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Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:11 PM

Venezuela's Chavez says cancer has returned

Source: CBC

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has announced that his cancer has returned and that he will undergo another surgery in Cuba.

Chavez, who won re-election on Oct. 7, also said for the first time that if his health were to worsen, his successor would be Vice-President Nicolas Maduro.

"We should guarantee the advance of the Bolivarian Revolution," Chavez said on television Saturday night, seated at the presidential palace with Maduro and other aides.

The president said that tests had shown a return of some cancerous cells and that he would return to Cuba on Sunday for the surgery, his third operation to remove cancerous tissue in about a year and a half.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/08/venezuela-hugo-chavez-cancer.html

96 replies, 11224 views

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Arrow 97 replies Author Time Post
Reply Venezuela's Chavez says cancer has returned (Original post)
NYC Liberal Dec 2012 OP
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #1
Ernesto Dec 2012 #2
kelliekat44 Dec 2012 #44
fascisthunter Dec 2012 #3
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #5
fascisthunter Dec 2012 #6
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #12
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #23
hrmjustin Dec 2012 #8
allrevvedup Dec 2012 #4
Zorro Dec 2012 #7
SamKnause Dec 2012 #9
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #10
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #13
jwirr Dec 2012 #18
Mr.Turnip Dec 2012 #11
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #14
mecherosegarden Dec 2012 #21
Zorro Dec 2012 #24
MADem Dec 2012 #31
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #37
MADem Dec 2012 #38
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #39
kelliekat44 Dec 2012 #42
MADem Dec 2012 #50
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #52
MADem Dec 2012 #61
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #64
MADem Dec 2012 #65
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #68
MADem Dec 2012 #72
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #84
MADem Dec 2012 #85
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #86
MADem Dec 2012 #87
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #88
MADem Dec 2012 #89
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #90
MADem Dec 2012 #91
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #92
MADem Dec 2012 #93
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #94
MADem Dec 2012 #95
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #96
MADem Dec 2012 #97
joshcryer Dec 2012 #63
MADem Dec 2012 #66
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #69
MADem Dec 2012 #70
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #71
MADem Dec 2012 #73
joshcryer Dec 2012 #78
joshcryer Dec 2012 #77
joshcryer Dec 2012 #76
MADem Dec 2012 #80
joshcryer Dec 2012 #82
MADem Dec 2012 #83
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #57
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #16
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #17
jwirr Dec 2012 #19
randomtagger Dec 2012 #58
leftynyc Dec 2012 #59
randomtagger Dec 2012 #62
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #79
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #15
jwirr Dec 2012 #20
Recursion Dec 2012 #27
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #30
JackRiddler Dec 2012 #35
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #45
joshcryer Dec 2012 #55
joshcryer Dec 2012 #54
MADem Dec 2012 #67
kelliekat44 Dec 2012 #43
joshcryer Dec 2012 #56
MADem Dec 2012 #74
joshcryer Dec 2012 #75
MADem Dec 2012 #81
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #22
Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #25
Fearless Dec 2012 #26
polly7 Dec 2012 #28
MADem Dec 2012 #29
struggle4progress Dec 2012 #32
muriel_volestrangler Dec 2012 #33
Ash_F Dec 2012 #34
kelliekat44 Dec 2012 #60
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #36
Downtown Hound Dec 2012 #40
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #41
Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #47
Downtown Hound Dec 2012 #49
bitchkitty Dec 2012 #53
JackRiddler Dec 2012 #48
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #46
DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #51

Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:19 PM

1. Best wishes, President Chavez.

And best wishes for your country as well.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:24 PM

2. Works for me.......... NT

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 07:41 AM

44. Wish he could try the Gerson diet starting immediately. What would he have to lose? nt

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:37 PM

3. Long Life and fuck capitalist fascists

who jerk off to your demise. I'm sorry, was I lude?

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:09 PM

5. Yeah, but who gives a fuck what those assholes think?

 



They're the one's rooting for a return to crushing poverty and misery just to support the some of the worst parasites on earth.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:12 PM

6. they not only express an opinion

but support my servitude and poverty. They have no standing in any conversation nor debate... they are amoral sociopaths.

Thank you brother. If I travel to NV, I hope to hang out with you.

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:33 AM

12. So very right, they ARE "amoral sociopaths". Nothing but trash. n/t

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:03 PM

23. Sooner or later, everyone comes to LV.

 

Just let me know...

Peace. Now.

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:23 PM

8. You only said what you felt.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:45 PM

4. Hasta la victoria siempre. . .

 

Very sad news.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:22 PM

7. Sounds as if the prognosis is not good

if he actually discussed his successor.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:36 AM

9. Chavez

This truly saddens me.

Sending positive thoughts your way President Chavez.

Viva Chavez

Viva Venezuela

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:08 AM

10. If anything happens to Chavez, the U.S. has a moral obligation

NOT to use the situation to try to manipulate the state of affairs in Venezuela.

The people of Venezuela have re-elected Chavez three times now...and in the last election, the opposition only made it closer by embracing elements of Chavez' program. Our country's government has NO RIGHT to try to force a post-Chavez Venezuela back to the brutality of "market values"-the market has never brought anything but misery to that country, and to the rest of Latin America as well.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:38 AM

13. I hope there is enough power in the resistance of the masses in Venezuela now.

The U.S. always had a moral obligation not to harm others, and to allow their democracies a chance to live, but that has never seemed to slow down their covert and not so covert manipuation and destruction of the people's will in the Americas.

Hope the Bolivarian revolution has had enough time to grow strong. That is exactly what the people want, and everyone knows it. Democracy, not exploitive, heartless servitude to the racist US-supported oligarchs again.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:50 AM

18. And how I wish that we were truly moral enough to fulfill that obligation. I fear for the poor and

middle class when their leader dies.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:39 AM

11. Sigh of course the Chavez fans are out in force here.

I have no strong opinions one way or the other on Chavez but I knew something like this was coming, he'll probably get through this one but it'll be back again and it will kill him, he should of stepped aside for someone else from his party.

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Response to Mr.Turnip (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:41 AM

14. You're in the wrong place if you're telling us Chavez fans don't have a place in a Democratic forum.

It would give you credibility if you took some time to do your research as soon as you can.

Learn about what has happened in Venezuela in the last several decades before you start trying to devaluate people who DO know about it, have worked to learn, and are Democrats to start with.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:56 AM

21. I was born in Venezuela

And my family is still there. Maybe you have some facts, but I am the one helping my family with medication, money, and other things when one of them had to go to the hospital for medical treatment while Mr. Chavez travels to Cuba to receive medical treatment. I am the one who has suffered when a relative , and a friend were put in the trunk of a car by kidnappers , or when a friend was shot when riding a bus to see his daughter. You will find different opinions : Those who support Mr. Chavez, those who don't. Insulting those , like myself, who don't believe on him or on what he has done, doesn't help to change the opinions.

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Response to mecherosegarden (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:10 PM

24. Don't let it bother you

She reflexively scolds any new poster who appears critical of Chavez.

One day she might actually go to Venezuela and see how things really are.

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Response to mecherosegarden (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:26 PM

31. I have VZ friends who are living in PR now.

They aren't rich and they aren't pampered, privileged types, either. They did run like hell in fear of their lives from the present regime in VZ, and they describe situations similar to yours. They are frantic with worry about the situation those they left behind find themselves in, and they try to help out as best they can.

There is a small group here who remain deliberately ignorant of the full picture in VZ, for reasons unclear to me. Perhaps they like the fiction of a Utopian society, when in reality it's a hellhole where everyone gets a free cellphone...?

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Response to MADem (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:24 AM

37. How unfortunate for you that second and third-hand anecdotes can't be verified.

Things like transparent elections and social indicators can be, however.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:29 AM

38. I believe them more than I believe some of the characterizations I see here.

I can look them in the eye across the dinner table, I can hear them talking to family back home. The "social indicators" I hear about are scarcity, scarcity and more scarcity. It doesn't sound like paradise in the slightest.

But hey, whatever. The place is going to change soon--for better or worse.

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Response to MADem (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 01:18 AM

39. The scarcity is clearly caused by powerful political opponents of Chavez;

the elite business class of Venezuela, who own everything worth owning in Venezuela, including the means to distribute goods and services. There's no doubt in my mind, they have deliberately manufactured the shortages for political gain. Even so, I think the working class and poor of Venezuela -- the majority of the population -- are far better off now, than before Chavez was elected.

"Paradise"? Why would you want to deliberately mis-characterize someone's position on this issue, like that? I don't get that. It makes me want to be "mean" , sometimes, when people do that.

The current government is a result of the will of the Venezuelan people, expressed through highly monitored, verifiable elections. That's something I can always get behind.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #39)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 07:33 AM

42. Just as hardships in every country are caused by the "haves" usually trampling on the rights,

resources, and opportunities for the "have-nots." The hardships in Cuba are a direct result of American policy dictated by the Cuban criminal oligarchy that fled to the US where their bought and paid for Congress co-harts passed laws and to give special privileges to them at American taxpayer expense. The cabal still exists in FL with extensions to every gaming industry in this country and round the world.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #39)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 12:43 AM

50. And of course, management has nothing to do with it whatsoever...?

For someone who has taken control of every other business in the place, rewritten the Constitution, taken control of all branches of government, poor Hugo is a "victim" of the "elite business class?" I don't think that's the case, frankly.

I thought his usual modus was to "nationalize" any business that didn't jump high enough, fast enough to suit him...

What my friends, exiled outside of San Juan, tell me, is that the place is no paradise, that their family left behind are struggling. Why are you suggesting to me that my dear friends are untruthful or mischaracterizing their view of their own country? I trust them to tell me how they perceive the situation in their own homeland. This IS what they said to me. I don't think they have any reason to lie, either.

I think the people of VZ deserve better--I just don't think Hugo's the guy to deliver it to them. He keeps them in a state of perpetual poverty; their lives don't get better, really--it's just a slightly better class of misery. His agrarian schemes aren't cutting it, and the entire situation there is just terribly...tenuous. But he makes their poverty a bit more genteel, so they tug their forelocks and are grateful, but it's not a good situation.

It won't matter soon enough, anyway. Hugo's terminally ill. He won't be able to give them nominal pay rises or extra minutes on their free cell phones for much longer. I also don't know if his replacement will a) be any better, or b) survive for very long without the Hugoesque charisma and charm.

Time will tell.

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Response to MADem (Reply #50)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 01:45 AM

52. Right off the bat, you push misinformation, without giving it a second thought.

Last edited Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:51 AM - Edit history (1)

President Chavez did not rewrite the constitution. It was written by an assembly that was created through elections, and then it was ratified by a referendum.

Your characterizations of the situation in Venezuela are pure nonsense. Here is more reliable information:

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/7313

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/venezuela-2009-02.pdf?phpMyAdmin=330ac50250f0at3851ad76r2963

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/venezuela-2012-09.pdf

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #52)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 04:35 PM

61. It's not misinformation...unless you think those folks at PBS were lying nearly a decade ago...

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/jan-june03/venezuela.html

Chavez helped rewrite Venezuela's constitution to provide more opportunities for minorities and indigenous people and he has increased government spending on programs to provide health care, education, housing and micro-credit loans – loans for small amounts of money – for the poorest Venezuelans.

...Critics of Chavez believe that he is autocratic and tyrannical. After his 1998 election Chavez helped rewrite the constitution and extended the length of his presidency. He also created a law that gave him supra-congressional authority – the ability to pass a law without congressional approval in certain circumstances.

Using the power of the presidency, Chavez gave many jobs in the oil industry to his friends, regardless of their experience. He has also threatened to close down the privately owned press when reporters wrote stories critical of his actions and policies.

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Response to MADem (Reply #61)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:24 AM

64. Your article says Chavez *helped* rewrite the constitution.

Your earlier post said Chavez rewrote the constitution, implying that a constitutional assembly and the electorate played no role, and that the President imposed it through some sort of diktat. The fact of the matter is, the new constitution was extensively publicized (it was even printed on grocery packaging), discussed, and debated over, for many months, before finally being approved by the electorate; the epitome of democracy. I don't see a problem.

The supra-congressional authority was for a limited period of time, and as your article notes, it applied only under "certain circumstances", primarily on matters related to fiscal policy, if I remember correctly.

None of this makes President Chavez a dictator.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #64)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:09 AM

65. He rewrote it, with help. That's the bottom line. What went in it was what HE wanted in it.

You have the sequence backwards, too. The electorate votes first--BEFORE the rewrite. And the assembly? Those were his guys--it was a rubber stamp. He got what HE wanted.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1999-04-26/news/9904260040_1_venezuela-constitutional-assembly-supreme-court

Those dictatorial changes Chavez made are permanent (well, for the time being, anyway). They didn't come with an expiration date.

As I said, though, time will tell. If he is indeed terminal with an aggressive sarcoma, there will be a new election, and none of his cronies have the ability to both bully and bullshit as well as Hugo can. It'll be an interesting election to watch.

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Response to MADem (Reply #65)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:49 AM

68. You are the one who has the sequence wrong.

The first referendum in April of 1999, decided whether or not to establish an assembly. The second, held in December, approved the constitution.

The members of the constitutional assembly immediately began with their work. However, it was quickly realized that plenary sessions were too time consuming and so, because Chávez wanted the assembly to complete its work within six months, it met primarily in 22 commissions. Also, a debate broke out between the opposition and the assembly’s majority on whether or not the assembly had the right to take over normal legislative functions. Chávez and his supporters argued that since the assembly was the highest legislative representative of the sovereign, of the people, the assembly should take precedence over the legislature. With help from the judiciary, Chávez’ view won out. By December the document was ready and on the 15th it was submitted to a national vote. 71.8% of the voters approved the new constitution, with an abstention rate of 55.6%.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/70

Rewriting the constitution was perfectly legal, and ratifying it through a referendum, was democracy in action. It is the most detailed and comprehensive in the entire world. No other, addresses the issue of human rights with such attention. You should read it.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/constitution

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #68)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:05 PM

72. No, I don't think I do. The whole process began with a vote of authorization.

They weren't voting to change the team colors or for a national holiday--they were voting to allow the initiation of the process. That vote was more enthusiastic than the one you brought up.

The quote that you provided doesn't help your case, but it does back up what I've been noting --particularly the part you put in bold.

Just over 55% of the voting population abstained from ratifying the new constitution, and of those who voted, 30% rejected it. That's 'democracy in action?' I don't think so.

This illustrative paragraph is from your first link, too:

Given the foregoing, what kind of political culture does Venezuela have? As a measure of political culture and the adherence to the rule of law, one could take Venezuela’s Corruption Perception Index, as measured by Transparency International, where Venezuela ranks in the 81st place from the top of the list, the least corrupt, or tenth place from the bottom, the most corrupt, in the same rank as Albania, Guatemala, and Nicaragua and just below Pakistan, the Philippines, Romania, and Zambia. Of course, these are merely perceptions, which can be heavily influenced by the media. And in Venezuela the media, which is an active part of the opposition to the government, would have an interest in exaggerating the degree of corruption that exists in Venezuela since the election of Chávez. Nonetheless, it is probably fair to say that in Venezuela corruption and hence a generalized lack of respect for the rule of law is quite widespread, which does not bode well for the new constitution. The April 2002 coup attempt, the consequent suspension of the constitution, and the acceptance of these acts in a large part of the population further reinforces the impression that Venezuela’s political culture plays fast and loosely with the rule of law.

Corruption hasn't improved in the most recent look by these folks, either--they're now 9th from the bottom, instead of tenth:

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/

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Response to MADem (Reply #72)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:20 AM

84. Just a poor attempt to deny what is recorded here for all to see.

If your claim is that ordinary, working class Venezuelans, were better off before President Chavez was elected, then you simply refuse to acknowledge the facts and figures that show conclusively that you are wrong.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/venezuela-2009-02.pdf?phpMyAdmin=330ac50250f0at3851ad76r2963

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/venezuela-2012-09.pdf

As for the corruption, I doubt it is any worse now, than before Chavez was elected. Perhaps it is something that is inherent to the political culture of Venezuela. Surely Hugo Chavez is not personally responsible for all of the corruption in Venezuela. To blame him for it, seems like you're grasping.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #84)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:45 AM

85. No, that's not accurate.

I also think you don't have a full picture of how bad it is there. I'm the first to admit that I don't know everything and have much more to learn, perhaps you'd be well served to take the same approach instead of characterizing me as "grasping" and "denying" simply because I don't agree with your perceptions, and instead I take counsel from my family friends from that country who have personally experienced the crime and insecurity, and who remain concerned about the fate of their loved ones in that precarious environment.


I invite you to look at the video Josh has provided. The corruption is on steroids these days. Seven hundred million diverted by a single con job isn't chickenfeed. It should be investigated.

VZ's economy is oil based. Chavez took over in 99, when gas was selling for a buck a gallon. That price has just about quadrupled over the years. Of course the nation has revenues, and even the most corrupt dictator would have to be a raging dingbat-moron to not be able to do something with the earnings that the industry provides. But the amount of corruption and skim is on the rise, which is why VZ is ranked as one of the most corrupt nations in the world, and the amount of crime--which in normal societies goes DOWN when extreme poverty is lessened, is going up. And not just "a bit." By leaps and bounds. Shortages continue to abound. The police and the military are not the "friends" of the people.

That's not "paradise." The place is fucked up.

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Response to MADem (Reply #85)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:26 AM

86. Yes, it is accurate.

I said the new constitution was "extensively publicized, discussed and debated over for many months, before finally being approved by the electorate", to which you replied, "The electorate votes first--BEFORE the rewrite."

The constitution was ratified by a referendum after it was written. You are clearly wrong.

It's hard to make sense of your post, frankly. It doesn't make any specific accusations against President Chavez. It simply attempts to draw vague, negative associations with words like "skim" and "corruption" and "dictator".

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #86)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:32 PM

87. The vote to start the process was the first vote on the matter.

And 55% of the electorate refused to "approve" or even VOTE ON the thing at all (the final vote on the matter), while of the minority who voted on it after it was written, 30% rejected it.

It's simple, basic arithmetic. That's not a resounding vote of approval--not by any stretch. Most of the nation did NOT approve of the changes, no matter how you try to spin the result.

I'm not "accusing" (loaded word) Chavez of anything. I am opining that he's a poor and autocratic leader who has over the past decade plus, fostered an environment where corruption and crime have run rampant. I've backed up the opinion with data. So yes, a leader IS responsible for the management of his country--that's not a "vague, negative association" -- that's how leadership works. Or in the case of Chavez, doesn't work.

If you can't "make sense" of my post, the problem, I fear, is yours. I'm speaking English and not using big words.

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Response to MADem (Reply #87)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:10 AM

88. And the vote that 'ended' the process, thus ratifying the new constitution,

was cast after it was written, contrary to the false claim, made in your earlier post.

It doesn't matter that there were abstentions by the electorate. The democratic process has to continue, regardless. Regularly, around half of the US population does not vote for a president, and even fewer numbers vote for legislators. Does that render our process illegitimate?

Your claim that Chavez is a poor leader, is not supported by the facts. His successes are particularly impressive, when one considers his virulent opposition, even succumbing to a short-lived coup d'etat.


- From 1998-2006, infant mortality has fallen by more than one-third. The number of primary care physicians in the public sector increased 12-fold from 1999-2007, providing health care to millions of Venezuelans who previously did not have access.

- There have been substantial gains in education, especially higher education, where gross enrollment rates more than doubled from 1999-2000 to 2007-2008.

- The labor market also improved substantially over the last decade, with unemployment dropping from 11.3 percent to 7.8 percent. During the current expansion it has fallen by more than half. Other labor market indicators also show substantial gains.

- Over the past decade, the number of social security beneficiaries has more than doubled.

- Over the decade, the government’s total public debt has fallen from 30.7 to 14.3 percent of GDP. The foreign public debt has fallen even more, from 25.6 to 9.8 percent of GDP.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/venezuela-2009-02.pdf?phpMyAdmin=330ac50250f0at3851ad76r2963

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/venezuela-2012-09.pdf

"fostered an environment where corruption and crime have run rampant".

I don't believe you can support that. You'll need to show that crime and corruption are worse now, than before Chavez was elected. I'm highly skeptical.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #88)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:45 AM

89. You aren't reading what I wrote, if you think that.

But again, since you mentioned that last vote once more, the one that happened AFTER the document was written, the overwhelming majority of the electorate did not approve it.
You can't get away from that fact, no matter how much you continue to make this conversation about me (which is not an appropriate strategy for discussion).

You continue to avoid the issues of violence soaring out of control, and the fact that a blind moron with oil reserve money could "improve" things like public debt or housing or any number of things...even while siphoning away a fortune in public funds to pay for his reelection campaign and bribes. And corruption? It's a free-for-all in VZ. You know this. You ignore it.

If you would look at the references I provided, right there in POSTS 72 and 73, you would see the evidence you say I "need" to provide. I provided it. TWO DAYS AGO. And one of the quotes, with regard to corruption statistics, came from a source YOU put forward--not me. I would hope you'd read your own links. Nonetheless, I provided the most recent data from that same source--and it showed that the problem had worsened, not improved. Here is that link YET AGAIN--since you apparently missed it the first time. http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/

You must read the information provided, because when you do, your "skepticism"would be immediately abated. You would learn, if you read it, that "With some 19,336 murders last year, Venezuela has become one of the western hemisphere's most violent countries ..." and that the country suffered "an average of 53 murders per day in 2011."

If you need to read up on this topic (and apparently you do, based on your commentary here), and the links I have ALREADY PROVIDED are not sufficient, here are some more edifying links--I urge you to read them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Venezuela

Venezuela is among the most violent places of Latin America. Class tension has long been a part of life in the South American country, where armed robberies, carjackings and kidnappings are frequent. In 2009, the homicide rate was approximately 57 per 100,000, one of the world’s highest, having tripled in the previous decade. The capital Caracas has the second greatest homicide rate of any large city in the world, with 92 homicides per 100,000 residents.


http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/citing-crime-norway-close-venezuela-embassy-17887818

Norway will close its embassy in Venezuela because of rampant crime in the South American country and move the diplomatic mission to neighboring Colombia, its ambassador said Wednesday...
Norway's embassy in Caracas has been operating for almost 45 years.

In polls, Venezuelans consistently rate violent crime as their top concern.

The government of President Hugo Chavez estimates that more than 14,000 people were killed in Venezuela last year. That gave the country a homicide rate of 50 per 100,000 people and made it one of the most violent countries in Latin America and the world.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/11/in-venezuela-crime-spree-_n_957345.html

Last year, Venezuela's homicide rate was more than double that of Mexico, which is engulfed in drug-related violence, and the third highest in the region after Honduras and El Salvador. The Venezuelan Violence Observatory, a nongovernmental organization that tracks violent crime, says there were about 17,600 homicides last year, compared with a 2009 estimate of 15,241 in the U.S., which is over 10 times more populous than Venezuela.

The government puts the murder rate at 48 per 100,000 people, up from 19 per 100,000 in 1998, the year Hugo Chavez was elected president. In polls, Venezuelans consistently rate criminal violence as their biggest concern, but they tend to blame societal and bureaucratic failures, and so far it doesn't seem to be affecting Chavez's support ahead of next year's presidential election campaign.

Still, the International Crisis Group, an independent Brussels-based organization focused on conflict prevention, says crime and violence are out of control and can "seriously threaten Venezuela's medium- and long-term stability."

In a report issued last month it says the main reason is that the public doesn't trust authorities to enforce the law. Chavez's government "seems unable but in part also unwilling to safeguard military and law enforcement institutions against criminal influences and corruption, fight organized and common crime and protect the population."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16349118

The OVV says violent crime has risen steadily in Venezuela since 1999 when President Chavez took office. In that year only 4,550 murders were registered.

The group did not give an overall reason for the rising violence, but said the problem was fuelled by impunity, with the great majority of killings going unpunished.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Venezuela
Venezuela has been one of the most corrupt countries in TNI surveys since they started in 1995, ranking 38th out of 41 that year and performing similarly badly in following years (e.g. 158th out of 180 countries in 2008, the worst in Latin America except Haiti, and one of the 10 most corrupt countries on the index in 2012, ranked 165th out of 176 (tied with Burundi, Chad, and Haiti)).


http://www.ibtimes.com/corruption-venezuela-threatens-human-rights-hrw-report-723769

Human Rights Watch (HRW) condemned Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Tuesday in a new report that details how the abuse and consolidation of power under his watch has taken a heavy toll on human rights.


For years, President Chavez and his followers have been building a system in which the government has free rein to threaten and punish Venezuelans who interfere with their political agenda, said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at HRW, who noted that the human rights situation is worse now than it was four years ago.

Today that system is firmly entrenched, and the risks for judges, journalists, and rights defenders are greater than they've ever been under Chavez.

The president's power lies in all Venezuelan institutions, the report claims, and HRW has little hope that its report, which provides concrete examples of corruption within the courts, media and military, will change Chavez's policies. The last time HRW issued a damning report on the country, the government allegedly detained and then expelled group representatives by force.



http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/120612-636089-venezuela-ranks-tops-in-corruption-in-hemisphere.htm

Venezuela's budget is secret, its oil earnings are secret, its electoral mechanisms are secret, and its media are largely under government control. Whistle-blowers are hit with draconian punishments. As for the health of the president, who apparently is dying of cancer — well, that's a secret, too.
Meanwhile, a U.K. nongovernment organization, Tax Justice Network, reported that about $400 billion in Venezuelan capital has fled to offshore banks...
Venezuelan oil expert Gustavo Coronel points out that some 1,500 government-linked bankers and government elites have managed to take at least $95 billion of the windfall, while the government has squandered billions more on arms purchases, "free" oil to Cuba, imports of food and now refined oil, and waste associated with newly nationalized state-owned industries.
The lesson here is that large amounts of cash don't create wealth in the hands of strongmen; they create only corruption.Venezuela's descent to rock bottom on TI's rankings is evidence of this massive downward spiral.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/13/world/americas/hugo-chavezs-movement-threatened-by-his-health.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

CARACAS, Venezuela — The bottlenecks at a major port were so bad this year that Christmas trees from Canada were delayed for weeks, and when they did show up they cost hundreds of dollars. A government-run ice cream factory opened with great fanfare, only to shut down a day later because of a shortage of basic ingredients. Foreign currency is so hard to come by that automakers cannot get parts and new cars are almost impossible to buy.

...Mr. Chávez’s own record is mixed. After doing little to address a deep housing shortage, he has given away tens of thousands of homes, but the rush to build meant that many were plagued by construction flaws or other problems. He has used price controls to make food affordable for the poor, but that has contributed to shortages in basic goods. He created a popular program of neighborhood clinics often staffed by Cuban doctors, but hospitals frequently lack basic equipment.

There is no doubt that living conditions have improved for the poor under Mr. Chávez, and that is the greatest source of his popularity. But the improvements came at a time when high oil prices were pouring money into the country and fueling economic growth, which some analysts say would have led to similar improvements under many leaders, even some with more market-friendly policies...

If Mr. Chávez does indeed leave office, whoever replaces him will face a series of economic challenges. Most economists predict growth will slow next year, and some foresee a recession, after a year marked by a huge jump in government spending aimed at getting Mr. Chávez re-elected. An eventual devaluation of the currency, the bolívar, seems likely, and many also expect a rise in the already high inflation rate. The oil industry, the most important sector of the economy and a crucial source of government revenue, is stagnant and needs vast investment to increase production levels.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/7605474/Former-allies-of-Hugo-Chavez-blow-the-whistle-on-corrupt-dynasty.html
Wilmer Azuaje joined Mr Chávez's revolution a decade ago and worked with the president's family to turn their home state of Barinas into a hotbed of political change.
He is now the Chávez family's most outspoken foe. "They turned out to be the most corrupt ever. They betrayed us," he told the Guardian.
Mr Azuaje claims that in Barinas farms, businesses, banks and government contracts have been taken over by the president's parents and five brothers.
The Chavez dynasty certainly has a tight hold over the region. Mr Chávez's father ruled as governor of Barinas, a showcase of the revolution, for a decade until handing over to the president's brother, Adán, in an election marred by fraud allegations.

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Response to MADem (Reply #89)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:04 PM

90. None of those articles provide any real information.

They just reiterate the fact that Venezuela, and indeed all of Latin America, has a high crime rate, which isn't in dispute. Venezuela's murder rate isn't even the highest in the region. A couple of your items mention corruption, but only as far as leveling the vague, unsubstantiated allegations, mostly coming from a disgruntled former associate.

I made it through a fraction of the investors.com article, then closed it in disgust, as it was nothing more than a strident diatribe. You shouldn't waste my time with that sort of crap.

All in all, the information you've posted on this thread is rather thin fare, requiring very little effort, and offering no insight whatsoever.

Problems with Transparency International corruption perception index

Transparency International published its annual corruption perception index (CPI) this week. As this map shows, Ireland ranks very favourably in comparative terms. Since 1995 Ireland has more or less ranked in the top twenty least corrupt countries in the world.

The CPI has been credited widely with putting the issue of corruption on the global policy agenda and raising international awareness about the phenomenon. Nonetheless, the CPI has been the focus of much criticism regarding its methodology (Arndt and Oman 2006; Galtung 2006).

*******

When the CPI and the Global Corruption Barometer are compared with one another, it is obvious that perception and experience of corruption are not the same things. Studies have shown that “the ‘distance’ between opinions and experiences varies haphazardly from country to country” (Abramo 2008, p. 6). Table 1 in the World Bank Report illustrates this point by showing the scores on perceived corruption (CPI column) and experienced corruption (Global Corruption Barometer column) for Turkey and the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom is rated number 11 in the 2006 perception-based CPI, and Turkey is rated number 60.

Apparently, there is a huge gap in the perception of corruption in the two countries, with Turkey being perceived as significantly more corrupt than the United Kingdom. However, when it comes to the experience-based questions on the Global Corruption Barometer, there is little reason to distinguish between the two countries. In both states, 98 percent of the respondents stated that they had not paid any bribe in the past 12 months. In terms of corruption actually experienced, Turkey and the United Kingdom appear to have equally low levels of corruption. The incompatibility of corruption perception with the experience of corruption points to the shortcomings of the perception methodology used.


http://politicalreform.ie/2010/10/27/problems-with-transparency-international-corruption-perception-index/


http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/venezuela-2009-02.pdf?phpMyAdmin=330ac50250f0at3851ad76r2963

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/venezuela-2012-09.pdf

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #90)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:39 PM

91. Yes, they do. They provide a LOT of information--information you, for reasons unclear to me, are

willfully determined to avoid.

And Ireland, FWIW, is NOT Venezuela. Not by a long shot.

Further, CEPR (whose website security certificate is invalid and presents a DANGER warning--you can be sure I'll be running my anti-virus twice tonight ) is a partisan site, it reminds me of the same "rosy scenario" offerings that the Shah of Iran's government presented in the mid-seventies.

The place is corrupt and crime laden. No amount of spin can make that disappear.

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Response to MADem (Reply #91)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:01 AM

92. No, really, they're all very short,

and each one says virtually the same thing as the one preceding it: Venezuela has a high crime rate. You could have posted one of them, and it would have said no less than all of them combined. But that wouldn't be as visually impressive as posting half a dozen or so links, lol.

The article I posted wasn't about Ireland (obviously, you didn't read it), is was about the problems with Transparency International's methodology for ranking corruption. It discusses the flaws of perception based rankings and their very large margins of error. Another problem I have with corruption rankings, is how Western political institutions define corruption, and how they rank its importance in terms of the harm it causes. For instance, I wonder how Transparency International treats the invasion of Iraq or the collapse of the mortgage industry, events that resulted from some serious corruption, and that were FAR more damaging to human society than anything the Venezuelan government might be guilty of. I'll bet I could guess.

I'm still waiting for some specific allegations against President Chavez.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #92)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:11 AM

93. VZ has a high crime rate and is corrupt.

You were suggesting otherwise, and I provided you with documentation.

Now you're complaining about the documentation.

If a leader is not responsible for his nation, who is responsible? It's not like he's been in the job a week--he's had fourteen years to get his shit together. And what has gotten worse? CRIME. And CORRUPTION.

Ever hear the expression "Lead, follow, or get out of the way?" Time for Saint Hugo to get out of the way. He's incapable of leadership. He's wasting the country's resources with frivolous and willy-nilly bribery-spending, he's allowed crime to skyrocket, and his cronies are responsible for the bulk of the corruption in the nation.

The proof you seek is in the pudding that is VZ. Which flavor would you like? Crime? Or Corruption?

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Response to MADem (Reply #93)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:28 PM

94. It will be time for President Chavez to "get out of the way",

when it is the result of Venezuela's verifiable elections, which, sadly, we do not have in our own country.

My flavor is the will of the majority with a side of lower infant mortality rate, topped with a dollop of poverty reduction, and garnished by higher levels of literacy. Delicioso!

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #94)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:32 PM

95. Well, that will happen when the sarcoma has its way with him.

He will not survive this inflated six year term. VZ will be in serious difficulty in the coming year anyway, given all the "people's" cash he poured into "his" campaign.

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Response to MADem (Reply #95)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:49 PM

96. You're right. It's unlikely he'll live much longer.

All of Latin America has been in serious difficulty for a long time, though, as a result of US policy doctrines, like the Monroe Doctrine and the Roosevelt Corollary, that enshrine racist/imperialist attitudes as the framework for US foreign policy in that region. The resulting inequality is what creates the need for charismatic leaders, like Chavez.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #96)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:43 PM

97. We're no saints, but Chavez has had the deck and con for fourteen years.

There comes a point in time when the Captain has to be master of his ship and he can't blame "that guy over there" for what ails him. What happens in VZ now is ON HIM. It's not the "evil USA" that is engendering corruption and crime in that country--it's the policies set by the Dear Leader, the cronyism, the "no rule but my rule," and the freedom that his pals feel to just take what they want because they know there will be no consequences so long as they're on Hugo's team. That "racist/imperialist" line is passe. Hugo owns the mess HE, all by himself, made.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #39)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:44 PM

63. Chavismo is responsible for the rise of the Boligarchs.

The Boligarchs are protected by the Venezuelan government in exchange for political and material support. Just look at Venevision owned by the billionaire Gustavo Cisneros who was actually responsible for the 2002 coup.

Want free money? Sell your failing corporation to the Venezuelan government. Pow, you just cashed out as the company was going under and the Venezuelan tax payers have to take the brunt of it.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #63)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:17 AM

66. Boligarchs--what a clever and expressive way of putting it. Sums it up perfectly.

The friends can sell their failing business, and the enemies with a good business might have theirs taken from them. It's an unsustainable model over the long haul.

Chavez's personal touch and charisma aren't things that can be passed on to the next guy. I don't know what the future will bring for those poor folks, but it will be interesting to watch.

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Response to MADem (Reply #66)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:07 PM

69. The twenty years preceding the Bolivarian government

saw nothing but extreme poverty and economic decline. Almost immediately after the election of Hugo Chavez, the decline was reversed. In 2004, after the government gained control of the oil industry, Venezuela experienced one of the fastest examples of economic growth in history, coinciding with dramatic reductions in the infant mortality rate and extreme poverty. Over all, during the last ten years, the Venezuelan economy has grown faster than most. The people there, are far better off now.

Your shrill, bombastic, hand-waving characterizations are pure nonsense.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #69)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:07 PM

70. It was reversed? Doesn't look that way to me.

The poverty is still overwhelming--it's just a bit more genteel, with free cell phones and nominal pay rises. It hasn't been "reversed." Shortages of basic, essential goods are still a real problem.

I haven't called you any names and I don't intend to start now. Odd that you have a need to call me "shrill, bombastic, and hand waving" when I say something you don't like.

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Response to MADem (Reply #70)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:35 PM

71. I posted links to detailed analysis of the Venezuelan economy.

If you claim to not see impressive growth and dramatic improvement in the lives of the working class and poor of Venezuela since Hugo Chavez was elected, then you are simply incapable of looking at this issue objectively. It's just that simple.

Odd indeed.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #71)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:49 PM

73. Crime is rampant. Murder is common. When you're dead, your life is not "much improved."

When you can't buy foodstuffs because the shelves in the markets are empty, that's not 'impressive growth"--it's dysfunction. When Columbia and Mexico are "peaceful" compared to VZ, that's a real problem, and one that is getting worse.

I would certainly call those figures "impressive" and "dramatic," but not in the way you intend.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/10/2012101817912697153.html

Caracas, Venezuela - With some 19,336 murders last year, Venezuela has become one of the western hemisphere's most violent countries and one particular criminology expert had a front row seat the other day, experiencing the overwhelming insecurity first-hand when robbers stuck a gun in his face as he rode home on the bus.

"Several men came onto the bus with guns," said the expert, a professor at a major Caracas university, who did not want his name used for fear of violent reprisal. "They took everyone's money. It wasn't rich people riding on the bus - it was poor people trying to get home from work," he told Al Jazeera.

With an average of 53 murders per day in 2011, according to the Venezuelan Observatory on Violence, a watch-dog group, the country has a murder rate of about 67 per 100,000 inhabitants. Neighbouring Colombia, in contrast, has a murder rate of 38 per 100,000 while Mexico - where some regions are gripped by deadly drug violence - has a rate of about 15 per 100,000.


...Between 1999 and 2011, the Bolivarian Republic experienced more than 144,294 murders, according to Paz Activa, a security organisation, and the murder rate has increased more than three-fold since Chavez took office.



Also, the only way Chavez can get a handle on historic problems with inflation (which impacts earning power to no small degree) is through price controls, which then create scarcities. You can't eat the oil money given to you by the state, or that free cellphone:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/21/world/americas/venezuela-faces-shortages-in-grocery-staples.html?pagewanted=all

Some residents arrange their calendars around the once-a-week deliveries made to government-subsidized stores like this one, lining up before dawn to buy a single frozen chicken before the stock runs out. Or a couple of bags of flour. Or a bottle of cooking oil.

The shortages affect both the poor and the well-off, in surprising ways. A supermarket in the upscale La Castellana neighborhood recently had plenty of chicken and cheese — even quail eggs — but not a single roll of toilet paper. Only a few bags of coffee remained on a bottom shelf.

Asked where a shopper could get milk on a day when that, too, was out of stock, a manager said with sarcasm, “At Chávez’s house.”

At the heart of the debate is President Hugo Chávez’s socialist-inspired government, which imposes strict price controls that are intended to make a range of foods and other goods more affordable for the poor. They are often the very products that are the hardest to find.


It's an unsustainable model. It's not "dramatic improvement"--it's a willy-nilly series of appeasement and crowd-riling tactics by Chavez, economic tinkering that is more about denying enemies power and accruing it for himself, and the only long term strategizing seemed more concerned with his own political viability, not a downstream vision for the nation. If that were the case, there'd be no concern about who would succeed him. The fact that there is suggests that his leadership is more "Cult of Personality" than anything else.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #71)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:24 PM

78. Brazil and Chile were far more impressive than Venezuela.

I mean, if you look at the resources that both countries had at their disposal, Venezuela was not the best outcome.



Note the 4th Q, that's where the rise of the Boligarchs happened (and if you look at the 5th Q the richest of the rich were fine):



And, this is all with a massive boon in commodity trade (oil for Venezuela, it hit over $100 a barrel):



PDF: http://www.cgdev.org/files/1425092_file_Birdsall_Lustig_McLeod_FINAL.pdf

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #69)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:21 PM

77. Poverty was reduced throughout all of Latin America.

It wasn't just confined to the "socialist" or "populist" states. In fact, the social democracies were more effective at doing it without creating a boligarchical class of people who steal money from the people.

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Response to MADem (Reply #66)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:07 PM

76. It's a term used by Venezuelans, even Chavez has used it, they have no problem admitting it.

Because that's what they want. Chavez calls out the Boligarchs, but it's all a show, there's nothing being done about them, at all.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #76)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:00 PM

80. I love DU--I learn something new every day!

That was a new one to me!

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Response to MADem (Reply #80)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:27 PM

82. Video by Al Jazeera about the Boligarchs:



They're in denial. Cronyism goes deep.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #82)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:37 PM

83. Fascinating...and disturbing. Thanks for that; it was very ... instructive!! nt

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Response to mecherosegarden (Reply #21)


Response to Mr.Turnip (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:06 AM

16. Two words. n/t

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Response to Mr.Turnip (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:41 AM

17. Chavez fans are really fans of Venezuelan democracy;

the right of the majority of Venezuelans to determine their own political/economic destiny, without interference from self-serving foreign powers. The fans regularly cite the transparent election system, as well as the dramatic improvements under Chavez, evidenced by social indicators, like the reduction in the infant mortality rate and extreme poverty, and the availability of health care services and literacy programs.

Your subject line seems to indicate that you do have strong opinion on this issue.

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Response to Mr.Turnip (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:52 AM

19. Try reading "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein before you call us Chavez fans. We are instead

fans of freedom.

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Response to Mr.Turnip (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 12:58 PM

58. Why support Chavez?

 

What happened to "liberal" politics? He isn't bad for a dictator, but his status as a hero here is ridiculous.

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Response to randomtagger (Reply #58)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 01:36 PM

59. Not everyone here considers him a hero

but I don't wish anyone cancer or death.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #59)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:07 PM

62. I know, but..

 

it's kind of hard for me to tell if Chavez is a good guy or a bad guy. He is a dictator that resists democracy, yet he cares about his people and their well-being to at least some degree.

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Response to randomtagger (Reply #62)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:32 PM

79. You have no idea of what you're talking about.

You're just parroting what you've heard from right wing sources. Don't you have the slightest bit of embarrassment or shame? He's not a dictator, and I wish you and the rest of the fucking intellectually lazy morons who keep repeating that meme would shut up.

Find out what you're talking about before you start flapping your gums, okay? You don't want to seem really stupid, do you?

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:45 AM

15. Hugo Chavez says he needs cancer surgery again, names VP successor if illness worsens

Hugo Chavez says he needs cancer surgery again, names VP successor if illness worsens
IAN JAMES Associated Press
3:27 a.m. EST, December 9, 2012

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is heading back to Cuba on Sunday for more surgery for cancer, announcing on television that the illness has returned after two previous operations, chemotherapy and radiation treatment.

Chavez acknowledged the seriousness of his situation in an address Saturday night, saying for the first time that if he suffers complications Vice President Nicolas Maduro should take his place as Venezuela's leader and continue his socialist movement.

"There are risks. Who can deny it?" Chavez said, seated at the presidential palace beside Maduro and other aides.

"In any circumstance, we should guarantee the advance of the Bolivarian Revolution," Chavez said.

More:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/nationworld/sns-ap-lt-venezuela-chavez-20121208,0,987704.story

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:55 AM

20. Glad to hear that he is trying to prepare them for the oppression from the corporations that is most

likely going to happen.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:00 PM

27. Why is he rather than the constitution naming a successor? (nt)

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Response to Recursion (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:17 PM

30. Take the time to read the article FIRST before attempting to insinuate he's out of line.. n/t

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Response to Recursion (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:59 PM

35. Hmmm, Vice-President? What is that?!

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 07:43 AM

45. Clearly a title only given in dictatorships...

 

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #35)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 04:08 AM

55. VP in Venezuela only takes power if the President dies in the last 2 years of office.

Chavez was naming a political successor, that is, one that will go and run in the PSUV party, he clearly does not think he has 4 years left in him.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #27)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 04:06 AM

54. He's naming a political successor, yeah, it's weird, but they needed to pick someone.

Because he has this massive, massive, just overwhelming cult of personality around him, by saying who he would like to be the political head, he is giving said person a good boost.

Of course, unlike the opposition unity party in Venezuela, it is unlikely the PSUV will have a primary election so that the people who voted for the party last time can actually choose their candidate. But that's par for the course.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #27)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:28 AM

67. If he dies soon there will be new elections...assuming rule of law is followed.

I think what he's doing is saying "back this guy."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/09/hugo-chavez-cancer-political-weapon

But the signs look grim. Other analysts say the biggest issue facing Venezuela is whether the governing block can remain united if Chávez dies or is unable to lead. Javier Corrales, professor of politics at Amherst College in Massachusetts, US, said this is the most serious test for the government since 2004. "Chávez has never prepared his party, let alone his nation, for a successor.

"The party leaders are not clear among themselves about whom deserves to be the successor … If he withdraws, no one knows how this inevitable tension will be solved."

Until now, Chávez and his aides have stifled discussion about what might happen if the president died. That was largely because this has been an election year and the ruling party did not want voters to think they might ultimately be casting ballots for a second-in-command. But by naming a successor, Chávez has raised the possibility that he might not last another 30 days until his scheduled inauguration on 10 January, in which case another presidential election would have to be called.

"It is my firm opinion, my complete and irrevocable opinion, that under this scenario, you should all vote for Nicolás," he said in Saturday's televised address."

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 07:39 AM

43. I only hope that his VP is a man who cannot be bought out by the corporatists.

The people should be organizing right now to advance their own interests and ensure that the US does not intervene to destabalize their country. Thanks to Hugo, a lot of poor people were kept warm in the cold regions of the US when our own government could not or would not help them. Our own government seems not to be able to fight our corporations but other governments can.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #43)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 04:11 AM

56. His VP is a raging homophobe as are a huge number of chavistas.

Maduro is an enigma of sorts he rose through the ranks through loyalty and helping secure a political future for Chavez. If you want more Aban Pearls, Maduro might just be your man.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #56)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 03:17 PM

74. Wasn't that VZ's Deepwater Horizon "BP moment?"

Not too promising...

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Response to MADem (Reply #74)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:06 PM

75. BP + Enron moment. Combined.

Some people set up a shell company that took $700 million from the Venezuelan people. Less than a dozen people were in on it. No accountability. The Venezuelan government didn't even investigate.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #75)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:02 PM

81. Imagine what could be done with seven hundred million...a real shame. nt

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:54 PM

22. Oh No!

Get well, Hugo!

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:39 PM

25. Good thing he's going to Cuba for treatment.

The health care trains always run on time there.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:53 PM

26. Cancer is an awful thing to have

But really the blind defense of a man on this board who has both claimed to support and by his continued presence as leader of Venezuela done otherwise is kind of silly. He's not anti-capitalism so long as the ones doing the "capitalizing" are the government.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:06 PM

28. Best wishes to him.

He's fought very hard and I hope, is successful this time too. Winning the election ensured the continuation of programs and policies that have made him beloved to so many Venezuelans for at least a while longer. Whatever happens ...... he's changed the lives of millions for the better ... and I admire him very, very much.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:09 PM

29. I don't think it ever left.

I had a friend who died of cancer--they can only knock it back so long, especially if it's all through the lymph nodes.

It's a balancing act to try to keep the cancer at bay with chemo and radiation, like a lion tamer with a chair and a whip and no way out of the cage. Eventually, that lion is going to have dinner.

Since he has named his successor, I'd say he's been given a timeline, and it might be shorter than he's telling anyone:

Chávez, who was recently re-elected for a fourth period, also said that if he were unable to assume power in the near future Venezuelans should vote for Maduro in the elections that according to the Constitution must be called in the 30 days following a declared absence.

Nicolas Maduro, who began his political career as a union leader for bus drivers, is currently minister of foreign affairs, and is the first person to have been named a successor in the 18 months since Chávez has been fighting cancer.

"If something were to happen that would make it impossible for me to be president, Nicolas Maduro should assume power for the short time left in this term. But also, it is my firm opinion, my complete and irrevocable opinion, that under this scenario, you should all vote for Nicolas", he said.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/09/hugo-chavez-cancer-returned-venezuela

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:29 PM

32. Hugo Chávez names successor after confirming need for cancer surgery

The Venezuelan president, Hugo Chávez, has for the first time designated a successor, after admitting he needs to undergo another operation for cancer and may be unable to return to power.

Chávez is to return to Havana to undergo surgery for a fourth time and said in a broadcast late on Saturday night that he wished his vice-president, Nicolás Maduro, to be his successor.

The announcement comes two months after the charismatic leader, who had declared himself free of cancer in July, was re-elected for a fourth term in October by a comfortable margin.

"There are risks. Who can deny it?" said Chávez, seated at the presidential palace alongside Maduro. "In any circumstance, we should guarantee the advance of the Bolivarian revolution" ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/09/hugo-chavez-names-successor-cancer-surgery

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:56 PM

33. Kick (nt)

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 07:44 PM

34. The problems Venezuela has with poverty and crime...

are due to decades of political and economic oppression and wage slavery. Violence against workers unions, peasant farmers, student groups, you name it, it's in their history. Just like Obama, Chavez inherited a mess that will take longer than his legacy to fix.

Chavez might not be perfect but in the wake of the disastrous Perez presidency, he looks like a saint. His opponent in the last election wanted to take land from farmers and give it to English royalty. Of course Chavez won in a landslide. If the opposition wants to beat whoever ends up leading his party, they need to come up with a whole different platform, and present a whole different candidate. Not just run the best looking guy from the wealthy establishment, which is ironically what our conservatives did too.

And just like conservatives here, they probably don't think they need to change anything. The parallels between our two countries are comical.

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:33 PM

60. I agree with you. nt

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:23 PM

36. Before More Cancer Surgery, Chávez Had Some Political Fences to Mend at Home

Before More Cancer Surgery, Chávez Had Some Political Fences to Mend at Home



Isaac Urrutia/Reuters

Followers of President Hugo Chávez showed steadfast support on Sunday in central Caracas.

By WILLIAM NEUMAN
Published: December 9, 2012


LA PAZ, Bolivia — President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela has flown repeatedly to Cuba this year for cancer treatments, but the flight that took him back to Caracas on Friday may have been the most meaningful of all.

Mr. Chávez postponed emergency cancer surgery to return home, meet with his inner circle and announce on television on Saturday, for the first time, that he had picked the man he wanted to lead his socialist revolution when he is gone — something he seemed to suggest might come sooner than his millions of followers would hope.

He was scheduled to fly to Cuba again on Sunday night to prepare for surgery.

Mr. Chávez could well recover and remain a potent force, but on Saturday night he seemed intent on smoothing over factions within his party and solidifying support for the man he chose to succeed him, Vice President Nicolás Maduro.

Mr. Chávez, 58, spoke the word “unity” several times during Saturday’s somber, symbolically weighted appearance. To his left sat Mr. Maduro, and behind both of them viewers could see a bust of Mr. Chávez’s hero, the South American independence leader Simón Bolívar (who never realized his dream of unifying a fractious continent).

More:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/10/world/americas/chavez-put-party-unity-before-another-cancer-surgery.html

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:33 AM

40. I have changed my mind on Chavez

I used to be one of the DU'ers that suporeted him. Until I met my fiance. She's a Venezuelan American, extremely liberal, pro-Obama, and she hates Chavez, as quite a few Venezuelans do, I'm learning. She opened my eyes, to what's really going on there, and it ain't no liberal paradise.

Chavez is a con man. I will never speak positively of him again.

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Response to Downtown Hound (Reply #40)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:57 AM

41. Don't recall ever seeing you speaking up as one who supports the progress made already

for what was a MASSIVE poor population in Venezuela, people who have among them so many adults and older people who learned to read for the first time in their lives after the missions were created to bring literacy to the entire population rather than only those born among the much smaller elite sector of Venezuelan society.

Democrats have ALWAYS supported public education for ALL people, as well as access to medical treatment, fair work standards, etc., etc., etc.

As Democrats know, there are a lot of right-wingers posing as Democrats who butt in only to try to devaluate, mock, smear, and malign those leaders and strong, moral people who absolutely believe life must be somehow decent for all, not only the greedy assholes who run right over everyone in their road, and fight to keep others away from any chance of a peaceful life.

Do you, by any chance, know where one might see one of your former moments of "speaking positively of him"?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 08:54 AM

47. who cares? He has since come around to seeing the light

Obama is the leader of the Democrats, not Chavez.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:48 AM

49. Don't really care if you ever recall me speaking positively of him

But I did. And I don't care enough about your post to bother combing through posts I made years ago. Have a nice day.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #41)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 01:59 AM

53. LOL - at least it's a new variation of the same theme!

"I live in Venezuela" is getting kind of tired.

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Response to Downtown Hound (Reply #40)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 09:31 AM

48. How true. You should have never suporeted him.

I hate it when people suporete me! Ouch!

("I used to be one of the DU'ers that suporeted him.")

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 07:45 AM

46. I didn't have much of an opinion about him until I saw "The War on Democracy"

 

And learned much of what we're supposed to dislike about him is Western propaganda.

I wish him well.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 01:15 AM

51. OH crap

You do realize, if Chavez dies, we will be in there in 5 minutes to pick his successor.

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