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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:00 PM

 

"The NRA is the enabler of mass murderers" - Nadler

Source: Current (Salon)

In the wake of today's shootings, Democratic Rep. Jerrold Nadler says we need to wage "war" on the gun lobby

New York Democratic Rep. Jerrold Nadler called for a “war” on the National Rifle Association in light of the mass shooting in Connecticut today in an interview with Salon, saying the gun lobby group is the “enabler of mass murderers.”

Nadler, a rare fierce advocate of gun control on Capitol Hill, said the shooting should be a wake-up call to our “crazy attitude to guns” and the power of the gun lobby. He noted that other modern industrialized countries like the U.K., Sweden and Germany witness fewer than 50 gun homicides every year, compared to the roughly 10,000 people killed here. The difference, he said, is that they have “rational gun control regimes,” while we can barely even discuss gun control thanks to the power of the gun lobby.


Read more: http://current.com/community/93991178_the-nra-is-the-enabler-of-mass-murderers.htm

69 replies, 9074 views

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Reply "The NRA is the enabler of mass murderers" - Nadler (Original post)
michigandem58 Dec 2012 OP
morningfog Dec 2012 #1
Hoyt Dec 2012 #2
pipoman Dec 2012 #3
marble falls Dec 2012 #6
byeya Dec 2012 #7
pipoman Dec 2012 #8
lastlib Dec 2012 #29
pipoman Dec 2012 #48
gejohnston Dec 2012 #12
NICO9000 Dec 2012 #39
Kingofalldems Dec 2012 #4
marble falls Dec 2012 #5
saidsimplesimon Dec 2012 #9
BainsBane Dec 2012 #11
marble falls Dec 2012 #36
BainsBane Dec 2012 #38
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #26
marble falls Dec 2012 #35
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #51
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #53
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #50
BainsBane Dec 2012 #10
randome Dec 2012 #13
classykaren Dec 2012 #18
randome Dec 2012 #25
jeff47 Dec 2012 #19
randome Dec 2012 #24
Cha Dec 2012 #14
David__77 Dec 2012 #15
triplepoint Dec 2012 #16
krispos42 Dec 2012 #22
BainsBane Dec 2012 #31
krispos42 Dec 2012 #43
KeepItReal Dec 2012 #46
krispos42 Dec 2012 #47
BainsBane Dec 2012 #49
krispos42 Dec 2012 #55
BainsBane Dec 2012 #57
krispos42 Dec 2012 #58
godai Dec 2012 #34
triplepoint Dec 2012 #52
krispos42 Dec 2012 #56
aquart Dec 2012 #62
krispos42 Dec 2012 #65
freshwest Dec 2012 #59
Skittles Dec 2012 #17
Maineman Dec 2012 #20
krispos42 Dec 2012 #21
Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #30
ellisonz Dec 2012 #32
krispos42 Dec 2012 #45
ellisonz Dec 2012 #61
krispos42 Dec 2012 #64
pscot Dec 2012 #33
llmart Dec 2012 #42
Deep13 Dec 2012 #23
lastlib Dec 2012 #27
Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #28
UndahCovah Dec 2012 #37
OrwellwasRight Dec 2012 #40
CarmanK Dec 2012 #41
Luschnig Dec 2012 #44
KoKo Dec 2012 #54
villager Dec 2012 #60
spicegal Dec 2012 #63
fascisthunter Dec 2012 #66
olddad56 Dec 2012 #67
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #68
ellisonz Dec 2012 #69

Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:01 PM

1. Truth.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:04 PM

2. Have needed that for a long time. Let's start now.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:07 PM

3. So much is made of the 3 million member NRA

to the exclusion of the 100 million gun owners who are not members of the NRA. Then there are the gun control groups with their 30 combined contributing members...

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Response to pipoman (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:10 PM

6. Exactly right on the money. Thankyou!

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Response to pipoman (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:20 PM

7. BS. There are many who contribute to organizations that advocate gun controls. The AMA declared

 

gun violence due to the saturation of guns in the country a public health issue.

Why among all other issues from war to climate change does a bullying minority vote only to make guns of all description readily available to all from the young to the old and blind?

The NRA is a Republican adjunct and crap like your post outs you.

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Response to byeya (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:34 PM

8. Why can't anyone define "assault weapon"?

Not the attorney general, not the head of the BATFE, not even the gun control groups can define this bandied, made up name. This is a very complex issue. It isn't easy as some hereabouts would like it to be. So many haven't the foggiest clue what they are talking about on this subject. They don't know what the law is now, they don't know what the words they are using mean, and they don't know the case law which will always define the debate. Some consider the truth to be inflammatory, I can't help that and really don't care to.

This is a Constitutional issue.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:52 PM

29. I have a real simple definition: if it points at you, and a bullet comes out,

it's an assault weapon. Clear and to the point.

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Response to lastlib (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:58 PM

48. As good as any other definition..

The SCOTUS has developed a standard for determining if regulation of a specific type of weapon should exceed other common weapons. That standard is "In common use for lawful purposes". AR-15 absolutely fits this definition as do most single operator, non-fully automatic or non-explosive arms fit this description. The second amendment is pretty well defined legally with the D.C. and Chicago decisions in the past couple of years. Dramatic change...even if there was actually overwhelming public support, will require a constitutional amendment.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:54 PM

39. That's the same amount of viewers Faux has at any given time

I have a feeling there's probably a connection here...

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:07 PM

4. Here they come....

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:08 PM

5. As much as the NRA sucks ditchwater, it is not an enabler of mass murder. I don't think the ......

emotional rationalizations and overblown accusations from either side of gun violence used on our fellow citizens furthers the conversation in any good way at all.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:35 PM

9. Michigan Dem, It's reality, not emotional rationalization. It is not overblown.

How many of our children must die, murder or suicide, before we challenge the NRA? This citizen of the USA, is ready to limit access to weapons as the only way to fight gun violence. Damn the NRA, and the horse shit they lay via lobbyists.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:41 PM

11. if a situation like this doesn't make you emotional

something is seriously wrong.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:25 PM

36. Emotions is what makes this stuff worse and helps repeat them.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:47 PM

38. Emotions are normal and healthy

Guns are not. Repressing emotions is far more likely to lead to violence that understanding how one feels. Science shows that emotion is part of every decision we make. To pretend you can banish emotion is unhealthy and actually quite dangerous.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:49 PM

26. The NRA Defends The 2nd Amendment Which Enables The Politics - They Are Responsible

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:23 PM

35. They are not responsible for the bad wiring in mentaly unstable shooters. I loathe the NRA and ....

all those militia types. I think 'stand your ground' is an invitation to a gun fight where only the bad guys are armed. I think conceal carry is stupid beyond words. I believe open carry should be legal. I believe I should be allowed to own whatever weapon I might want. I don't believe I have the right to wave it around and point it at anybody. I think in a nation as armed as this one is, gun safety should be taught in public schools. That right there might have eliminated a lot of kids killing kids after one of them finds a loaded weapon dad or mom left around and I believe anyone who lets a firearm end up in the hands of a kid, that adult needs to face jail time. Both Israel and Switzerland requires all reservists (practically all able-bodied males over 21) to keep an assault rifle at home ready for call up. And both those nations have a bare fraction of the gun violence this nation has.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:25 PM

51. They're responsible for too many fucking guns

being too available to too many people. Gun safety taught in public schools? I don't think I've heard a more fucking moronic statement on this site.

God, just go crawl back under your rock, jerk. Your little penis substitutes are destroying this country.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:43 PM

53. They Are Responsible For The Politics That Enables This Gun Crazed Society Called America

eom

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Response to marble falls (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:24 PM

50. You are fucking wrong.

There is only one way this conversation is going to go. And it's not going to have a "good way". Guns need to go, the NRA and its nutty members have blood on their hands, and America is NOT going to forget this time.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:40 PM

10. Count me in as a soldier in that war

Yesterday was the last straw.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:47 PM

13. Was the shooter even a member of the NRA?

I'm all for greater gun controls but I think ceding to the NRA more power than they deserve does no good.

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Response to randome (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:19 PM

18. More Power than they deserve really?

Ask Bill Clinton he said they are what ruined him.

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Response to classykaren (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:48 PM

25. Forgot about that. Point taken.

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Response to randome (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:31 PM

19. Why is that relevant?

Our gun laws are lax due to the efforts of the NRA. Those lax gun laws result in a lot more guns in the country, and far too many of those guns are not stored in a safe manner.

Whether or not an individual murderer is a member of their organization simply isn't relevant.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:47 PM

24. Yeah. I get your point.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:47 PM

14. It would seem so..

lloyd

@Art_Guy1 NRA prevents funding for studies on gun violence | McClatchy mcclatchydc.com/2012/08/10/160…


I sent an email to an NRA lobbyist asking about the organization's hand in limiting research funding, and received the NRA's stock answer to press inquiries since the mass shooting in Aurora, Colo.

"NRA is not doing interviews," spokeswoman Stephanie Samford wrote. "We believe that now is the time for families to grieve and for the community to heal. There will be an appropriate time down the road to engage in political and policy discussions."

How very sensitive and thoughtful – and hypocritical. The NRA would prefer to discuss the policy and politics of guns on its terms, as it will this fall.
On the day that Holmes was taken into custody, the NRA filed its latest campaign finance disclosure, showing it has $8.4 million ready for the November election. That helps explain its clout in Congress over federal research funding.


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/08/10/160412/commentary-nra-prevents-funding.html#storylink=cpy

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:53 PM

15. That's nonsense.

I oppose the NRA for being a right-wing entity, but have no problem with upholding the second amendment. This accusation cannot just be aimed at the NRA, but at all those who oppose additional limitation of access to guns.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:00 PM

16. The NRA Opposes An Assault Weapons Ban

 

Last edited Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:31 PM - Edit history (5)

They spent money lobbying Congress to not legislate against assault weapons...and that is their indictment and enabling part in this massacre. It's clear to me. No overblown emotional argument here. Just fact.


Now, let's see what these guys had to say about the NRA et al....

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You assholes who can't come to grips with reality need to get a fucking psych eval. Here's the photo of the weapons used by adam lanza. If the rifle isn't an assault weapon, what is..a bazooka?
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Reference Link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_M4_Type_Carbine
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"...We have to save each other because all victims are equal and none is more equal than others. It's everyone's duty to start the avalanche."

--Bartholomew "Barley" Scott Blair, "The Russia House"
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Response to triplepoint (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:44 PM

22. The weapons used were not assault weapons

So you just kinda fell flat right there.

We can discuss the technical acts of why the AWB was a dumb idea if you want. I find that many people as not aware of the details of the concept.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:55 PM

31. Just so happens that rifle is used by navy seals

And we know they don't carry out assaults.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:25 PM

43. No rifle was used in this massacre.

The bastard used 9mm handguns.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #43)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:38 PM

46. You're sadly out of date.

They have confirmed he shot the children multiple time each with the rifle.

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Response to KeepItReal (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:43 PM

47. Last I heard, a rifle was found in the guy's trunk.

It was unfired. He had used two handguns inside the school.

This has changed?

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #43)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:19 PM

49. He had three weapons

And killed the children with the rifle, according to the news. Wayne hasn't emailed you the new talking points yet?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:48 PM

55. Cut the shit.

I live a few miles from Newtown; this happened in my backyard. I have a kid in 2nd grade.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #55)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:06 AM

57. I'm sorry.

Keep your child safe.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #57)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:10 AM

58. My town is like Newtown

Affluent suburb with good schools. And he's the exact age of those kids up there.


Yeah, I hugged him really hard on Friday when I picked him up from school. :/

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:10 PM

34. Whatever they are, ban them. n/t

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:40 PM

52. How Long You Been In a Coma There Jethro Troll?

 

Wake up already troll! The goddamn rifle was an assault weapon. Have you not seen the photo and specs for it yet? Dial down on that militant ignorance meds and face reality already!


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The M4 Type Carbine is a firearm manufactured by Bushmaster Firearms International, modeled on the AR-15 platform.
("AR" = "Assault Rifle")

The M4 Type Carbine is a reproduction of the Colt M4 Carbine, but is usually only semi-automatic for legality within the U.S. civilian market. However, it can be ordered by military or law enforcement organizations with three-round burst or fully automatic capability. The rifle accepts both .223 Remington and 5.56 x 45 mm NATO cartridges, and the barrel is hard chrome lined in both the bore and chamber. Unlike the current Colt M4 Carbine which features a 4-position telescopic stock, the Bushmaster has a 6-position. It is compatible with most standard AR-15 parts, and has the ability to accept all AR15/M16 type STANAG magazines. It is also one of many different AR-15 rifles Bushmaster manufactures which they have trademarked as "XM-15" rifles. Bushmaster has also developed a 6.8 mm Remington SPC and a 7.62 x 39mm version of the rifle, simply named the 6.8mm SPC Rifle and the 7.62 x 39mm Carbine respectively, as well as a separate upper receiver kit that can be installed on any AR-15 type lower receiver. All variants of the rifle are available in either M4A2 and M4A3 configurations; the difference being the M4A3 has a removable carry handle allowing access to a Picatinny rail for mounting accessories. Similarly, the 6.8mm SPC Rifle is available as either the A2 or the A3. The standard M4 Type Carbine features a permanently fixed "Izzy" flash suppressor attached to a 14.5" barrel which brings the barrel to a total length of 16". Bushmaster also produces the Patrolman's Carbine variant which features the more common removable "Bird Cage" flash suppressor, attached to a 16" barrel bringing the total barrel length to 17.5". Both of these comply with current U.S. federal law which states a minimum of a 16" inch barrel for a rifle. There is also a military M4 Type Carbine which comes with a 14.5" barrel and a removable "Bird Cage" flash suppressor. The 6.8mm SPC Rifle only comes with a 16" barrel and a removable "Izzy" flash suppressor. An M4 Type Post-Ban Carbine was developed for the 1994 United States Federal Assault Weapons Ban requirements. Since the ban expired in 2004, this rifle has essentially been replaced by the M4A2 and M4A3. However, some states in the U.S. have kept these laws, so the rifle is still being produced. The M4 carbine (or similar variants) is currently in service with military and police organizations in over 60 nations around the world.

Users:
* Czech Republic: The Bushmaster M4A3 B.M.A.S. is used by special forces units of the Czech Armed Forces. These rifles are usually seen with an M203 grenade launcher. The 601st Special Forces Group is armed with the M4A3. The Emergency department of Military police use the M4A3 and sniper group of 43rd Airborne mechanized battalion.
* Georgia
* New Zealand: In 2006, the Armed Offenders Squad of the New Zealand Police replaced the Remington Model 7 with the Bushmaster M4 as their standard issue rifle.
* Poland: The Bushmaster M4A3 was used by the Polish GROM.
* South Korea: Used by the South Korean Coast Guard's Special Sea Attack Team.
* Thailand: The Bushmaster M4A3 is used by Thai Royal Navy SEALs equip with SOPMOD.

Reference Link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_M4_Type_Carbine

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Response to triplepoint (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:05 PM

56. Oh, lordy lordy, a fresh fish to deal with.

And an insulting one, too. Nice. I mean, I have 43,000 posts, and you have two orders of magnitude less, divided by two, but I'm a troll or something.



I do know there are about a hundred different variations on the AR platform, with designs optimized for tactical, target, and hunting use.

I do know the definition of "assault weapon" is arbitrary, and varies by state, and includes certain kinds of rifles, shotguns, and pistols.

I do know that in Connecticut, the state that I live in, uses same definition of "assault weapon" that the now-expired federal ban used. To whit:

A semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine and TWO OR MORE of the following features:

  • Folding or telescoping stock
  • Pistol grip
  • Bayonet mount
  • Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
  • Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device that enables launching or firing rifle grenades, though this applies only to muzzle mounted grenade launchers and not those mounted externally)


Is that enough for you, or do you need more information?

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:26 AM

62. And yet it or they managed to assault 20 children and six adults REALLY well.

So I have no problem adding them to any ban list under consideration. You look at the accessories and I look at the kill.

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Response to aquart (Reply #62)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:07 AM

65. I agree.

The solution is not to take the pander-bear hand-wringing "assault weapons" track. Come out and say you want to ban semi-automatic long guns. Have an honest debate about it, at least.

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Response to triplepoint (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:16 AM

59. Thanks for the videos and the post.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:13 PM

17. CORRECT

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:32 PM

20. Yes, the NRA is the enabler of mass murderers, and mass murders.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:40 PM

21. Self removal

Last edited Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Got the wrong person in mind when I saw the title.



My opinion is posted down thread

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:53 PM

30. Fuck the NRA

Fuck them.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:03 PM

32. Jerrold Nadler, not Ralph Nader.

You didn't read the OP

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:34 PM

45. *sigh* you're right.

Small screen syndrome. My bad. I'll correct or self delete.



I agree that we need to curb all lobbying, which would of course affect the NRA.

Get the money out of politics and break the oligarchy. Just focusing on the NRA is stupid. Tax the damn rich like we used too. They cause far more damage.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:06 AM

61. We all make mistakes.

The key is to learn from them. I wish those who support the oligarchy despite suffering the consequences of their actions would learn to not support the oligarchy!

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #61)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:05 AM

64. That would help a lot.

*shrug*

Well, the Democrats have become corporatist, so the difference between parties on an economic measure isn't enough to make a real difference in the lives of those that support the plutocracy. *sigh*


Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:04 PM

33. Horseshit!

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:33 PM

42. Well, it's clear that either you didn't read the article very well,

because just for your info they aren't talking about Ralph Nader.

So, anything you've posted is very suspect since you weren't even interested in reading the article or can't comprehend very well.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:44 PM

23. here and in mexico nt

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:50 PM

27. I hereby enlist as a soldier in this war.

Rest assured I will be in the front line.

God, I am SO.FUCKING.MAD.about this!!

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:52 PM

28. Drive them into the sea

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:29 PM

37. Nadler said Obama needs to "exploit this"

 

To me, using that language with regards to this heartcrushing incident is sick. Exploit it? Exploit the death of children?

No matter how you cut it, there is no way to justify using that phrase. Nadler should be ashamed.

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Response to UndahCovah (Reply #37)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:07 PM

40. Exploit the opportunity.

Don't succumb to one more replay of the "now is not the time to talk about guns" mantra. After Columbine it was not the time. After Aurora, it was not the time. After Santana High School, it was not the time. Fuck that shit. Now is the time. Let's talk.

That is what he meant.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:27 PM

41. WE the PEOPLE, surrendered our civil responsibilities to repug rt wing nuts: NRA

The power this org has is the $$ funding extremism and arms and the rights people have not expressed. We voted the Congress into office. We enabled BOEHNER HOUSE to do nothing for 2 years and of course our inaction has given groups like ALEC, NRA power over our very lives.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:30 PM

44. NRA members are moral monsters

 

who want the right to murder in the name of Freiheit.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:29 PM

54. K&R!

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:18 AM

60. Absolutely. As are its supporters and apologists.

n/t

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:52 AM

63. The NRA, much like the GOP, has lost its way. Instead of being a force for good when it comes to

guns, gun safety, reasonable regulation on a national level, etc., they've become another cult of misguided ideologues running rough shod over the "will of the people". Thanks to them and other pro gun lobby groups, our society is inundated with guns (something to the tune of 300 million, and I believe that's only counting the legal ones). We've become a society obsessed and fascinated with guns, the more the merrier. It's out of control. Perhaps an assault rifle or the Glock should become our national symbol, emblazon it on the flag, presidential seal, etc. Will this horrific shooting finally be the tipping point where Americans say enough is enough?

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:49 PM

66. hooo boy... DU gun Nuts getting their asses handed to them

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:01 PM

67. yeah, a war. isn't that the way the govermentt attempts to solve all problems ....

related to violence, with more violence.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:38 PM

68. The NRA is a terrorist organization!

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:34 PM

69. Kick

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