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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:37 PM

White House responds to Elementary School Shooting: 'Today is not the day to discuss gun laws

Source: Think Progress

Responding to Friday morning’s tragic elementary school shooting in Connecticut, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters today that President Obama was informed of the incident at 10:30AM and will “receive regular updates as the day progresses.”

But Carney refused to address how the gun laws contribute to the high numbers of mass shootings or what can be done to prevent these all-too-common events. The press secretary insisted that it is inappropriate to discuss the matter:
Q: The President made a campaign promise to work to renew the assault weapons ban. Why won’t you stand up here today and say that that remains a commitment of his?

CARNEY: It does remain a commitment of his. What I said is, today is not the day, I believe as a father, a day to engage in the usual Washington policy debates. I think that that they will come, but today of not that day, especially as we are awaiting more information about the situation in Connecticut.

Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/12/14/1337271/white-house-responds-to-elementary-school-shooting-today-is-not-the-day-to-discuss-gun-laws/



Today is EXACTLY THE DAY TO DISCUSS THIS!! I think the WH needs to grow a set. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Reply White House responds to Elementary School Shooting: 'Today is not the day to discuss gun laws (Original post)
Harry Monroe Dec 2012 OP
Loudly Dec 2012 #1
Stuckinthebush Dec 2012 #2
frazzled Dec 2012 #20
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #39
frazzled Dec 2012 #88
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #93
frazzled Dec 2012 #94
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #96
frazzled Dec 2012 #104
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #108
frazzled Dec 2012 #109
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #110
Stuckinthebush Dec 2012 #40
RC Dec 2012 #87
NickB79 Dec 2012 #101
frazzled Dec 2012 #103
NickB79 Dec 2012 #107
Harmony Blue Dec 2012 #3
Arctic Dave Dec 2012 #4
LiberalArkie Dec 2012 #25
earthside Dec 2012 #72
Enrique Dec 2012 #5
FiveGoodMen Dec 2012 #17
Stuckinthebush Dec 2012 #51
kysrsoze Dec 2012 #6
Myrina Dec 2012 #23
Ter Dec 2012 #92
Tx4obama Dec 2012 #7
dchill Dec 2012 #16
frylock Dec 2012 #28
thedanlovingood Dec 2012 #56
ChazII Dec 2012 #70
mac56 Dec 2012 #97
hrmjustin Dec 2012 #106
BainsBane Dec 2012 #117
Evergreen Emerald Dec 2012 #120
jberryhill Dec 2012 #122
AndyA Dec 2012 #8
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #13
Iggo Dec 2012 #21
Journeyman Dec 2012 #9
NICO9000 Dec 2012 #35
adieu Dec 2012 #38
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #10
Melinda Dec 2012 #11
The Second Stone Dec 2012 #12
liberalgunwilltravel Dec 2012 #14
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #15
dchill Dec 2012 #19
okwmember Dec 2012 #18
frylock Dec 2012 #22
Myrina Dec 2012 #27
fugop Dec 2012 #24
Sunlei Dec 2012 #26
d_b Dec 2012 #29
liberalmuse Dec 2012 #30
JohnnyLib2 Dec 2012 #31
Plucketeer Dec 2012 #32
forestpath Dec 2012 #33
wordpix Dec 2012 #82
Akoto Dec 2012 #34
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #36
Harmony Blue Dec 2012 #42
humblebum Dec 2012 #37
fugop Dec 2012 #44
humblebum Dec 2012 #47
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #49
Stuckinthebush Dec 2012 #52
humblebum Dec 2012 #55
navarth Dec 2012 #80
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #41
iandhr Dec 2012 #43
Filibuster Harry Dec 2012 #45
Tx4obama Dec 2012 #46
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #48
cbdo2007 Dec 2012 #50
uppityperson Dec 2012 #53
Arkana Dec 2012 #54
GoCubsGo Dec 2012 #57
jaded_old_cynic Dec 2012 #60
Richardo Dec 2012 #64
steve2470 Dec 2012 #91
mac56 Dec 2012 #98
Frank Cannon Dec 2012 #114
LynneSin Dec 2012 #58
AmandaMae Dec 2012 #59
guyton Dec 2012 #61
2naSalit Dec 2012 #81
former9thward Dec 2012 #119
valerief Dec 2012 #62
Richardo Dec 2012 #63
GoCubsGo Dec 2012 #66
classykaren Dec 2012 #99
Richardo Dec 2012 #100
wordpix Dec 2012 #65
Lasher Dec 2012 #67
grahamhgreen Dec 2012 #75
SansACause Dec 2012 #68
union_maid Dec 2012 #69
deminks Dec 2012 #71
Javaman Dec 2012 #73
grahamhgreen Dec 2012 #74
Fearless Dec 2012 #76
Safetykitten Dec 2012 #77
flakey_foont Dec 2012 #78
RoccoR5955 Dec 2012 #79
90-percent Dec 2012 #83
lexx21 Dec 2012 #84
88mph Dec 2012 #85
caraher Dec 2012 #86
brentspeak Dec 2012 #89
chimpymustgo Dec 2012 #90
NickB79 Dec 2012 #95
primavera Dec 2012 #102
Aerows Dec 2012 #105
arely staircase Dec 2012 #111
lbrtbell Dec 2012 #112
Blandocyte Dec 2012 #113
bocephus0706 Dec 2012 #115
Jennicut Dec 2012 #116
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #118
democrattotheend Dec 2012 #121
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #123
democrattotheend Dec 2012 #124

Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:38 PM

1. Tip toeing.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:38 PM

2. Jesus

Such a weak and craven statement by Carney.

Blech.

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Response to Stuckinthebush (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:44 PM

20. As a strong (avid) supporter of the assault weapons ban

for many years, I disagree. Carney was right to state the president's position that today, at this moment, is not the time for a political statement. There are facts to be had about the incident, national and personal grief to be expressed, tears to be shed, and prayers and assistance to be offered to the community. It will do no good for the eventual passage of this law to whip up immediate political dust storms.

Calm and rational wins the day. Obama made a promise to attempt to renew the assault weapons ban. I believe he will make good on that promise, because that is what he does. Let's not let the pro-guns-at-any-cost ideologues turn this sad day into a platform for their warped views.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:56 PM

39. If not today, when?

OK, I get that you don't counsel a 400 pound person about his diet when he is in the ER with a heart attack. But when do you do it?

How about tomorrow? How about our gun violence problem being the subject of Obama's weekly address on Saturday?

How about Monday? What does he have on his Monday agenda that is more important than the gun violence problem? More talk about the bullshit "fiscal cliff" fiction?

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:59 PM

88. Tomorrow sounds good

Just kidding. And your analogy about the obese person in the middle of a heart attack is very apt. Wish I'd thought about that myself.

I think that no legislative business will be done until the start of the second term, with a new (more Democratic) Congress and a new Cabinet in place, and all the mishegas about the fiscal cliff and debt ceiling put to bed. And then the campaign promises will be attended to, one by one (in what order, who knows).

This is reminding me somewhat of the DADT issue. People were clamoring the day after the election to see something done; but there are always lots of competing issues and agendas. Immediate gratification was not possible. But it did happen. And it happened big.

I have no doubt that Obama will be making a hard push to reinstate the assault weapons ban during this term. Whether he will win it in Congress is another story, and I don't know how that will end. I do know that he is a man of his word, whenever it is possible to keep his word.

I wonder why we who have been pushing so hard for so many years to reinstate this one lousy law, which makes so much sense, can't gather our voices under a single organizational banner that can exert immense pressure on the powers that be -- one that is as strong in numbers and well-funded as the NRA is fighting against it.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #88)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:12 PM

93. This Congress will not pass any gun legislation. I'm asking for leadership.

How many more of these horrible events do we have to see before we have a President who has the guts to stand up and state the obvious?

That won't get laws passed immediately. But nothing happens until we start to stand up to the NRA bullies, and today is a good day for that.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #93)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:18 PM

94. Leadership starts with us

Do you think the amazing progress that has been made in gay rights happened on its own from the top down, because of leadership? By magic? No, it's because people organized, raised money, hired lobbyists, marched, came out of the closet, and worked like hell for the past 20 years ... and it finally paid off with minds being changed in the public and leaders hearing the message.

Go to the Brady Campaign's web site and sign up. They've already got some muscle, and it will be stronger if we join them.


And for the record: President Obama did make a statement today about taking legislative action (between tears). He's already there: he needs OUR backs to lean on Congress and our friends and neighbors.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #94)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:29 PM

96. That's a cop out

Are you saying that Lincoln took no leadership to end slavery?

Are you saying that FDR took no leadership in advancing the public works that got us out of the Depression?

Are you saying that Kennedy took no leadership in challenging the country to land on the moon?

Just when did we stop expecting leadership of our Presidents?

If the job of the President is simply to hide out until an issue reaches 51% popularity, we don't need a President. A robot could easily do that.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #96)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:50 PM

104. I'm saying the President has already led

He made it a campaign commitment; he talked about it today. He WILL push for legislation. That's not enough to get a bunch of cowering conservatives and on-the-fence Democrats in line to pass something. That's OUR job.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #104)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:15 PM

108. I must have missed that. I watched every debate. I listened to many of his stump speeches.

I surely don't remember any bold statement about the gun problem. I don't even remember ANY comments about it. I certainly don't recall him talking about what legislation he thinks is needed.

But my memory is not perfect. If he has made such clear statements, please point me to them.

All I recall is after each of these shootings he goes and look officially sad for the cameras and talks about how bad it is that it happened, and then never says anything more about it.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #108)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:30 PM

109. You must have missed the second debate

I don't think you could categorize it as "bold," but the statement was made, and reiterated today:

Audience member Nina Gonzalez asked President Obama what he had done to, or plans to do, to keep AK-47's and other assault weapons out of the hands of criminals.

Obama responded by saying that "weapons that were designed for soldiers in war theaters don't belong on our streets. And so what I'm trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how do we reduce the violence generally. Part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced."

According to Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Obama has previously said that he supports the renewal of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which was signed by President Bill Clinton in 1994 and expired in 2004.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57534331-504083/debate-fact-check-romney-and-obama-talk-assault-weapons/


The WH reaffirmed this position this afternoon:

The White House said President Barack Obama supports reinstatement of a federal ban on assault weapons — a position he took in the 2008 campaign but failed to press during his first term.
“It does remain a commitment of his,” presidential spokesman Jay Carney told reporters as the nation reeled from a mass shooting in Connecticut that mainly killed school children.

http://wtvr.com/2012/12/14/obama-remains-committed-to-assault-weapons-ban-white-house/

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Response to frazzled (Reply #109)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:04 PM

110. OK. Thank you. It was so tepid that I missed it.

I think what frustrates me the most about Obama is the combination of:

a) picking his battles so carefully and narrowly as to not take any action on most of the issues

combined with

b) not fighting to get a majority in the House, where he could actually move forward on some of these things.

The GOP won 232 seats. If we had won only 15 of those, Nancy Pelosi would be driving this bus. It is maddening that the Obama campaign practically never mentioned the importance of winning the House. Early on, there was some talk of a Truman-style campaign running against the "do nothing Congress", but they dropped that strategy and instead just worried about Obama getting his.

We can already see exactly what the next 4 years will be like, despite the fact that Obama won his own office handily. And if it is, the GOP will win in a landslide in 2016 because people will be so sick of nothing getting done.

The only opportunity for any progress is to make a huge push to win those 15 extra seats in 2014.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:58 PM

40. It'll never happen

Obama will never push for any serious legislation and the conversation will go unheard. The time is now.

But - it doesn't matter. It'll never happen.

We will tsk tsk about this incident and say some serious and thoughtful things about mental illness but just like all of the other tragic shootings the conversation will be myopic.

Nope. No way the US of A has any meaningful discussion about the 2nd Amendment.

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Response to Stuckinthebush (Reply #40)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:45 PM

87. Obama can not do anything. If he tries, the gun nuts of every stripe will take that as proof of

 

Obama wanting to take their guns away.
That is the whole purpose of the (insert Democratic President's name here) gonna take your guns away bullshit in the first place. To prime the pump, so to speak, to pre-program the gun wackos, so they will know to be armed and ready in case someone in power tries to do something sane about our out of control gun problem.
It doesn't even have to be the President. Anyone in the Administration can try to advance sane gun control in this country and it will still be Obama's fault. "Obama is trying to take away your guns." Like Hell, he is. He knows if he tries too hard, he could very well get shot himself.

My right to not be shot, my children's right not to be shot, in the Mall, in a school, in our homes, wherever, supersedes anyone's right to possess guns because of a reading comprehension problem by some, of the Constitution.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:38 PM

101. Renewing the AWB wouldn't have stopped this

Even if the shooter had used a rifle (which he apparently didn't, since it was found in his car in the parking lot, not on his dead body), AR-15's were widely available during the AWB in the 90's. The manufacturers simply removed a few cosmetic features and called them "target rifles."

You'd have to pass a law far, far stronger than just renewing the original AWB, one that called for essentially an outright ban on the construction of semi-automatic rifles and their magazines and possibly the confiscation and destruction of existing guns. I don't see that ever passing, because a large contingent of Democrats from more rural parts of the country would side with essentially the entire GOP party to defeat it.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #101)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:48 PM

103. That's not an argument for doing nothing

Let's get as strong while sensible law as possible.

People will rob banks, embezzle, commit spousal abuse, and do any number of crimes no matter what: it doesn't mean we should allow those things to be either legal or easy.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #103)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:59 PM

107. Agreed. We need to do something about this

I just think that coming at it from the point of view of "renew the AWB" is going to end up being mostly a waste of time and political capital that in the end has virtually no impact on our murder rates.

I would definitely embrace more sensible gun laws in this country, if someone would actually propose some that would make a meaningful impact. As it stands, I haven't seen many proposals floated out there in many years. It's pretty damn discouraging.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:39 PM

3. Public outrage is growing

as people learn of this news (may still at work)...I sense something different this time around. The apathy about this issue isn't there anymore....in light of what is happening and given the holiday season....this is different.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:39 PM

4. Obama doesn't have the balls to make a stand on anything.

 

If he can't nut up on something like this then he won't ever have the ability.

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:46 PM

25. It sure looks that way.

Bring me an idea and I will tell you if I (my focus group) like it.

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:59 PM

72. The 'old' Obama?

Too cautious? Too risk averse?

I'm starting to have that sinking feeling that the 'old' Obama who caved on Afghanistan, who caved on the public option, who caved on the Bush tax cuts in 2009 ... is back.

Such a spate of gun violence in the past couple of years --- this calls for a principled, bold response.

But I suspect we are not going to get what we need.

I hope I'm wrong and that TODAY Pres. Obama does more than just express condolences -- he is the President -- he must lead and not be timid in the face of this kind of atrocity.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:39 PM

5. at least he didn't tell us to pray

thank God for that.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:43 PM

17. Reminds me of...

"When I hear things like that, I thank god I'm an atheist" -- Mike Stivic, All in the Family

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Response to Enrique (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:07 PM

51. Agreed

That would have sent me way over the edge.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:40 PM

6. WHEN THE FUCK IS IT THE RIGHT DAY? Nothing happened after the other recent shootings.

Bunch of cowards.

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Response to kysrsoze (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:46 PM

23. And every parent/teacher/clergy in Newton should be calling the WH to ask that.

Un fucking believeable.

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Response to kysrsoze (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:05 PM

92. Hopefully never

 

n/t

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:41 PM

7. I agree that today is NOT the day for the White House to talk about gun control...


the bodies have not even yet been removed from the school.

The focus should be on the families today.

Tomorrow will be a better day to start the policy discussions.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:42 PM

16. Or yesterday.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:48 PM

28. well we had a couple days between the last event to talk about it..

and we'll probably have another couple days to talk about it before the next one. so while your waiting for the bodies to cool, you might make note that they're stacking up like cordwood.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:13 PM

56. I agree with Carney and Mr. Obama! STOP your Lynch Mob Mentality!

Today is NOT the day... that would be lynch mob mentality. Today is to address this emergency and the families and friends. To do otherwise would be a terrible disservice to the families, friends and school personnel and it lowers you to the level of the shooter! You are NOT al-Qaeda, you are Americans!
Dan Lovingood

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Response to thedanlovingood (Reply #56)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:57 PM

70. +1

Thank you for your common sense. We need to let the families, faculty/staff, first responders etc... have a chance to grieve.

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Response to thedanlovingood (Reply #56)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:30 PM

97. Thanks, Dan.

I'm with you.

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Response to thedanlovingood (Reply #56)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:58 PM

106. On this sad day I welcome you to DU!

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Response to thedanlovingood (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:31 AM

117. Why come here then?

You join a progressive discussion board on a day of a national tragedy just to tell us to shut up?
Who the fuck are you to tell e what to talk about. Go back to your NRA coven if you don't want to hear outrage about gun violence.

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Response to thedanlovingood (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:29 PM

120. Wrong. What a bunch of political bs

Today is THE day to honor those who died with plans to prohibit future attacks.

It is a load of crap to silence the gun control argument by suggesting that "today is not the day." The argument makes no sense. It is more political cover designed to hide the connection between NRA and violence.

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Response to thedanlovingood (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:13 PM

122. Nutjobs and freaks are not in charge of what I choose to discuss

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:41 PM

8. When is the day to discuss this?

It wasn't the right time after the theatre shootings in Aurora, CO, either.

This is two now, just this week. When is the right time? How many more will die?

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Response to AndyA (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:42 PM

13. This is America--where guns are sacred and post-birth human life isn't nt

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Response to AndyA (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:45 PM

21. Yesterday.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:41 PM

9. Fine. But are we now removed enough to discuss Charles Whitman?. . .

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:52 PM

35. Too soon!

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:54 PM

38. Good call

Would need to google that for the young'uns.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:41 PM

10. America loves guns more than it loves its own children.

Obama ain't gonna change that, and neither will this atrocity.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:41 PM

11. :::facepalm:::

If not today, when?

The horror is unimaginable. My heart goes out to the babies, all other victims, and to their families.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:42 PM

12. Imagine other kinds of places shot up and it would be time to discuss it

or have adequate security. The people who need to discuss this have lots and lots of security. Apparently elementary school children are expendable. Over and over and over and over and over again.

Our politicians vote themselves health care and make us buy it on the open market.
Our politicians cut our social security through inflation and age changes and vote themselves pensions.
Our politicians give themselves annual pay raises and never raise the minimum wage.
Our politicians vote themselves everything, and leave us nothing.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:42 PM

14. I agree. It isn't the day.

Today should be the day we give the victims and there families all the support they need. There will be the time very soon to address the root causes of these continued tragedies and to bring some sense to our gun policies. But let's support the victims and their families first.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:42 PM

15. That would be funny if it weren't so tragically pathetic.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:44 PM

19. I think the word is LAME.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:43 PM

18. It is never the right time. There's always some excuse for not doing anything.

Hell The Daily Show just addressed this just last week. When will the powers that be wake up?

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:46 PM

22. the windows between these events is growing smaller and smaller..

so y'all better find a time to talk about real fucking soon.

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Response to frylock (Reply #22)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:48 PM

27. +100

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:46 PM

24. Re-election not an issue now so...

I hope to God that this is going to be the time. For once I say go ahead and politicize the HELL out of this. If the deaths of all these innocent little ones and their teachers isn't enough, we are damned.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:47 PM

26. The press should be asking these questions of the NRA and the state Govs.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:49 PM

29. is that a fucking joke?

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:50 PM

30. Today is the day to discuss gun laws.

CHRIST on a fucking cracker.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:50 PM

31. Not today, but immediately following the funerals. A strong statement toward 2013 would fit.

n/t

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:51 PM

32. ONE MORE DAY avoided....

One more day of opportunity for some gun-weilding idiot to have their day of glory. Yeah - the NRA says "Don't be so quick on the trigger here!"

Maybe Carney needs to see the Carnage up close and personal.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:51 PM

33. It's clear that President Obama can't stand up to the NRA - under ANY circumstances.

 

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Response to forestpath (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:22 PM

82. if he won't I will - calling for a Million Mad About Guns March

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:52 PM

34. Agree, not the day for politics. 27 died, mostly kids. Have respect. There will be a tomorrow. n/t

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:52 PM

36. I'm a gun owner.

Longtime supporter of RKBA. You name it.

But.


For a long time, I have also been a supporter of things like Registration. It can be done. Sure, registries can be mis-used (See, California, 1992), but it CAN be done. It doesn't have to be overly expensive. It doesn't have to be a venue for confiscation or whatever the fears might be.

This shooting doesn't change anything for me around what I feel our rights are, or whether we should have firearms at all... but.


It has changed one thing. Self-reflection shows I have at times tried to shout down even discussion of some types of gun control. (not registration so much, I've been a supporter of that for years.) I won't do that anymore. We need to be talking, in order to come up with creative solutions to this problem. Vitriol. Shouting. Drowning people out. Even sarcasm. It all sets a tone of 'no discussion', and that isn't helpful. You won't see that from me, anymore.

My condolences to the families, the first responders, all the victims, and the survivors that will have to live on with this memory.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:00 PM

42. My step father and grandfather both are avid collectors

of guns and both believe that the discussion should be up on the table for a change.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:52 PM

37. So do we outlaw knives too? Just curious.

 

Knife attack at Chinese school wounds 22 children

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html

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Response to humblebum (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:01 PM

44. How many dead?

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Response to fugop (Reply #44)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:04 PM

47. Does it matter? People die from flying rocks too?

 

Outlaw rocks?

Perhaps we should be addressing the ongoing love affair with violence that seems to dominate society today.

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Response to humblebum (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:06 PM

49. Do you fucking people get a memo?

Yeah, use this one...

25th time I've seen this today.

Unreal.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #49)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:08 PM

52. +1

No kidding. Sick.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #49)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:13 PM

55. Let's make it 26 then.

 

Tell me? Just how much gun control is there in Mexico, and how many are being killed in Mexico by guns on a daily basis?

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Response to humblebum (Reply #55)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:15 PM

80. I would suspect a lot more than by knives or rocks?

maybe I'm wrong.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:00 PM

41. Obama hate machine on DU is in full effect. Trashing thread.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:00 PM

43. Of course not.

The NRA has a strangle hold on commonsense. The Pres can't do anything about it because the loonies the tea-party will drum up Obama is trying to take our guns.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:01 PM

45. You can get on the president if you want to but seriously, you know if he wanted to change

the gun laws what would happen: House would reject it (Rs) and /or Senate Rs would filibuster it.

I am not saying he shouldn't try to change them but if you have been following this congress for the past 4 years you know the result.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:04 PM

46. Assault weapons ban "a commitment" of President Obama's, spokesman says



A few more details from the White House press briefing earlier. White House spokesman Jay Carney said while today is not the day to debate gun policy, an assault weapons ban "does remain a commitment" of President Obama.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:05 PM

48. I'm going to throw up.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:06 PM

50. COWARDS!!!!! Stand up for the dead children!!!!!!!!

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:10 PM

53. I agree that we can allow 1 day of information gathering and mourning THEN it is sure time to discus

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:11 PM

54. No, because then you are using a tragedy to promote a political agenda.

Whether you agree with it or not, it's still not a wise course for the White House to take right now. The less we have to hear from the gun nuts about how Obama's going to send in the UN to take their guns, the better.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:13 PM

57. Nope. Tomorrow is the day.

I want people to be able to see the faces of those little kids that died first. I want them to see the faces of their parents. Let everyone see the whole aftermath of this, and let it sink in. Give the NRA and their apologists a day to get out their excuses and talking points. Let the President collect his thought about this, and give him time to get his words together. Now isn't the time for knee-jerk comments.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #57)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:19 PM

60. ^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

NT

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #57)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:28 PM

64. Nicely said.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #57)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:50 PM

91. I totally agree

Tomorrow and the following days are more than enough time to discuss the issues.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #57)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:31 PM

98. yup

agreed

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #57)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:20 PM

114. Word up.

Well said. We need time for the impact of this horrible tragedy to sink in to the thickest of heads.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:17 PM

58. I have to agree with him. This is not a day for political grandstanding

We were angered when Romney tried to politicize what happened in Benghazi and to me it would be no different if the Obama folks made a big stink about gun control today.

Don't get me wrong - it's important that we address this; however, tomorrow is a better time.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:18 PM

59. When will it be the time?!!!! Is this a joke? How many times are we going to let this happen??

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:20 PM

61. Muzzle loaders

The 2nd amendment nuts want to have a militia? Let 'em play with muzzle loaders.

Anything faster than that to shoot & reload should be banned.

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Response to guyton (Reply #61)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:20 PM

81. I like that idea...

The only firearms I own are muzzle loaders. I tell people that if were to use them as protection, it would be most efficient to use them as if they were baseball bats.

I think this "guns AND violence" in this country needs to take place ASAP. I mourn for all those who were killed and their loved ones but I wonder if they are expecting something to happen tomorrow.

Perhaps the members of Congress who have now bailed for home would think more about it if protests were staged outside their homes, relentlessly, until they actually do something and stop paying homage to the almighty dollars that come from their feared benefactors like the "No Reasoning Allowed" (NRA) cabal. Can't just put this all on the pres. He isn't the entire government.

The conversation needs to begin right away though.

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Response to guyton (Reply #61)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:24 PM

119. I know you want to be consistent and not a hypocrite.

So under your logic the First Amendment should only apply to those things produced by 18th century printing presses. Anything else would be subject to government censorship (of course including sites like DU).

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:23 PM

62. Today is not the day? Every goddam day is THE DAY!!!!! nt

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:24 PM

63. He's absolutely correct.

What you want is for the WH to politicize the tragedy - like the RW did with Benghazi.

The President is smarter (and more sensitive) than that.

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Response to Richardo (Reply #63)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:32 PM

66. Yes, and...

...the more people see what happened, they more likely they are going to give him the support he needs to do something. Going out today will only serve to set the "Obama wants to take your guns" crowd into a tizzy, and they have a hell of a propaganda machine.

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Response to Richardo (Reply #63)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:32 PM

99. There will be copcats so again When is the time??

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Response to classykaren (Reply #99)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:37 PM

100. Not today.

That leaves all ther rest of them.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:29 PM

65. wrong, today is THE DAY to discuss it and call emergency session of Congress

instead of hiding your f-ing heads in the sand, call them ALL OUT

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:46 PM

67. I agree with Secretary Carney

Today is not the day to push a political agenda.

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Response to Lasher (Reply #67)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:04 PM

75. It's not political, people are dying.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:50 PM

68. repost ot This Modern World


Again and again and again. The gun nuts have won, and there's nothing that will be done about it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002981836

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:54 PM

69. It's most certainly not the day

The last thing that these families need is to feel like pawns in a political battle. And you know how ugly the pro-gun side is going to be about it when the argument starts. No one involved in this tragedy needs that right now.

There will be time to discuss it, but I'm not hopeful. If there are enough people on DU of all places who like guns enough to warrant the Gungeon, what hope is there to get enough support from the general populations to improve gun laws? I mean, I'm for it. This crime is horrific and there is no way so many children would have died if not for the availablity of guns. Right now I've got zero sympathy for anyone who wants them legal and available. But it seems like that battle was lost long ago. This kind of thing is the result of that loss.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:58 PM

71. If not now, when? nt

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:00 PM

73. As I have said before...

those in authority never think it's a good time to discuss gun laws.

SS was once the political third rail.

Now with the strength of the NRA lobbying, guns regs and laws are now the third rail.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:03 PM

74. FAIL.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:04 PM

76. A disgusting time to play politics.

It is exactly the time to discuss gun laws.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:05 PM

77. Of course it is not. When is the day ever to have a discussion that is real about it?

 

Like a little white obsequious toad from central casting, Carney in his parsed words puts on display the utter and complete cowardice that is the current administration in anything that smacks of domestic fucking craziness that runs amok in our little country.

Be it money laundering bankers caught red handed, or today another in a parade of mass shootings, today is NEVER the day to talk about anything in seriousness.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:07 PM

78. Wrong!

Today is the ideal time to have this discussion! Should have started long ago.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:15 PM

79. FAIL!

If not today, when? How many have to die in the hands of gun-nuts before it's time?

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:24 PM

83. I know what it will take

A bunch of Koresh/McVeigh creeps loaded to the gills with automatic rifles invading a national live sporting event and massacring thousands.

"Well, gee wizz, folks, looks like today IS FINALLY the day to have a national discussion about gun control."

It looks like it will have to take massacre on the scale of total war to start a meaningful gun control dialog in our country!

-90% jimmy

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:33 PM

84. When the twin towers fell...

people were already being asked on camera "what rights are you willing to give up to feel safe?" Those that were being asked were covered in concrete dust because they were near the towers as they fell.

Today is not the day to talk about gun policy? Today is EXACTLY the day to talk about gun policy. The Whitehouse needs to throw down the gauntlet to congress. Those that vote against gun control, name them and shame them. Obama can't be re-elected, so what does he have to lose?

How many more need to die because a mentally unbalanced person has access to a firearm? There is a knowledge test in order to receive a license to drive, why not a psych evaluation in order to purchase a weapon?

This crap has to stop. Gun owners need to be evaluated. The cost be damned.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:41 PM

85. the President is right.

 

today is not the day because everyone is letting their emotions run wild right now.


no one is thinking straight right now. that I know for damn sure.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:41 PM

86. It looks like Obama is saying more than Carney would

He's calling for "meaningful action."

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Response to caraher (Reply #86)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:34 PM

89. Agreed, and somewhat encouraging n/t

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Response to caraher (Reply #86)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:39 PM

90. Today is the day. Ban assault weapons. No concealed weapons. LONG waiting periods for purchases.

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Response to chimpymustgo (Reply #90)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:28 PM

95. The shooter used 2 handguns, not an assault rifle

And didn't have a concealed carry permit as far as the MSM has reported: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559261/connecticut-elementary-school-massacre-18-children-among-27-dead/

"CBS News correspondent Bob Orr reports that authorities found two guns on the gunman's body, a Glock 9 mm pistol and a Sig Sauer pistol. A Bushmaster assault rifle was found in his vehicle, Orr reports. The weapons appeared to be legally purchased, one source told Orr."

So banning rifles and CCW permits won't prevent this from occurring again in the future. I've been sitting here for the past hour thinking about what we could do that would have a real impact, and for the life of me can't come up with anything.

We're not going to ban guns; the Supreme Court has already ruled the 2nd Amendment is a personal freedom.

We're not going to repeal the 2nd Amendment; the culture of gun ownership in this country is far too strong to get that passed.

On the flip side, I very much disagree with calls to arm teachers that the NRA likes to throw out there from time to time.

Are there any propositions that have a chance in hell of passing into law AND make a dent in these sorts of things?

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:46 PM

102. It apparently never is the day to discuss gun control laws

Americans would rather bathe in the blood of their children than give up their deadly toys.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:58 PM

105. Grave dancing

Fuck no, it isn't a time to talk about it. I love Obama, and even Republicans are mourning with him.

I stand with the President.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:17 PM

111. the president has class

these children haven't even been buried and it would be crass at best for the potus to bring politics/governmet legislation into this. beyond the pale is what it really be.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:48 PM

112. My God, have some decency!

Let people grieve in peace!

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:58 PM

113. Eff that. Ban them. Let's see how the experiment goes.

If it works, cool. If not, lift the ban. But let's try.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:04 PM

115. Today is not the day

Carney said: today is not the day to engage in the usual Washington policy debates. He believes that day will come but just not today. And he is right. Today is the day we mourn, we pray and we cry....today is the day we stand with the parents and brothers and sisters of the ones that were lost today. Tomorrow is a better day to start the conversation about gun control....but not today.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:23 PM

116. Today was not the day. But I think we will deal with this soon.

Today/tonight was for the families of the children and the adults at that school. Today was for Connecticut to come together and grieve. We are a small state and things that happen here don't seem very far away. I head the shooting during lunch from another teacher (I was subbing in a school in Torrington). We were all in shock.
I know people from Newtown. I have been past that big flag pole in the middle of the town many times. It just cuts too close for most of us here in CT to even deal with political issues right now. But now this tragedy has woken many people up. I doubt this issue will go away any time soon.

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Response to Harry Monroe (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:30 PM

118. First, this will be off the front page by Tuesday

Second, most of the gun nuts and Kool-Aid drinkers WANT Obama to avoid this issue altogether, to avoid pissing off people like the one who kill 26 people yesterday.

Refusing to discuss this is enabling the next shooter (who struck today in Alabama, BTW) and all of the others.

Weak president - very weak. I hope he garners enough votes from the gun nuts to make up for the liberals who he is again ignoring.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #118)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:34 PM

121. Enough votes for what?

In case you missed it he's already been reelected and is prohibited by the Constitution from running again.

However, I realized that him calling for specific legislative measures that he has no chance of getting through Congress would probably do more harm than good by energizing the NRA nuts and causing them to buy more guns and give more money to the NRA. Which will only make another violent shooting more likely and make the NRA more powerful than it already is.

If we had a Congress that would renew the assault weapons ban I would be all for it, but I don't see it happening as long as the teabaggers are in charge. And if the president can't get the legislation passed, he looks hollow calling for it, and all it accomplishes is helping the NRA fundraise.

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Response to democrattotheend (Reply #121)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:08 PM

123. To keep the Senate and get the House in the mid-terms

this constant drum beat about how he might piss off teabaggers is, frankly, sickening. Maybe he should campaign for an abortion ban so the anti-choicers will vote for him too. This line is particularly bizarre and despicable:

Which will only make another violent shooting more likely and make the NRA more powerful than it already is


The next violent shooting, in case you missed it, happened today, without the president "further energizing the NRA", as you so ridiculously put it.

He is a sorry, timid excuse for a Dem, and so are those who want him to remain silent because of possible political ramifications.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #123)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:47 PM

124. It's not about political ramifications

It's about this angry frenzy on the right that I think is contributing to the violence we've seen lately by inspiring more calls to go buy guns and contributing to such a hostile atmosphere nationally. If the president calls for tighter gun control it will do nothing but cause even more of a frenzy and cause more people to go buy guns. I don't want the NRA to be able to gin up more donations and more gun sales by making their members even more afraid that the scary black man is going to take their guns.

I want him to push for gun control legislation if and only if he can drum up enough support for it to pass Congress. Empty calls for more regulations will do nothing but play right into the NRA and the gun industry's hands.

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