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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:04 PM

Oklahoma Will Consider Law Allowing Teachers To Bring Guns To School

Source: Think Progress

Teachers and principals may soon be packing heat in the classroom, if Oklahoma State Rep. Mark McCullough (R) has his way. According to a report by The Oklahoman, the lawmaker “pledged to introduce legislation in the upcoming session to allow principals and teachers who go through training to be able to carry firearms on school property.” McCullough made the now-familiar argument that people intent on mass shootings are unlikely to follow the law:

Snip:


Several other state legislatures are considering similar legislation, cheered on by a number of Republicans and pro-gun activists

Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/18/1350591/oklahoma-will-consider-law-allowing-teachers-to-bring-guns-to-school/



It was inevitable..........

56 replies, 5316 views

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Arrow 56 replies Author Time Post
Reply Oklahoma Will Consider Law Allowing Teachers To Bring Guns To School (Original post)
yesphan Dec 2012 OP
redstatebluegirl Dec 2012 #1
yesphan Dec 2012 #8
redstatebluegirl Dec 2012 #32
Speck Tater Dec 2012 #2
Walk away Dec 2012 #26
ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #30
Turbineguy Dec 2012 #3
Drahthaardogs Dec 2012 #31
Turbineguy Dec 2012 #34
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #40
neverforget Dec 2012 #41
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #46
neverforget Dec 2012 #47
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #48
neverforget Dec 2012 #49
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #50
neverforget Dec 2012 #51
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #52
bongbong Dec 2012 #4
jpak Dec 2012 #5
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #9
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #29
yellowcanine Dec 2012 #6
jimlup Dec 2012 #7
mike dub Dec 2012 #10
yellowcanine Dec 2012 #11
backtoblue Dec 2012 #25
Toronto Dec 2012 #54
YvonneCa Dec 2012 #38
AnneD Dec 2012 #12
ancianita Dec 2012 #13
AllyCat Dec 2012 #14
Joey Liberal Dec 2012 #15
eringer Dec 2012 #16
BrightKnight Dec 2012 #24
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #17
kelliekat44 Dec 2012 #18
SoapBox Dec 2012 #19
obama2terms Dec 2012 #20
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #21
BrightKnight Dec 2012 #22
dmosh42 Dec 2012 #23
ancianita Dec 2012 #27
Walk away Dec 2012 #28
yesphan Dec 2012 #33
Walk away Dec 2012 #39
Bigmack Dec 2012 #35
SemperEadem Dec 2012 #36
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #44
SemperEadem Dec 2012 #55
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #56
Coyote_Tan Dec 2012 #37
Owl Dec 2012 #42
underpants Dec 2012 #43
YOHABLO Dec 2012 #45
fascisthunter Dec 2012 #53

Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:07 PM

1. We should not be surprised, this is Oklahoma

where you can carry a gun almost anywhere. I expected it as soon as this happened, it opened the door for the people who want us all armed and dangerous.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:25 PM

8. Saw my first "open carry"

in a restaurant the other day. Felt uncomfortable seeing it.

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Response to yesphan (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:24 PM

32. I saw one in a restaurant and left

on my way out I told the manager why I was leaving. There were kids all over the place!

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:08 PM

2. This is so that the shooters will know who to kill first. nt

 

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Response to Speck Tater (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:37 PM

26. I never thought of that. nt

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Response to Speck Tater (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:49 PM

30. That is one of the downsides to open carry.

But in school settings, the staff would be targeted first since they are the biggest threat to the attacker whether the staff is armed or not.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:08 PM

3. Hmmm.....

I have to go to the end of the driveway to check the mailbox. Should I wear a side arm?

This is actually a great (republican) idea. It will keep teachers at home, increase home schooling and help kids keep from learing bad stuff (like science). You know, in a free country, you just can't have too many ignorant, scared, armed and dangerous people.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:26 PM

31. Colorado has always been open carry.

You hardly ever see anyone do it. It also did not stop Columbine now did it?

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:12 PM

34. It's not whether or not you are allowed to by law

it is whether or not you should. Would we all be better off living in a combat zone?

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:15 PM

40. Of course it didn't.

 

"The Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA, codified at 18 U.S.C. § 922(q)) is a federal United States law that prohibits any individual from knowingly possessing a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone."

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #40)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:22 PM

41. Do you support or oppose that law?

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Response to neverforget (Reply #41)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:31 PM

46. I think properly trained

 

teachers should be allowed to carry on school grounds if they choose to.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #46)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:36 PM

47. Should they carry in the open so the kids should see it? Or should they keep it locked

up? And what is "properly trained"?

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Response to neverforget (Reply #47)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:44 PM

48. I don't believe there is any advantage to open carry

 

in school. As long as would-be shooters know there is a chance of armed resistance, that is a deterrent.

Concealed would be better so would-be shooters don't know exactly who carries.

Personally, I would keep it in a locked drawer.

Would having a gun save the initial victims. Probably not. The first targets would not have time to react. But is likely would reduce the number.

Most shootings, including Sandy Hook, ended when the shooter faced or imminently faced armed resistance. Some mass shooting lasted over an hour. Columbine lasted 50 minutes.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #48)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:48 PM

49. What kind of training would you give them?

As for Columbine, I believe the police waited for SWAT to show up before entering the school but I'm not sure. I know that the shooting here at the mall (Clackamas Town Center last Tuesday) the police went right in and were there within minutes of the initial call.

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Response to neverforget (Reply #49)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:04 PM

50. I'm not really familiar with the training courses

 

I would think for those carrying in a school, an initial ~4hr class that includes shooting fundamentals and gun familiarization (assembly/disassembly/cleaning) with a shooting session.

Followed by another 2 hours of scenario-driven shooting exercise mixing simulated fire and real fire on the range. And repeat that every 6 months.

I'm a big 2A advocate but I think things need to be tightened up. I just got my CCP in CO and I didn't require any training since I had left the military within 3 years. That actually concerned me. If I hadn't gone through 9mm/M4 (GUA-5) training a year or so prior for deployment training, it would have been over 20 years since I had any training. In that time, I had fired my shotgun twice. That was it.

And I don't need training for 5 years. I am very cautious and respectful of guns so I will make sure I am completely comfortable and competent with a handgun before I will carry in public.

I was also surprised when I went in last Friday morning to buy a handgun (I'd been planning it for a while and it had nothing to do with the shooting) and was surprised to find out that I could have walked out a half hour later if they didn't need to special order what I wanted. I thought there was more of a waiting period.

Frankly, I would be more comfortable with training being required, even for military, unless they have had actual training within the past two years. And I support a week waiting period to buy a gun.

I could even live with a license being required to open carry as long as it is not cost-prohibitive.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #50)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:18 PM

51. Thank you for responding.

I don't think teachers should be armed because putting a gun inside a school with kids/teenagers is a dangerous mix. The reason being kids/teenagers are mentally immature and with teenagers, well, they can be pretty emotional. My daughters 3rd grade teacher is a small lady and when thinking about someone like that in high school (I had them) could easily be overpowered by a teenage boy. Besides that, I don't think putting a gun inside a school is a good idea. There are just too many variables.

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Response to neverforget (Reply #51)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:27 PM

52. However, the problem we are combating

 

is a gun already being in the school. Even having several teachers with them locked in a drawer could have saved several lives. No all, of course, but every single one matters and saving one would be worth it.

Obviously, in the case of a small lady who was worried about being overpowered, carrying it on her person would not be smart. But her screams (if attacked) could bring another teacher.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:09 PM

4. repigs' "thought" processes

 

"We have a rampant disease here. I've got an idea! How about if we treat the disease by bringing in more germs and infecting everybody! USA! USA! USA!"

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:11 PM

5. How soon and how many kids will be shot with a teacher's gun?

Dropped.

Left unintended.

Stolen.

The GOP/NRA = gun insanity.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:42 PM

9. Yup, this is just another setup for the fall.

 

We'll have armed teachers, and then some teacher will leave it unattended, or will drop it, or some student will overpower the teacher and take it away from them, and someone is going to get shot and killed.

We don't pay these people enough for the responsibility of teaching. You want them to be security guards, too?

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Response to jpak (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:48 PM

29. My daughter had a very bad experience

with a teacher and a gun. Wonderful teacher, who unfortunately was very depressed after his divorce and losing custody of his kids. All the kids loved him and my daughter always talked about how great Mr. P her Science teacher was. Well, maybe not exactly.

Mr. P one night went back to his Science Lab and shot himself in the head. Fortunately, he was discovered the next morning by the custodian and not the KIDS. Horrible. WHY did he choose to commit suicide in the school where a child could find him? Maybe because it was the placed he loved so much?

The kids were received counseling for just the trauma of this. My own daughter did. She cried for days and refused to go in that Lab.

This not a made up "story". I guess I have had too many experiences in my 64 years. No, I don't want teachers, or me, with guns in schools.


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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:17 PM

6. Have they considered the possibility of a kid stealing a gun from a teacher and using it?

The likelihood of this happening is probably greater than the probability of a killer walking into a school. Then there is the question of whether teachers can be trained well enough and stay trained well enough to be effective in a high adrenaline school shooter situation.

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:24 PM

7. They are incapable of such analysis

They really are irrational. We need to realize that aspect of their pathology when dealing with them.

These folks are flat out NUTS

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:44 PM

10. training probably wouldn't help...

Most of these mass-shooting cowards are wearing vests, lately. A teacher suddenly on "defense" against a shooter who's already spraying bullets down the hall (assault-weapon style) would have almost no chance of getting a kill-shot on the mass-shooter. Even armed and returning fire, a teacher would likely end up dead, just like the brave principal and teachers at Newtown.

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Response to mike dub (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:48 PM

11. I agree. Even well trained active police officers would be challenged in that situation.

People think just because it is easy to pull the trigger that it is easy to shoot somebody with a gun in a high adrenaline situation. Most civilians would not even get the gun out of the holster before being gunned down.

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:32 PM

25. comment from a news story...

"So many of you people who advocate "more guns" have no understanding what it takes to take a life. None at all. None at all. Assault weapons are the problem. Making them mainstream is the problem. But advocating more guns. 300 million legally purchased weapons in this country, lol. More concealed carry laws? What is wrong with you? Most people, are not killers. Look at statistics, a person who pulls a gun is more likely to be shot. It comes down to one thing, they teach us in the Marines, "never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot". How many people have actually killed? How many people with an assault weapon pointed at them, with no training, will have what it takes to take down a gunman? More guns, only increases the odds of somebody legally owning and carrying a concealed weapon, getting past any type of security, and being able to open fire. Not only that, if you are not willing to take a life, if you hesitate for a second, then that gun you are carrying for self defense, means nothing, because that person is willing and ready to kill in a heartbeat. Are you? and if you say yes, you have mental issues. Because I had to become that in Iraq, it is painful, and not easy, and is why we have such a hard time adjusting back to the civilian world. To willfully take a life, means you have to become a monster. All of you speak a big game about this, but none of you know what it takes, to take a life"

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Response to backtoblue (Reply #25)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:39 PM

54. I feel for you...

 

...and all of the other souls who have had to look into the eyes of a stranger and pull the trigger in the name of their country. I feel for all the people who have been carrying out a political agenda that bears little resemblance to the noble ideals that they signed up to defend.

I hope that you can one day find peace...

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:42 PM

38. Of course not. And this is WAY more likely than...

...what happened on Friday.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:51 PM

12. Most teachers...

don't want the legal liability of a gun accidentally going off in class and possibility hurting a child.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:53 PM

13. Oklahomastan. Where nervous women and children are loving to survive.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:00 PM

14. So more little kids can die. Great.

More guns to combat a problem of too many guns. Makes just perfect sense. Little kids won't EVER get a hold of those guns, will they? Teachers are so carefully trained in marks that they can shoot an apple off someone's head, right? They are so cool under pressure they can shoot a terrorist coming in the door and never miss a beat of "My Pet Goat" to the unsuspecting children.

Jeez.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:00 PM

15. I live in Oklahoma

It's a backwards state. It's getting worse. But there are a lot of good Democrats here.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:05 PM

16. Oklahoma -- You mean that the teachers there are not already "packing"?

Are you implying that if the day care teachers in this building were packing, this would have never happened?

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Response to eringer (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:26 PM

24. Rick Perry sent most of the teachers in Texas packing

Class sizes are through the roof and now they want teacher to buy guns and work as unpaid security guards?

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:11 PM

17. Oh for fuck's sake...

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:21 PM

18. These bigoted, funddie folks are already unbalanced.

Allowing them to pack heat in school is whacko squared!!! Teachers shooting kids they don't like, students shooting teachers they don't like. Couple all these guns in states with "stand-your-ground' laws and we have a nation on the brink of self-destruction.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:28 PM

19. sick.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:40 PM

20. The last thing schools need

For real! That's like saying the solution to a crack addicts addiction is more crack so stupid....

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:45 PM

21. Florida has a bill proposing this also

SYG Florida. Talk about FAST. This is the Republicans answer. MORE GUNS. Can you imagine the problems there would be a city like MIAMI with hundreds of school staff carrying around guns????

I wonder what Joe Scarborough has to say about this.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:12 PM

22. I can't see many first grade teachers choosing to carry a gun in the classroom. - n/t

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:14 PM

23. Will they get "combat pay" as an extra for being armed?

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:38 PM

27. Instead of dumping the gun responsibility on their warhorse teachers, they could take a look at

other states, other cities. For example, Chicago. There are over 600 elementary schools there and probably around 100 high schools there. In the elementary schools, there are security guards at the school entrances. In the high schools there are, in addition to security guards, metal detectors and scanners of book bags. In any case, it's not all dumped on teachers at either level, whose job is instruction and promoting a learning climate, not the fear-ridden climate of a gun culture.

Also, at the high school level, all adults and students wear visible ID's at all times, since the mobility of high schoolers in and out of buildings is much greater. It seems like a much easier, more obvious solution for all these states trying to force teachers to carry guns. It really seems as if this is a manipulative attempt by these gun-ridden states to tip the public opinion scale to discourage the functionality of schools so much that they'll just want to shut down public schools.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:44 PM

28. What I like about this idea is that we really don't need...

to have separate people in Law Enforcement and Education. Now we can just pay one person to be both. If we could just get the teachers to drive to school in shiny red trucks with hoses, we could save a fortune on that redundant Fire Department!

More Guns & 1/3 the Public Employees! A republican's wet dream!!!!!

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Response to Walk away (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:09 PM

33. Certify them as EMTs

and they can be there own first responders as well.

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Response to yesphan (Reply #33)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:49 PM

39. And give them a white belt and a stop sign on a stick and post them at crosswalks too!

Teachers are so overpaid they should be painting curbs as well!

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:25 PM

35. I've posted this before, but...

Do you imagine some kindergarden teacher... even heavily armed and trained... kindergarten teacher is gonna be able to “hold 'em and squeeze 'em” while under fire and trying to shield her kids..? Somebody who has never fired a round in combat is going to calmly fire a head shot on somebody wearing body armor? Dream on. The "Die Hard" movies are not documentaries.

Where is the teacher going to wear or store their weapon? Kids get into everything in classrooms. Any teacher will tell you about how their keys/purse/grade book was stolen. Imagine a handgun going adrift in a school. You really want teachers wearing a handgun at their waists? That’s a recipe for an accidental discharge. If the teacher’s weapon is locked away securely, how long would it take to retrieve it in an emergency?

Ever hear of fratricide... blue on blue... friendly fire...? It happens with the best of trained troops. Think Pat Tilman. Now think 3 or 4 untrained shooters spraying rounds around a school. I've been in firefights, and I can tell you it's not like the movies.

With teachers - or anybody else - you're talking about a bloodbath before the bad guy gets off a single round. How would the teacher/guard know that anybody with a weapon wasn't the bad guy? They’d shoot each other, or more probably miss and kill those they are trying to protect.

And what do think the cops are going to see when they arrive...? A teacher standing there with a weapon. Bye-bye (hero) teacher!

Teachers are trained to teach. They are not warriors. These days, I'd even be nervous having a cop armed with a handgun on campus... he could be overpowered and the weapon used on students.

I have no idea what to do to stop the school shootings, but I know arming the teachers or students is the stupidest goddam thing I can imagine.

Besides, teachers - especially elementary teachers - are surrogate parents, counselors, nurses.....are you gonna ask them to be armed guards, too.? Anybody willing to pay teachers combat pay..?

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:34 PM

36. saw this on Facebook today

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Response to SemperEadem (Reply #36)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:30 PM

44. Except that it is not true

 

On most military bases, unless you are involved in training, weapons are kept in the armory. That includes personal weapons for people who live in base housing.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #44)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:18 AM

55. and you make the point well

even there, they do not allow trained soldiers to walk about armed to the teeth, so why should teachers, who are not trained soldiers, do so?

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Response to SemperEadem (Reply #55)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 09:29 AM

56. You could argue that point either way

 

In a school, history shows there is a reasonable chance that armed protection would be needed. So the teachers with guns would effectively be on duty.

On the other hand, there is the point you made.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:40 PM

37. Saw that coming...

 

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:25 PM

42. Absolutely ridiculous.

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:25 PM

43. but what if the teachers are them Sharia type teachers?

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:30 PM

45. Gun holsters: Prada, Gucci, D&G .. a new fashion trend!

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Response to yesphan (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:27 PM

53. lol... sociopaths widening the NEED for more guns

sick, sick, sick or dumb.

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