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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:02 AM

 

Obama: Pot users not 'top priority'

Source: USA Today

President Obama says the federal government will not target recreational users of marijuana in states that have now legalized pot.

"We've got bigger fish to fry," Obama told Barbara Walters of ABC News, in his first public comments on the topic since Colorado and Washington voter to legalize marijuana on Nov. 6 referendums.

"It would not make sense for us to see a top priority as going after recreational users in states that have determined that it's legal," Obama said.



Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2012/12/14/obama-marijuana-pot-users-colorado-washington/1769013/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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Reply Obama: Pot users not 'top priority' (Original post)
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 OP
Red1 Dec 2012 #1
Iggy Dec 2012 #2
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #4
Iggy Dec 2012 #6
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #21
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #24
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #27
treestar Dec 2012 #73
newspeak Dec 2012 #125
brush Dec 2012 #17
Iggy Dec 2012 #126
brush Dec 2012 #129
Iggy Dec 2012 #141
brush Dec 2012 #143
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #19
antiquie Dec 2012 #25
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #32
antiquie Dec 2012 #35
John2 Dec 2012 #40
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #44
JonLP24 Dec 2012 #108
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #51
loyalsister Dec 2012 #75
think Dec 2012 #47
Uncle Joe Dec 2012 #112
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #61
Roy Rolling Dec 2012 #43
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #63
grantcart Dec 2012 #55
uncle ray Dec 2012 #81
Chakab Dec 2012 #118
grantcart Dec 2012 #124
PerceptionManagement Dec 2012 #140
fredamae Dec 2012 #33
antiquie Dec 2012 #37
fredamae Dec 2012 #39
antiquie Dec 2012 #46
fredamae Dec 2012 #50
Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #122
geologic Dec 2012 #123
fredamae Dec 2012 #130
drm604 Dec 2012 #3
pipoman Dec 2012 #7
drm604 Dec 2012 #11
pipoman Dec 2012 #12
jtuck004 Dec 2012 #15
NNN0LHI Dec 2012 #30
jtuck004 Dec 2012 #103
John2 Dec 2012 #60
musiclawyer Dec 2012 #76
Cayenne Dec 2012 #5
hobbit709 Dec 2012 #8
pipoman Dec 2012 #10
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #31
pipoman Dec 2012 #36
pipoman Dec 2012 #9
Chakab Dec 2012 #13
pipoman Dec 2012 #22
LynneSin Dec 2012 #14
tridim Dec 2012 #48
LynneSin Dec 2012 #106
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #132
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #77
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #86
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #115
Scurrilous Dec 2012 #104
Arkana Dec 2012 #16
pipoman Dec 2012 #20
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #29
Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #78
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #87
blackspade Dec 2012 #18
waddirum Dec 2012 #107
SHRED Dec 2012 #23
fredamae Dec 2012 #45
DefenseLawyer Dec 2012 #54
fredamae Dec 2012 #59
treestar Dec 2012 #71
JonLP24 Dec 2012 #109
treestar Dec 2012 #136
John2 Dec 2012 #68
Garion_55 Dec 2012 #26
forestpath Dec 2012 #28
a2liberal Dec 2012 #34
harmonicon Dec 2012 #49
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #79
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #88
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #133
a2liberal Dec 2012 #137
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #138
a2liberal Dec 2012 #135
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #139
a2liberal Dec 2012 #142
Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #116
Son of Gob Dec 2012 #120
They_Live Dec 2012 #38
Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #41
John2 Dec 2012 #69
Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #70
John2 Dec 2012 #85
RainDog Dec 2012 #121
on point Dec 2012 #42
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #52
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #65
bamacrat Dec 2012 #53
Harriety Dec 2012 #56
Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #58
uncle ray Dec 2012 #92
John2 Dec 2012 #98
uncle ray Dec 2012 #102
green for victory Dec 2012 #117
green for victory Dec 2012 #128
uncle ray Dec 2012 #131
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #134
Safetykitten Dec 2012 #57
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #62
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #64
Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #66
DefenseLawyer Dec 2012 #67
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #80
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #89
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #91
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #94
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #97
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #99
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #100
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #110
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #111
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #113
Enrique Dec 2012 #90
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #93
neffernin Dec 2012 #72
GeorgeGist Dec 2012 #74
Poll_Blind Dec 2012 #83
musiclawyer Dec 2012 #96
Uncle Joe Dec 2012 #114
DreamSmoker Dec 2012 #82
BigDemVoter Dec 2012 #84
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #95
grahamhgreen Dec 2012 #101
TeamPooka Dec 2012 #105
Fearless Dec 2012 #119
sarcasmo Dec 2012 #127

Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:05 AM

1. Cool!!

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Response to Red1 (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:11 AM

2. Uhhhh, Weak, Very Weak

 

What about overall policy change, re: total legalization nationwide??

The fact Obama and the "democrats" in congress refuse to deal honestly and boldly with this festering, stupid, expensive "war on drugs" is more proof there is NO difference between the "two" parties on this major policy issue.

FAIL.

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Response to Iggy (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:17 AM

4. People make the excuse that he has to enforce the law, but he doesn't with DOMA...

 

People being able to choose what they put into their own body is just as important... if not more.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:21 AM

6. And the other Excuse:

 

"he can't do anything to risk getting re-elected".. OK, check that one off the list. let's get to the actual reason why we can't have legal pot.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:33 AM

21. DOMA is different because the President has said it doesn't pass constitutional muster

The President has also concluded that Section 3 of DOMA, as applied to legally married same-sex couples, fails to meet that standard and is therefore unconstitutional.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2011/February/11-ag-222.html

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:39 AM

24. But of course he did defend DOMA for years, and of course DOMA is enforced

unrelentingly. There is no break in enforcment of DOMA. Not one American can marry a same sex spouse and have that marriage respected by the Federal Government. So those are the facts.
As to which is more important, DOMA means lifelong couples are denied thousands of rights others get, including survivor benefits which for many Americans is how they survive old age.
I'm a long term activist on both issues. Give me a choice and it would be end DOMA, because DOMA prevents people from being insured and fed and housed, prevents free movement across borders, it is endless.
And to repeat, no one stopped enforcing DOMA, and the Obama administration did in fact defend it for some time.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:48 AM

27. The Pres said he wouldnt enforce DOMA but DOMA is alive and thriving.

To "not enforce" DOMA means that regulations, policy and procedures would have to be changed. As far as I know, none of this has happened. From what I know federal employees are still completely covered by DOMA. No insurance for same sex spouses.

I am afraid what the Pres told Barbara will be the same. To "not enforce" marijuana use will most likely require a reduction in personnel in the states affected. Unless he tells Holder to reassign personnel, I doubt that anything will change.

The above is based on my limited knowledge. If anyone has better info, please let me know.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:24 AM

73. What excuse - if something is against the law, he can enforce it

Or not, as he is NOT with some immigration laws. And he gets to make the priorities.

As a Democrat, he's probably more merciful on laws like this than any Republican would be.

He also has the option of enforcing in those states that made it legal, to let the courts determine state/federal power over the issue.



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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:40 PM

125. i remember my environmental science professor

saying they can enact all kinds of protection laws, but if they don't fund it or police it, it doesn't exist. so, let's hope the feds back down on the states that voted for legalization.

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Response to Iggy (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:22 AM

17. Good move

It's like the President said, there are bigger fish to fry. Things are moving in the right direction as far as legalization, and quite frankly, he's the President of the freakin' United States, I want him working on fixing the debt crisis, sequestration, Israel, Palestine, Syria, the economy, etc., etc., etc and not worrying about whether somebody gets busted for smoking or growing dope. JESUS CHRIST!

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Response to brush (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:07 PM

126. WHAT Fish I Wonder????

 

the fiscal BLUFF?

It's painfully obvious Obama is a linear thinker... he and the rest of the "democrats" are incapable of multi- tasking.

WEAK.



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Response to Iggy (Reply #126)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:12 AM

129. Put down the weed and clear your mind

Whether weed is legal or not is not the most important thing in world. Isn't it time you kinda out grew it, anyway?

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Response to brush (Reply #129)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:44 AM

141. Weak But Typical Response

 

BTW: I don't smoke pot. but of course if you're in total denial regarding Obama's and congress' total inability to multitask-- then that is what you make a big deal out of.

Pot should be LEGAL, period. idiot "democrats" in congress refuse to admit that opiod drug abuse in our nation kills around 15,000 people per year now (these are legal drugs) while pot kills what? ZERO people per year. so why is it illegal?? please answer the question.

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Response to Iggy (Reply #141)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:14 AM

143. If you don't smoke it, why is it so important to you?

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Response to Iggy (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:29 AM

19. The remedy there lies with the legislative branch, not the executive branch

The President must enforce all laws enacted by congress unless he has a constitutional reason not to do so. The very best he can do is say certain laws aren't a priority, which is what he did.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:40 AM

25. Just reschedule it.

He has that power.
And in California the Feds have been very busy undermining the will of the people.

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Response to antiquie (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:03 AM

32. Easier said than done

With no federal law against marijuana, you've just handcuffed federal prosecutors' abilities to prosecute drug kingpins. If the idea is to establish legal and taxable sources for MJ, opening the flood gates is not the way to do it.

This article explains the options available to Obama, and how he is perusing those options. The very best way is to have the federal legislative branch fully on board, and they just aren't.

http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2012/11/13/what-obama-and-the-feds-will-do-about-washington-and-colorado-legalization-expert-analysis/

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #32)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:21 AM

35. Article scratched the surface

especially regarding rescheduling. What, he won't do it because of race? We have heard the low-priority crap before -- before he had the Feds close down California to patients.

Others are more expert than me, so I leave you with this:

In a recent Rolling Stone interview, Obama provided a factually wrong answer that radically distorted the nature of federal law in an attempt to deflect criticism for the federal crackdown on medical marijuana. Obama claimed he “can’t nullify Congressional law” when it comes to medical marijuana, even though the Controlled Substance Act actually gives the Executive branch the authority to “reschedule” (reclassify) marijuana without Congressional action. By simply moving marijuana to a lower schedule the Obama administration could make medical marijuana legal under federal law. Obama would not need to nullify this Congressional law, because Congress already gave him the authority to change marijuana’s legal status.

It is very important that Attorney General Holder himself admits that Obama’s “can’t nullify Congressional law” statement is completely misleading, because the relevant section of the Controlled Substance Act specifically gives him, the Attorney General, the power to implement a process to reschedule cannabis administratively.

Even Obama’s Attorney General admits there is nothing forcing the administration to wage a war on medical marijuana and nothing stopping the administration from making medical marijuana legal under federal law. This is an active choice the administration is making.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #32)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:32 AM

40. I know

 

people keep targeting the Executive Branch, but don't get out there and target those stupid neantherthals they sent to Congress. They made the law. mot the Executive Branch. This is the first President that I have heard said it wasn't the top priority. They attack an Ally, while the real enemy responsible for the stupid law made it. They also pressure the Executive Branch to enforce it. Keep biting the hand that is trying to help you. It makes no sense.

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Response to John2 (Reply #40)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:40 AM

44. Regardless of what he can or can't do...

There are pitfalls to perusing extreme options. Personally I'd be overjoyed if MJ were fully legalized everywhere today even though I have no intention of using the stuff myself, but I don't think it's as simple of an issue as some believe it is. Jeremy Daw gives a pretty informed view of the challenges involved and it's not to hard to figure out what side he's in favor.

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Response to John2 (Reply #40)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:27 PM

108. The executive branch actually did make the law

Congress did pass the Controlled Substances Act that made scheduling possible but the responsibility was up to the executive branch to determine what should be scheduled what, if at all. The DEA and HHS can initiate rescheduling of any substances.
The National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse was formed, which Nixon ignored its findings when it came to scheduling. He is responsible for current federal laws regarding to cannabis.

I have no problems holding all branches responsible in regards to active policy which both show no real interest in changing.

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Response to antiquie (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:53 AM

51. You're asking the President to go farther than any other state has gone

Even Washington and Oregon haven't fully legalized MJ to the extent you're suggesting Obama should pursue, and you're ignoring the political ramifications involved. The inevitable result of such action would mean some states would take an even more hard line stance against MJ and beat Obama over the head for nullifying "states' rights". Now suddenly Obama is thrust into the middle of a political quagmire that he can't possibly hope to solve alone, yet would inevitably consume an inordinate amount of his time. Sometimes the actions you think make the most sense don't produce the outcome you would have preferred.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #51)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:41 AM

75. MJ was decriminalized in Columbia MO

What followed were a state legislative initiatives to essentially isolate the city and cut off funding for the University. They didn't succeed, but they spent at least 2 legislative sessions on it. During those sessions there were a lot of things that went ignored.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:46 AM

47. Agree. And Obama's response may be a bigger deal than what the headline infers

From the article:


"This is a tough problem, because Congress has not yet changed the law," Obama said. "I head up the executive branch; we're supposed to be carrying out laws. And so what we're going to need to have is a conversation about, how do you reconcile a federal law that still says marijuana is a federal offense and state laws that say that it's legal?"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2012/12/14/obama-marijuana-pot-users-colorado-washington/1769013/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


This clears the way for Senator Leahy to have it brought up in the senate so congress can change the law and the assumption one can make from this article is that Obama administration would comply with the changes in the law.

Senate Judiciary chair floats federal marijuana legalization
By Stephen C. Webster
Thursday, December 13, 2012 13:43 EST


....“What assurance can and will the administration give to state officials involved in licensing of marijuana retailers that they will not face Federal criminal penalties for carrying out the duties assigned to them under state law?”

The answer, he suggested, may be that Congress must exercise one of its “legislative options,” like amending the law “to allow possession of up to one ounce of marijuana, at least in jurisdictions where it is legal under state law.”

“In order to give these options full consideration, the Committee needs to understand how the administration intends to respond to the decision of the voters in Colorado and Washington,” he concluded. “I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this matter.”....

Raw Story (http://s.tt/1wRep)

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Response to think (Reply #47)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:44 PM

112. I agree,

Obama is pursuing the right strategy in letting the Congress take the lead.

I am 100% for legalization of cannabis and possibly other drugs.

The War on Drugs has ruined far too many lives and destroyed too many families.

The preeminent emphasis on drug abuse should be medical and not draconian laws designed to rape the Bill of Rights and criminalize the American People.

I believe Obama's approach increases the chances of a new constructive, functional, just and sane drug law being passed especially in regards to cannabis legalization, Lord knows it's long overdue.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:41 AM

61. Would that include laws against torture?

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Response to Iggy (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:36 AM

43. Yes, very weak. But . . .

It is a more effective route to legalization than being a president with a moral crusade. Every Republican president for decades has been a moral crusader for choice issues but has had zero effect. Once state governors started making changes, laws changed.

Similarly, Obama could smoke a joint in the Oval Office and dance to Phish but it is less effective than Colorado and Washington passing laws and him agreeing to allow them latitude.

Yeah, it's weak on the surface, but strong in it's subtlety.

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Response to Roy Rolling (Reply #43)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:42 AM

63. Congress has to change the law. The Exec. is powerless; it enforces the law!

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Response to Iggy (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:16 AM

55. if you think this is a "Major Policy Issue" then you need a serious reordering of policy issues.



Glad to see it normalized but we are facing a historic opportunity to significantly reduce the defense budget, millilons of people who are facing long term unemployment, millions more who are working and still living in dire poverty.

Recreational toking doesn't rank in the top 20.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #55)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:06 PM

81. it is always one of the top questions people try to present the President.

the issue is "different" from budget concerns and unemployment, etc. but is very real and major to a lot of people. Amendment 64 passed in CO 55% to 45%. that is landslide territory by any election standard. at least in Colorado, it is clear that an overwhelming % of the population would prefer it be legalized.

besides, rarely have politicians been held to a standard that says they must deal with major policy issues in their order of importance. smaller issues are dealt with all the time while debate and negotiations happen on the major issues. it's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #55)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:12 PM

118. You realize that there are

hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens being warehoused prisons and millions of people who've passed through the criminal justice system for "recreational toking?" Do you know how much time, money and resources are wasted maintaining the prison industrial complex? Do you know how many lives are destroyed and how much productivity is lost because of a harmless plant and this ridiculous prohibition?

If you don't think that the so-called war on drugs is a major policy issue, then I don't know what kind of Liberal you are.

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Response to Chakab (Reply #118)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:20 PM

124. I am a liberal whose niece died because of the shame of aids in a third world country


I am a liberal who knows that there are millions of people who are living in refugee camps tonight all over the world (and spent a decade in those camps) because of things that they couldn't control

So I could go through a list of millions of Africans who are suffering from communicable diseases in an era where all of the communicable diseases that inhabit the white part of the world have been eliminated.

I have seen people with leprosy and people with elephantitis.

I live in a country where there is a permanent structural unemployment for about 1 out of every 3 AA men in affected cities.

I live in a country where millions of parents go to bed at night hoping that their children are not going to have to go to see a doctor because their cough is getting worse.

In CA and many other states all you have to do if you want to smoke is pay the token fee and get the prescription and you have a ticket for recreational smoking. Law enforcement in CA doesn't prosecute anyone for simply smoking grass. \

If you live in a state that is aggressively prosecuting simple possession for smoking (and frankly I don't know any that do) then either move to another state or don't smoke.

You live in an antisceptic world of the self indulgent. The way to normalize MJ is to do it at the state level where it is progressing rather quickly. Anybody who thinks that the President should waste his capital on this has a very narrow and shallow view of a world that has many many life threatening problems that affect tens of millions. You aren't interested in anyone in some facility, you want to be able to indulge your own particular hobby and that is not a major policy challenge for the President of the US.

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Response to Iggy (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:32 AM

140. nor is Bankster reform, gun control, climate change, republican obstructionism, big oil subsudies...

super pacs, corporate welfare, corporate tax evasion, tax reform for the rest of us, drone assassinations, endless war, endless domestic spying, corporate news monopolies, utility monopolies (think cox cable, At&t), the FED...

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Response to Red1 (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:09 AM

33. The Common Theme Amongst Many

State Lawmakers in the aftermath of CO & WA State's move to legalize is to "wait and see what the feds do" before taking actions themselves toward legalization at the legislative level....

The way I see it--POTUS is now stepping back to see if We meant what We said about Responsible Personal Use.
Hopefully WE are ready to put Our money where Our mouths are.........and not blow it.(pun may or may not be applied here at your own discression"

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Response to fredamae (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:22 AM

37. May it work out better for you than in California. nt

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Response to antiquie (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:27 AM

39. A Big part of CA Problems

and a not widely understood fact is that Gov Pete Wilson, in spite of Prop 215 passing--Never Signed The Bill Into Law! So it is a "murkey" at best situation w/the state vs feds.

And Oregon failed to pass M80---not because the people don't want to legalize but because it was a shitty bill. There was another initiative that failed to get enough signatures to qualify for the ballot that likely Could have passed as it was a much better bill...so on we go alongside CA

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Response to fredamae (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:46 AM

46. Never heard your Pete Wilson argument before.

Agree with the murky state/fed.

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Response to antiquie (Reply #46)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:53 AM

50. A friend of mine who

was an activist in CA at the time--watched this all happen. According to my friend: Gov Wilson had greater political plans and believed he would appear soft on drugs to his GOP base--so he refused to sign it because he "objected" to the people will.

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Response to fredamae (Reply #50)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:52 PM

122. And our Attorney General at the time

who was recently unseated Congressman Dan Lungren said when 215 passed "I don't recognize that law because the voters were tricked."

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Response to fredamae (Reply #50)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:42 PM

123. "A friend of mine who

was an activist in CA at the time watched this all happen. According to my friend: Gov Wilson had greater political plans and believed he would appear soft on drugs to his GOP base--so he refused to sign it because he "objected" to the people will."

------------------

What's Wilson have to do with it???

California Senate Bill 420 was signed by Governor Gray Davis in 2003 "pursuant to the powers reserved to the State of California and its people under the Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution." It clarified the scope and application of California Proposition 215 , and established the California medical marijuana program.

Proposition 215, The Compassionate Use Act of 1996, was enacted by means of the initiative process,
and passed with 5,382,915 (55.6%) votes in favor and 4,301,960 (44.4%) against.

Unless it is written otherwise,
a proposition becomes law the day after an election if it receives a straight majority of votes...

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Response to geologic (Reply #123)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:46 AM

130. Thank you for the info n/t

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:12 AM

3. This is politically smart.

Whether or not the feds will target users in those states will depend on who's in the White House. That could motivate people to support and vote for Democratic candidates.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:40 AM

7. Or not..

We have a Democratic President who is at a crossroad. If he chooses to simply ignore it and leave it to a future administration, it's almost worse than actually having a making policy decision. I believe that the tide has turned on the silly war on drugs. Most people realize the monumental waste of time, money and human resources this fiasco has been. If he decided to actually push for federal deregulation of pot, taking it out of the federal criminal code, even if he wasn't able to get it done, next time there is a platform Dems could add deregulation to it. I believe the party would get support from many who are otherwise fence sitters/swing voters.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:51 AM

11. It's smarter than going after the users.

What would you have him do? He's not a dictator. He can't unilaterally change federal law. Until congress decides to change it (good luck with that) this would seem to be the best that he can do.

The tide is changing on this. As other states see that the feds won't cause trouble about it, they'll consider legalization. Eventually the pressure on the federal legislatures will be enough.

Don't criticize the man for moving in the right direction.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:55 AM

12. The Feds have never gone after users..

no change what-so-ever in Federal policy is what he said.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:16 AM

15. This was in the NY Times just a week ago


But at the same time, senior White House and Justice Department officials were considering plans for legal action against Colorado and Washington that could undermine the voter-approved initiatives in those states.

Here.

Why resolve it when you can talk out of both side of your government? Keeps people from wondering where the jobs are, I gues.


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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:51 AM

30. I already know where the jobs are/went because my job was off shored 30 years ago

I just look at all the imported cars in my neighbors driveway and that question is answered.

That is where our SS and Medicare went too. The workers building those imported cars don't contribute one dime into those social programs to keep them solvent.

Don

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Response to NNN0LHI (Reply #30)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:34 PM

103. Certainly. Abraham Lincoln said back then that in order to resolve a conflict put the

man before the dollar. 'Course, then the 'pubs took a hike from any of that sort of thinking, Dems picked it up for awhile, now it seems like a quaint idea from the past.

Ironic. People act like they have forgotten where the real value is, and then wonder why they are no longer valued themselves.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:38 AM

60. No, I think

 

he needs you to take the fight to Congress and the Courts, like the Gay movement is doing. That is why they are further along. Challenge the evidence, why Congress made this a level one drug. It is weak why they did in the first place. Put your experts against theirs. You didn't have that evidence decades ago when Congress put up up their weak evidence. Once you destroy their evidence in Court, then their reasons fall a part. No one has over dosed on marijuana like any other dangerous narcotic period. The evidence about addiction is weak at best, that with it, you can make a glass of milk illegal. People are just using the wrong strategy. When it was first made a level one drug, one of the myths, was it had no useful purpose at all, but now we know that was false. It is useful for medical reasons. Just methodologically, attack the evidence on the merits, until it all falls apart. That is how the Gay movement used their strategy. Congress will have to defend it. That is what the president needs from you. It doesn't have to take the President to do this. The President can have more support and not be placed, out there alone, to fight that fight. It would be politically unwise. The Gay movement gave him a lot of help to make a political move, and especially with the kind of obstruction, Congress can present. Attack Congress directly and let them defend their position.

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Response to John2 (Reply #60)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:54 AM

76. This. With a twist

What you say is true and supports my prediction that the US Attorneys and DEA won't do anything in CO and WA without proof that weed is being sold across state lines or used on fed property. Why? Because they can't. They can't end up in court. They fear that most of all because they have no evidence to support the current scheduling. In fact they will be buried by a mountain of evidence to the contrary. I've said it myriad times here . " POTUS will not die on this hill "
CO and WA just need to play their cards right, make no dumb regulations and two years from now other states will see this is no big deal. In four years the entire west coast is on board. WOD is dead man walking .

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:18 AM

5. Selective enforcement

Those pinched in no-dope states will rightly complain of selective enforcement.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:47 AM

8. I'll believe that when I see it happen.

Just like the raids and harassment of the dispensaries.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:51 AM

10. He didn't say anything about growers or dispensaries..

the feds have never busted mere users, they have left that to the states..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:52 AM

31. That is a moot distiction. Oregon's medical marijuna law requires each patient

to have a designated grower to provide the medicine. Thus, going after a grower is the same as going after a patient AND the patient's medicine, the only source legal under State law. So, if you arrest the grower who is providing medicine to a chemo patient that patient will no longer have that medicine available legally.
When he ran for the nomination he said many things you claim he did not. From his interview with Willamettte Weekly:
"Would you stop the DEA's raids on Oregon medical marijuana growers?"

His reply: "I would, because I think our federal agents have better things to do, like catching criminals and preventing terrorism." May 14, 2008
http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-9003-six_minutes_with_barack.html

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:21 AM

36. No, it's not the same at all..

going after a grower, even a legal one in a given state, can result in several years in federal prison for the grower...the user merely is inconvenienced with having to find another source.

Except he has busted dispensaries operating legally under CA law. No, this was a very careful answer meaning he isn't changing anything. The Obama administration has made it crystal clear that they consider growers and dispensaries criminal.

Bottom line, if he means what you are claiming he means why doesn't he say so instead of sidestepping by talking nonsense about the feds not going after users? Something the feds have never done in the first place.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:50 AM

9. So, in other words, no change at all

maintaining status quo.

"It would not make sense for us to see a top priority as going after recreational users in states that have determined that it's legal," Obama said.

The Feds have never gone after users. Frankly, I don't believe there is a Federal law about users beyond airport security etc., and even then they usually turn non-traffickers to local/state leos.

No, this is just another inaction at a monumental moment in history. It is a mistake not to be the administration who proactively dismantles the Raygun War on Drugs..what a legacy opportunity dismissed..

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:02 AM

13. Yeah, right.

I'll believe him when the DEA stops raiding dispensaries (which also claimed that he wouldn't do) and he gets rid of that wingnut that he picked to run the agency.

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Response to Chakab (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:35 AM

22. Notice he didn't mention growers or dispensaries?

only users who the feds have never targeted anyway.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:03 AM

14. Folks, this is how it started with Obama and his opinion about marriage equality

My guess is by the end of his term the prohibition will be done.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:48 AM

48. The pessimists don't care.

They will complain even after the admin reschedules Cannabis and ends federal prohibition... Before 2014 BTW.

In the mean time they will continue to complain, loudly and often, while the rest of us actively fight for liberty instead of giving up in the middle of the fight. It's pathetic.

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Response to tridim (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:07 PM

106. If it's not done by 2014 election I suspect it could be a tool used by the GOP

The GOP recognizes that they don't have a leg to stand on with the voters. If a popular democrat runs for office like Hillary Clinton, then Cannabis might become the new cause-de-joir for the GOP.

Think about it - it would help popularize them with a new group of people including those who suffer from cancer AND the youth. Plus they wouldn't have to change their stances in regards to the wealthy, women, minorities or LBGT. In fact they could still belittle women, minorities and the LBGT and STILL get their vote just by supporting the end to Cannabis legalization.

Obama and the democrats are going to wise up to that and hopefully make it their issue.

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Response to tridim (Reply #48)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:48 PM

132. Nice gratuitous attack. n/t

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:59 AM

77. You are ruining the manufactured outrage!!!

Obama said something that appears positive .... so clearly, that is simply part of his secret plan to send those who smoke pot to GITMO. But he can't say that.

You need a secret Obama outrage decoder ring to really understand his evil plan.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #77)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:19 PM

86. I mean, why even vote for Obama if they don't have faith in anything he says or does?

Might as welll have Romney for president.

Really, the constant whining is really annoying!

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #86)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:20 PM

115. I keep asking Obama's most ardent critics to start a Progressive Prez 2016 Group on DU.

I've been asking them to do so for about 2 years or so ... still nothing.

Go figure.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:36 PM

104. Agreed.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:20 AM

16. Good. Can we please stop talking about how

Obama is going to throw every weed user in prison now?

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Response to Arkana (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:33 AM

20. Maybe when he states that

they are not going to interfere with sellers and growers acting in accord with state laws. Until then, there is no change in policy.

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Response to Arkana (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:50 AM

29. Sure, because we know what he tells Barbara Walters is as good as gold. nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:02 PM

78. History's greatest liar, right

?

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #78)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:20 PM

87. Pres Barack Obama is not a liar. nm

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:22 AM

18. Now if Holder will only direct his staff to follow the PONTUS.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:12 PM

107. cool name

That is like a combination of Pontiff and President.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:37 AM

23. Then why is it still listed as a Schedule 1 narcotic??



That is what I would ask the President in response.


-

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Response to SHRED (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:44 AM

45. POTUS Cannot Change The CSA

That is up to Congress--and We, the people to Make them De-Schedule This Plant off of All CSA considerations.

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Response to fredamae (Reply #45)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:11 AM

54. Actually the DEA can reschedule marijuana under the CSA without an act of congress at any time.

The Controlled Substances Act provides for a rulemaking process by which the United States Attorney General can reschedule cannabis administratively. The notion from apologists for the administration that "their hands are tied" is utter nonsense.

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #54)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:31 AM

59. I did not know that

I have always been told it is up to congress and only congress. Mis communication.
So if the DEA can Re-schedule--can they completely DE-schedule? Or would that be up to congress? Or do we need both the DEA and congress? Or can congress alone De-schedule And repeal Cannabis Prohibition?
(Sorry for all the q's)

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #54)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:22 AM

71. Is there proof of that allegation?

Many of these legal claims could be risky. We still have people claiming the the 14th Amendment could easily be used to avoid the debt ceiling legislation. Yet it's never been done before.

And if it can be done, there may be reasons why it's not a top priority.

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Response to treestar (Reply #71)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:44 PM

109. Substances can be rescheduled by either

Overview at wiki which I'm posting as it has the most complete information while various sources have bits and pieces. There are sources at wiki for what is posted.

(Process for rescheduling or removal)
Cannabis could be rescheduled either legislatively, through Congress, or through the executive branch. Congress has so far rejected all bills to reschedule cannabis. However, it is not unheard of for Congress to intervene in the drug scheduling process; in February 2000, for instance, the 105th Congress, in its second official session, passed Public Law 106-172, also known as the Hillory J. Farias and Samantha Reed Date-Rape Drug Prohibition Act of 2000, adding GHB to Schedule I. On June 23, 2011, Rep. Barney Frank and Rep. Ron Paul introduced H.R. 2306, legislation that would completely remove cannabis from the federal schedules, limiting the federal government's role to policing cross-border or interstate transfers into states where it remains illegal.

The Controlled Substances Act also provides for a rulemaking process by which the United States Attorney General can reschedule cannabis administratively. These proceedings represent the only means of legalizing medical cannabis without an act of Congress. Rescheduling supporters have often cited the lengthy petition review process as a reason why cannabis is still illegal. The first petition took 22 years to review, and the second took 7 years. In 2002, the Coalition for Rescheduling Cannabis filed a third petition.

Rulemaking proceedings
Stages in rescheduling proceedings

Filing of Petition with DEA
Acceptance of Petition by DEA
Initial Review by DEA
Referral to HHS
Scientific and Medical Evaluation by HHS
HHS Report to DEA
Evaluation of Additional Information by DEA
Publication of DEA Decision
(Judicial review by the U.S. Court of Appeals)
(Public Hearing on Disputed Matters of Fact)

The United States Code, under Section 811 of Title 21, sets out a process by which cannabis could be administratively transferred to a less-restrictive category or removed from Controlled Substances Act regulation altogether. The Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) evaluates petitions to reschedule cannabis. However, the Controlled Substances Act gives the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), as successor agency of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, great power over rescheduling decisions.

After the DEA accepts the filing of a petition, the agency must request from the HHS Secretary "a scientific and medical evaluation, and his recommendations, as to whether such drug or other substance should be so controlled or removed as a controlled substance." The Secretary's findings on scientific and medical issues are binding on the DEA. The HHS Secretary can even unilaterally legalize cannabis: "f the Secretary recommends that a drug or other substance not be controlled, the Attorney General shall not control the drug or other substance." 21 U.S.C. § 811b.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Removal_of_cannabis_from_Schedule_I_of_the_Controlled_Substances_Act

If you want to petition to have removal or rescheduling, you have to file it to the DEA which is part of the executive branch. The HHS also reviews who is also part of the executive branch. If the executive branch can't do shit, why do they have responsibility over the rulemaking process?

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #109)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:02 PM

136. Thank you

I am thinking they might not bother too, because they might know Congress might pass a bill overriding that decision. At least that is possible.

Then there would be political fallout as the M$M starts up on Obama legalizes Weed! Obama enables Druggies. We know how the M$M would handle it.

There could be many reasons other than sheer meanness towards pot smokers, which is what many here seem to want us to conclude.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:56 AM

68. And the President

 

would probably respond to you, ask your Congress. They legislate, I only carry out their laws. Have you ever asked your Congress person?

Furthermore, if I was arrested for selling medical marijuana in court, I would plea not guilty, if accused of selling what Congress describes as a level one drug by their definition. That gets you into battling experts. If Congresses experts cannot prove it in court, then their case began to fall a part. I'll give you a hypothetical, the DOJ would represent the government in Court, and would have to defend their definition of Pot. If the DOJ can't defend Congresses label, then it will eventually be left up to Congress to Defend their Law. That is how DOMA began ned to fall apart.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:46 AM

26. lame

its not 'top priority' but doesnt mean its still not 'a priority'

how about 'not only am i not going after these states (forget users, the feds wouldnt go after them anyway they would bully the states to do it), but I am going to work to reverse 30 years of draconian illogical drug policy starting with pot, the people have spoken and im listening'


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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:48 AM

28. Maybe he should inform his DOJ.

 

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:11 AM

34. That sounds familiar

Didn't he say that 4 years ago about medical marijuana and then proceed to crack down on dispensaries? Somehow, I'm not trusting this... Especially since he is just saying things instead of reclassifying like he could.

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Response to a2liberal (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:52 AM

49. My thoughts exactly (nt)

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Response to a2liberal (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:04 PM

79. Sounds similar to DADT to me.

Obama was never, never, never ever going to end that. Folks demanded he do some quick fix. Instead he took a path that ensured that when it ended, it wasn't coming back.

Medical MJ is probably on a similar trajectory. Change the laws and get rid of the prohibitions in a manner that ensures they don't come back. Won't be the "quick fix" many want ... because the next GOP President would then simply undo whatever Obama did.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #79)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:20 PM

88. They don't care about that. They need something to whine and moan about.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #88)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:54 PM

133. The main whining and moaning seems to be coming from you.

Slamming your fellow DUers.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #133)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:03 PM

137. The truth stings (n/t)

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #133)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:46 PM

138. Nope. Only those who whine and complain. ;)

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #79)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:02 PM

135. Then why make promises

that you're not going to keep? Just say "I'm going to keep the raids going but work to change the law"

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Response to a2liberal (Reply #135)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:42 PM

139. How do you know he won't keep those promises?

He said he was not going to make prosecutions in these states a high priority.

Is he lying?

I mean, if that's what you think, he lying ... say that. Make a PREDICTION of what he'll do next.

Predict that his DOJ will go after these states HARD (which some are predicting).

Lacking that, you are not saying much.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #139)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:51 PM

142. I was talking about the earlier promises

of not raising MMJ dispensaries in states which had approved MMJ. Which were quickly followed by an increase in raids on dispensaries. You claimed that he wanted to fix the problem legislatively. I asked why he wouldn't have just said that instead of promising not to raid and them following up with raids. Anyways, I'm done here... I've made my point and am not interested in a disingenuous back and forth.

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Response to a2liberal (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:26 PM

116. The feds haven't gone after users of MM. They have gone after the sellers

I suspect this will continue in CO and WA for anyone foolish to sell out in the open.

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Response to a2liberal (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:41 PM

120. It was a real crack down wasn't it?

In Denver, if you want to find a medical marijuana dispensary, just look for the green cross. You won't have to go far. There are 204 of them in the Mile High City -- that's roughly three times the number of Starbucks and McDonald's combined.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57536827/medical-marijuana-will-colorados-green-rush-last/


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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:23 AM

38. mmmm Fried Fish...

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:34 AM

41. He could always show his sincerity

and goodwill by rescheduling it to a II or III, or better yet, removing it altogether. And just in case there are still people out there who are unaware of this fact, it was Nixon who talked Congress into giving the President the power to assign scheduling (in addition to the FDA) and, since cannabis was assigned the Schedule I designation by a president (Nixon) a president can re-assign it. However, since Obama is just so damned cozy with big pharma and big insurance (see Obamacare and the LACK of single payer), I don't see this in his or our future.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #41)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:04 AM

69. Give me the source and link where you got this information

 

, sir?

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Response to John2 (Reply #69)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:20 AM

70. That would be m'am

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #70)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:19 PM

85. I apologize,

 

and thank you for the information. I have gotten deeper in this issue about Pot more and more. I do understand history and the Constitution also. The more and more, how I found this became illegal, I find the evidence making this illegal more and more on weak grounds. Your information has helped even more, and I'm convinced of the course that I recommend even more so.

I also found more information on Nixon's decision, and we know how Nixon turned out. There is information here, that Nixon actually had a National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse and ignored the results of it in the 1970s. He did it for political reasons and the environment at the time on Drugs. The source claims, Nixon's own Commission found the Constitutionality of cannabis Prohibition was suspect and the executive and legislative branches had a responsibility to obey the Constitution. The Commission then went on to even recommend the possession of small amounts of marijuana for personal use in privacy, decriminalized. They also recommended in cases of public use that it be fined the same as Alcohol and the same with heavy users, that will cause harm to public safety, such as working under the influence or driving. Nixon chose to hide the results. That is the part people should pursue, the same as DOMA. Marijuana has simply been mis characterized for political purposes.

The case when it did get to the U.S. Supreme Court on medical marijuana use, which was bought by a Californian citizen. She agreed with the Court on the constitutional issue of Congress ability to enact laws to criminalize the plant. Her lawyers conceded the issue to the Court. If they did not concede the issue to the Court, then Constitutional issues for Congress to legislate criminality would have been debated. That Commission that Nixon secretly with held would have been evidence before the Court. I think that is what the President maybe hinting. They are going at the Constitutional issue wrong in the courts. And way back in the 1800s, congress and state legislatures were labeling cannabis as poison. They did this because of political reasons involving money and on racial terms such as stereotyping groups of people. This was very popular with Mexicans back in the Day and probably among native Americans. I don't know what they were smoking in those peace pipes but it was something good.

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Response to John2 (Reply #85)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:52 PM

121. Schaffer's Online has a lot of source documents

It's a great resource to read about actual rulings and events related to cannabis and other things.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/

One part I especially love is LaGuardia's campaign against prohibition of alcohol back in the day. As mayor, he actively worked against Federal law - prohibition essentially came down to an issue of rural Protestant Democrats vs. urban Catholic Democrats during the 1930s.

The rural Protestant Democrats were also aligned with the KKK. FDR rose to the presidency with the backing of urban Catholic Democrats with the understanding that he would use his power to oppose prohibition. A week after taking office he did just that.

LaGuardia also did not believe Anslinger's lies about marijuana when Anslinger and others were trying to find a way to make themselves relevant after prohibition.

LaGuardia made sure studies that looked into Ansligner's claims were investigated - and, way back then, long before the current continuing b.s., those studies indicated the Feds were lying about marijuana - long before marijuana entered the middle-class consciousness via jazz and beat literature.

Nixon, etc. put cannabis on the drug schedule and kept it there IN SPITE OF the recommendations of the man Nixon appointed to head up a DEA investigation... that man was Frank Schaffer.

Just as with Anslinger, who argued against marijuana by claiming it made blacks think they are equal to whites and used this prejudice to convince white America, Nixon used bogus medical arguments to support criminal sanctions against mj b/c users during his time were also those who were most often on his "Enemies List."

Iow, prohibition of cannabis has ALWAYS been a political issue, not a health or criminal one.

Prohibition of cannabis, when it first occurred, and now, is used to oppress the poor, Latinos, African-Americans and the political left.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:34 AM

42. Pure Waffle. So call off the dogs in Calif then! Or better yet save some money and legalize it!

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:02 AM

52. half measure.

Marijuana should be de-scheduled, or at least rescheduled down to V and available over the counter at your local pharmacy.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #52)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:51 AM

65. He a master at straddling and triangulating

He should take a firm stance not only on this issue (a boondoggle of public health, public safety, and expense), but on same on same-sex marriage and SP health care. The only civil right issue he seems to take a firm stance on is guns, where he is 100% behind the NRA, who hates his guts.

Sadly his political model is Bill Clinton instead of FDR.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:03 AM

53. Tell Holder and the DEA that. n/t

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:17 AM

56. It's OK for him to have this approach right now. I agree that he does have bigger fish to fry.

Someday it will be a top priority, I'd hope so anyway, but there is so many things that need addressing right now and the extremists on the Right make it hard to get anything done that should be done.

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Response to Harriety (Reply #56)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:25 AM

58. I'm not sure you'd be saying that

if it was your 18-year-old who just got sentenced to 10 years in prison for possessing a quarter ounce of pot (see mandatory sentencing). This goes double if you're a minority. Multiply that by the number of pot convictions over the years which is easily in the millions. Millions of people being denied their freedom and their lives devastated for . . . a plant. A benign plant. Now we're talking human rights violations. I don't know about you but Human Rights Violations are pretty much up there on the top of my list.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #58)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:31 PM

92. that will not go away overnight even if the feds flat out legalized it tomorrow.

no matter what happens, you will see local authorities continue to enforce their laws. CO voters passed a constitutional amendment to guarantee the RIGHT to possess, grow, etc. it would take an amendment to the US Constitution to guarantee one could safely possess or consume nationwide. i don't see that happening for some time.

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Response to uncle ray (Reply #92)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:44 PM

98. I don't

 

think this is the case with the research I'm coming up with on this issue. The Constitutionality has not even been tested, according to Nixon's own Commission apparently, it was suspect.

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Response to John2 (Reply #98)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:21 PM

102. i'm not sure what law you're talking about.

pot's classification? even if it changed, even if today Obama had said that in the eyes of the feds, Pot is A-OK now, we'd still have a web of local laws banning its use, just like we still have draconian laws against fireworks, sex or alcohol in some areas of the country.

it seems Obama is making it very clear that when it comes to pot, he will back whatever an individual state wants, so it is up to voters to put the pressure on their local pols to get their laws changed.

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Response to uncle ray (Reply #102)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:37 PM

117. Great! He can start by ordering this case dismissed:

 

it seems Obama is making it very clear that when it comes to pot, he will back whatever an individual state wants,

Harborside Health Center

"Oakland's latest round in its campaign to save the nation's largest medical marijuana dispensary includes a statement this week from Mayor Jean Quan saying federal prosecutors should back off, and the federal government's own patent application lauding the therapeutic qualities of cannabis.

...U.S. Attorney Melinda Haag filed suit in July seeking the closure of Harborside and the forfeiture of its offices at 1840 Embarcadero. She said the dispensary, which supplies marijuana to 108,000 patients, is violating federal drug laws.

On Dec. 20, U.S. Magistrate Maria Elena James is scheduled to consider a request by the building's owner, Ana Chretien, to shut down the dispensary and Oakland's request to put Chretien's motion on hold until James rules on the city's challenge to the government's suit. Oakland claims the federal statute of limitations required the government to seek forfeiture no later than 2011, five years after Harborside opened....

http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Oakland-cites-surprise-medical-pot-backer-4113767.php

maybe he'll call these doggies off too:

"Over the past year, Haag and California's three other federal prosecutors have brought similar actions against landlords throughout the state that lease space to dispensaries, most of which have been evicted or closed on their own...">>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/11/harborside-health-center-lawsuit_n_1956670.html

Think I should hold my breath?

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Response to uncle ray (Reply #102)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:05 AM

128. and these: Pending Cases in California and Elsewhere-canorml.org

 

Pending Cases in California and Elsewhere
http://www.canorml.org/costs/federal_medical_marijuana_prisoners_and_cases

October 11, 2012 - OAKLAND SUES FEDS WHILE LONG BEACH RAIDS 7 DISPENSARIES
In contrasting moves, the city of Oakland has sued the federal government to stop its forfeiture actions against city-regulated dispensaries, while Long Beach has joined the feds to arrest 40 dispensary workers and is threatening to arrest more.

October 12, 2012 - Aaron Sandusky, whose G3 Holistic collective had storefronts in Upland, Colton and Moreno Valley, was found guilty on two felony counts of conspiracy and possession with intent to distribute charges. The jury deadlocked on four other charges having to do with operating a location involved with drugs. Judge Anderson declared a mistrial on those counts. Sandusky faces sentencing on January 7, 2013, and could get 10 years. Sandusky's brother Keith and four other former employees of G3 Holistic have pleaded guilty in the case. They are awaiting sentencing.
G3 co-founder John Leslie Nuckolls II testified at Aaron's trial, a condition of his plea bargain. Nuckolls testified he had been friends with Sandusky for about 11 years. In 2009 he approached Sandusky, who had real estate and broker experience, about opening a medical marijuana dispensary.

September 27, 2012 - 150 agents from US Homeland Security (!), FBI, DEA, CHP and Sonoma sheriff's deputies wearing military garb and were accompanied by an armored military vehicle stormed from house to house, pulling up backyard gardens, in an impoverished section of Santa Rosa. Read more.

On September 25, Drug Enforcement Administration agents raided the Live Love Collective in Anaheim.

Meanwhile, five medical marijuana patients and caregivers from Michigan will be sentenced in federal court next week. Read more.

September 25 - Federal authorities took legal action against 71 medical marijuana dispensaries in Los Angeles County, including all known collectives in downtown and Eagle Rock part of an ongoing campaign to crack down on medical marijuana.

According to the U.S. attorney's office, officials sent warning letters to 68 pot dispensaries, filed forfeiture lawsuits against three properties that house such businesses and served search warrants at three additional facilities. Read more.

7/17/2012 - Federal agents raided a medical marijuana dispensary in unincorporated Lake Elsinore, for the second time in three months. Drug Enforcement Agency agents seized marijuana from Compassionate Patients Association, in the 17500 block of Grand Avenue, and told them to shut down. No arrests were made.

7/16/2012 - Mark Bagdasarian, the Clovis pot dispensary owner who already is facing marijuana possession and distribution allegations, is now being hit with federal money laundering charges, even as HSBC bank apologizes to a Senate committee for laundering billions in Mexican cartel drug assets (but faces no criminal charges).

7/12/2012 - The federal government filed property forfeiture suits aimed at closing Harborside, the foremost medical cannabis dispensary still operating in Northern California. In addition to its flagship Oakland location, Harborside operates a branch in San Jose. The landlords of both received forfeiture notices from the DOJ. Read more.

7/11/2012 - A federal search warrant was served at the Pacific Collective in Venice; the facility is now closed.

The federal government has sent a letter to the landlord for Golden State Patient Care Collective in Colfax, threatening him with forfeiture and criminal charges. "Once again, the DOJ is violating AG Holder's own supposed policy by targeting not rogue criminal profiteers, but a well-run, respected dispensary that is abiding in full accordance with California law," said Dale Gieringer of CalNORML. "The DOJ's real agenda is to try to destroy the most successful leaders in the medical cannabis industry because they prove that lawful access to cannabis works, contrary to the government's bankrupt policy of prohibition."

In June, federal authorities filed two asset forfeiture lawsuits against properties housing three pot shops in Santa Fe Springs and sent warning letters to 34 people associated with allegedly illegal marijuana operations in Los Angeles County. The warning letters targeted known marijuana stores in Santa Fe Springs, Whittier, South El Monte, La Mirada, Diamond Bar, Artesia, Paramount, South Gate, City of Commerce, Agoura Hills and Malibu.

5/4/2012 - The DEA, along with the U.S. Attorney's Office, IRS and Santa Barbara police, served search warrants at several collectives and gardens in Santa Barbara county, and filed three forfeiture proceedings in court. "All known marijuana stores in Santa Barbara County are now the subject of federal enforcement actions," said to a statement from the U.S. Attorney's Office.

According to the U.S, Attorney's Office, the asset-forfeiture lawsuits were filed against Miramar Collective on Ortega Hill Road in Summerland, Pacific Coast Collective, at 331 N. Milpas St. in Santa Barbara, whose operator is currently being prosecuted in state court, and an indoor marijuana farm in the 300 block of East Haley Street in Santa Barbara.

Warrants were also served Wednesday at Pacific Coast Collective, and the residence of operator Charles Jeff Restivo in Carpinteria, who is already facing felony charges related to the dispensary. Read more.

4/25/2012 - Federal prosecutors filed forfeiture actions on April 23 against The Green Door Wellness Center and the Green Tiger Collective, both in Novato. The Green Tiger has closed, but the Green Door is fighting to stay open. Read more.

2/29/2012 - US attorneys have sent landlord letters to over 50 more dispensaries in the Inland Empire area (San Bernardino, Fontana, Colton and Bloomington), where local officials have been pressing to close them. In addition, Cal NORML has learned of new landlord letters in Mendocino, apparently targeted at facilities within 1,000 feet of schools or playgrounds.

On February 28, Benjamin Wagner, U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of California, vowed a new crackdown on large medical marijuana grows. In an appearance at the Sacramento Press club, Wagner said in the coming months a new focus will be made on pot farms with tens of thousands of plants in the central valley, from Stanislaus County down to Kern County," Wagner said. When asked if he'd ever smoked marijuana himself, Wagner replied, "I'll say I went to college."

That day, U.S. District Judge Garland E. Burrell Jr. dismissed one of five suits that had been filed in federal courts last fall in a bid to win legal support for medical marijuana use in California and other states. Burrell's order came in a suit filed in federal court in Sacramento last November on behalf of the El Camino Wellness Center and Ryan Landers, a 40-year-old Sacramento man who uses medical marijuana to alleviate suffering from AIDS and other illnesses.

February 21, 2012 - Matthew Shotwell, operator and founder of Greenwell Cooperative in Vallejo was arrested by Vallejo Police and taken into custody. Almost 800 plants were seized from the different locations, police said. The U.S. Attorney's Office Eastern District of California is also investigating a potential civil action against the building's owner, Vallejo Police Lt. Ken Weaver said. Other collectives in Valljeo were reportedly raided on the same day.

January 25, 2012 - Federal agents seized more than 2,500 marijuana plants and arrested at least six people in connection with alleged marijuana grows in an industrial complex just outside Murrieta city limits. On Jan. 18, there were 1,827 marijuana plants seized from the Disabled American Veteran's Collective (DAVC), in the same complex. Two people were arrested in that raid: Kevin Freeman, 38, of Temecula, the director of the collective, and Dennis Earl Zuniga, 32. Prior to the raids, DAVC was visited twice in December by an undercover Riverside County Sheriff's detective who had obtained a medical marijuana card and was able to purchase marijuana twice at the dispensary, according to the warrant. The building's owner Jonathan Cringan, according to the warrant, who was among four arrested. Read more.

January 19, 2012 - A former University of Montana Grizzly quarterback pleaded not guilty in federal court to a charge of conspiracy to manufacture and distribute marijuana. Jason Washington entered his plea in front of U.S. Magistrate Jeremiah Lynch. Washington is one of six defendants named in the indictment, which follows a widespread federal raid last November on numerous businesses, homes and warehouses linked to marijuana businesses in western Montana. Read more.

UPDATE 9/10/12 - Christopher Cronshaw, 25, was sentenced to 125 days in prison and three months home arrest and Gregory Zuckert to three days in prison and three months home arrest. Prosecutors say the 25-year-old Cronshaw was the head grower at Washington's greenhouse.
January 18, 2012 - As part of a continuing, coordinated effort against commercial marijuana operations in California that started last fall, federal prosecutors have filed four asset forfeiture lawsuits against properties housing marijuana storefronts in Los Angeles and Orange counties and have sent warning letters to property owners and operators of illegal marijuana stores in several Southland cities.


The forfeiture actions include American Collective, Otherside Farms, and three other marijuana stores operating at 440 Fair Drive in Costa Mesa. All known collectives in Costa Mesa and Newport Beach are now the subject of federal enforcement actions.

Another asset forfeiture lawsuit has been filed against the building that houses the Alternative Medicinal Cannabis Collective (AMCC) in an unincorporated part of Covina.

Warning letters were sent last week to property owners and operators associated with marijuana stores in unincorporated Walnut, La Puente, Murrieta and Lake Elsinore, where a total of 17 stores are believed to be currently operating. Those receiving letters were warned that the stores are operating in violation of federal law and that they have 15 days to take steps to discontinue the sale and distribution of marijuana at the stores.

Three civil forfeiture actions filed in October are still pending, but the stores in the properties have been closed. And dozens of letters sent to those associated with marijuana stores in 13 Southland cities have resulted in nearly all of the stores being closed, with the remainder currently being the subject of eviction proceedings.

Read more.
January 12, 2012 - United States Attorney Benjamin B. Wagner announced the filing of a civil forfeiture complaint against Grass, aka Sacramento Holistic Healing Center. According to the complaint, Grass/SHHC is located less than 1,000 feet from an elementary school and a high school. Read more.


And federal agents raided three pot dispensaries in San Diego acting on a "landlord law" that was put into action by the U.S. Attorney's office last year. Agents targeted Golden West Collective on University Avenue in North Park with assistance from San Diego Police. Read more.

Cal NORML has received word that in Sacramento County, a score of dispensaries have closed voluntarily in response to the landlord letters. Also, in the Northern District several well-regarded dispensaries have been targeted on the spurious grounds that they were within 1,000 feet of playgrounds or parks, including the Humboldt Medical Supply in Arcata.

October 14, 2011 - Federal prosecutors are warning 16 Sacramento-area landlords they could lose their buildings for renting to marijuana dispensaries. United States Attorney Ben Wagner is following through on a threat formally announced at a news conference last Friday, and confirmed the number of landlord letters in an interview Thursday on Capital Public Radio.
October 13, 2011 - DEA agents along with BNE and one Mendocino county sheriff deputy raided the garden of Northstone Organics, one of the county-licensed medical marijuana growers. Northstone has been involved in a court case in Sonoma county after two of their drivers were caught there while transporting marijuana to medical patients in the Bay area. A Mendocino sheriff and county supervisor testified on behalf of Northstone in that trial.


Also on this day, United States Attorney Benjamin B. Wagner announced that a federal grand jury returned a four-count indictment Mark Bagdasarian and his son Ryan Bagdasarian with conspiring to cultivate and distribute marijuana and possessing marijuana through their Buds 4 Life dispensaries in Fresno. According to the criminal complaint, in June 2011, the Bagdasarian’s stores were searched and law enforcement officers found 3,669 marijuana plants, 219 pounds of processed marijuana, and more than $546,000 in cash. A more recent search yielded another 35 pounds of processed marijuana and $40,000 in cash.
October 12, 2011 - DEA agents, assisted by Pomona police officers, raided the Green Cross USA dispensary, seizing marijuana, edibles, hashish, hashish oil and some documents as part of an investigation. The property owner had received a letter from DEA threatening civil and criminal charges; local authorities had also moved to close the shop. No arrests have been made.
October 5, 2011 - In conjunction with a new federal assault on California's medical marijuana providers, a criminal case was unsealed naming six defendants linked to a now-defunct North Hollywood marijuana collective called NoHo Caregivers. The organization allegedly sold marijuana to other stores, and sent marijuana to affiliates in New York and Pennsylvania - distributed approximately 600 to 700 pounds of marijuana per month, according to the indictment. The indictment also seeks the forfeiture of $14.7 million. The defendants named in the NoHo Caregivers indictment are Paul A. Montoya, Noah Joel Kleinman, Kathy Thabet, James Stanley, Bryant Watson, and Casey Wheat. Their trial is set for May 22, 2012.

Prosecutors also filed three forfeiture actions against owners of buildings where The Wildomar Patients Compassionate Group, Montclair Caregivers in San Bernardino County, and eight stores located in a two-story strip mall at 26402 Raymond Way in Lake Forest.

Federal authorities arrested Ron Chang, 43, of the Wildomar collective; Amanda Theresa Ventura, 28; Peter Arthur Suhan, 54; Hal Delno Pilotte, 57; and Gary David Maddox, 55. A sixth defendant, James Travis Brand, 28, was extradited from Texas and also charged. Pilotte had a hearing in San Diego on January 10, 2012, where the judge granted the defense team time to investigate a wiretap order.

Pilotte had lots of support in court from other senior citizens, most of them not medical marijuana patients. His next hearing is November 28, 2012 at 9:30AM.

In addition to the criminal case and the forfeiture actions, the United States Attorney's Office sent dozens of letters yesterday to people affiliated with 38 marijuana dispensaries in selected cities across the Southland. Those receiving letters are warned that the stores are operating in violation of federal law and that they have two weeks to "take the necessary steps to discontinue the sale and/or distribution of marijuana" at the stores. The letters note that the operation of a marijuana store "may result in criminal prosecution, imprisonment, fines, and forfeiture of assets, including the real property on which the dispensary is operating and any money you receive (or have received) from the dispensary operator."

The cities are:

• Orange County - the cities of Lake Forest, Dana Point, Laguna Hills, Laguna Niguel, and Rancho Santa Margarita;

• Riverside County - the cities of Murrieta, Wildomar, and Temecula; and

• Inland Empire - the cities of Pomona, Claremont, Upland, Montclair, and Chino.

Also receiving a letter was the building owner of the state's longest-operating dispensary, the Marin Alliance for Medical Marijuana in Fairfax. It warns the landlord that he could be liable for imprisonment of up to 40 years, forfeiture of the property, and forfeiture of all rental proceeds from the last 15 years for violating federal law if MAMM isn't evicted.

Building owners for three dispensaries in San Francisco also received letters, as did the Ocean Beach Wellness Centers and Oasis Herbal Center in San Diego. In recent weeks, federal authorities seized the bank accounts of two dispensaries in Sacramento and announced a $2.4 million tax penalty against Harborside Health Center in Oakland.
July 20, 2011 - Jerry Laberdee, Dennis Whited, Russell Blake, Charles Wright and Jon Vivian have been indicted on federal charges that arose from a crackdown on medical marijuana dispensaries in Spokane, Washington earlier this year. The charges carry maximum penalties of 20 years in prison and fines up to $250,000.

July 13, 2011 - Ten people have pleaded not guilty to various federal charges of drug-trafficking conspiracy after approximately 30 law enforcement agencies executed 26 criminal search warrants in 13 Montana cities on March 14. Jason D. Burns, Joshua L. Schultz and Jesse D. Leland pleaded not guilty on June 23 to manufacturing, distribution, possession, and money laundering charges in U.S. District Court in Missoula. On June 30, Richard G. Flor, Justin L. Flor and Sherry L. Flor were each charged with 11 felonies, including possession of a firearm during a drug-trafficking offense in U.S. District Court in Billings. On July 6, Jonathan Janetski, Michael Kassner, Tyler Roe and Evan Corum were charged with three counts each in Missoula. An eleventh person is yet to be arrested, according to Assistant U.S. Attorney Jessica Fehr. All of the defendants face a mandatory minimum of five years, and up to 40 years in prison if convicted. The weapons charges against the Flors could lead to life imprisonment. Operators of the Montana Caregivers Association and MCM Caregivers, which were among the targets of the raids, have filed a lawsuit in federal court claiming their constitutional rights were violated.


UPDATE: On Sept. 7, 2011, Schultz pleaded guilty to a charge of distributing more than 100 kilograms of marijuana. He agreed to forfeit at least $600,000 in cash and a Mercedes car, according to court documents. Leland pleaded guilty on Sept. 13. Both men are scheduled to be sentenced in December.

Separate from the March raids, Shawn Slattery and Andrew Umhey pleaded guilty to conspiracy to manufacture marijuana, according to a statement from the U.S. Attorney. Prosecutors alleged that from October 2010 to February 2011, Slattery and Umhey operated the Four-Twenty Ranch LLC, where marijuana was produced and stored. In February, law enforcement officers seized 272 marijuana plants and 32.5 pounds of marijuana from the business. Both face a mandatory minimum of five years in prison. They are scheduled to be sentenced on December 22. (Source: Medical Marijuana Business Report

UPDATE 3/12: Corum was sentenced to six months in prison, plus six months of house arrest. Kassner and Roe were sentenced to a year and a day each in prison.

UPDATE: On May 22, 2012, Janetski was sentenced to a year in prison, and will likely serve about 10 months. This will make him the first landlord to do time in a medical marijuana case. Read more.

UPDATE 8/29: Chris Lindsey, the president of an advocacy group behind a lawsuit and a ballot measure challenging Montana’s restrictive new medical marijuana law, has struck a deal with federal prosecutors to plead guilty to conspiracy to maintain a drug-involved premises for his involvement with Montana Cannabis. The charge carries a penalty of up to 20 years in prison and a $500,000 fine upon conviction.

Dan Nichols, a former Montana Cannabis employee who is known for kidnapping a world-class biathlete in the 1980s with his father in a scheme to make the woman his mountain bride, has also been charged, as has Chris Williams. Source.

UPDATE 8/30: Richard Flor was sentenced to 5 years and died in Federal custody.

UPDATE 9/6: Tom Daubert, 59, pleaded guilty and was sentenced to five years probation on Sept. 6. He faces 20 years for his involvement in Montana Cannabis.

UPDATE 9/28: Williams was found guilty on eight charges by a jury on September 27, 2012.

Williams wasn't able to tell the jurors anything about the Montana Medical Marijuana Act since Judge Christensen ruled that marijuana remains a Schedule 1 drug under federal law; as such, possession, cultivation and distribution of it remains a federal crime. Montana laws, he added, weren't pertinent to the case and he didn't allow any mention of them before jurors or as a defense. Williams's lawyer Michael Donahoe stated that he believes the federal government is guilty of entrapment of his client, and will appeal on that basis and others.

The New York Times wrote, "While Jerry Sandusky got a 30-year minimum sentence for raping young boys, Mr. Williams is looking at a mandatory minimum of more than 80 years for marijuana charges and for possessing firearms during a drug-trafficking offense."

------------------

it seems Obama is making it very clear that when it comes to pot, he will back whatever an individual state wants


false


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Response to green for victory (Reply #128)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:45 PM

131. explain why that isn't what is happening in Colorado then.

maybe pot isn't as popular with CA's people as you think?

do you want me to counter with a list of the hundreds dispensaries that are operating "business as usual" here?

i never doubted or denied that your dispensaries are being shut down, CA has been handling their situation different than CO, and therein is the answer, or at least clues. are your juries practicing Jury Nullification, sending a clear message that prosecutors cannot get a conviction? ours are. have your local authorities been ignoring minor pot infractions? ours have. every time there is an attempted robbery of a dispensary or grow, the our news is plastered with stories of the often comically botched attempt foiled due to extremely tight security. so people are seeing that our businesses are serious about keeping their product and money out of criminals hands. CO's existing MMJ laws have no disincentive as CA's does for MMJ businesses to hide their profitability. every MMJ business in this state has to have their books wide open to the state, and plant matter tracked from seed to sale. are CA's so closely watched?

the answer isn't as simple as there being some grand conspiracy to jail CA MMJ providers. you need to read CO's newspapers, talk to the residents and tourists. see how things are being handled here. yes, CO is relatively new to the the MMJ business compared to CA, but we learned from the mistakes made there. now i humbly suggest they take a look at what's been done right here and learn from our successes that paved the way to legalization.

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Response to uncle ray (Reply #131)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:58 PM

134. Dozens of Colorado dispensaries have been forced to shut down by the feds.

Maybe the US Attorney there has other things to do, too.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:22 AM

57. Just think if you were a dope smoking banker. Sweet!

 

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:42 AM

62. Yippee

Now use some of that free time and manpower to go after the white collar criminals

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:43 AM

64. I see that so many people here on DU must've failed basic civics courses in junior high.

It's such a shame.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #64)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:54 AM

66. Actually, I passed Basic Civics class

with an "A." Care to elaborate with specifics?

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #64)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:54 AM

67. How so?

I would love to hear yet again how the executive branch has no role in setting and enforcing drug policy.

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #67)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:05 PM

80. Why so sensitive? I wasn't referring to any one person. I was referring to the fact that the Exec.

Branch enforces the laws and that many here in this thread don't get that. You seem to get it, so why are you being sensitive? If my post doesn't apply to you, then chill.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #80)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:24 PM

89. So when Obama issued a signing statement suspending deportation law enforcement

for illegal immigrants who met specific criteria, was he also deficient in his understanding of basic civics?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #89)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:30 PM

91. I thought we were discussing pot users, no? And no, I don't agree with his deportation acts.

Still, we're discussing constitutional powers, whether we agree how they are used or not.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #91)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:34 PM

94. We are discussing what powers the executive branch has.

And you started out the discussion by declaring all of us stupid about this issue. You now have to explain away the fact that it seems that the administration does have the power to selectively enforce laws, and you are doing so in a rather dishonest fashion.

So is Obama as stupid as the rest of us regarding basic civics? Or perhaps you would like to withdraw, edit, and rephrase your post upthread?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #94)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:42 PM

97. I declared ALL of you stupid? When did I do that? When did I target any one person?

I stand by my statement. I think there are plenty of people in this thread who don't have basic knowledge of how government works, just by reading the comments.

If my statements don't apply to you, then there's no need for you to take offense.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #97)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:50 PM

99. Here:


I see that so many people here on DU must've failed basic civics courses in junior high.

It's such a shame.


Yes that is calling us stupid. And I stand by my statement that you are being dishonest in this discussion.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #99)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:51 PM

100. "So many people" does not equal "ALL". Try again!

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #100)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:22 PM

110. right. Go with that. Everyone supporting administrative action. That ALL.

But you knew that.

So, again - Obama also a dunce with respect to basic civics?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #110)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:36 PM

111. A bunch of strawman arguments that no sense. But you knew that, right?

Welcome to IGNORE!

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #111)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:46 PM

113. "I see that so many people here on DU must've failed basic civics courses in junior high. "

Indeed when confronted with your own words, best to put those words on ignore.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #64)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:28 PM

90. junior high civics doesn't cover prosecurotial discretinon

which is extremely important in this case.

Also in the HSBC case. If your junior high civics was everything, those bankers would be in jail for money laundering.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #90)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:31 PM

93. Really? O.K. My point stands.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:23 AM

72. SLOW DOWN!

Obama's term just started; the two states are trying to figure out how they are going to respond to the voters will. I must admit a simple statement could end all of this but I'm sure the DOJ is reviewing all of their options right now. From everything I've read, they are going to try to push the issue into the courts to let them decide. This whole situation needs some time to go through the rounds before ANYTHING will happen and ANYONE commits to any action. No different than any other political issue. As much as you'd think our well-oiled machine of a government would setup task forces and what not BEFORE the election when it was pretty obvious these measures would pass; as much as you think Obama could fix this with one call (see below... he can)... its no different than any other issue, it has to go through the process of being demonized by one side, demonized by some on the other, comprimise. Its all one huge cluster#@$@#. Expect nothing more from these people.

Have the repubs come out with any repsonse to these laws? Curious if they mention "states rights" or "drugs are bad".


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/11/the-white-house-can-decriminalize-medical-marijuana-in-one-easy-step/

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:29 AM

74. In other words ...

seller's beware.

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #74)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:16 PM

83. That's exactly how I read this, too. We'll see. nt

PB

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #74)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:39 PM

96. See my post above

The states cannot authorize sales across state lines and the sellers better not do so unilaterally. Otherwise they invite trouble.
I hate that POTUS never removed GOP us attorneys. But a lot of collectives in CA brought this on themselves by not reading CA law carefully and in turn not cultivating on-site. This opened the door to Fed action By definition a collective has to be small and local and many were simply not that .... I'm not worried though. Science and data more than anything are killing the WOD. I predict in 4 years the rescheduling will have occurred. And there will be several states with legal or soon to be legal weed

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #74)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:50 PM

114. That strategy would backfire

literally exploding a grow it yourself grassroots movement.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:10 PM

82. Cut off Patients access instead

I listen and hang on every word Obama says on this issue..
Its in the words he uses...
Yes he says he will not go after Users...
Instead he has proved in his way that Anyone who grows or and sells weed to anyone is Game..
It happened to California...
The DEA is still there to date..
Successfully shutting down the so called Store Front Cannabis Dispensaries in every corner of this State..
Doing what the Court System could not for those who oppose Cannabis all together..

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:17 PM

84. As much as I like Obama, I've heard this before. . . .

And his Department of Justice has been wreaking havoc in San Francisco and Oakland with "legal" (at least state-wise) pot dispensaries. They've managed to shut down quite a few of the larger ones, and some people have gotten into some pretty serious legal trouble.

I am honestly puzzled at his administration's (previous?) obsession with pot? I hope things have changed, but I am suspicious!

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:36 PM

95. Nice sound bite, but nearly meaningless in the real world.

State and local cops make about 99% of all arrests.

They don't have enough DEA agents to go after pot smokers.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:55 PM

101. Though not strong enough, it is a step in the right direction. We'd never see this

from a Republican.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:59 PM

105. I'll believe it when I see it.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:19 PM

119. These are not the drugs you're looking for... n/t

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:16 PM

127. Make sure you tell the AG to leave them alone.

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