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Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:59 AM

Court strikes pot blood test

Source: Detroit News

December 24, 2012 at 1:00 am
Court strikes pot blood test
It rules state didn't prove test accurate
By Mike Martindale
The Detroit News


Mason A Mason district judge has ruled blood tests on a motorist to determine marijuana presence cannot be used in a case because the head of the Michigan State Police crime laboratory's toxicology unit couldn't convince the judge that testing procedures were "scientifically sound."

State police crime labs analyze blood and urine samples for blood and alcohol, often in tests of Michigan's driving-under-the-influence laws.

-snip-

Defense attorney Michael Nichols, who represents the motorist, said the Ingham County case could affect prosecutions statewide of drivers suspected of operating under the influence of marijuana.

"We believe this (ruling) is earth-shattering and hope it will lead to striking down any case in which a driver's suspected intoxication by marijuana is at issue," Nichols said.



Read more: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121224/METRO/212240337#ixzz2Fz9oyrFm

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply Court strikes pot blood test (Original post)
Bozita Dec 2012 OP
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #1
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #2
socialindependocrat Dec 2012 #4
Ed Suspicious Dec 2012 #5
socialindependocrat Dec 2012 #7
Ed Suspicious Dec 2012 #8
socialindependocrat Dec 2012 #10
madokie Dec 2012 #18
socialindependocrat Dec 2012 #17
byeya Dec 2012 #19
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #9
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #13
1monster Dec 2012 #15
Th1onein Dec 2012 #20
byeya Dec 2012 #3
socialindependocrat Dec 2012 #6
byeya Dec 2012 #11
socialindependocrat Dec 2012 #12
Red1 Dec 2012 #14
Uncle Joe Dec 2012 #16

Response to Bozita (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:42 PM

1. Very intereresting. The science behind marijuana DUIs is not very sound.

My position is that if we are concerned about impaired driving, we should test for actual impairment, not some arbitrary level of a chemical, and arbitrary is what best describes the science on pot impairment.

Can you walkt heel to toe in a straight line?

Can you recite the alphabet backwards?

Can you close your eyes and touch your index finger to your nose?

You know the drill.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:54 PM

2. Agree 1000 times. Impairment tests are more reliable in every case.

I would test off the charts because of hemp oil treatment, but I am rarely if ever impaired.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:58 PM

4. I've always wondered about reciting the alphabet backwards - I have a very hard time

Is that something that other people can do

'cause I think I just found that I have an inability

I can say Z, X, Y and then I would have to go back to PQRSTUV to get to W
See I didn't even do Z, X, Y right!

They would say I flunked and I'm as straight as an arrow.

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Response to socialindependocrat (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:03 PM

5. I can't do it either. If I were a cop and some fool was able to do it cleanly, I'd bust him

simply because he must have intended to drive drunk if he took the time to learn that crap!

j/k about the busting part.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:09 PM

7. I may see a NH cop this afternoon - I'll pose the question to him and let you know n/t

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Response to socialindependocrat (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:16 PM

8. Hopefully sober. n/t ;)

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:29 PM

10. I'm safe - He's my cousin's husband

Funny - When I belonged to a pistol range the police would come down for different competitions
but they stuck to themselves - I was disapointed that we didn't work up any relationships.

My cousin's husband is a very nice person. He's very easy to talk to
and has no attitude - just very, very nice!

I wish things were like back in "It's a Beautiful Life" where you knew everybody and
the police would bring you to your father if they caught you doing something wrong.

Now, it's just - get caught - go to jail - pay fine (not that, that's ever happened to me!)

I used to vacation in an un-incorporated town and you could drink and have bon fires
on the beach at night. then, we incorporated to get state funds and they brought in a
bunch of rent-a-cops and it was like all they wanted to do was fill their quota of arrests.
They even arrested people fr drunken walking and if you were arrested for riding a bicycle
under the influence you got your license taken away - what a mess.

Later

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Response to socialindependocrat (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:30 PM

18. It used to be law and order, now its a business

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:59 PM

17. Cop from Maine says they don't use the Alphabet or other things....

They found that if the defending attourne calls the officer to the stand and the cop can't do what he asked of the defendant
then the judge willthrow out out the case.

they use the heal to toe and something else.

He said they don't use standing on one foot (cause he can't do it because of high arches)
they don't use the finger to nose

He said some states still do but not in Maine.

I thought it was very interesting information..

Later..

Have a Merry!

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Response to socialindependocrat (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:51 PM

19. Before administering any physical on-scene test you ask if the suspect has a physical impairment

 

that would keep him from performing the test.

Walk the white line on the edge of the shoulder heel to toe; stand on one foot; touch index finger to nose; recite alphabet are all choices - you need two tests. Ask suspect to take a field breath test(this is not for court but to establish reasonable cause).
Discontinue any test of the suspect is in danger of injuring himself.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:22 PM

9. Impariment tests are stupid all the way round.

Cannabis metabolites can be found up to 30 days after use, so that is not a good way to test for impairment.
Alcohol tests can vary wildly depending on time since last drink.
And all breathalysers used have to have certification that they are accurate..which they are not, in many cases,
a fact that a good defense attorney knows well.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:38 PM

13. No, you're talking about "legal limit" tests, not impairment tests.

I think we're in agreement, though: Test for actual impairment, not the presence of some chemical.

You know, the standard roadside stuff. And it should be recorded by the cop car camera. Then let the jury decide.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:54 PM

15. Some of us cannot do those things stone sober...

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:00 AM

20. I can't cite the alphabet backwards when I'm stone cold sober.

I've never understood why this was part of any test.

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Response to Bozita (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:56 PM

3. I hope it sets a precedent.; however, I don't think fingerprinting has proven to be beyond doubt but

 

the courts have "taken cognizance" of it because it works often enough. Lie detectors have not met this judicial standard though DNA evidence has, although that too has been proven to fail in a couple of cases.

Anyway, good for the judge.

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Response to byeya (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:07 PM

6. I'm sure the're asking for some "reasonable accuracy" here....

They accept blood and breathalizer tests.

All they need to de is show some reasonable reproducabiity.

If they test people at different levels and test motor skills to check for impairmeant

and then check for next day levels and rate of metabolism and lingering impairment.

Last week there was an article about someone who was hit by another driver and
the victim was found to have a level of MJ in his system (may be the case this refers to)

The point is, most people who smoke one day don't wake up the next day with
any residual effects - nor hangover.


they need to show a correlation between impairment and blood level - if they want to use it as an indicator.

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Response to socialindependocrat (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:30 PM

11. I think we are in agreement(hope so) and that this judge did not find reasonable accuracy.

 

THC lingers in the system much longer than alcohol(say) and does not correlate with impairment.

Used to be even with DUI, the officer not only had to have the breath-o-lyzer test but also had to show some failure on a field sobriety test.

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Response to byeya (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:36 PM

12. We're good - have a merry! n/t

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Response to Bozita (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:45 PM

14. In the Aerospace Biz...

A urinalysis is required for all employment. Since I am a contractor and sometimes have as many a 2 or 3 different jobs in a 3 year span, it makes it....inconvenient..And I've had occasion to watch the manager power drinkers... and those with county jail ankle harnesses from 2 or 3 DUIs, sit and design aircraft parts and lead other engineers...

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Response to Bozita (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:55 PM

16. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Bozita.

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