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Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:19 PM

Hypnosis ordered for soldier charged with killing comrades

Source: Reuters

Hypnosis ordered for soldier charged with killing comrades
By Laura L. MyersReuters
10:45 p.m. EST, December 11, 2012


SEATTLE (Reuters) - A U.S. Army sergeant accused of killing five fellow servicemen at a military counseling center in Iraq in 2009 and deemed to have been psychotic at the time has been ordered to undergo forensic hypnosis in a bid to unlock buried memories.

An Army judge ordered the hypnosis for Sergeant John Russell, 48, in granting three defense motions aimed at learning more about Russell's mental state during a shooting frenzy the military has said might have been triggered by combat stress.

Russell, a member of the Army's 54th Engineer Battalion based in Bamberg, Germany, faces five charges of premeditated murder, one charge of aggravated assault and one charge of attempted murder in connection with the May 2009 shootings.

Two of the dead were medical staff officers at a combat stress counseling clinic called Camp Liberty, part of the U.S. military's Victory Base Complex near the Baghdad airport. The other three were soldiers who happened to be at the center at the time.


Read more: http://www.southbendtribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-rt-us-usa-iraq-soldierbre8bb06t-20121211,0,7977757.story

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Reply Hypnosis ordered for soldier charged with killing comrades (Original post)
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 OP
Jackpine Radical Dec 2012 #1
drm604 Dec 2012 #2
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #7
Jackpine Radical Dec 2012 #10
DeSwiss Dec 2012 #3
Angleae Dec 2012 #5
DeSwiss Dec 2012 #6
okaawhatever Dec 2012 #8
defacto7 Dec 2012 #4
okaawhatever Dec 2012 #9

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:24 PM

1. Just how is that supposed to work?

Hypnosis is not a valid means of recovering memories.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:53 PM

2. Even if it could, I don't think you can hypnotize an uncooperative subject.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 03:30 AM

7. That's because it isn't real.

"If a subject after submitting to the hypnotic procedure shows no genuine increase in susceptibility to any suggestions whatever, there seems no point in calling him hypnotised..."

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Response to drm604 (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 03:17 PM

10. You're right.

As one of my old clinical professors used to say, "All hypnosis is self-hypnosis."

And it is also axiomatic that you can't make anyone do things under hypnosis that they would find repugnant in an "ordinary" state of consciousness.

Nevertheless, there have always been rumors in the field that the CIA had found ways around these issues.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:44 AM

3. Boy I sure do miss the old days......

...when we still had rights.



"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."


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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:45 AM

5. This was a motion by the defense (actually 3 of them).

They are trying to determine the defendants mental status at the time (or so says the 2nd paragraph of the OP).

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Response to Angleae (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:55 AM

6. I was told (by a lawyer friend) that the first rule of a good lawyer.....

...is to never ask a question of someone on the stand that you don't already know the answer to.

So if he blurts out how he made all the crazy talk up and had fun killing everyone (like a mentally distressed person might do), what then?

Or, if the judge uses the testimony given under hypnosis and lessens the charges or sentence, the prosecution could appeal arguing that hypnosis testimony is inadmissible under current legal precedent.

- Eh, what do I know?

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:12 AM

8. Remember, military follows UCMJ Uniform Code of Military Justice, but it seems the defense asked for

this, not the prosecution. I don't think the article is very clear.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:42 AM

4. excuse me

You can't force hypnosis. You can drug the guy and get some answers, but simple hypnosis? It isn't worth trying and the information would be useless.

So what's the real story?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:25 AM

9. This might be promising. From the full story it says

"In addition to assigning a Stanford University specialist to interview Russell under hypnosis, Judge Conn ordered a sophisticated brain scan and battery of psychological tests for the sergeant."

This might open the door to some new method of diagnosing and helping those with PTSD and other combat related problems. A Stanford University specialist is pretty much who would be at the forefront of new techniques for diagnosing/treating problems. I hope something good comes of it.

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