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Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:28 PM

Protest at Egypt president's palace turns violent

Source: AP-Excite

By HAMZA HENDAWI and AYA BATRAWY

CAIRO (AP) - A protest by at least 100,000 Egyptians outside the presidential palace in Cairo turned violent on Tuesday as tensions grew over Islamist President Mohammed Morsi's seizure of nearly unrestricted powers and a draft constitution hurriedly adopted by his allies.

Crowds around the capital and in the coastal city of Alexandria were still swelling several hours after nightfall. The large turnout signaled sustained momentum for the opposition, which brought out at least 200,000 protesters to Cairo's Tahrir Square a week ago and a comparable number on Friday. They are demanding the Morsi rescind decrees that placed him above judicial oversight.

In a brief outburst, police fired tear gas to stop protesters approaching the palace in the capital's Heliopolis district. Morsi was in the palace conducting business as usual while the protesters gathered outside. But he left for home through a back door when the crowds "grew bigger," according to a presidential official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to reporters.

The official said Morsi left on the advice of security officials at the palace and to head off "possible dangers" and to calm protesters. Morsi's spokesman, however, said the president left the palace at the end of his work schedule through the door he routinely uses.

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20121204/DA2V50T81.html





Egyptian protesters chant anti Muslim Brotherhood slogans during a demonstration in front of the presidential palace in Cairo, Egypt, Tuesday, Dec. 4, 2012. A protest by tens of thousands of Egyptians outside the presidential palace in Cairo turned violent on Tuesday as tensions grew over Islamist President Mohammed Morsi's seizure of nearly unrestricted powers and a draft constitution hurriedly adopted by his allies. (AP Photo/Nasser Nasser)

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:37 PM

1. Kicked and recommended, no person should be above the law.

Thanks for the thread, Omaha Steve.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:38 PM

2. good

hope there won't be bloodshed. Once some of these suckers get power they don't care about the people and their wishes. Good luck to all who fight for human rights to happiness, freedom......

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:50 PM

3. Protesters in Alexandria shouting "Down Down Morsy Mubarak"




Footage of Morsy motorcade leaving amidst protesters shouting IRHAL Leave (power)

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:57 PM

4. Egypt's Morsi leaves presidential palace amid clashes: Report

Updated December 4, 2012, 3:00 p.m. ET

CAIRO: Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi left the presidential palace in Cairo on Tuesday, two sources reported, after protesters angered by his decree last month to extend his powers clashed with police outside.

"The president left the palace," a presidential source, who declined to be named, told Reuters. A security source at the presidency also said the president had left the building.

Some protesters broke through lines of police who were protecting the palace and demonstrated at the palace walls.

Earlier, Egyptian riot police fired teargas at protesters demonstrating against Morsi near the presidential palace in Cairo on Tuesday and demonstrators broke through police lines, Reuters witnesses said ...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/Egypts-Morsi-leaves-presidential-palace-amid-clashes-Report/articleshow/17482904.cms

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:23 PM

7. I'm kinda starting to approve of some of the Egyptian peoples' pastimes at this point.

I'll bet this is disappointing the people around here who were so excited when Morsi tried his power grab, because it'd prove that Those People Aren't Ready For Freedom Yet or something.

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:58 PM

8. Great point about "those people aren't ready for freedom yet".

Egyptians seem to know what they want and it is not trading one dictator for another. How soon they will get what they want is another question but I think we all wish them the best.

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Response to pampango (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:29 PM

9. Egyptians seem to know what they want.

They voted for Morsi for president.

They swept the Moslem Brotherhood to power in parliament.

They will vote on the new constitution in two weeks, and Morsi's special powers are supposed to end then. We'll see.

Large, angry demonstrations don't necessarily indicate the will of the majority.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:27 AM

12. It wasn't even close: the Egyptians genuinely support Morsi and MB.

The Western liberals might not believe it, but it's true. If another election is held, it is likely they would win again. The Salafists are a bigger threat to the MB than are the non-Islamist forces. That's the funny thing - Morsi is the biggest obstacle to really radical Islamism in Egypt.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 06:08 AM

14. Agree with most of that. They voted for Morsi and swept the MB to power.

What remains to be seen is whether Morsi is discrediting himself with his power grab (assuming it is not indeed just temporary - many 'temporary' security measures such as these have endured for decades) or Egyptians secretly prefer to be ruled by a dictator they were just tired of the old one and wanted a new dictator.

Large, angry demonstrations don't necessarily indicate the will of the majority. - That is particularly true if one does not agree with the point of such protests. Of course large, angry demonstrations often (not always) do indicate the will of the majority.

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Response to pampango (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 11:39 AM

15. No doubt there are significant numbers of people unhappy with Morsi's moves.

And in a perfect world, Cairo would be as progressive and liberal as the DC suburbs. But Cairo ain't the DC suburbs--it's the capital city of of an ancient civilization that has been an Islamic society for more than a thousand years. I expect there to be an Islamic democracy, with all the inherent contradictions.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 04:11 PM

5. Egypt protesters encircle presidential palace

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 04:29 PM

6. The Power Grab Backfired Mr. Dictator

 

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:41 PM

10. "October" comes a bit late this time around?

 

in hindsight, it is an absolutely beautiful thing how that Muslim Brotherhood organization swept the governments in Tunisia, Egypt, and to a lesser extent Libya. In a remarkably short period of time, they have so utterly discredited themselves as a movement that nobody will ever take their rhetoric seriously again. The Ikhwan has spent 80 years trying to build itself up for this moment, and their work is largely undone in less than a year. The situation is not much better in Jordan; they hedge their propaganda between being the only opposition to the hashemite dictator, but then act as their first line of defense. The massive Qatari investment in this project will bellyflop completely--which was intended as a hedge against Saudi influence to promote themselves to the US gov't as a more suitable client. And now the Ikhwan wants to take over Syria? Only if al-Qa'idah doesn't win the most Western backing there first.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:46 PM

11. If only the military would come out on the side of the secular democrats now. nt

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Response to Zorra (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:29 AM

13. Like the military supported the secular Mubarak?

Mubarak led the closest thing to a "secular democratic" government Egypt had. Sure, MB was banned, but there were other parties.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:48 PM

17. Yes, ban the parties that 75% of the population support

That is what the US does in Haiti and in the 1960s Vietnam. It provides a wonderful Democratic Government, like the one in 1960 South Africa, another "Democratic" Country, but one that restricted the vote to people who would vote the way the people in the Government wanted them to vote.

The Soviet Union was a Democratic Country, everyone could vote, for or against the Communist party. If you voted for the party no problem, if you voted against the party, you would be asked not only why but also "how could you do such a anti-revolutionary act, you traitor".

Democracy means the people, ALL OF THE PEOPLE, can vote for who they want. Under Mubarak that was NOT possible.

More on Haiti and its exclusion of the Largest Political Party in Haiti from the election:
http://www.thenation.com/article/161216/wikileaks-haiti-cable-depicts-fraudulent-haiti-election#

The absence of the Fanmi Lavalas (FL) party was notable because of its popular support. Peter Hallward explained: "The final FL list of candidates was endorsed by the party leader (Jean Bertrand Aristide) by fax, but at the last minute the CEP invented a new requirement, knowing FL would be unable to meet it: Aristide, still exiled in South Africa and denied entry to Haiti, would have to sign the list in person."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_general_election,_2010%E2%80%932011

Since the party they supported was NOT on the ballot, 80% of the Haiti voters did not even bother to vote (more a boycott to protest the lack of ability to vote for whom they wanted to vote).

The election in South Vietnam were similar, the US opposed the proposed 1955 vote which all sides (but the US) had agreed to in the 1954 treaty that ended the French Indo-China war. Due to US opposition the election never took place (the US suspected the South would vote to merge with the Communist North in the election). Subsequent elections in South Vietnam had the same effect, the people of Vietnam had their choice of which candidates that were permitted on the ballot, the communist could NOT even get on the ballot (for the reason, many suspected they would win).

The Soviet Union had a similar Track record, making sure the election had no one on it that was NOT a member of the Communist Party.

These were NOT viewed as "Democratic" Elections but Frauds, the same with the elections in Egypt under Mubarak, he won so many fraudulent elections it is almost funny. When the Moslem Brotherhood almost won, one year, he just banned them from running, thus cutting them out of 1/2 of all elections (Egypt elections are two fold, individual districts AND vote by party, 1/2 the members of Parliament are elected each way. By banning the Moslem Brotherhood Mubarak made sure they could NEVER get control of the Egyptian Parliament, thus would ALWAYS be in the minority. Thus Egypt was no where near as Democratic as it is now, where 75% of the votes produce 75% of the members of Parliament.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:21 PM

16. The Military can't. their enlistees back the Moslem Brotherhood

One of the problem with a Draftee Army is the enlisted ranks tend to be pulled from the people, and thus tend to think like the people. A good example of this is Vietnam and Afghanistan. In Vietnam, the US Army was draftee. As long as the Majority of Americas supported the war in Vietnam, the Draftees fought as well as any army the US has ever produced. The problem started in mid 1968, as the Majority of Americas went from supporting the war to opposing the war. The enlisted ranks of the army followed and you saw a deep decline in the fighting ability of US Troops. This decline was NOT due to the actions of the Viet Cong, but the result of the people of the US wanting the war done and with the switch so did the enlisted ranks.

Unlike Vietnam, the war with Iraq never had majority support, while the War with Al Queda and the attack on Afghanistan did have popular support at first, but that support died out as it became clear Al Queda had been pushed out of Afghanistan (i.e. most Americans wanted out of Afghanistan even before the US invaded Iraq). Did this opposition by the people of the US have any effects on the US Military in Afghanistan or Iraq? The answer is no, the troops did NOT reflect what the Majority of Americans wanted, but what they pay masters wanted.

Please note, Special Forces, Pilots, Officers, and other highly trained specialties tended to NOT be affected by the above shift in the attitude of Americans to the War in Vietnam. For the same reason today's army is not affected, they are nothing but mercenaries and will fight as long as they are paid.

Egypt has a draftee army and as such can NOT be trusted to suppress the poor of Egypt who back the Moslem Brotherhood (If ordered to shoot will not, and once they do not shoot may just join any Moslem Brotherhood Protest). Remember the Moslem Brotherhood and their even more Fundamentalist allies received over 75% of the voting for the Egyptian Parliament, and Morsi himself received 52%, with the Military and their allies doing everything they can to suppress the vote of his supporters.

Lets remember it was the Army Leadership that used the Police and even released criminals as they tried their best to keep Marabek in power. I suspect the Army Leadership is doing this again, but with the additional maneuver of having the police make sure any actions against these "protesters" are pro-functionary at best. i.e the Army wants these protesters to succeed, drive out the Moslem Brotherhood and then use the Draftees to put down these protesters (The Enlistees do NOT support these protesters and thus can be used AGAINST THEM, remember the draftees/enlistees support the Moslem Brotherhood NOT these protesters).

Notice, as long the Morsi and the Moslem Brotherhood are in control, the army leadership and their allies in the Courts and the Police have no real reason to stop any protest (and no way to stop any Moslem Brotherhood protest, except by hiring thugs to disrupt such a protest). The Moslem Brotherhood knows this and thus have made every effort to avoid confronting these protesters (The Moslem Brotherhood have had dealings with the Army Leadership over the last 50 years and know what they can and will do to stay in power). The Moslem Brotherhood knows that the leadership of the Army (all Marabek supporters) is waiting in the wings to step in a "Save the Revolution" by suppressing the Moslem Brotherhood and re-installing the Government of Marabek (Through without Marabek). The Moslem Brotherhood is doing its best to avoid playing that game, avoiding confrontations so the Army can NOT intervene and "Save" the Revolution from both the protesters and the Moslem Brotherhood.

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