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Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:08 AM

Obama to GOP: 'Take me out of it'

Source: NBC

Saying that Republican opponents should "take me out of it," President Barack Obama appealed Wednesday for compromise on the "fiscal cliff," urging GOP House members to put aside personal and political concerns after a week marked by the Newtown shooting tragedy and continued bickering over the nation's deficit woes.

Acknowledging that his most vehement foes live in conservative districts with little political "incentive" to back the Democratic president, Obama blamed Republican rank-and-file for personalizing the politics of possible deficit reduction plans.

"I don’t know how much of that just has to do with it is very hard for them to say yes to me," Obama said at a press conference to announce a new task force to prevent gun violence. "But, you know, at some point, you know, they’ve got to take me out of it and think about their voters and think about what’s best for the country."


Read more: http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/19/16021119-obama-to-gop-take-me-out-of-it?lite&google_editors_picks=true



I know some folks on the left have once again begun blaming President Obama for failing to break Republicans into accepting a deal with claims that he "caved." The problem is that these claims give Republicans a way too much credit.

The Republicans claim to be soo concerned about the deficit. Yet, they are breaking off talks, voting on a Plan B, that RAISES TAXES on the poor, raises tax on millionaires, and fails to make the longterm cuts of the size they want while also failing to avoid the most harmful impacts of sequestration. In other words, why would even Republicans want to vote for it?

The truth is even Republicans don't want to vote for it, because Plan B sucks. It raises taxes on the rich, it does not cut as much as the deals that Obama and Boehner were discussing AND it does not prevent any of the most harmful spending cuts in the near term or on defense. The biggest motivating factor that prevents Republicans from voting for it is the fear that Democrats might actually support it.

Plan B is designed to be repugnant. The only purpose of Plan B is for Republicans to grandstand and take attention off the fact that they are mean, petty, and a little crazy. Plan B is only designed to avoid shining a spotlight on the fact that Boehner has absolutely no authority to negotiate a deal!

Paul Krugman notes this early on. The problem with trying to negotiate with the Republicans is that they really do not know what they want in terms of a serious policy proposal. Cut taxes, increase defense spending, cut benefits to the middle class, and expect the economy to magically improve? The math is not their friend and Republicans are really pissed off at reality right now. This is why they are even having trouble trying to get their caucas to support a Plan B that is designed to fail.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:16 AM

1. Republicans don't *do* serious policy proposals

They know exactly what they want, lower taxes on the wealthy and more spending on military, cops and prisons and cut everything that provides any help at all to anyone that's not filthy rich.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:24 AM

2. Obama is moving away from negotiations because he knows that the rank and file of the Democratic

Party will not support him and he cannot get the votes if he touches Social Security SSI or Medicare or Medicaid or agrees to increase taxes on the working poor.

We are going off the cliff. Maybe that way the waste will be cut out of the military, and that is where the waste is.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:26 AM

3. And that's a very good thing.

The poor and elderly cannot take any more "sharing the burden".

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:39 AM

4. Sorry, Its Republicans Fault - Plan B Follows Tuesday GOP Meeting

Boehner went into a Tuesday meeting with his caucas and before the meeting he told reporters that he expected a very tough meeting. Well, after that meeting, Boehner starts pursuing the Plan B stunt in an effort to blow up discussions and blame Democrats. Here's the story discussing Boehner's comments prior to the Tuesday meeting:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/blogs/influencealley/2012/12/john-boehner-begins-make-or-break-fiscal-cliff-meetings-with-house-gop-18

We really, really need to ignore the media's efforts to prop up Republicans and Boehner and ignore the false equivalency that masquarades for journalism. The ugly truth is that the current Republican party representatives are extreme and out of control and Boehner can't get them to agree to any plausible deal with President Obama.

Boehner is a weak speaker and his caucas is crazy. To suggest that this is some sort of strategic maneuver to reach some desired deal is a fantasy. The ugly truth is that Republicans do not have a legitimate policy goal that makes mathmatical sense and has a chance of passing Congress. The media needs to stop giving them a free pass.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:43 AM

5. Obama roped the dopes again (and that included the naysayer dems too)

 

who instantly go into a mad tither over something that didn't happen

just like the downers after debate one called it all wrong.

Once again Rev. Al Sharpton was 100% correct.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:59 AM

6. You're suggesting that it's a bluff

You're doing so, however, without any factual evidence to support that suggestion. The very fact that the President is putting social security on the table is very troubling. Considering the amount of money that would be lost by Seniors... from a program they've been paying into their whole lives...

Also, consider what the Republicans will demand if that is not enough. Will the President offer more concessions? The administration had some tough talk earlier about being ready and willing to go over the cliff, but it seems like they're trying really hard right now to negotiate a deal - even if it means cutting social security. To me, that is completely unacceptable - the program is fine and will be fine for many years to come if we just leave it the hell alone.

Call me a naysayer dem if you want to, but this whole thing stinks. I like President Obama a great deal, I have since I first read The Audacity of Hope, it was what inspired me to vote for him and to help get out the vote for him in 2008. This though, is still unacceptable. What was Al Sharpton correct about? I must have missed something...

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Response to davidthegnome (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:21 AM

8. Rev. Al Sharpton has been correct about everything, and anything

 

as his show is not easy to find a transcript and as I watched him but cannot find a quote,
not going to put something up without a link to it.
When I find a link I shall then post it.

But regardless, you need to keep the eye firmly at the end of the whole big picture, not day to day on one wedge issue

the people railing against the President say 2014 they will exact revenge(though when one logically looks at what they are saying, that will just lead to more republicans and more bad scenerios so it makes little common LOGICAL sense.)

But the more sane republicans(if there are any left) see what Boner & the gang on the other side are NOT doing(getting anything accomplished) and what they are doing to the country(screwing it), the more sane republicans become converts and vote for those against their own people

You divide the other side.

President Obama's core voter did not vote for him on this issue. I am sorry to burst your bubble if you thought that was the case.

Demographics alone show that, and the age groups show that.

President Obama also never promised those not at or near retirement age that nothing will change down the road, so even if enacted, this would not have happened for ten years
and that also doesn't say what else shall happen for the better of the country the next ten years to offset any increase/decrease.

Those under retirement age for debate purposes-let's say the economy again becomes robust, jobs soar, wages soar, well, then people who are not retirement age are again making MORe
money which means they have more money going into SS which means more money at the later time given back to them.
Again, just railing at President Obama for one single line in a bill that is not even a bill to begin with is silly

One would at least need to wait til the ten years have passed and something new started, to see what the outcome is.

Same like those who hated the health plan, overlooked all the good in it, and the benefits most even didn't see.
Let alone that with that 10% gain forward, instead of 100% of nothing, is leading for all intents and purposes, and unseen, and now unstoppable to the rightwing, to the very thing
that the whiners couldn't get then, but are going to get in the future- the single system they wanted, or a government run system

And in France,the country with the single best healthcare system worldwide, better even than Canada or the UK, they have no social security at all. It comes as part of the package of things people just naturally get there, and that is paid when one is well, but no one loses anything if one gets ill, and there are no bills at all.

(Same covert that (I can hear the hisses already) the 48 ounce soda ban on some sellers of soda in NYC directly is leading to wellness, and less hospital bills, thanks to the genius of Mayor Bloomberg(again, I hear the hisses) and while some laugh at the absordity of the ban,
it is working and NYC itself is becoming healthier and healthier(along with the concrete oasis in Times Square that was riddled with laughter when it happened. I just walked on it last Saturday again, it truly is something to behold, in the heart of the biggest traffic congested area, you have a beach like atmosphere filled with laughter and fun).

I am sure none of the above will sink in though

why spoil an opportunity to put President Obama down by looking at one little sentence in something that was only a ploy(or even if it is not) without looking at the big picture at the end of the rainbow that is indeed coming closer and closer to reality
(though voting against the democrats in 2014 could indeed fill that self-fullfilled prophecy and take us back temporarily to the dark ages, but not for long as Hillary45 is a done deal, the repubs reaction to her flu that any age group could have shows how they will campaign against her, and it won't work because no REAL fan of hers listens to the other side, same aswith President Obama.)

and yes this might be hard to understand as I lumped alot of topics together in one response again, but everything is connected

said event, follow the arrow, those with Obama see the prize at the end of the game
those not with him, get derailed and only see that which is right now

It's a long game. We are only at the end of term1, term 2 has not even started yet, so its soon to be halftime...we got a whole nother half to come.

And stop expecting 100%...which only gets you 100% of nothing, the 10% of something adds up to a helleva lot more


BTW-instead of railing with the health bill against pharma and big med, why not rail a little at doctors themselves- set federal prices for all doctors to receive and if they don't like it, up theirs, there are plenty more doctors who would welcome the chance. It works perfectly in France, doctors gauge patients.
Now, if health care costs start coming down after 2014 rapidly, that money is direct dollar to dollar savings and if wellness prevails, that too leads to mega less bills for the average person
saving a helleva lot more than even if there was a little decrease in what they perceive in the future they should be getting from SS.(and the rate has never been a total constant, it has always been a variable anyhow).

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:13 AM

9. not plenty more doctors

Some fields, like neurosurgery, are limited by the number of residency slots. They can charge whatever they want because there are so few of them. I've even heard them complain that Sanjay Gupta isn't working in the OR. What would insurance companies do to control prices? They don't have access to the neurosurgery residency accrediting folks who determine the number of residency slots. There is a possibility in primary care and pediatrics as a lot of what those folks used to do can be done by nurses and physicians' assistants.

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Response to greymattermom (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:25 AM

11. who wants insurance companies- let the FEDERAL government set the prices like in France

 

and America is not the only place for Doctors.

Lots of well qualified hungry compassionate doctors worldwide who care about being doctors, not gauging patients.

the myth is that the US is the best in healthcare.
No, many countries are alot better

And it is like gas stations in a crisis gauging customers.

Put doctors on Salaries, or give them a price range.

They are the 1% anyhow, the ones that charge the most.

BTW-I would make school free so please don't use the analogy of how expensive it is.

And get rid of insurance companies altogether and let the federal government run it.

just adjust everything and change everything

The French are healthier, happier and have a much better system.
(except those that still smoke in defiance of course).

But why do the French have so many smart cars?
Because the French are not morbidly obese like Americans driving SUV's are.
Americans can't fit in smart cars, they need the largest of cars to get into.
That says it all.
(and I speak of myself here...before I went on my wellness plan last year, I couldn't get into a Honda or Toyota and needed a large vehicle. Now I can fit into a smart car.
And btw, my doctor is not American born. But I never noticed that except to make a point here.

Teachers should make as much as the top doctors. After all, without a grade school teacher, the doctor never would have gotten into medical school. If anything, teachers are as important as are sanitation people who without them, there would be mass disease and deaths.

but anyhow, this is really not the topic of this thread, but wellness=less major surgery needed anyhow.
As they say wellness is like an apple. And a day of wellness keeps the doctor away
and that means more money in every well person's hands in the future.

(again this whole SS thing is ten years down the road and does not effect current retireees, or those retiring the next ten years anyhow).

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:50 AM

13. Well,

 

I'll reply to you. I don't think you know me personally but I wholeheartedly disagree with your characterizations of President Obama's core voters. President Obama's most loyal core group has been African Americans and I'm one of them. I should know why my family and friends supported him. What is more I'm from the South and grew up in the South. Even though President Obama came from an interracial family with roots from Kenya and whites from Kansas, My family also goes back to the Civil War and the History of this Country. So I know why most African Americans voted for him.

I do not know why Boehner is being seperated from the rest of his extreme caucas? I do not know why President Obama thinks that he can deal with what I consider a snake? I would have thought he should have learned the first time. And Hispanics are finding out what African Americans have found out about the current Republican Party a long time ago. I know President Obama studies President Lincoln's Presidency a lot and was raised by the family of his mother, but he needs a better concept of racism in this country and the historical background of it. It is the same with the gun issue and other issues such as immigration or even marijuana. Even though African Americans stuck with him, they are not very happy with his denial; of racial issues in this country. He is too timid to take it on for fear of upsetting some whites.

He needs to understand Boehner and stop trying to accommodate or appease him. The best way to do that is look where Boehner came from and where he has been and where he wants to go. Boehner is not in Congress without a purpose. His purpose is to destroy Social Security and other Safetynet Programs. His family is of German/Irish decent. When Boehner entered Congress, he was one of the original Gang of Seven on the Contract of America with Newt Gingrich before Obama even got into Congress.

I put an emphasis on one of the original gang of seven. And it was Boehner with others, who initiated a coo on Gingrich, when he violated the Contract and had personal problems. Boehner is as extreme as you can get and a conniving snake. He is dealing with President Obama the same way he dealt with Clinton. He is trying to manuever around Obama, in order to weaken his Presidency on the National stage and for the rest of his term. Boehner is one of the leaders and does not compromise with anyone. His district is over 90 percent white, and he grew up in that district from childhood. The North had their copperheads too. Boehner made a promise early own in his career to destroy Social Security and Medicare. He aligned himself with Wall Street Lobbyists, which religious conservatives have problems with. He said in the past that he would love to move the age limit up on Social Security to 70 years old. And the media has coyly left out Boehner's original historical background to the American Public. If Obama thinks that he is dealing with someone held hostage by his caucas, then he don't know Boehner. Boehner is one of the chief instigators, not one of the troops or followers. He can smile in your face and shake Obama's hand all he wants behind close doors, but the man is a snake! The people being called his Left, are the strength of his party and they are not extreme at all. He don't know why that hostile Press keep asking loaded questions to him either. He didn't understand why Hillary Clinton claimed some people would never vote for him either. People gave him a second chance because they thought he learned his lesson and stop being so naive. Hispanics expect that too.

One other note, I'm laughing when the Washington Post\Wall Street Journal comes out with a Poll showing people want both men to compromise. And Obama picked right up on that. The Washington Post\Wall Street Journal is a joke and has an agenda. He best listen to the Polls calling his office, because they are not the extreme left but the people that put you on office. They are definately telling him what they want and he needs to ignore the pundits in the media and their phony Polls.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:01 AM

7. what could the GOP possibly have against Obama that they wouldn't work with him on anything? gee...

I wonder.

Wouldn't be that they're POS RACIST PIGS?

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:19 AM

10. You put yourself in it to begin with! Deal with it.

Life ain't easy. Make the morally correct choice and leave Social Security alone, tax the wealthy, and cut the defense budget. That's all. If they won't agree, then take them off the cliff and Congress brings up the issues piece by piece instead of as a giant clusterfuck package.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:32 AM

12. "Republicans are really pissed off at reality"

Hasn't that always been the GOP's problem? It's the basis of their "if you can't win under the rules, change the rules" philosophy, or the "win at all costs" we saw during both of Bush's selections.

As long as we stay focused on reality, and support our congressmen and president to do the same, we'll do o.k. The moment we enter the GOP's Alice in Wonderland world we're screwed.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 06:47 AM

14. He's not a bad person. He just wants to get a deal done.

 

Both sides are putting enormous pressure on him, complaining this minuscule percentage is too low on this and this minuscule percentage is too high on this.

We're going to get stuff we don't like and the other side is too.

He is sick of it and wants to put it behind him and rightfully so. It's just not a fight he wants.

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