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Wed Dec 26, 2012, 05:33 PM

Mohamed Morsi signs Egypt's new constitution into law

Source: guardian

Egypt's controversial new constitution has been signed into law by President Mohammed Morsi, a day after he announced it had been approved by a large majority in a referendum that his opponents claim was marked by widespread irregularities.

Critics say the new constitution, which was hurriedly drafted by Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood and its Salafist allies, is undemocratic and too Islamist, and that it could allow clerics to intervene in the lawmaking process and leave minority groups without proper legal protection.

Results of the two-part referendum, announced on Tuesday, showed that an overwhelming 63.8% of Egyptians had approved the text, paving the way for a parliamentary elections in about two months.

The result is the Islamists' third straight electoral victory since the country's former autocratic leader, Hosni Mubarak, was toppled last year.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/26/mohamed-morsi-egypt-constitution-law

18 replies, 2503 views

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Arrow 18 replies Author Time Post
Reply Mohamed Morsi signs Egypt's new constitution into law (Original post)
alp227 Dec 2012 OP
Coyotl Dec 2012 #1
MADem Dec 2012 #2
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #3
MADem Dec 2012 #4
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #5
MADem Dec 2012 #6
riderinthestorm Dec 2012 #7
MADem Dec 2012 #8
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #10
MADem Dec 2012 #12
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #13
MADem Dec 2012 #15
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #17
MADem Dec 2012 #18
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #9
MADem Dec 2012 #11
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #14
MADem Dec 2012 #16

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 08:30 PM

1. Right on!

New Egypt Constitution - draft translated
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021914955

Article 14 - minimum wage that would guarantee decent living standards .. maximum wage in civil serv
Article 26 - Social justice is the foundation of taxation and other public finance duties.
Article 52 - The freedom to form syndicates, unions and cooperatives is a right guaranteed by law.
Article 63 - Work is a right, duty and honor for every citizen, guaranteed by the State on the basis
Article 69 - All individuals have the right to a healthy environment. The State shall safeguard the

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:48 AM

2. This sucks--totally.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/world/july-dec12/egypt1_12-26.html

MOHAMED ELBARADEI, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate: It defies a lot of the basic human value we live by, like freedom of religion, freedom of expression, independence of the judiciary.

One of the most dangerous parts in that constitution, that it opened the door for many controversial school of religious thoughts to -- to seep through the legislative process and undermine the authority of the judiciary.

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Response to MADem (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:52 AM

3. It probably neither sucks totally nor is the most desirable constitution ever.

It is the constitution supported by the majority of voters (who bothered to vote).

It has its good provisions and its not-so-good ones. It is the latest political expression of a 5,000-year-old culture.

Political struggle will continue.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:54 AM

4. If you are a female or a Coptic Xtian it sucks. Totally. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:16 AM

5. We'll see how it plays out. Egypt doesn't become Berkeley overnight.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:49 AM

6. I saw how it played out in Iran in 79. Meet the new boss, worse than the old boss.

There was a cadre of people in the streets who were deliriously hopeful back then, too. They're living in London, TX, Los Angeles, and NYC now...

It's not a question of the place "becoming Berkeley." It's a question of ensuring VERY basic rights for female citizens and religious minorities, as well as ensuring that the "beatings will not resume" with impunity. It's just not cool to 'trade away' the rights of half of the citizenry in exchange for...what? A pig in a poke? A surfeit of happiness for fundamentalists who like to control and abuse women and limit their freedoms?

The assaults against women have been happening ever since they put Hosni in the pokey--and I predict it will get worse, not better. I'm not alone, either. BTDT, bought the tee shirt--it sucks to see half a population repressed like that, using religion as a cudgel.

CIVIL RIGHTS
A slap in the face for Egypt's women


Nihad Abu El Konsam voted against it. "This constitution will set Egypt 100 years back," she said. The fact that the constitution's is based primarily on Sharia law is not the problem. "The fundamental principles of Sharia law are equality and human dignity - the same principles all religion," said Nihad Abu El Konsam....the constitution is extremely imprecise. It leaves an "open door," Abu El Konsam believes, for extreme fundamentalist interpretation and discrimination against women and other Egyptian citizens.
'Every citizen is equal' isn't enough
Nor does the Muslim Brotherhood's assertion of citizen "equality" within the constitution give solace to the women's right activist. In her office, she pulls out a stack of case-files. The same 'equal rights' constitutional article, Abu El Konsam says, has been in the Egyptian constitution since 1971.
"And yet since that time, for 40 years now, women have suffered discrimination in all areas. Even today we don't have female judges in Egypt holding the same high-level positions as men. Women aren't even allowed into some industries. There's discrimination in income levels and education. Unemployment levels are four times higher for women than for men. We don't even have a law against abuse in the household. When we do go to court, the offender is acquitted."
The lawyer believes that the Islamists have "tailored" the constitution to meet their own demands. She also worries that genital mutilation of young girls and women could once more be legalized, that the age of marital consent might be dropped to nine or 11 years of age, or the right to divorce once more thrown into question.

http://www.dw.de/a-slap-in-the-face-for-egypts-women/a-16459115

This shit is just not "OK" and it's not a question of "self-determination"--it's abusive and wrong.

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Response to MADem (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:35 AM

7. +1. The LGBT community is also now in a terrible position nt

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:01 PM

8. Anyone who is an "other" is pretty much screwed.

If you aren't male, conservative, Islamic in appearance (i.e. a sufficiency of facial hair and dressed 'devoutly'--no tight tee shirts or other clothing, short sleeves, shorts, etc.) you potentially have a Real Problem with the "authorities."

The Pharaonic Culture in Egypt has always been the tie that binds--it's an historical point of pride shared by all. This MB approach shatters that bond and, if not checked, will result in an exodus of brains and talent from Egypt faster than anyone can say "This sucks!"

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Response to MADem (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:07 PM

10. Nothing would be better if Mubarak has stayed in power.

We already know that he would never have allowed democracy...just as the Shah would never have allowed it...just as Somoza would never have allowed it...just as Thieu and Ky would never have allowed it...and just as the Tsar would never have allowed it...and in each case, it would have been impossible to preserve a leader that virtually everyone in said leader's jurisdiction wanted overthrown).

Our country needs to learn from this...and, for the first time, to base the work of creating global stability on allying ourselves with the poor and the dispossessed, not always limiting our choices to backing either the rottenest of the Romanovs or the Kerenskiest of the Kerenskys.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:28 PM

12. Who--save you--is postulating a strawman scenario where Mubarak stays in power? nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:31 PM

13. That is what all this "Egypt is a dead loss" rhetoric is about.

That's why people still keep bringing up 1979 and Iran.

The argument that they're making is that these situations prove that it would have been better to keep the old tyrants in power.

The truth is, these countries moved in this direction because the people wanted something else...and that the only thing WE can do is to find some way to work with them and make the situation as humane and open as possible.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:30 PM

15. I am one of those "people" and I am not saying what you're claiming at all.

I left Iran in 1979, in a hurry, too.

The people wanted something else than was delivered--women marched in the streets of Teheran actually thinking they'd get MORE rights with Shah gone--instead they got servitude and slavery. Gays, who were sneered at under Shah, were hanged in the town square under Khomeini. Armenians and Jews, Zoroastrians and Copts, citizens of that land since it was called Persia, and respected as "People of the Book" and protected as religious/ethnic minorities (and who owned the shops where you went for booze, bacon and Xmas trees) were hounded, hectored, insulted and run out of the country. THEIR country. THEIR homeland--for centuries. But hey, "they" were minorities, "others," so "they" just didn't count.

I don't think any of these "people" "wanted" to "move in this direction." I know full well the women who get flogged in the streets for a poorly adjusted rusari or a 'too tight' bulky raincoat (in the middle of the summer), to this very day by the Vice and Virtue assholes, don't particularly care for "this direction" one bit. I doubt the families of kids who get hanged for their orientation like it, either.

It would be nice if a few people in this world had the intestinal fortitude to point out that this kind of shit is just wrong, instead of pretending that it's "will of the people" when votes are suppressed and a result is gamed to produce something that is closer to tyranny than democracy.

But whatever. Just turn your head, don't look too close. It's all fun and games from a distance. From a distance, too, you don't really notice that all of the "power people" in the picture look the same.

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Response to MADem (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:32 PM

17. I agree that the people wanted something else in Iran.

And they should get it. And they will.

It just has to be done in a way that avoids sounding like the colonial past.

Not out of any fixation with "sounding p.c.", out of the need to avoid sabotaging the situation through badly-handled outside intervention.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:06 PM

18. It's been over 3 decades. How long must we wait? That's the question.

A majority of the nation doesn't even remember "The Shah." An entire generation has grown up with this repressive bullshit as the norm. A lot of the post-revolution troublemakers (i.e. the "I'm not down with this Islamic regime bullshit" crowd) were sent to the "front" as cannon fodder during the Iran-Iraq War, and that took care of those gripers--if they came back at all, they came back maimed and unable to cause any trouble for the ulema.

Kids today look through their parents' shit, and are shocked to find pictures of "Madar" in a mini-skirt and "Pedar" in a pair of tight bell-bottoms and a polyester shirt with three buttons opened, and a garish (real) gold medallion nestled in his hairy chest, taken at a Tehran nightclub-disco at a table littered with cigarettes and booze. Everyone's smiling and laughing, and no Vice and Virtue monitors are anywhere in sight. If they look closely, they'll see, in the background, uncle and auntie and that farty old elder who is always squawking at people to keep it down at the mosque on Friday night. If they keep digging, they'll find their parents' disco cassette tapes and those snapshots of the happy couple swimming together in skimpy bathing suits or skiing in tight fitting ski suits, not overseas, but right at home, in Teheran and the ski resorts to the north--in short, behaving like "regular" people who lived in the real world.

Until the whole world decides that a woman or a gay person or a religious minority matters as much as the well-larded dudes in the religious robes who hold the keys to the treasure house and have the ability to order the army out to crack heads and crack down, nothing will change.

I just can't worry about what people might think when I speak out. I'm not the President, nor am I a member of the Cabinet or Congress--I speak for myself, not "The West," whatever that means in this increasingly diverse society.

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Response to MADem (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:03 PM

9. Fine, guarantee the rights...

But that can't be done through American coercion from outside and it was never going to happen by keeping either Mubarak or the Shah in power with American force.

Nothing has ended...and no purpose is served by declaring Egypt a dead loss-especially since such rhetoric always ends up being the first step in pushing for "regime change"(such as the change that brought the perpetually-failing and likely-doomed-to-go-on-failing-for-quite-a-while longer "pro-Western 'democratic' government" in Iraq.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:26 PM

11. Who's suggesting that this is "America's job?"

And who's suggesting that Mubarak should be kept in power?

And who's suggesting "regime change" as in "violent overthrow" or anything of that nature?

It should be a worldwide finger wag, IMO. A loud, long, talked-about and sustained tut-tut. People aren't stupid, least of all Egyptians, who are some of the smartest folks on the planet--they'd get the drift.

It's just not "OK" to fuck over half the population in the name of so-called "democracy" and pretend it is the will of the people when it is, in fact, disenfranchisement, coercion, bullying and shaming--all in the name of the predominant religion. Funny how we in the USA are lightning quick to excoriate the fundy nuts here, but can manage to pretend it's "cultural" when we see some gay kid getting kicked to shit or a woman getting beaten with a switch for showing an ankle "over there."

And it's not an "either-or" construct, either.

I'm going to take a huge guess and figure you're not a member of a minority. People who have experience as "others"--owing to ethnicity, gender, orientation, what-have-you-- grasp this issue better than those who have always held a place of privilege in society.

What's happening in Egypt is NOT good. It is a giant step back, over a hundred years, culturally. And it's fucking over more than half the population, the half that has no power and damn little voice in the society. That will never be acceptable to me. If you don't believe me, ask some of the "lucky" women or gays who escaped Iran following Khomeini's rise to power. Ask them what they expected from the revolution, and what they got, and why they left. You'll get an earful.

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Response to MADem (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:34 PM

14. We need to stand with "the Other"-but not to sound arrogant while doing so.

We also need to be conscientious of the ways that the kind of "finger-wagging" you speak of, on many occasions in the past, has been a way for "the West" to push an imperial agenda and to justify intervening in non-Western countries.

Finger-wag, yes...but not with an attitude of superiority OR from the notion that "the West" is entitled to be sanctimonious towards the rest of the world, especially since MOST of what has been taken to be more liberal in "the West" has only come very recently, and had to be forced on the leadership of "the West" from below.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:51 PM

16. It shouldn't be just "The West." It should be every SOB in the world

who values respect for humanity at the individual level.

What is happening over there is Not Good. It's not about "The West"--it's about individual human rights.

And saying so isn't having "an attitude of superiority." Or being "arrogant." It's having an attitude of giving a crap about one's fellow humans and not putting up with the REAL arrogance--the arrogance of tyranny of a powerful, intimidating minority who feels free to bully women and other oppressed individuals because they have the clout, and those "others" just don't.

I'm not worried about how I "sound." I'm too busy worrying about the poor people under that oppressive boot to be concerned about what others might think of me. If I keep my mouth shut out of fear that someone will play that bullshit "West" card, then that means I'm cowed, and a coward. I AM "entitled" to speak out if I see a situation that sucks--just as anyone else with a conscience is.

And this IS a situation that sucks--totally.

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