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Wed Dec 26, 2012, 10:30 PM

Arizona plan would arm principals

Source: CNN

Arizona's attorney general proposed arming one principal or employee at each school to defend against attacks such as the recent Connecticut school massacre.

"The ideal solution would be to have an armed police officer in each school," Attorney General Tom Horne said in a news release Wednesday. But budget cuts have limited the number of Arizona schools with "school resource officers" on campus, he said.

The "next best solution," Horne said, "is to have one person in the school trained to handle firearms, to handle emergency situations, and possessing a firearm in a secure location."

A shooter, armed with a semiautomatic rifle and two other guns, on December 14 killed 26 people -- including six faculty members and 20 young students -- at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/26/us/arizona-armed-principals/index.html



Horne's the same atty. gen. who pressured a school district to cut ethnic studies.

43 replies, 4640 views

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Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply Arizona plan would arm principals (Original post)
alp227 Dec 2012 OP
underthematrix Dec 2012 #1
lunasun Dec 2012 #4
donnasgirl Dec 2012 #11
donnasgirl Dec 2012 #16
alp227 Dec 2012 #18
starroute Dec 2012 #19
donnasgirl Dec 2012 #20
Tempest Dec 2012 #33
donnasgirl Dec 2012 #42
dbackjon Dec 2012 #30
LineLineLineLineReply I
donnasgirl Dec 2012 #31
Tempest Dec 2012 #34
dbackjon Dec 2012 #39
donnasgirl Dec 2012 #43
Tempest Dec 2012 #32
lunasun Dec 2012 #2
valerief Dec 2012 #3
OffWithTheirHeads Dec 2012 #5
Gregorian Dec 2012 #6
tblue Dec 2012 #13
L0oniX Dec 2012 #7
tavalon Dec 2012 #8
williesgirl Dec 2012 #9
atreides1 Dec 2012 #25
rrneck Dec 2012 #10
tblue Dec 2012 #12
blueclown Dec 2012 #14
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #15
onehandle Dec 2012 #17
Nanjing to Seoul Dec 2012 #21
blackspade Dec 2012 #22
Captain Boomerang Dec 2012 #23
cosmicone Dec 2012 #24
Prometheus_unbound Dec 2012 #26
DaveJ Dec 2012 #41
RandiFan1290 Dec 2012 #27
Evasporque Dec 2012 #28
ywcachieve Dec 2012 #29
lonestarnot Dec 2012 #35
1Greensix Dec 2012 #36
Iggo Dec 2012 #37
Demo_Chris Dec 2012 #38
DaveJ Dec 2012 #40

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 10:38 PM

1. Arming school personnel is fraught with

so many problems the NRA has not thought through. Will school personnel have to have both a physical and mental status exam to be eligible to carry a gun. How would it affect school personnel who have a drug or domestic violence history? Would we have to wrry about some unstable or stressed out school personnel branishing their weapons as a way to keep students in line? What happens when a teacher and student get into it and out of anger the teacher pulls their weapon? How will some students respond to the knowledge that their teachers and other school personnel are armed?

Arming school personnel does not seem like a very safe idea.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 10:41 PM

4. or a kid got the weapon away from them ?The person is not trained as an officer would be

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:42 PM

11. Somebody please explain

To me how you would answer to this,

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/23/School-Obama-s-Daughters-Attend-Has-11-Armed-Guards-Not-Counting-Secret-Service

why are his kids protected and not everybody elses and if you stop and think about it they have a good point.

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Response to donnasgirl (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:22 AM

18. Given the non stop threats towards Obama and his family

Sidwell has to have the security to prevent something disastrous. Obama has enough trouble just being head of the state. If something were to happen to his kids...wow.

Plus, didn't Sidwell have some of its own non SS security when Bill Clinton's daughter went there?

I'd say that anyone who's providing armed security at any public place like a school must be active duty law enforcement, period.

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Response to donnasgirl (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:29 AM

19. The next time someone pushes Breitbot talking points at you, counter with this

http://jezebel.com/5963372/massive-number-of-death-threats-against-president-obama-exhausts-the-secret-service

Being the President is a much harder job than I CAN B PRESIDENT Barbie and the movie First Kid make it seem. In fact, one of the occupational hazards of the job are near-constant death threats. And SURPRISE the same President who inspires billboards more racist than a cartoon version of Birth of a Nation starring the cast of Loony Tunes has also moved tens of thousands of people to make threats against the First Family's life. How many, you may ask? Try around 30 a day. Or about 40,000 since Barack Obama first began receiving death threats, back in 2007.

According to a super depressing report linked from The Daily Kos, the Secret Service doesn't even tell the President about the threats on his life out of concern that knowing the precise level of crazy out there would distract him from all the important Presidenting he has to do.

A dubious-looking petition site claims Obama has received more death threats than any other President, and while the head of the Secret Service says the organization doesn't comment on the exact number of threats that face the head of the executive branch, multiple news reports have characterized the number of threats against Obama as "overwhelming" and "unprecedented."

But the threats haven't stopped at Barack; in 2009, a woman who knew the Obamas' Hawaii vacation itinerary and threatened to "blow away" the First Lady was arrested a mile from where the First Family was staying. Others have threatened the Obama girls, Sasha and Malia.

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Response to starroute (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:41 AM

20. First things first

I agree with what you say,second and have already stated this to the other individual to no avail,2nd thing is the presidents buddy rahm,and who the hell is this Breitbot it is the first time i have heard of it.

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Response to donnasgirl (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:11 AM

33. "who the hell is this Breitbot" You know damned well who he is.

Or are you saying you posted a cite to him out of ignorance?

Which no one is going to buy.

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Response to Tempest (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:52 PM

42. tempest i am

not saying anything,this was sent to me by a friend from the west coast and it is the very first time i have ever heard of it.I guess i should explain,i am a trucker who is home about every 2 or 3 weeks when it's busy and right now we are kind of slow,my point is i do not have a lot of time to catch up on things.

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Response to donnasgirl (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:33 AM

30. Newbie pushing right-wing TROLL meme

Hmmm


So, you don't want the Presidents kids protected?

You don't think they are vunerable to kidnapping?

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Response to dbackjon (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:04 AM

31. I

Have your right wing troll hanging my friend,do you think i would be the only democrat in this site who owns a gun,(try again with your sissy name calling).

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Response to donnasgirl (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:12 AM

34. Are you drinking?

Your posts are getting less and less readable.

This one made no sense at all.

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Response to donnasgirl (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:30 PM

39. Only one stupid enough to use a right wing talking point

Then act ignorant about it.


Sissy? Who the fuck you calling a sissy? What, you think you are a tough shit because you own a gun?

You should be on the mental list.

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Response to dbackjon (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:05 PM

43. dbackjon

No i am not a right wing troll,what i am is a veteran and a individual who thinks what happend is a dam shame and any person who thinks otherwise would have to be nuts.
Yes i think Obamas kids should be protected,but my point is why not ours (in my case grand children) this world is full of all kinds of nut cases and i just happen to think all of our treasures should be protected as anybody elses.The kids in this country or any country for that matter should be protected.
Please forgive me for sounding a bit angry,but at this point in time i am when people run around calling other folks names (troll) it sounds like the tea party and what they do to people for having a different view.In my opinion there is no need for name calling,this is how shit gets started in the first place.

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Response to donnasgirl (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:09 AM

32. It's simple. Death threats against the president up 400% since Obama's election

According to the Secret Service.

It appears the armed guards are prudent.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 10:38 PM

2. Arizona - the new Texas!

"one person in the school trained to handle firearms, to handle emergency situations, and possessing a firearm in a secure location." Waa?

I think at least Columbine CO had a real full time security guard......did not stop mass murder ...but this here is the true bottom of the barrel idea

I did not think it could get any more idiotic

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 10:39 PM

3. Any state with Jan Brewer as governor would let their kids

starve to death so they wouldn't go hungry.

Bass-akwards.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 10:42 PM

5. Arizona school principle?




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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 10:59 PM

6. NOOOOOooo! I remember that guy from at least two years ago.

Good times. He's like some kind of mutated Hobbit with an arsenal.

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:44 PM

13. He does have a little weeny Hobbit.

Man he's hot.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:09 PM

7. Everything will be ok in Arizona as long as you don't say "fuck that shit".

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:09 PM

8. The ideal solution would be to have sane and reasonable gun laws

Arming the principal is about the stupidest thing I've heard yet.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:29 PM

9. No surprise here. Why do the good people of Arizona put up w/this?

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Response to williesgirl (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:56 AM

25. Why?

Because there are not as many "good people" of Arizona as you may think!

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:30 PM

10. I don't necessarily have a problem

with a police officer in a school. I don't know how much it would help, but I wouldn't mind. But as far as I'm concerned guns don't belong in schools and I don't like the idea of arming the staff at a school. A police officer with a gun and a badge, okay, but nobody else.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:42 PM

12. I teach. I don't want my boss armed.

I don't want a principal who is willing and trained to kill. I don't want guns and ammo anywhere around my students. Fuck no! Arizona is going way rogue. I will never set foot in that backwards pit. And I am so sorry for the good and sensible people who call it home. My sympathies.

Hasn't anyone ever heard of a bad teacher or other faculty? We are not perfect. Do not put one more killing machine in people's hands!

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:49 PM

14. That worked out well at Columbine.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:50 PM

15. NJ: I had a similar discussion with my daughter's elementary school principal.

Unfortunately, the reality is as follows:

1) Towns do not have the $75K a year to provide for a police officer in each school, including salary, training, uniforms, equipment, pension, and coverage when they are out of the building. My town has 14 schools. The High Schools have officers, but not the elementary and middle schools.

2) If there is an event at an elementary school, the principal would be the probable early contact.

3) The principal, as first contact, will risk their life meeting the aggressor.

4) Arming all teachers is ludicrous.

5) Having a police officer in an elementary school is unsettling for small children.

6) Most schools do not have highly-secured entry points, similar to England.

7) In NJ, the governor severely cut school funding, promoting charter schools, as he was a private school outsourcing lobbyist before becoming governor and is a major stock holder in one outsourcing firm. But, he was able to find $1.2 Billion to give folks making above $400K tax breaks to coincide with the federal tax breaks they are getting. There will be limited school construction efforts in the foreseeable future to address security, most will come from towns and PTA fundraisers.



===

I am against having any type of armed forces in an elementary school or middle school, but we must keep ourselves in reality. With limited funds, the ability to properly secure most schools, including private schools, is an unobtainable goal. The entry points need to be secured to prevent intrusion even under fire, but that will cost tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands per school to implement. In my town, police response is under 2 minutes, but in those 2 minutes, especially if entry is achieved, could be extremely costly. The aggressor could do as much damage as possible before locking themselves in a crowed classroom to complete the carnage.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:58 PM

17. Sick conservative gun fucks. nt

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:19 AM

21. This asshole destroyed Arizona schools being Superintendent of Public Instruction

 

Now he's doing it again.

We in Arizona seem to really love dipshits!

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:39 AM

22. This is a stupid idea.

So principles are the only ones that get armed?
What if they are crappy shots? what are their liabilities?
This is such a fucked up idea on so many levels.
These nuts are trying to turn every place into an armed camp for their own profit.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:22 AM

23. Armed people do not prevent people from getting shot and killed.

Examples; Bank robberies still happen, soldiers still get killed, cops get killed everyday.

The idea of arming people to prevent crimes comes from a limited imagination.

Besides.The principals should be armed anyway because it is an American's right to bear arms ! RAWR!!!
(They don't need no stinkin badges.)

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:46 AM

24. Republicans should have a new jingle ..

I'm packer, you're a packer, he's a packer, she's a packer, they're packers, wouldn't you like to be a packer too?

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:22 AM

26. Would you send your son to a school where teachers can shoot students?

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Response to Prometheus_unbound (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:11 PM

41. Good point

Just a matter of time before a principal has a mental breakdown and shoots up the school.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:42 AM

27. Does the principal have to wear body armor all day?

Are they obligated to run towards gunfire? Do they go outside and meet with the police in their safe staging area where they wait for the shooting to stop?

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:13 AM

28. such a non-proactive non-solution

State Congressman: We need to do something about gun violence.

Gun Lobby: What we need is more guns. That way when someone goes to shoot people there is a better chance someone will shoot them.

State Congressman: Why you are right. But won't more guns make it more likely that gun violence will occur?

Gun Lobby: Of course not. We will all be safer. Talk like that more and we won't be attending any of your breakfasts.

State Congressman: No, no...no worries I was just thinking.

Gun Lobby: We don't pay you to think.

State COngressman: Oh, yeah....Will I get a gun too?

Gun Lobby: Sure, come out to my car you can pick one out for you the kids. I've got some high capacity magazines too.

State Congressman: Cool.

Gun Lobby: Hows your oldest?

State Congressman: Oh he is fine since he got back and stays on his meds.

Gun Lobby: Well thats great I have a great rifle for him, AR-15 and a real flak jacket.

SC: Oh he will like that.

GL: Yup make a real man out of him.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:54 AM

29. Most principals and teachers DO NOT want to be armed.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:12 AM

35. Tommie go blow your horn you ignorant motherfucker.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:13 AM

36. School classrooms need more exit doors, not guns

The major reason all those kids at Sandy Hook died was that they could not exit their classroom after the shooter had entered the building. School classrooms should be remodeled to have two or more exit doors on opposite sides of the room, or 90 degrees to the main door. Multiple story schools would have classrooms interconnected with doors so kids could move from one room to another without going into a central hallway. Single story buildings would not need full-time use doors, as emergency one-way doors would suffice for many installations.
Anything makes more sense than armed teachers or principals (who aren't at their schools at least one day a week due to other job obligations). Armed guards only make sense if they are actual police officers. If armed guards are on campus a shooter could just wait a few minutes and kill kids at a school crossing, so should we next arm the local crossing guards with AK-47's. And then, since kids walk from the school crosswalk to home unguarded, maybe should have some way to protect them. Should we hire guards to protect them every step of the way??? Of COURSE. We already do. We call them cops.

More room exits, not guns on campus.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:25 AM

37. Attention School Shooters: When in AZ, go for the principal first. (n/t)

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:05 PM

38. In my opinion, this is not a bad idea

 

I am picturing a weapon in a locked case.

Anyway...

I agree that it is extremely unlikely to help. But right now we have heroic teachers and school officials charging off to confront these maniacs with nothing more than unbelievable courage and their unimaginable love and sense of duty. This is heroism of the HIGHEST order. They deserve freaking statues in Washington, and highways named after them. Damn right I trust them with a weapon!

Honestly, I would have no problem if there were a weapon locked in a case in every classroom. Perhaps an electronic lock controlled from the principle's office. That way, the next time a teacher places her body between her kids and danger, she might have a chance to kill the cocksucker before he slaughters her children.

How likely is it to help? No one knows. But when the situation has gone that horrifically bad and the Devil is stalking through the classrooms, it's a chance.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:52 PM

40. Guns - No problem

Sex-ed. Now way. Ridiculous.

But, I guess that's what's gotta happen in a country such as ours, unless guns are banned, which doesn't seem likely to happen.

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