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Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:32 AM

November payroll employment rises (+146,000); unemployment rate edges down (7.7%)

Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION -- NOVEMBER 2012

Total nonfarm payroll employment rose by 146,000 in November, and the unemployment
rate edged down to 7.7 percent, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today.
Employment increased in retail trade, professional and business services, and health
care.
....

Household Survey Data

The unemployment rate edged down to 7.7 percent in November. The number of unemployed
persons, at 12.0 million, changed little. (See table A-1.)

Among the major worker groups, the unemployment rates for adult men (7.2 percent), adult
women (7.0 percent), teenagers (23.5 percent), whites (6.8 percent), and Hispanics (10.0
percent) showed little or no change in November. The unemployment rate for blacks (13.2
percent) declined over the month. The jobless rate for Asians was 6.4 percent (not
seasonally adjusted), little changed from a year earlier. (See tables A-1, A-2, and A-3.)

The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks or more) was little
changed at 4.8 million in November. These individuals accounted for 40.1 percent of
the unemployed. (See table A-12.)



Read more: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm



Good morning, Freepers and DUers alike. I especially welcome viewers from across the aisle. You're paying for this information too, so you ought to see this as much as anyone. Please, everyone, put aside your differences long enough to digest the information. After that, you can engage in your usual donnybrook.

What is important about these statistics is not so much this month’s number, but the trend. Let’s look at some earlier numbers.

ADP, for employment in November:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014326586
U.S. Economy Added 118,000 Private-Sector Jobs in November, According to ADP National Employment Rep

ADP, for employment in October:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014286714
U.S. Economy Added 158,000 Private-Sector Jobs in October, According to ADP National Employment Report

BLS, for employment in September:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=256565
U.S. Economy Added 114,000 Jobs In September, Unemployment Falls To 7.8%

and

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=256816
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics - The Employment Situation - September 2012

The charge was made that September’s BLS numbers were cooked. A fellow who used to head the BLS says this is not possible.

Impossible to Manipulate Labor Survey Data — Former BLS Head
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/10/05/impossible-to-manipulate-labor-survey-data-former-bls-head/

By Geoffrey Rogow

Even if the U.S. government wanted to manipulate monthly jobs figures, it would be impossible to accomplish, said a former head of the U.S. government’s labor statistics agency.
….

But, Keith Hall, who served as Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics from 2008 until 2012, said in an interview Friday that there is no way someone at the agency could change any of the data from its two monthly employment surveys. The significant improvement in the unemployment rate may reflect normal statistical errors in the sampling process, he said, but that has nothing to do with manipulation.
….

Mr. Hall said the inconsistent reports reflect the different samples used in the two surveys, one focused on households the other on businesses. The establishment survey has a huge sample size of 141,000 business and agencies covering 486,000 worksites, whereas the household survey covers just 60,000 homes.

“The household survey is much smaller. When you look at something like labor force and employment levels, the uncertainty of those numbers is much larger,” said Mr. Hall. “Within two months, the household survey could show the unemployment rate eking back up.”
….

–Eric Morath contributed to this article.


ADP, for employment in September:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014254238
U.S. Private-Sector Employment Increased by 162,000 Jobs in September, According to ADP

BLS, for employment in August:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014221739
August payroll employment rises (+96,000); unemployment rate edges down (8.1%)

An increase of 96,000 is really lackluster. It's not just lackluster, but, as the first response says, "disappointing." It's half the ADP estimate. Here is a quote from yesterday's ADP news release:

August 2012 Report

Employment in the U.S. nonfarm private business sector increased by 201,000 from July to August, on a seasonally adjusted basis. The estimated gain from June to July was revised up from the initial estimate of 163,000 to 173,000. Employment in the private, service-providing sector expanded 185,000 in August, up from 156,000 in July. Employment in the private, goods-producing sector added 16,000 jobs in August. Manufacturing employment rose 3,000, following an increase of 6,000 in July.


ADP, for employment in August:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014220380
The ADP National Employment Report August 2012

BLS, for employment in July:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014184289
July payroll employment rises (+163,000); jobless rate essentially unchanged (8.3%)

ADP, for employment in July. I heard an estimate earlier this morning that the growth in employment would be on the order of 100,000.

The ADP National Employment Report July 2012

BLS, for employment in June:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014160067
Payroll employment continues to edge up in June (+80,000); jobless rate unchanged (8.2%)

Of particular importance for the BLS estimate for June was this article from that day’s Wall Street Journal.

Unemployment Line Longer Than It Looks‎

AHEAD OF THE TAPE
Updated July 5, 2012, 7:26 p.m. ET

By SPENCER JAKAB Here is a statistic for the politically inclined: No incumbent president has won re-election with an unemployment rate above 7.2% since the Great Depression.

Economists expect Friday's release of June employment data will show 95,000 new jobs added. Meantime, the unemployment rate is seen unchanged at 8.2%. That may be bittersweet or just plain bitter depending on one's political slant, but it is difficult to reconcile today's rate with past periods.

The headline unemployment rate has been flattered by the number of people no longer counted in the denominator used to calculate it. For example, a comparison of jobs data between the start and end of 2011 shows the ranks of the unemployed fell by 822,000 while the number of people not in the labor force grew by a larger 1.24 million. The unemployment rate fell by 0.6 percentage points over that time to 8.5%.

In fact, the participation rate—the share of the working-age population either working or looking for work—has fallen by 2.3 percentage points over the four years through May to 63.8%, a three-decade low. Nearly 88 million people—about seven times the ranks of the officially unemployed—aren't part of the headline rate's calculation.


Hmmm. Give that some thought. Also, when May'’s figures were released, Judson Phillips of Tea Party Nation was on Tom Hartmann that Friday night. He kept referring to the "U-6 Number." That can be found in Table A15. It is "Total unemployed, plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force." It appears in two forms, seasonally adjusted and non-seasonally adjusted. Either way, it is the least optimistic of all the estimates.

Thanks to DUer alp227, you can watch Judson Phillips’s appearance on Tom Hartmannn here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014184289#post12

ADP, for employment in June:

ADP jobs up 176,000 (for June)

BLS, for employment in May:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014133487
May payroll employment changes little (+69,000); jobless rate essentially unchanged (8.2%)

ADP, for employment in May:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014132307
May change in employment +133,000

BLS, for employment in April:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014113023
Payroll employment rises 115,000 in April; unemployment rate changes little (8.1%)

ADP and Gallup, for employment in April:

There were four related threads about the April jobs estimate at DU already. Three are in General Discussion, and they are based on the figures from ADP. The fourth, in LBN, paints a contrasting picture. It relies on the figures from Gallup.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002635553
Per CNBC - ADP Numbers bad, posted by Laura PourMeADrink

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002635507
BAD: ADP JOBS REPORT MISSES EXPECTATIONS BY A MILE, posted by xchrom

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002635837
ADP & TrimTabs Showing Much Weaker Payrolls Ahead of Unemployment Report, posted by marmar

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014111465
U.S. Job Creation Nears Four-Year High, posted by brooklynite

There's a joke about economists in there somewhere.

March, BLS:

Payroll employment rises 120,000 in March; unemployment rate changes little (8.2%)
March, ADP:

Businesses Adding 209,000 New Jobs Last Month Fail To Ignite Market Rally

February, ADP:

ADP Estimates U.S. Companies Added 216,000 Jobs in February, posted by Gruntled Old Man

One more thing:

So how many jobs must be created every month to have an effect on the unemployment rate? There's an app for that.

http://www.frbatlanta.org/chcs/calculator/index.cfm
Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta Jobs Calculator™

Well, enough of that. On with the show.

Monthly Employment Reports

The large print giveth, and the fine print taketh away.

A DU'er pointed out several months ago that, if I'm going to post the link to the press release, I should include the link to all the tables that provide additional ways of examining the data. Specifically, I should post a link to "Table A-15. Alternative measures of labor underutilization." Table A-15 includes those who are not considered unemployed, on the grounds that they have become discouraged about the prospects of finding a job and have given up looking. Here are those links.

Employment Situation

Table A-15. Alternative measures of labor underutilization

From the February 10, 2011, "DOL Newsletter":

Take Three

Secretary Solis answers three questions about how the Bureau of Labor Statistics calculates unemployment rates.

How does BLS determine the unemployment rate and the number of jobs that were added each month?

BLS uses two different surveys to get these numbers. The "household survey," or Current Population Survey (CPS), involves asking people, from about 60,000 households, a series of questions to assess each person in the household's activities including work and searching for work. Their responses give us the unemployment rate. The "establishment survey," or Current Employment Statistics (CES), surveys 140,000 employers about how many people they have on their payrolls. These results determine the number of jobs being added or lost.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply November payroll employment rises (+146,000); unemployment rate edges down (7.7%) (Original post)
mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2012 OP
shawn703 Dec 2012 #1
bhikkhu Dec 2012 #10
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2012 #13
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #2
Arkana Dec 2012 #3
Javaman Dec 2012 #4
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #5
question everything Dec 2012 #14
fasttense Dec 2012 #6
John2 Dec 2012 #11
riderinthestorm Dec 2012 #7
DallasNE Dec 2012 #8
onehandle Dec 2012 #9
Kingofalldems Dec 2012 #12
jpak Dec 2012 #15
DavidDvorkin Dec 2012 #16
jpak Dec 2012 #18
kaspar411 Dec 2012 #17
durablend Dec 2012 #19
briv1016 Dec 2012 #20
RandiFan1290 Dec 2012 #22
LaPera Dec 2012 #21

Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:34 AM

1. Republicans are furious. N/T

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Response to shawn703 (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:24 AM

10. I asked a couple (R)'s yesterday how they explained the good numbers

as they were droning on and on about how things were going down the drain, things were turning the corner into a mess even a republican couldn't fix, the recession never ended and Obama has made it worse and worse, etc...

They just comfortably replied "the numbers are fake".

Oh well...the frustrating thing is this is my boss included in the conversation, who's business has increased regularly 10% a year since 2006, but who went backwards this year because of one big lost account. I have a list of doable things to pick up the numbers, but he's so invested in doom-think he's not doing anything.

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Response to shawn703 (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:54 AM

13. Yes they are.

I love the sound of right wing heads popping.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:36 AM

2. Watching CNBC. They are horribly biased! They're not even trying. They are upset that

numbers are up. They thought that the numbers would be bad due to Sandy. And they are speculating whether the government was telling the truth about the numbers. It might as well be Fox News this morning.

The only saving grace is Jared Bernstein. Other than that, they are so transparent in their disappointment that the numbers are better than expected, asserting that numbers will be adjusted next month and that they will be bad.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:39 AM

3. Oh yeah--I almost forgot about this.

Good to see we're still trending up.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:48 AM

4. That's not bubblewrap you hear popping...

that's freepers heads.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:59 AM

5. Clearly ACORN cooked the books!!

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:58 AM

14. Or the dept. of labor statistics

as was claimed before..

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:01 AM

6. Well it's good there is some improvement

but the jobs that are being added are minimum wage service industry jobs. You can't send cleaning your toilet to India to outsource.

And something interesting I've noticed: "The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks or more) was little changed at 4.8 million in November. These individuals accounted for 40.1 percent of
the unemployed.
(See table A-12.)

40 percent of the unemployed are long term unemployed. Interesting. So, people who did not get a job right away after losing their jobs to the RepubliCON Great Depression, pretty well have NO chance of ever getting a job again. I wonder if these people were the vast majority of Mitt's 47%?

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Response to fasttense (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:30 AM

11. Are these the people

 

the Republicans suggest we cut their extended benefits on? One negative report also points to construction, would it be logical to pass the stimulus portion of President Obama's proposal, instead of criticizing it? The bottomline with me is let the President lead and implement the Policies, that he ran on and let him own it. That is what we have done with President Reagan, George W. Bush And George H. Bush. Why do the Republicans put up such road blocks with Democratic Presidents? If it doesn't work, then come back and run on the issues in four years.

It does you no good to keep the President from implementing his Policies as soon as he is elected and then come back later, to say he failed. That is the problem we have here. Saying the President has no mandate, as soon as he wins the election, is a non start period. Every thing that Boehner is pushing, was litigated in the Election period. The media in particular needs to shut up if they don't criticize the real problem here. They were not elected to any thing either and has no business trying to influence any Policies by constantly blaming President Obama. The Republicans need to quit using the media for their crying too. And I'm really tired of them giving people like Norquist a pulpit, every time he request one. Why don't they just ignore him and he will disappear?

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:34 AM

7. This is an excellent post. K&R for a more thorough read later. nt

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:40 AM

8. Considering Sandy, I Think This Is A Very Good Number

Perhaps it is still too early to accurately measure the results stemming from Sandy too so we may see something in the December numbers to clear up the picture. I certainly wasn't expecting anything close to 146,000 jobs added for November.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:09 AM

9. Imagine how good the numbers would be without our teabagger Congress.

Again, I blame lazy Obama voters who failed to support the President in 2010.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:34 AM

12. Republicans not liking this one

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:49 PM

15. Not good news for the Doomer Obama Haters

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:36 PM

16. They seem to have faded away a bit

I hope it's not a temporary lull.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:41 PM

18. Obama won and did not fail

yup

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:38 PM

17. Get Out Of The Way Republican Scumbags

 

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:06 PM

19. No doubt cooked to help Obama win the election!

But it won't work, libtards!

Oh....right.....CRAP!!!!!

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:56 PM

20. To be fair,

September' numbers were revised from +148,000 to +132,000 and October's numbers were revised from +171,000 to +138,000. Taken with the +146,000 for November you get +97,000 net gain.

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Response to briv1016 (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 04:43 AM

22. awww

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:32 AM

21. Next month (after 33 straight month's of job growth) Obama will have lowered

unemployment less than when he took office (not to mention the republicans doing everything possible to sabotage & obstruct job growth).

Next month 34 straight months of job growth the unemployment rate will be lower than when Obama took office...

Romney and the republicans ran, saying job & economic growth wasn't fast enough....(never mentioning the sabotage & obstruction)....or what they would do to stimulate growth except to cut taxes for the rich, deregulations for the corporations & the banksters as well as more billion for the Pentagon wars for corporate profits...same old, same old republican bullshit.

Yet we are indeed on the right track thanks to Obama & the democrats.....

To think that if Romney had won we'd be going right back where Bush took us (EXACT same policies) as the rich and the corporations get wealthier and stronger - the 1% would be driving us into the ground....as our tax dollars would be paying for more of their record wealth.

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