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Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:07 AM

At Boehner’s Request, He and Obama Negotiate Alone

Source: The New York Times

WASHINGTON — At House Speaker John A. Boehner’s request, Senate leaders and Representative Nancy Pelosi have been excluded from talks to avert a fiscal crisis, leaving it to Mr. Boehner and President Obama alone to find a deal, Congressional aides say.

All sides, even the parties excluded, say clearing the negotiating room improves the chance of success. It adds complexity as the two negotiators consult separately with the leaders not in the room. But it also minimizes the number of people who need to say yes to an initial agreement.

...

This time, while Mr. Boehner has made himself the sole focal point, aides say he has made sure a broad leadership team is behind him. He meets every morning while the House is in session with the full slate of Republican leaders, as well as the committee chairmen who would most likely implement a deal: Representative Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, who heads the Budget Committee; Representative Dave Camp of Michigan, who leads the Ways and Means Committee; and Representative Fred Upton of Michigan, who heads the Energy and Commerce Committee.

White House officials have begun daily conference calls with the communications staffs of Mr. Reid and Ms. Pelosi. The White House communications director, Dan Pfeiffer, met with the Senate Democratic Caucus last week, and the director of the National Economic Council, Gene Sperling, spoke with the House Democrats late last month.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/07/us/politics/at-boehners-request-he-and-obama-negotiate-alone.html



Not sure what to think of this. I hope we don't learn of a deal to cut entitlements too late to act. On the other hand, maybe when it's just the two of them they will be able to negotiate more easily. For reasons I will lay out tomorrow (or sometime after exams), I have come to believe that a deal might still be the best option, even if it involves some entitlement reform, if it involves raising taxes on the rich and putting in place a mechanism like the McConnell rule to prevent further showdowns over the debt ceiling, for which the GOP will continue to extra huge cuts.

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Reply At Boehner’s Request, He and Obama Negotiate Alone (Original post)
democrattotheend Dec 2012 OP
msanthrope Dec 2012 #1
bulloney Dec 2012 #22
Thor_MN Dec 2012 #25
Myrina Dec 2012 #39
grasswire Dec 2012 #2
PoliticAverse Dec 2012 #5
msongs Dec 2012 #3
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #4
wtmusic Dec 2012 #6
jerseyjack Dec 2012 #17
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #30
Myrina Dec 2012 #40
Vincardog Dec 2012 #46
wordpix Dec 2012 #24
dballance Dec 2012 #7
The Second Stone Dec 2012 #8
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #9
jerseyjack Dec 2012 #18
dotymed Dec 2012 #31
DallasNE Dec 2012 #10
Jackpine Radical Dec 2012 #42
DallasNE Dec 2012 #55
JI7 Dec 2012 #11
LeftInTX Dec 2012 #44
SamKnause Dec 2012 #12
quaker bill Dec 2012 #13
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #20
quaker bill Dec 2012 #47
Kolesar Dec 2012 #21
nenagh Dec 2012 #23
Justice Dec 2012 #14
Sunlei Dec 2012 #15
cstanleytech Dec 2012 #28
FailureToCommunicate Dec 2012 #16
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #19
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #26
onehandle Dec 2012 #29
janx Dec 2012 #41
fascisthunter Dec 2012 #54
cstanleytech Dec 2012 #27
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #32
cstanleytech Dec 2012 #50
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #53
cstanleytech Dec 2012 #56
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #58
Nihil Dec 2012 #33
bemildred Dec 2012 #34
ancianita Dec 2012 #35
2Design Dec 2012 #36
olddad56 Dec 2012 #37
bucolic_frolic Dec 2012 #38
former9thward Dec 2012 #52
kaspar411 Dec 2012 #43
Katashi_itto Dec 2012 #45
DCBob Dec 2012 #48
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #51
underpants Dec 2012 #49
southerncrone Dec 2012 #57

Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:11 AM

1. Boehner doesn't want anyone else to see him drunk.....

Seriously...the President is being courteous while he opens the Glenfiddich.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:19 AM

22. Boehner and Obama are not alone. Boehner brings his pal Johnny Walker

The title to this thread reads like a George Thorogood song.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:02 AM

25. Glenfiddich is out, according to Trump...

Trump is banning Glenfiddich because they named Michael Forbes to be "Top Scot". Forbes is the farmer who refused to sell his land to Trump. Trump's tantrum is now removing Glenfiddich from all of his properties. I've been sampling single malts over the last few years - I think it may be time to try a bottle of Glenfiddich.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:11 PM

39. ... drunk, weeping and slurring ...

Hiccup!

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:12 AM

2. the question for me is this:


....is Obama stronger than Pelosi/Reid? I'm not sure about this.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:26 AM

5. Reid - the guy who accepted McConnell's word on the filibuster ?

Pelosi does seem to be on the left of Obama when it comes to entitlement 'reform'.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:17 AM

3. looks like boner won the election nt

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:22 AM

4. Please don't cave.

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:29 AM

6. If Obama caves on the highest rate issue

...nah, not going to go there.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:49 AM

17. Obama already indicates he is gonna cave on SS & Medicare.

 

It was on D.U. all day yesterday.

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Response to jerseyjack (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:44 AM

30. I know. Outrageous, isn't it?

 

If Dick Cheney was the president and was saying that he was going to do this, virtually all of us would be upset by this.

If vote rigging had worked and Romney had been elected, almost all of us would be upset by this as well.

But if a President (whose former Chief of Staff called liberals "fucking retarded") has a big "D" after his name, there will be some who will engage in name calling and make excuses.

If you oppose this, get ready to be called a "purist."

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #30)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:12 PM

40. ^ This, +1000000

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #30)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 03:43 PM

46. Call me a "purist" then.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:54 AM

24. +100000

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:32 AM

7. If Obama's Response to Just About Anything Boner Says

Isn't "Are you freaking serious? Remember you LOST the election by what was called a 'mandate' for W. Bush." Then I'll be very disappointed.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:41 AM

8. Boehner is positioning himself as de facto head of the Republicans

and this implies that McConnell is in the way. I agree on both points. Boehner is the elected Speaker of the House and the highest ranking Republican in Congress. McConnell has only delivered hundreds of filibusters and can't control his loon squad. Boehner has rearranged his committees to his own liking. Not necessarily mine, but I'm not in his party.

Interesting.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:45 AM

9. This is not good for seniors, but I can tell you that Boehner has lots of seniors

in his district. They will be furious if Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid are cut.

This is just not a good situation. Obama is going to have to be tough and I don't know how good he is at that.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:50 AM

18. You are assuming Obama wants to be tough.

 

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:48 AM

31. If nothing else,

we'll find out how second term Obama is going to roll..
If it is not in the interest of the majority, we have to start making plans to field an FDR type of candidate for 2016. This will give us 4 years to prepare. We can't wait til the last moment (again) and choose the lesser of two evils from what our corporate masters allow us to choose from.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 03:40 AM

10. Hmmmm, No Mention Of Senate Involvement

That is sure to ruffle some feathers for sure. My guess is that it will not be a single bill but two, linked bills. One to deal with the revenue side and one to deal with the spending side. The Senate has already passed a bill dealing with the revenue side so I'm guessing the revenue bill will be similar with differences ironed out in a joint conference but following what emerges from this meeting. It could be as minor as spliting the difference on the rate increases but that trade-off will likely mean that Republicans don't get as much on entitlements as they want. Since Boehner sacked 4 people earlier it probably means that he can squeak by in getting the agreed to package passed. Obviously Cantor and Ryan signed off on these sacks. This move also reflects the fact that Boehner and Republicans are losing the PR battle and that is why he wants it off the nightly news cycle. But Obama and his advisors also know what the score is. What matters is not how things happen, but what takes place. Expect few leaks over the next few days.

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:28 PM

42. IIRC, fiscal bills must originate in the House.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #42)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:26 PM

55. That's Why I Said Two Bills

The appropriation (spending) bill must originate in the House.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 03:50 AM

11. does anyone think Boehner Cries to Obama about how the teabaggers and other

extremists in his party are and how they make it tougher for him ?

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Response to JI7 (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:18 PM

44. Yep, that's what I think.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 05:38 AM

12. Meeting

You do not negotiate with someone who is advocating PROVEN FAILED policies.

Facts matter in negotiating.

Personal whims and opinions do not.

The wish list of the lobbyist you represent have no place in these negotiations.

Supply side economics has failed this country miserably.

Stick with the facts and do what has been proven to work time and time again.

Two people can not negotiate when one lives in an alternate universe that has no use for facts, data, charts, grafts, math, or undeniable proof.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:21 AM

13. Boehner has taken a few heads

To assure "loyal soldiers" on the committees. He wants a deal and he wants to show he can pull one off. A one on one meeting can be much more frank about what can happen. Boehner needs to prove that he can pull together a majority that can work with the President and a Dem Senate, or he is useless.

T-party fun and games are over. Their efforts to make the President a one termer failed, and it cost them seats in both houses. The move is on to put the crazy uncle in the attic. All Boehner wants is to be able to say he got something. What he is likely to get is a cut in Medicare based on savings from granting medicare the right to negotiate prescription drug prices that will reduce the costs of delivering the same services.

Obama will get stimulus spending, maintenance of the middle class tax cut, expiration of the Bush* cuts for the wealthy, and the debt limit authority. Boehner in fact does not want to re-do this discussion every 6 months over the debt limit, as each time presents an opportunity for the T-party caucus to flex its control over the agenda and makes Boehner seem less effective. The deal is that the T-party can have a show vote, but loses on the veto override, where they are just a minor rabble.

My personal connections to the R party leadership indicate that the power brokers have taken away a message from the election. Fun and games are over, they need to show up as capable of governing, or the voters will bench them in a bigger way in 2014.

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Response to quaker bill (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:58 AM

20. Ah. Personal ties with Republican mucky mucks. That's good to know...

They are all liars. Procede accordingly.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 05:08 PM

47. Not really

Some are just sort of regular people. You would probably be surprised, but some are just as normal as anyone you might meet. I actually work directly with elected officials of both parties as part of my job on a regular basis. Some in either party are just regular folks, some I would not trust as far as I could throw them.

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Response to quaker bill (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:00 AM

21. negotiate prescription drug prices

That seems like a small victory for the gop. Big Pharma is not going to like that, either.

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:24 AM

23. +1000000

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:41 AM

14. This is no different than the grand bargain negotiating - Boehner agreed to a deal then reneged.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:24 AM

15. Last year Boehner did the same thing, him alone and then quit that deal!

Any meetings should be recorded daily public record. Public benefits like Medicare/SS should be improved, cut the old un-needed military contracts, fraud/unneeded medical contracts, contract for less expensive medications anddd let the Bush tax breaks for the wealthy expire.

The wealthy have made trillions off those tax breaks, enough already!! stop the bleed of America!

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:34 AM

28. If he wants he and his party want to commit seppuku who are we to argue with them?

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:34 AM

16. Drama Queen... or back room deal...

Either way this has a whiff of something rotten in that fiefdom.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:53 AM

19. Last time the Orange One made a deal and then backed out of that deal...

and yet he's setting all the terms alone in a room with a President who used to speak of 'transparency' in government? With only one Party represented from the Hill? Where is the 'bipartisanship' in shutting the Democrats out of this?

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:11 AM

26. Boehner doesn't want his side to hear what he's offering until its too late.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:36 AM

29. Exactly. Boehner can't have the tearacists anywhere nearby if he wants a successful deal. nt

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:17 PM

41. Exactly.

And there's going to be quite a brouhaha when that happens (as if there isn't one already).

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:13 PM

54. lol

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:32 AM

27. I wouldnt object to some changes in the social programs to be honest.

Not saying cuts in service but rather make it even more so that they get coverage based upon their assets and or income and yes assets should in some cases count the family home, after all someone with a place worth $1,000.000.00 probably doesn't need as much assistance as someone who owns a place worth $70,000.00.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:56 AM

32. What are these "some" changes?

 

"Some" changes lead to more changes. Making changes is what politicians do. Making changes leads to campaign contributions. And opportunities for additional financial rewards.

Prior to Reagan, Social Security payments were received tax-free. Reagan lowered Social Security payments under a trick by which he made 50% of Social Security payments subject to taxation when a threshold was met.

That trick wasn't the last time that it was used.

Bill Clinton used it again to reduce Social Security pay-outs. When he used it, he made 85% of Social Security payments subject to taxation when a threshold was met.

"Some" changes? At a minimum, Obama is going to follow the lead of Reagan and Clinton and reduce Social Security payments further by making 100% of Social Security payments subject to taxation under the same conditions.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #32)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:54 PM

50. Just because some poor changes have been done does not and should not = none should be made though.

If we followed the logic that all changes are bad we would still be living in caves and eating uncooked meat.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #50)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:20 PM

53. If we followed the logic that a Grand Bargain will result in good changes, we will see changes made

 

in the direction of reducting benefits and privatizing Social Security.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #53)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:01 AM

56. Yes but I am not saying we should privatize the programs

nor would I support such an effort.
Rather I am saying that some changes may need to be made and that we should remain open to finding ways to make it so the programs can provide at least the current level of service they are providing if not better for those using the programs while making those with the means pay a more fair share.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:28 AM

58. I realize that you are not saying that SS should be privatized. But if we look at what Reagan did

 

by putting the nose of the camel under the tent and using a means test to make 50% of Social Security benefits taxable, inflation has cause a great many people to satisfy the means test and and have their Social Security benefits reduced by being subject to federal taxation.

Once the nose of the camel was under the tent, Clinton then reduced SS benefits by adopting the same approach and reducing SS benefits by making 85% of SS benefits subject to taxation. Once again, inflation has made it easier for many people to have their SS benefits reduced by meeting the means test.

Once again, I fully expect Obama to reduce SS benefits further by raising the 85% number to 100%.

The problem is that those who want to change SS start out with one means test, compromise, then change the formula, then change it again.

The SS cap should be removed. Not modified. Removed. IMO, all estates in excess of $5 million should be subject to a 100% tax as long as we have endless wars plus hungry and homeless people in this country.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:05 AM

33. Blackmail? Threats? Plausible deniability?

Strikes me as an odd request to make unless there was something that
*really* had to be kept out of the light for some reason ...?

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:06 AM

34. What I think:

Last edited Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:16 AM - Edit history (1)

1.) Obama is calling the shots (hence, no senate, no Pelosi) and rightly so. He is the leader of the unified Democratic Party.

2.) The issue is getting Obama's bill out of the House, perhaps with something to shore up Boners position as Speaker. Obama needs a functional House, which can only come from a cooperative Republican faction working with the Democratic minority.

3.) If Boner succeeds, gets a deal, there is going to be a war next week in the Republican Party. Blood on the floor, yelling and screaming, thumps and bruises.

4.) We wont be told unless there is an agreement.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:33 AM

35. This is the "in development" phase for the script of the bribe-to-vote ratio theater that's ahead.

If De Mint's gone to a private sector house where he can further fight against disloyal red dogs with the Kochs, then this is the kind of position he and his ilk put any minority party in when that party needs to reform in order to actually govern for more than just donors.

Let's hope the "quiet rooms" approach gets Obama's daughters' and Pelosi's approval. I myself distrust this blatant mafiosa negotiating style.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:07 AM

36. not good 4 obama - boner lies and will not tell the truth

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:30 PM

37. Is this how the process works? two people work out a deal in a back room?

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:53 PM

38. The outcome to financial markets is baked in the cake

America will spend less.

Fiscal cliff, mini-fiscal cliff, Grand Bargain, horsetrading ...
America will spend less.

I expect a market surge on any deal, then reality will set in.

America will spend less.

And down the market will go.

I do expect a horsetrading deal, as in temporary 2-3 year
elimination of the Bush tax cuts on wealthy income earners.

Both sides trying to be patriotic and trying to save face with
their own base.

Not sure the House will pass it. But ... there's always the Speaker's
prerogative of passing by voice acclamation. Boehner might do it
to put the Tea Party in its place.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #38)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:14 PM

52. Acclamation is only allowed when there is unanimous consent.

A voice vote can be overturned if a member requests a roll call. The House and Senate do have acclamation votes but they are on non-controversial matters.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:14 PM

43. Don't Get Him Alone He'll Start Crying Again

 

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Response to kaspar411 (Reply #43)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:57 PM

45. NEWS FLASH: Boehner Hurls himself thru oval office window.

" I don't know what happened." Stated President Obama, brushing glass from his hands. "I was sitting there, and he suddenly got up and started screaming, "....the horrible spoons!" and hurled himself through the window."
The president shook his head.

"However, negotiations must go on. I am ready to see Mconnell now....alone...in the west garden shed. You know, the one that has the chainsaws..."

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:13 PM

48. This sounds like good news to me.

Clearly these two are most critical players and they know what will and what wont fly with their people. I think this will result in deal.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:14 PM

51. I don't believe that there is any deal that we can trust the GOP on, and


any deal will have to be accepted by a wide range of the Republican infested HOR. If Boner could make the deal he would make it in public so anything that come out of this meeting will have to be approved by a majority of the Republicans or it will fall apart.

I' not sure what Boner is up to, but he doesn't have the American people's interest in mind.

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:13 PM

49. Just wait him out until about 5:15 and he will be sweating for a drink

and will agree to anything

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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:04 AM

57. Cuz he's afraid Nancy will make him cry.

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