humans, it is conceivable that bugs and humans may have exchanged DNA through the mechanism we uncovered. Detecting recent transfers to humans would require examining people that have been exposed to the bugs for thousands of years, such as native South American populations," Feschotte said.


What were you saying about unnaturally breaching species boundaries?

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #64)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:54 AM

72. Injecting the DNA

using specialized guns etc is unnatural.

DNA researchers are now saying that the more they learn about DNA, the more they realize they do not know. As your quote indicates, the genetic changes that have occured naturally do not always bode well for humans. This is nothing more than experimentation.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #72)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:04 AM

78. The most common DNA transmission route is via plasmids

Snippets of DNA packaged with enzymes that will cut open the host DNA strand to insert the new DNA sequence.

This method was developed by (wait for it)......scientists observing naturally occurring plasmids doing the exact same thing in bacteria. This is how bacteria develop antibiotic resistance so rapidly; they can share genes amongst different species.

Genetic shotguns (the method you referenced) aren't commonly used because of their inability to target specific gene sequences.

Are you now down to quibbling about the methods by which we replicate naturally occurring phenomena? I'd point out that artificially inseminating cattle is also unnatural, as is collecting and storing pollen from plants halfway around the planet in order to produce new hybrid crops that never would have existed otherwise.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #78)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:49 AM

89. +100 Thanks for your posts. Informative and factual. (nt)

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #89)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:34 AM

92. Gotta get some use out of this biochem degree :-) NT

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #64)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:25 PM

98. Intentionally adding genetic material from another organism is not selective breeding as it's been

 

known through the centuries.

Until and unless GE in cases where the result is to be loosed into the environment is proved safe and compatible with
the ecosystem is needs to be banned.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #56)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:10 PM

65. You are right, selective breeding is not gentic engineering...

...but it is close enough that it provides a useful analogy and indication of the possible range of effects. Genetic engineering is far more specific and limited than natural mutations and variations, however, so the results are more controllable and less likely to be detrimental.

In this case the two genes are from two other other fish and have a very specific result - an increase in the duration of growth hormone production. This is not a "new protean" that has never existed before. It is a naturally occurring process that enhances a naturally occurring substance that is already part of the fish's bio-chemical make up.

As far as "breaching species barriers" that have been "set up by nature" I would invite you to read Darwin's Origin of Species to get a good understanding of what little meaning the conception of a species actually has and how few are the barriers to variation and recombination there are in nature.

Basically, humans have been breaching the "barriers set up by nature" for the whole of our existence, and this ability has been about the only thing that has allowed our survival. It's in our nature.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #65)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:09 AM

74. Thanks

for your responses on this topic. It is amazing how some suddenly throw science out the window on this issue.

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Response to Texano78704 (Reply #74)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:12 AM

77. better make sure

people are not mistaking corporate PR for science.
The science does not support the commercial, untested, unregulated use of this technology.

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Response to Texano78704 (Reply #74)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:01 PM

95. Not so much throwing it out a window as much as simple concern with unintended consequences...

"how some suddenly throw science out the window on this issue..."

Not so much throwing it out your proverbial window as much as may be merely concern with unintended consequences.

E.g., Robert Oppenheimer symbolized for many the folly of scientists thinking they could control how others would use their research, and has also been seen as symbolizing the dilemmas involving the moral responsibility of the scientist in the nuclear world (from Thorpes wonderful book on scientific ethics and responsibilities, 'Disciplining Experts: Scientific Authority and Liberal Democracy in the Oppenheimer Case'

However, I do understand that we often trivialize and minimize those with opinions different that our own for a better sense of self-validation.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #65)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:09 AM

75. Not exactly specific

insertion methods are not specific in their targets in the DNA. They are not able to control that at this time.

"Gene Insertion Methods Create Mutations, Fragments, and Multiple Copies"
Institute for Responsible Technology

Peole working on the Human Genome Project have come to the realization that the more they are learning, the more they realize they do not know. We do not have the knowledge base to enter into this type of technology and while Monsanto et. al. will profit, it is the larger human population that will pay for the errors. Insurance companies will not cover damage from this technology so the government - US - will be on the hook. Monsanto will not be sharing their profits with the US taxpayer.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #65)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:27 PM

99. "useful analogy and indication" - famous last words...along the lines of "too cheap to meter" with

 

nuke power

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Response to byeya (Reply #99)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 07:30 PM

107. No one is claiming that salmon will be so plentiful...

...that there would be no need to charge for them by the pound.

A better analogy would be to those who have claimed that nuke power is completely safe. Of course, it isn't. But it isn't as dangerous as some alarmists feared.

I don't think GM foods are as dangerous as some fear.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #56)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:33 PM

94. Fascinating -- Repackaged "Creation Science"

"Because living organisms have natural barriers to protect themselves against the introduction of DNA from a different species . . ."

So your position is that there are created "kinds," and speciation cannot occur because the "natural barriers" between these "kinds" prevents it? Perhaps you can explain precisely what this "natural barrier" is, and where we can find it.

"With genetic engineering, scientists can breach species barriers set up by nature."

Replace "nature" with "God" in that sentence, and you would be welcomed with open arms at the Ken Ham College of Creation Magic.

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Response to LTX (Reply #94)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 03:19 PM

100. Silliness

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:57 PM

45. You could ask the same if you cross-bred two cattle

Or two pigs.

Or two chickens.

Or created a new, non-GM variety of corn through cross-breeding.

ALL reproduction involving sharing DNA between two organisms creates new protein string recombinations that have different folding patterns. Those folding patterns are part of natural gene expression that explain why your dog's puppies might have white spots instead of brown ones, or why your kid has blue eyes but yours are green.

If this is something you are truly concerned about, you'd have to suggest we all eat nothing but cloned livestock and crops for the foreseeable future, since we've established through years of consumption that their unique protein foldings are not toxic.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #45)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:22 PM

57. No - see post #56

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 05:21 PM

102. false

"All agriculture detrimentally affects the surrounding environment..."

Proper grazing techniques RESTORE soil fertility, ENHANCE water holding capacity, INCREASE biodiversity, SLOW erosion, IMPROVE water quality, SEQUESTER carbon... the list of positive effects is long. This is contrast to the effects of growing the corn and soybean used to feed your GE salmon. Did you not know this?

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Response to AlecBGreen (Reply #102)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 07:02 PM

104. I'm sure there are agricultural techniques that are less harmful than others...

...and I'm also sure that remediation is possible. But the simple fact of the matter is that agriculture is the willful bending of nature to mankind's purpose and thus has some sort of a detrimental affect on the state of the natural world.

For instance, if you have to restore soil fertility through proper grazing techniques, it means that you have, at some point, depleted it.

I think that corn is used to feed cattle, but not salmon - salmon are carnivorous. Farmed salmon are fed a meal made up of other wild fish and marine organisms, and thus farming does not alleviate the burden on the fishery. It shifts that burden to other species. Salmon is a keystone species in many ecologies, however, so farming may be the better practice for more than just economic reasons.

There seems to be an effort to replace marine protean with vegetable protean in salmon farming operations, however, and that would be even better for the fisheries. But then we would be back to relying on large scale corn and soy farming. And so it goes....

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 05:48 AM

82. Mutant corporate 'food' = Mutant corporate 'people'

over time...chow down, if you wish -- but if you demand to know which foods are mutant so you can choose them, you are out of luck. Your free will is negated. And if you demand to know which foods are clean and natural, you also are out of luck. Your free will is negated. Welcome to the HOMELAND, Inc.



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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:36 PM

3. One of these days they'll push one too many times and the people will push back in the

opposite direction. Profits can't be the only consideration in every decision.

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Response to bloomington-lib (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:06 PM

27. What makes you think profits were a consideration in this case?

Profits are the petitioners concern, the FDA examines public safety, health and environmental factors. They aren't concerned about profits.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:05 PM

50. cynicism basically. If they can do it in other cases, they can do it in this one.

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Response to bloomington-lib (Reply #50)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:53 PM

63. I'm not sure what you mean, but...

...since I don't think they have made an incorrect decisions in this case, I probably wouldn't disagree with very many other decisions they have made.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:18 PM

55. Ignorant or shill? Examine the FDA's track record...

 

...over the years, particuarly recently.

If/when they do finally act at all on a matter of public safety or health it's generally many years behind the evidence, and a hop skip and a jump ahead of the howling mob.

The FDA acts ONLY when it has no choice but to act, (ie the public found out), otherwise it is very, very careful about making sure it doesn't get in the way of corporate profits.



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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #55)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:51 PM

62. If you want me to examine the FDA's track record...

...you will have to provide a link to some sort of reference. Preferably something that is statistically based, rather than a "parade of horribles". I know of no great failure on their part.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #62)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:03 AM

71. No great failures perhaps, but a death by 1000 cuts...

 

...is still a death.

Permitting self regulation in virtually every area they're supposed to oversee would be a good place to start.

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Response to bloomington-lib (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:07 PM

28. they'll push one too many times and the people will push back

well then it will be time for Soylent Green

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:12 PM

9. not true, just yet. we still have about a month to submit public comment

"The FDA will take comments from the public on its report for 60 days before making it final"

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_26779.cfm

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:28 PM

13. Here come the FrankenFish!

...these corporations are bound-and-determined to kill off this world, with their scary shit fish and GMO grains.

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:23 PM

67. It's just a salmon. It just reaches full size sooner. Its no big deal. (nt)

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:32 PM

14. I just started a petition at the White House site--PLEASE

help spread the link for response. It needs 150 responses before it is published on the petition site.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-it-illegal-introduce-genetically-modified-plants-or-animals-environment-andor-sell-same/8kvZNLS3

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Response to randr (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:43 PM

17. Done! n/t

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Response to randr (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:55 PM

23. Done!

Thank you!

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Response to randr (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:59 PM

24. I've signed many of these

I have signed this before but over corn. This started with the aproval of President Clinton. It is a toss up which was worse NAFTA or this. Our corn seeds have built in pesticides in them.

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Response to randr (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 03:30 AM

80. done! nt

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:49 PM

20. Done!

Happy to do it

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:06 PM

26. these fish should be kept to farm stock only

releasing them into the wild is shameful and could endanger the salmon species as we know it

bred with an an eel like fish??????? yuk yuk yuk

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:09 PM

29. The plan is to produce...

... only sterile females at inland farms. "Escapees" can't reproduce, either natively or by interbreeding with wild stocks, because they are all triploid, with three sets of chromosomes. They plan to provide farmers with eggs rather than fish.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:39 PM

36. Yeah - doesn't sound very appetizing

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #36)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:52 PM

41. Approximatly 69% of world salmon consumption...

... is the product of salmon aquaculture (2007). So most folks must find it appetizing to some degree.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:55 PM

43. I was referring to the eel in the GM'd salmon.

I don't know what eel tastes like, but the idea of eel being part of the salmon certainly grosses me out.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #43)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:03 PM

48. It's not eel; it's eel pout

Which is actually closely related to salmon: http://www.icefishingworld.com/articles/eel-pout.html

Not the most appetizing fish around, but then again, Chilean sea bass and monkfish are regarded as delicacies and they're ugly as sin: http://lygsbtd.wordpress.com/tag/chilean-sea-bass/

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #48)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:08 PM

53. in my neck of the woods eelpout is listed as a 'rough fish' by the MN DNR

never had any experience with them though

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:08 PM

61. Aquaculture and GMO Salmon

are two entirely different things. Aquaculture is a way to raise fish in a way that the by-products/nutrients are fed back to feed plants. Frankensalmon is salmon that has been genetically-engineered by Monsanto. Few studies have been offered on the long-term effects on humans and animals; however, the few that have been done have produced some pretty shocking results and none of them good.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #61)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:33 PM

68. You are right, they are two different things...

...however, this fish is just a salmon, not a "franken" anything. It produces growth hormone continuously rather than seasonally, so it reaches full size sooner. It was not developed by Monsanto, it was developed by AquaBounty Technologies.

Since its just a salmon that produces growth hormone on a more regular basis there isn't any need for extensive studies on long term effects. Its just a salmon.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #36)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:07 PM

52. I love salmon but not sam-eel

sounds just nasty

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:09 PM

30. Done

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:32 PM

33. It sounds like

they want to take genes from the largest Pacific Salmon (the Chinook or King) and put them into the smallest (the Humpback or Pink). Humpies are the most commercially important of the 5 species. This bodes ill for both fish and fishermen, maybe even traditional canneries, I think. I can already imagine giant fish farms of mutated, monster Humpies sitting beside giant processing ships and lots of them escaping into the ocean.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:50 PM

40. Yuck.

And humpies are almost as unappetizing as chum salmon. Eww, gross.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:59 PM

46. Since about 1990, most of the growth in fishing...

...has been in aquaculture. The fisheries seem to have stabilized volume. I don't think this will detrimentally affect them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Global_total_fish_harvest.png

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:39 PM

34. Mutant Crapola Corporate foodlike product will turn us all into Zombies

massive mutant corruption in Big Food

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Response to Berlum (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:41 PM

37. Foodlike products. Many of our foods are headed in that direction.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:49 PM

39. This makes me really, really angry.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #39)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:53 PM

42. Makes me really, really hungry. (nt)

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:03 PM

47. I just prefer real salmon

and real fishermen.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #47)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:06 PM

51. In an ideal world, I would too

But we've got 7.5 billion mouths to feed on this planet. I don't think we want them all trying to be fed by fishermen chasing dwindling salmon stocks across the oceans.

Ideally, the long-term solution would be to reduce global populations through family planning initiatives and eat a mostly vegetarian diet, but in the meantime people seem to like their meat.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #51)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:35 PM

69. +10 !!! (NT)

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #51)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 05:25 PM

103. we have more than enough food and land to feed the world

GMOs are not the answer. A vegetarian diet is good for the environment but not necessary. In fact I would argue that the proper use of beef, sheep and goat herds can improve the environment. Proper grazing techniques have many environmental benefits: slowing erosion, building soil fertility, sequestering carbon, etc. The problem is, few ranchers are aware of them or use them.

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Response to AlecBGreen (Reply #103)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 07:15 PM

105. Maybe so, but apparently...

...people don't prefer to eat whatever it is that we have more than enough of, or would rather pay a lot less for it.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #47)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:11 PM

66. Your choice - nothing wrong with that. (nt)

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:38 PM

58. And the salmon industry thanks you. nt

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #39)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:56 PM

44. Last holiday break the NDDA was signed on new year's eve

every year a quiet gift is left for us when we are not looking

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #39)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:39 PM

59. Angry enough to protest in the streets????? n/t

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Response to Hotler (Reply #59)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:50 PM

60. Angry enough to fill my freezer with real salmon.

This is a touchy issue in Alaska where wild salmon are a big part of our economy. Our delegation, both the Dem and Republicans, are fighting this. I doubt President Obama would pay much attention to a bunch of Alaskans in the street. He already knows how we feel and he apparently doesn't care.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:56 AM

73. This administration has done something I never thought possible.....

...They've made me agree with Rep. Don Young (R-Alaska)

Don Young Will Break You



You keep those damn fish out of my waters. It will ruin what I think is one of the finest products in the world,” (Congressman Don) Young said in an interview, saying he fears that the spread of fish farms could eventually contaminate the wild salmon industry in Alaska. He wants to force delays in any FDA approval. link

- Please President Obama, help me not agree with Don Young........

K&R

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #73)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 03:15 AM

79. Every once in a while Don gets something right.

I believe he voted for Lilly Ledbetter, too, one of only two republicans who did. Shocked the hell out of me. This business of the Frankenfish has everyone in Alaska up in arms.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:11 AM

76. "Nation of Change"?

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #76)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:07 PM

111. I think the key word to explain the sources is "...Quietly..."

If this story were breaking on CNN, MSNBC, NYT, et.al. , it would not be
happening so "quietly"

Here's another lesser known site covering this story, if that helps any
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/fda-pushes-to-release-genetically-modified-salmon-into-environment/

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 04:04 AM

81. Don't forget that in addition to Taylor, Monsanto have an ally in Clarence Thomas, SCOTUS judge

 

who refuses to recuse himself from Monsanto cases. And Hillary Clinton worked at the Rose law firm which worked with Monsanto, although I'm not clear as to any direct involvement on her part.

The government is infested with Monsanto. Which is how they win in the US, while simultaneously being thrown out of dozens of other countries.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 07:23 AM

83. Hey it's easy, I just won't eat salmon anymore. No big deal.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:10 AM

84. That article was badly written.

I remember we had lost all the wild salmon up north they could not migrate for spawning and were very over fished in the sea. They removed some dams,release a lot of hatchlings and seemed to bring that resourse back.

What I wonder is the rapid hormone caused growth rate. Those fast grow salmon will eat more. I hope they don't take necessary food from another species.

Then they need plenty of fat reserves to migrate upstreams to spawn. What if they are to thin and die from lack of energy before they spawn.

It already seems like pen raised salmon have an anemic color and taste compaired to wild salmon.

This could be the same as releasing our domestic breeds of cows back into the wild. They would never make it in the wild due to the changes from breeding.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:47 AM

86. ASIAN CARP

 

If anyone should need reminding the Asian Carp is a prime example of something going bad really bad.
If some of you don't know, this fish is being held back from going into the Great Lakes by a charged wire.
This fish was going to be used for something like clean up scum on the bottom of something and when HURRICANE KATERINA hit all hell broke looses on the farms down south.
These fish have not one predator in this country to kill them off, ot one but the FDA let them come in--go figure.
So if any one thinks that AQUA ADVANTAGE and the cronies in the FDA are going to stop this its is now time to call a CONGRESSMAN/WOMAN and a SENATOR NOW.
There was very good article in the Nation magazine on this subject and it makes you think---why are we doing this----greed and only greed.
The CREE Nation has it right:
“Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realise we cannot eat money.”

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:29 AM

88. great documentary on linktv last night: the world according to monsanto

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:16 AM

91. Why be so terrified?

People have been modifying animals from the start in order to increase desired qualities. Originally it was done through selective breeding, now we can do it faster through genetic engineering.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:38 AM

93. No surprise here, as all presidents since Reagan serve the corporations!

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:27 PM

96. Frankenfish.....nt

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:34 PM

109. Whatever happened to Jeremy Rifkin?

He used to be the leading freaker outer over this stuff.

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