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Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:53 PM

Asperger's dropped from revised diagnosis manual

Source: AP-Excite

By LINDSEY TANNER

CHICAGO (AP) - The now familiar term "Asperger's disorder" is being dropped. And abnormally bad and frequent temper tantrums will be given a scientific-sounding diagnosis called DMDD. But "dyslexia" and other learning disorders remain.

The revisions come in the first major rewrite in nearly 20 years of the diagnostic guide used by the nation's psychiatrists. Changes were approved Saturday.

Full details of all the revisions will come next May when the American Psychiatric Association's new diagnostic manual is published, but the impact will be huge, affecting millions of children and adults worldwide. The manual also is important for the insurance industry in deciding what treatment to pay for, and it helps schools decide how to allot special education.

This diagnostic guide "defines what constellations of symptoms" doctors recognize as mental disorders, said Dr. Mark Olfson, a Columbia University psychiatry professor. More important, he said, it "shapes who will receive what treatment. Even seemingly subtle changes to the criteria can have substantial effects on patterns of care."

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20121201/DA2T9GJO0.html

115 replies, 18581 views

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Reply Asperger's dropped from revised diagnosis manual (Original post)
Omaha Steve Dec 2012 OP
Poll_Blind Dec 2012 #1
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #49
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #2
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #4
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #6
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #9
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #23
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #55
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #69
jeff47 Dec 2012 #82
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #96
jeff47 Dec 2012 #98
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #99
jeff47 Dec 2012 #100
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #103
jeff47 Dec 2012 #108
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #104
jeff47 Dec 2012 #109
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #106
jeff47 Dec 2012 #107
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #110
jeff47 Dec 2012 #111
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #112
jeff47 Dec 2012 #113
proverbialwisdom Dec 2012 #114
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #3
jmowreader Dec 2012 #7
Orrex Dec 2012 #15
alfredo Dec 2012 #16
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sakabatou Dec 2012 #24
ismnotwasm Dec 2012 #67
TrogL Dec 2012 #91
blogslut Dec 2012 #75
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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:18 PM

1. Oh snap!



PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:44 AM

49. PREDICTION: "Autism isn’t a separate mental condition, it is a medical disorder. Big difference."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/28/opinion/narrowing-the-definition-of-autism.html?_r=0

http://www.theautismdoctor.com/the-new-autism/

The New Autism

By Brian D. Udell, MD
January 22, 2012


There were lots of media stories this week announcing that, because the criteria for the diagnosis of autism are changing in the new Diagnostic Manual (DSM V), there could be a decrease in the number of documented cases. This finding was based on a study by Dr. Fred Volkmar (a Yale University autism expert), in which he used 1990′s data to analyze the effect of a diagnostic shift, and was reported in the New York Times. Others have disagreed with his conclusion. I am one of them.

First, as I have been saying for years, don’t ask doctors or ‘experts’ whether the explosion of ASD is real. Ask 40+ year-old teachers, Speech & Language Therapists and Behavioral Therapists who have been witness to the epidemic rise in developmentally challenged youngsters. Especially ABA professionals, who are generally not covered under insurance, have proliferated… because they are the only proven therapy, and so knowledgeable parents seek their services.

The CDC studies that have documented the drastically increasing incidence of autism were not based on DSM criteria, they were based on the type of services that the patients had received. That means that the number of cases of ASD (regardless of diagnostic nomenclature), will not change in the real world. Calling the bubonic plague “an acute Yersinea infection” doesn’t change the incidence of the Black Death.

Furthermore, I believe that the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM – the ‘bible of psychiatry’)  is the incorrect storage bin for this diagnosis in the first place. Autism isn’t a separate mental condition, it is a medical disorder. Big difference. Diabetes is not in the DSM, schizophrenia is. Listing the diagnosis in this manner is not allowing for the paradigm shift that many brilliant researchers are discovering. The types of mental illness that are associated with the autoimmune condition thyroid disease, for example, are listed in that manner, not the other way around. So, in the future (?DSM VI), ASD will be a subcategory, listed under ”the presence of mental symptoms that are judged to be the direct physiological consequences of a general medical condition.”

<>


Link from : http://www.marthaherbert.org/publications/

Time will tell.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:37 PM

2. Check it out. Wouldn't you like to know whether his input ended after this came to light?

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/03/poul-thorsens-mutating-resume.html

Poul Thorsen's Mutating Resume

By Dan Olmsted and Mark Blaxill
Posted by Age of Autism at March 10, 2010


In bits and pieces, in Danish and English, from three universities in two hemispheres and the CDC in Atlanta, a picture has begun forming in the past few days that is already startling in its outline: Paul Thorsen, one of the key scientists involved in CDC-backed studies exonerating vaccines as a cause of autism, is under investigation for collecting millions of dollars in bogus “grant” money, misrepresenting himself to his employers and the world and possibly forging the documents that enabled the scam.

<>

Meanwhile, Thorsen apparently continues his involvement on an American Psychiatric Association committee that is revising the classification of autism for the next Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders – a change that could affect how the prevalence of the disorder is calculated and its victims compensated and treated. (The APA did not respond to phone and e-mail requests for comment.)

<>


Read the indictment here: http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/04/read-the-indictment-of-cdc-autism-researcher-poul-thorsen-at-age-of-autism.html
More (great work by the DOJ): http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=indictment+poul&domains=ageofautism.com&sitesearch=ageofautism.com&btnG=+Google+Search+

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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:07 PM

4. LOL, keep on pushing the AoA woo!

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:19 PM

6. I'm sorry, the guy's indictment for fraud isn't woo, nor his involvement in redefining autism. nt

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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:38 PM

9. Treating this guy's wrong-doing as evidence for anti-vax BS is a red herring...

...and a straw man.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:05 AM

23. A more measured approach might be advisable.

RECAP:
First congressional hearing on autism in 10 years, Thursday.
CDC rep repeats claim it is "settled science" that autism is not associated with vaccination despite prevalence of parental claims.
Exceptionally well-informed congressman citing Thorsen indictment is reassured UNDER OATH that Thorsen's contribution to aforementioned "settled science" consists of only several papers.
Shortly, 21 of 24 papers constituting aforementioned "settled science" authored by Thorsen et al are entered into the Congressional Record.
At some point Thorsen is called a "humongous scumbag."


The unmentioned fact that his flawed studies fail to withstand scrutiny, according to AoA, is the most important issue, of course; the science is not settled. Those demanding science without flaw or fraud are not "anti-vax." That's the real red herring.

(Sorry to be off-topic)



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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:16 PM

55. Meanwhile, largely thanks to antivac woo, pertussis is on the rise and killing people.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #55)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 03:09 PM

69. Off-topic, sorry, but that's inaccurate according to JAMA. Please research it.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/09/letter-to-the-twincitiescom-editor-take-seriously-concerns-about-vaccine-injury.html

September 12, 2012

...Parenthetically, even the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is admitting that this year's increase in cases of whooping cough is not due to unvaccinated children. It is due to short-lived coverage from the pertussis vaccine.

For example, in California's pertussis surge last year -- in cases where immunization history is known -- 83 percent of the people diagnosed with pertussis had been immunized. In Minnesota in 2010, of the 252 cases of pertussis in infants and children through age 6, 71 percent had received at least the full primary series of three doses of vaccine


http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/08/pertussis-vax-effectiveness/

Is Childhood Pertussis Vaccine Less Effective Than We Thought?

By Maryn McKennaEmail Author
August 1, 2012


Delicately and cautiously, health authorities in the United States and other countries are beginning to open up a difficult topic: Whether the extraordinary ongoing epidemic of whooping cough, the worst in more than 50 years, may be due in part to unexpected poor performance by the vaccine meant to prevent the disease.

That possibility, captured in several recent pieces of research — one published last night — is being raised so carefully because it might lead vaccine opponents to claim incorrectly that pertussis vaccination does not work. That fear contains a deep irony: The current vaccine, in use for about 20 years, replaced an older and more effective one that went out of use because vaccine critics charged it had too high a rate of side effects.

In the most recent research, a letter published Tuesday night in JAMA, researchers in Queensland, Australia examined the incidence of whooping cough in children who were born in 1998, the year in which that province began phasing out whole-cell pertussis vaccine (known as there as DTwP) in favor of less-reactive acellular vaccine (known as DTaP)...

<>

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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:05 AM

82. If you had any scientific evidence of a link, you wouldn't have to rely on character assassination.

Problem is there isn't a valid study showing any link. And as each new mechanism for vaccines-cause-autism is proposed, it gets shot down when it's studied.

Insisting vaccines are the cause just diverts research money from finding the real cause, and kills children.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #82)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:25 AM

96. You might've missed these updates.

I hope you're not parsing words here. And, by the way, it isn't character assassination to acknowledge an indictment by the DOJ and status on the FBI's fugitive list.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014148376
Please see post #35 for audio of interviews with Dr. Zahorodny and Dr. Dawson.
Please see post #29 for letter by Dr. Poling.

http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2008/03/julie-gerberding-admits-on-cnn-that.html
Please see Dr. Gerberding's interview on CNN here.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/06/autism-and-what-the-experts-are-saying-part-two-.html

Autism and What the Experts are Saying, Part Two: Dawson, Zahorodny, and Amaral
By Anne Dachel
June 04, 2012 at 5:45 AM


If you’re like me, you’re sick to death of reporters telling you that all the science shows no link between vaccines and autism. Members of the press don’t hesitate to remind the public on a daily basis that only misguided parents believe vaccinations can cause autism. It’s usually a one sentence dismissal in a news report--more evidence that no one really wants to look into a controversy that could implicate the government and the medical community in an unprecedented health care scandal.

There are some huge chinks in the armor of the no link claim, however. I’m referring to the public acknowledgement by some top medical experts that yes, vaccinations do sometimes cause children to become autistic.

There are more and more independent doctors out there saying there is a link, but I’m talking about doctors who are often cited in news stories denying any causal relationship, yet who will also admit that, yes, sometimes vaccines are responsible.

<...>

In April, 2011, Dr. David Amaral, Director of Research in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, UC Davis MIND Institute, was interviewed for PBS by Robert MacNeil.

He was asked if vaccines can cause autism and he said this:
“I think it's pretty clear that, in general, vaccines are not the culprit. There has been enough epidemiological evidence showing that if you look at children that receive the standard childhood vaccines that, if anything, those children are at slightly less risk of having autism than children that aren't immunized.

“And so, you know, I think it probably is a waste of effort at this time to try and understand vaccines as a major culprit for, or a major cause of, autism. It's not to say, however, that there isn't a small subset of children who may be particularly vulnerable to vaccines.

“And in their case, having the vaccines, or particular vaccines, particularly in certain kinds of situations -- if the child was ill, if the child had a precondition, like a mitochondrial defect. Vaccinations for those children actually may be the environmental factor that tipped them over the edge of autism. And I think it is incredibly important, still, to try and figure out what, if any, vulnerabilities, in a small subset of children, might make them at risk for having certain vaccinations."
It’s shocking to listen to well-credentialed experts deny any link at the same time they also casually talk about the possibility vaccines are a factors in autism. That was never supposed to happen. Dawson’s “very small minority of individuals," Zahorondny’s “some small number of children,” and Amaral’s “small subset of children” might include my child. And how big is “small”? And where is the proof that the vulnerable group of children is “small”? There isn’t a single study that has looked at the children who regressed into autism following routine vaccinations.

It was the late Dr. Bernadine Healy, former head of the National Institutes of Health, who was on CBS News in 2008 calling for such a study. She said,
“This is the time when we do have the opportunity to understand whether or not there are susceptible children … that makes them more susceptible to vaccines plural, to one particular vaccine, or to components of a vaccine, like mercury. …We have to take another look at that hypothesis, not deny it….”
CBS reporter, Sharyl Attkisson:
“Do you think the government was too quick to dismiss out of hand that there was this possibility of a link between vaccines and autism?”
Healy:
“I think the government or certain health officials in the government have been too quick to dismiss the concerns of these families without studying the population that got sick. I haven’t seen major studies that focus on 300 kids who got autistic symptoms within a period of a few weeks of a vaccine. I think that public health officials have been too quick to dismiss the hypothesis as irrational without sufficient studies of causation.”

<...>

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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #96)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 02:20 PM

98. Reading. You may want to try it

Studies.

Not statements by people with "Dr" in front of their name. Scientific studies.

Absolutely 0 valid studies have shown a link between autism and vaccines. There's a few studies that have turned out to be fraud. But fundamentally, the autism rate among unvaccinated children is the same as vaccinated children.

Yet you are demanding we keep proving that over and over again, instead of trying to find the real cause of autism.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #98)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:28 PM

99. Three are leading establishment autism researchers. Why don't you look for their publications?

I am only relaying aspects of their academic research as summarized themselves during recent interviews for the lay public. The startling point here is the public confirmation that the scientific basis exists for the case that parents have been marginalized and ridiculed for reporting on regression into autism.

And by the way, here's a website dedicated to debunking myths. Check it out.



Here's the kind of attention to detail it sounds like you'd respect, and an example of the quality of observation at AoA, from a comment read today exposing a flawed study most probably accept at face value.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/12/the-unbearable-wimpiness-of-being-autism-speaks-bob-wright.html

COMMENTS:

Excerpt posted by reader December 04, 2012 at 10:10 AM
<>

So where do we focus our money and time and energy now? I suggest, after apologizing to Katie Wright for the ad hominem, that one place is here:

"And I’ll tell you what they—I’ll just tell you what one of them, the big one that they all rely on, the Danish study, where they said, okay, in 1992, Denmark banned Thimerosal. And after that, autism rates continued to climb. Therefore, there is no association between autism and Thimerosal. That’s the study. What they didn’t tell you is that in 1992, Denmark was concerned about the connection between Thimerosal and autism, and about this huge rise in autism, and it began for the first time requiring registering autism as a reported illness in Denmark. So all the people who had autistic children suddenly had to register them for the first time. Plus, in Copenhagen, they founded a new clinic to treat autistic kids, which gave people a huge financial incentive and health incentive to register their children. So it’s the registry that went up, not the incidents of autism that went up. But they didn’t say that in the study. They never mention the Copenhagen clinic. They never mention the change in the rules in Denmark. They just show you the graphs, of Thimerosal is banned here, and autism continues to go up. Well, the reason the autism rates rose was because—was an artifact of their data collection processes. It had nothing to do with the reality on the ground of the occurrence of autism.”


See Part 1 of 3 YouTube videos above.



By the way, catch this?

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/12/mark-blaxill-discusses-skyrocketing-autism-rates-on-imus.html

According to testimony of Rep. Chris Smith (R.NJ) at recent congressional hearing on autism .. who has served on Africa Global Rights Committee for decades:

"We have never seen a prevalance spike (in Africa) like we've seen in autism over the last 15 years or so .. the World Health Organization agrees there are probably TENS OF MILLIONS of cases of autism in Africa"

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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #99)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:50 PM

100. Again, you fail to notice the problem with these researchers

The rate of autism among unvaccinated children is the same as the rate of autism among vaccinated children.

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full is an overview.

So if vaccines cause autism, how come unvaccinated children get it at the same rate?

Here's a hint: Don't trust people putting up web sites just to highlight their pet cause of their pet disease.

For example, lots of the web sites you are citing still claim thermasil as a cause, despite the fact that it's no longer present in childhood vaccines in the US. Apparently, thermasil is such a powerful toxin that it can leap from the vaccines sent to Africa and cause autism in US children. And apparently the leap to the US is so powerful African children have a much lower rate of autism despite getting vaccines with thermasil.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #100)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 10:04 AM

103. Obfuscate all you want, but it's clear answers are forthcoming. Start with confusing 2 with 21.

Again, I defer to the published analyses of people with a personal stake in getting this issue right for love and no other reason. Motivation matters.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/12/poul-thorsen-called-industry-scumbag-scientist-and-mercury-shill.html

By Jim Thompson
Jim Thompson is a registered professional engineer.  He and his wife Susan live and work in rural South Dakota.  Their first granddaughter, Taylor Haug, was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder, epilepsy, verbal apraxia, motor disorder, and sensory integration disorder. Her loving memory has influenced his family’s decision to help protect children from vaccine injuries.

Posted by Age of Autism at December 05, 2012 at 5:45 AM


Last week Dr. Coleen Boyle, director of the U.S. CDC National Center on Birth Defects and Development Disabilities, testified before Congress in regard to a probe into the CDC’s dismal response to the Autism epidemic in this country.  In stark contrast to this epidemic, Dr. Boyle defended the CDC’s actions of both recommending as well as funding the injection of flu vaccines with the preservative Thimerosal for injection into the bodies of children and pregnant women (Federal Vaccine For Children Program) and (CDC List of Vaccines for Children Program with Thimerosal).  This hopeless fact that the CDC still recommends this as safe was defended by elusive references to studies by industry scientists. 

Upon questioning by US Representative Bill Posey in regard to an industry scientist Poul Thorsen, who is still on the FBI wanted list for defrauding the CDC for over a million dollars, Mr.  Posey declared, “This guy is a humongous scum bag and one of the most wanted men on earth.”  Then Mr. Posey asked why the CDC relied on the studies by him.  Dr. Boyle responded that there were only two studies on autism with this indicted scientist listed as contributing author.  When asked why multi-dose vials of flu vaccine still contain Thimerosal, Dr. Boyle responded, “I can provide you with that information .”  When asked how many multi-dose vials of the flu vaccine still contain Thimerosal, Dr. Boyle replied in the same way.

So how many studies were published by this humongous scum bag and how many multi-dose shots of flu vaccine are there? 

<>

Since 2002 there were twenty one  autism studies published by P.Thorsen -- four of which were published since the April 13, 2011 federal indictment of this humongous scum bag.  Apparently some journals could care less about the indictment and continue to publish papers by this corrupt industry scientist.  Another one came out just last month. 

So like the corrupt industry scientists of the past who all concluded that tobacco was safe, there seem to be industry scientists today who conclude that mercury, which is proven to kill brain cells, is safe to inject into children and pregnant women in the form of Thimerosal vaccine preservative. 

<>

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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #103)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 08:42 PM

108. Not a study. It's a letter. (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #100)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 10:34 AM

104. On the contrary, AoA writers are ALL adamant no study has ever been done comparing the two groups.

Here's a recent overview for you. (I wish it had a different title. How many will use that as an excuse to stop reading? Also irrelevant to the points detailed is the appeal to help fund a study.)

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/11/unvaccinated-children-and-autism-study-funding-needed-right-now.html

By J.B. Handley
Posted November 28, 2012 at 5:46 AM


“In a complex system, however, mistakes are not measured in degrees but in whole orders of magnitude.”
- Nate Silver, The Signal and the Noise

In the above quote, author Nate Silver is discussing the fact that Moody’s and S&P--the pre-eminent financial ratings agencies in the world-- underestimated the default risk of CDO funds by a factor of over 200, facilitating the implosion of the housing bubble and a worldwide recession.

Put another way, the financial experts at S&P and Moody’s predicted that certain financial instruments would have a default rate of just 0.12 percent (just over one tenth of one percent), when the actual default rate turned out to be 28%.

How could so many smart people be so stupid?

This question lies at the heart of a battle and debate that so many of us are currently fighting—is it possible that our health authorities, in an attempt to prevent every infectious disease they could through the use of vaccines, ended up creating a whole different set of problematic health outcomes in our children?

Here are the facts we know to be true: Please see link.

<>

...I think it’s ridiculous that the one study that could shed some light on all of this, a study so easy to do, a study our own Dan Olmsted has been writing about for almost 10 years, is still not getting done, largely because some people are scared to death of the possible outcome:

Study the health outcomes of unvaccinated children and see if they differ from children who have received vaccines.

We could learn so much, we could know so much, we could know if the hypothesis many of us share holds any truth…and we finally have the chance to do just that!!

Behind the scenes, researchers at a major US university have been trying to get an unvaccinated children study done...

More at link.

RELATED :
http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/02/vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-children-some-data-are-in-and-they-are-disturbing-.html
Africa
http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/05/from-the-editor.html
UK

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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #104)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 08:43 PM

109. And I provided a link showing such studies have been done.

Considering how many AoA writers still blame thermosil even though it's no longer present in the vaccines, I'm not terribly surprised they are wrong about this too.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #98)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:41 PM

106. "WE HAVE NOT STUDIED VACCINATED VS UNVACCINATED," CDC's Dr. Coleen A. Boyle @ minute 2:34.

Dr. Boyle is Director of the National Center on Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities (NCBDDD) at CDC.



Posey Questions CDC on Autism Research (6:12)




Part 2: Posey Questions CDC on Autism Research (0:28)

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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #106)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 08:39 PM

107. Because CDC is the only people in the world that does medical research.

I provided a link showing that such studies have been done.

Why is it you think videos and letters are better sources than scientific journals?

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #107)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 09:51 PM

110. Nope. I'm providing analyses by experts for the layperson, and it's absurd to require otherwise.

Last edited Wed Dec 5, 2012, 10:34 PM - Edit history (1)

The scientists conduct research, have their work published in peer reviewed journals, and present their findings at professional conferences. Additionally, findings may be reported to the public. I'm quoting from the level of stakeholders (family members) who have vetted these experts and are capable of going deep into the weeds to debate the finest points; I'm not, although I have an awareness of the gist of the arguments involved.

Post #99 refers to the website "Fourteen Studies" which actually vets 19 studies (and explains why the numerical disparity below); Dr. Offit refers to 20 studies he claims establish the thesis that 'neither thimerosal nor MMR vaccine causes autism.' He describes the science and accepts the research as valid; others FUNDAMENTALLY REJECT THE VALIDITY OF THE STUDIES AND SPECIFY FLAWS. Unconfirmed, but I am assuming the lists of studies overlap.

http://www.fourteenstudies.org/studies.html

The "14" Studies

Below please find a list of the studies used to support the false assertion that vaccines do not cause autism. Please note that many of these studies are being made available on the Web for the first time. As mentioned in our The Right Question section, we contend that not one of these studies asks the right questions...

<>

* We are actually reviewing 19 studies. The truth is, the public figures who discuss the "overwhelming" evidence have different numbers that they cite for the number of studies done. We chose to name our website "Fourteen Studies" to match the quote from Amanda Peet.


http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full

Vaccines and Autism: A Tale of Shifting Hypotheses
Stanley Plotkin, Section Editor
Jeffrey S. Gerber and Paul A. Offit

<>

Conclusions:

Twenty epidemiologic studies have shown that neither thimerosal nor MMR vaccine causes autism. These studies have been performed in several countries by many different investigators who have employed a multitude of epidemiologic and statistical methods. The large size of the studied populations has afforded a level of statistical power sufficient to detect even rare associations. These studies, in concert with the biological implausibility that vaccines overwhelm a child's immune system, have effectively dismissed the notion that vaccines cause autism. Further studies on the cause or causes of autism should focus on more-promising leads.

Acknowledgments

Potential conflicts of interest.P.A.O. is a coinventor and patent coholder of the rotavirus vaccine Rotateq and has served on a scientific advisory board to Merck. J.S.G.: no conflicts.


Do you know that Dr. Offit turned down an offer at Yale for a public debate with Dr. Wakefield? Did you also know that Dr. Offit has ejected Jake Crosby from his public lectures and slandered him? Rough stuff.

http://sciencediplomats.blogspot.com/2012/01/dr-paul-offit-vaccine-guru-speaks-at.html

Wednesday, January 25, 2012
Dr. Paul Offit, vaccine guru, speaks at Yale

<>

She seemed not to be against vaccination per se, but was very concerned about autism and she appeared to be asking Dr. Offit whether he would debate Andrew Wakefield in a public forum. Dr. Offit asked for her name, replying “Ohhh, you’re Mary Holland!” after her response... Offit was very frustrated with Mary Holland’s request for debate because all the scientific evidence discredits any link between vaccines and autism. “What is there to debate about? The scientific data is the truth,”



http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/12/paul-offit-lies-about-jake-crosby-tara-palmore-throws-him-out-nih-covers-it-up.html
December 27, 2011
Paul Offit Lies About Jake Crosby; Tara Palmore Throws Him Out and NIH Covers it Up
By Jake Crosby

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/01/the-hell-with-balance-paul-offit-throws-out-jake-crosby-argues-with-nyu-research-scholar-mary-holland-at-yale.html
January 20, 2012
“The hell with balance!” - Paul Offit Throws Out Jake Crosby, Argues with NYU Research Scholar Mary Holland at Yale
By Jake Crosby

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/05/penn-prof-paul-offit-to-gw-grad-student-get-the-fck-out-of-here-piece-of-sht.html
May 05, 2012 at 5:46 AM
Penn Prof. Paul Offit to GW Grad Student: “Get the f*ck out of here! Piece of sh*t!”
By Jake Crosby


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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #110)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 10:57 PM

111. So you don't understand how science works?

If you want to refute a study, you don't put up a web site saying "nuh-uh!!".

You do your own study.

You have plenty of people saying "nuh-uh". You have 0 studies that haven't resulted in criminal fraud charges.

Quoting more and more people saying "nuh-uh" doesn't change that.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #111)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 02:02 AM

112. Nonsense and about those 'criminal fraud charges,' just give it a little time.

Meanwhile, see #4 for a cogent up-to-date summary.

http://canaryparty.org/index.php/the-news/118-open-letter-to-the-sponsors-of-brian-deers-lectures-at-the-university-of-wisconsin-la-crosse-october-2012-

OPEN LETTER to the Sponsors of Brian Deer’s Lectures at The University of Wisconsin, La Crosse, October 2012

My name is Jennifer VanDerHorst-Larson, and my open letter to university officials was singled out by Brian Deer for response. As you know, Mr. Deer recently lectured at the university about the Wakefield/MMR vaccine controversy... I am the mother of a boy with autism...

<>

People who criticize vaccine safety are not “cranks, flat-earthers, conspiracy theorists, cult members, anti-vaccinationists” or “desperate-parents-looking-for-something-to-blame,” as people like Mr. Deer describe us. We are doctors, lawyers, teachers, nurses, police officers, scientists, business owners, students, professors…people from all walks of life who consider the current, one-size-fits-all vaccine program insufficiently tested and demonstrably unsafe. The number of vaccines has exploded in a generation – as has autism. Little wonder the vaccine makers and doctors sought and received total indemnification from lawsuits for vaccine injury, an exemption from typical liability that has been in effect since 1988.

<>

4. Wakefield's co-author in the Lancet Paper, Dr. John Walker Smith, was recently exonerated and had his license to practice medicine restored, showing that Deer's allegations against Wakefield and Walker Smith, which were rubber stamped by the General Medical Council, had no foundation. ENORMOUS DETAIL FOLLOWS.


By Jennifer VanDerHorst Larson, Co-founder, President, The Canary Party

Owner/CEO Vibrant Technologies; Owner, Founder, CEO Holland Autism Center and Clinic; Founding Board Chair of Children with Autism Deserve Education (CADE); Board member of Autism Recovery Foundation; Co-Founder of the Vaccine Safety Council of Minnesota; 2012 National Republican delegate for Minnesota

The Holland Center is a pediatric rehabilitation treatment center. Opened in 2004, it was created to provide an integrated treatment approach to children with autism. Holland integrates ABA, speech, occupational therapy alongside biomedical treatments for children in a chemical-free, gluten/casein/peanut-free environment.

Honors: "25 Women to Watch" Minneapolis/St.Paul Business Journal 2008, "40 Under Forty" Minneapolis/St.Paul Business Journal 2007, "Best Places to Work- 2007, 2008” and "Fast 50 Private Companies"- 2006.


I just read about something called the Zimmerman Report: http://thinkingmomsrevolution.com/how-the-zimmerman-report-affects-us-all/
More scientific progress. Developing.

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Response to proverbialwisdom (Reply #112)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:07 AM

113. I think I'll just say 0 studies over and over again

Because it's apparent there's no reason to bother actually crafting a post for you to read.

What do you have? 0 studies.

What do you need to actually have a point? Not 0 studies.

What's not going to fix your 0 studies problem? More people saying "nuh-uh!!".

You know what's hysterically comical? That you think "this guy isn't going to jail for his fraud" is somehow a solution to your 0 studies problem.

You know what's not comical? The fact that I had to scrub down every time I came home. You see, we had a newborn and people like you created a whooping cough epidemic where I live. You decided to risk my child's life because you believe "nuh-uh!" somehow overcomes 0 studies.

Having an autistic child can be heartbreaking. You know what's more heartbreaking? Having your child die from a preventable disease because other people refuse to vaccinate despite 0 studies.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #113)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:21 AM

114. 'Trifles make perfection, but perfection is no trifle.' -Michelangelo.

It is fair to say often 'the best defense is a strong offense.' That's unsustainable in this situation, however, and a prescription for failure. Details, details.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/12/brian-hookers-testimony-autism.html

Brian Hooker's Testimony From Congressional Autism Hearing
By Anne Dachel
December 6, 2012


Brian Hooker is the father of a son with autism and he holds a PhD in Biochemical Engineering, in addition to being a dedicated member of the autism community.  He also played a role in how the House autism hearing came to be.
<>

I also wanted to drive home the intertwined nature of the relationship between Dr. PoulThorsen (who was indicted in Federal court on April 14, 2011 for fraud and embezzlement of CDC grant funds) and the National Center for Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities (NCBDDD).  Dr. Thorsen wrote 36 papers in collaboration with NCBDDD scientist Dr. Diana Schendel, many as "cover" to deflect the issue of autism causation from vaccines.  It is unclear whether CDC continues to work with Thorsen, but four papers, co-authored by Thorsen and Schendel, have appeared in the scientific literature since his Federal indictment.  Why is this happening? 

Shouldn't the veracity of all 36 publications be investigated by CDC? Thorsen received the majority of his grant funds from CDC after the Madsen et al. 2003 Pediatrics publication.  Thorsen co-authored the paper and coordinated (with Dr. Boyle) the CDC review and recommendation of publication to Pediatrics.  It is perhaps the most blatantly fraudulent of the 5 studies quoted in the 2004 IOM report, as the Madsen et al. authors claimed that autism rates went up after the removal of thimerosal from vaccines in Denmark in 1992. I really want to know why CDC paid Thorsen so handsomely after this paper was published, given the fact that the original Madsen manuscript was rejected by the Journal of the American Medical Association and the Lancet, prior to finally being accepted in the journal Pediatrics.

<>


Post #69 corrects false claims re: pertussis.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:06 PM

3. Asperger's is being merged with Autistic Disorder.

There is very little difference between an adult with Asperger's Syndrome, such as myself, and a high-functioning adult with Autistic Disorder, like KamaAina. So under the new guidelines both me and KamaAina will be labeled with "Autism Spectrum Disorder".

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:27 PM

7. I need to see the new guidelines...

but under the old ones 90 percent of the world was at least a little bit autistic, and now it sounds like we all will be.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 11:15 PM

15. I wish that you guys would hand out a program or something

I can't keep track of who's got what. Could you try to be a little less high-functioning so that dumbasses like me can avoid accidentally saying something stupid?

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Response to Orrex (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 11:28 PM

16. Too late. ;)

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Response to alfredo (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:25 AM

20. Joke's on you!

I said accidentally.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 11:40 PM

19. LMAO!

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:31 AM

24. Yes, it's a spectrum disorder

And it's nice to meet a fellow high-functioning.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 02:38 PM

67. Are you ok with that?

Because I read that people with high functioning Aspergers, may have made some of the greatest contributions to society. Isn't Newton thought possibly to have had it? As well as other 'mad scientist' types? Social skills maybe not so great, perhaps causing great pain, but the process of thinking different enough to make great leaps in science?

Or am I completely off base here?

Separating Aspergers from autism Spector disorder seems to allow enough difference to encourage those thinking skills.

Just thinking out loud, I know very little about it.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #67)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:59 PM

91. It actually makes it easier to explain

Not all Asperger's cases are identical and there's a lot of comorbidity between the two.

I had to explain this all to my colleagues recently and explaining the Autistic Spectrum made a lot more sense than the narrower definition.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 07:52 PM

75. That AP headline is designed to enrage

And the whole bent of the piece is slanted towards sensationalism.

Shame on the AP.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:08 PM

93. Little or none.

One of the finest minds in the field evaluated me while I was working with Dr. Volkmar at Yale. He came down on the side of Autism -- but with the lowest possible confidence level, essentially the psychiatric equivalent of flipping a coin.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:09 PM

5. The whole of the mental health profession is one giant FRAUD. n/t

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:37 PM

8. LOL, here come the "Psychiatry is EVIL" brigage.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:56 PM

14. Yup

and I am sure this has nothing to do with the fact that Social Security finally acknowledged asberger's

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 02:03 AM

32. So true Odin2005- and some of the comments are SO inappropriate and insensitive.

Clearly, the stigma is alive and well on DU.
Disgusting, and insulting to so many of us whose lives
have been touched by autism and other brain disorders.
I find much of this thread completely heartless and CLUELESS.

BHN

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:44 PM

10. psychiatry and psychology are a very inexact studies - they really cannot be called science

the same could be said about "political science" or sociology or any of the social or behavioral studies. It is not a matter fraud - it is a matter of such imprecise variables.

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:58 PM

11. and quarks were a matter of quirky conjecture just a few years ago ...

psychiatry and psychology are as imperfect as every other science known to man ...

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Response to MindMover (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:30 AM

42. I'd have to disagree, quarks were found through the scientific process

They were hypothesized, tests were developed to find them, and they were repeatedly found and proven. That's how the process works.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #42)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:16 PM

56. Exactly ... hypothesized, tested, repeat ...

that is what every science does including the science of psychology ...

I am saying that scientists thought they knew what they were talking about 10 years ago when they explained an atom ... and they were correct at the time they were explaining the atom then but ....

Today's explanation of an atom must include the quark and its quarkiness ...

Hence, quantum physics ....

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Response to MindMover (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 04:45 PM

71. As an engineer, I disagreed that science was imperfect.

Sure, we keep making new discoveries, but I'd never call it imperfect. We just keep learning more about nature as we go.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #71)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 07:50 PM

74. I use the word imperfect because science is never completed ....

it is always working to make complete or in another word, perfection ... hence science is imperfect ... it is never complete ...

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:09 PM

13. So was medicine less than two hundred years ago

Psychiatry has given me drugs that make me well. They have side effects, but so has penicillin. Are they perfect, no, but they are a hell of a lot better than being untreated.

So on the whole I prefer Psychiatry to it's non-existence.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:41 AM

27. That is if they get your diagnosis correct

I was diagnosed for anxiety disorder for years. It wasn't until after winter break that I was diagnosed right.

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:33 AM

25. Oh really?

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:56 AM

31. You insult MANY DUers with that statement DeSwiss.

May your life never be touched by severe mental illness
as so many of ours have.

PROUD mother of a bipolar young adult who gives thanks everyday
for the help available to her and the medication that allows my child to lead a somewhat
normal life.

I would suggest you visit the mental health forum and get to know
what some of your fellow DUers deal with on a daily basis-

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #31)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 05:29 AM

38. ....

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 07:25 AM

39. 1973?

Hate to tell you this, but it is now 2012 and the diagnosis and treatment
of ACTUAL disorders has come a LONG way since then.

Today, those attempting such an experiment would be dismissed
rather quickly by the majority of hospitals.

And rightly so, because they waste valuable time of doctors and staff
who serve the needs of people who NEED HELP.

I LOVE SUCH A PERSON, and would be pissed as hell
to find out that resources were wasted upon such deceptions
in the name of further stigmatizing and discrediting the many
fine people who devote their lives to helping those who actually NEED it.

Your source is irrelevant in this day and age and you
do no favor to advancements encouraging those who need
help to get it.

Your insensitivity to those who suffer and those who are affected
by various conditions that strike our loved ones is despicable IMO.

BHN

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #38)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:10 PM

101. New Agers would

Last edited Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:37 PM - Edit history (2)

bring us back to a system in which possesion by astral entities and exorcism with directed thought in "the light" is a cornerstone of achieving so-called higher consciousness (i.e. mental balance and health). There's big money in it these days. This isn't speculation but a statement based on exposure to thousands of new age practitioners over the years.

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:21 AM

41. Are you a Scientologist, DeSwiss?

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:13 PM

53. Probably, from the looks of it.

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:17 PM

57. Except of course when it saves your life. Nt.

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 02:05 PM

65. What did they tell you was wrong with YOU? n/t

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 02:51 PM

68. Hi, Tom Cruise!

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:58 AM

102. Hail Xenu!

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:07 PM

12. Someone saw the South Park episode.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 11:29 PM

17. The one about the "Brown Note."

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 11:38 PM

18. How is this late breaking news. This change has been known to the mental health profession for years

The DSM-5 has been in the works for several years. Asperger's disorder will fall under the umbrella of Autistic Spectrum Disorder. Big deal. My guess is that it will just make it harder for people with this diagnosis to get help.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:46 AM

21. Talk about a branch of idiocy based on non-science. The scientific method is NEVER used

in the so-called study of psychology, it is a joke. Any single person could walk into a shrinks office and get diagnosed with anything, and that diagnosis is CONSIDERED VALID even if there is no actual proof of the supposed disorder/illness. Total joke, clueless people, seriously don't ever let these quackers near your kid or yourself.

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Response to LittlestStar (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:04 AM

22. "Any single person could walk into a shrinks office and get diagnosed with anything..."

I shudder to think what your shrink has diagnosed YOU with!

How long have you been out and are you out AMA?

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Response to LittlestStar (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:37 AM

26. Yeah, my mental state and mannerisms are a total joke

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Response to LittlestStar (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:47 AM

28. That's been tested

 

and the results were not flattering.

I don't recall the study/experiment, but group of healthy students told some formerly agreed symptoms (they really did not have) and fooled the professionals to take them in. What was really worrying was that after it was revealed that it was an experimental hoax, some participants had great difficulties to get out of the looney house.

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Response to tama (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:34 PM

50. post a link or it never happened.

and no way, ever, anywhere, would people be forcibly committed on such a basis. and kept there. just bullshit.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #50)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:05 PM

52. Thanks for checking in on this thread Mopinko-

After reading some of the garbage spewed here, I think we
need to propose to Skinner & company that DU uphold a new
CS clause to STOP the discrimination and further
stigmatization of Mental Health issues on DU.
It's as though some of our members are living in the dark ages
and feel free to offend those who take the matter seriously.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:18 PM

59. What really disturbs me is the crowd that thinks

diseases like severe schizophrenia are no excuse for killing and that executing the mentally ill when they kill is ok. They are almost medieval in their thinking, and completely lack compassion or understanding for schizophrenics. Like it's a character defect and not organic brain disease.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #50)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:26 PM

97. (Off topic) Seen this? Rare, but really ugly relatively recent allegations supporting tama's post.

http://www.google.com/search?q=village+voice+schoolcraft&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari
GOOGLE: village voice schoolcraft

One person, not 'people.' Intimidation, much?

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if the 'cash for kids' case in PA didn't include some aspect of similar abuse. No link, not my issue, but it was covered well at democracynow.org.

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Response to tama (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:22 AM

83. It did happen, but in the early 70s.

This is the study by Rosenhan (1973).

At that time, autism was still often thought to be due to 'refrigerator mothers'; there was far less known about the neurological basis of many psychiatric illnesses than nowadays; and people with psychiatric illnesses or developmental disorders were routinely, 'warehoused' for many years in large institutions. (Not so very much earlier, it was not unknown for people to be placed in an institution just because they failed to conform to some social norms and their families found them a nuisance - e.g. some young women who became pregnant out of wedlock.) Nowadays it would be much more difficult to get admission to a psychiatric hospital even if you genuinely need it, because of the reduction in long-term facilities and the cost to the taxpayer or the individual. Malingerers like Rosenhan would be readily detected.

Using a 1973 study as an example of what happens in modern psychiatry, is almost like saying that people who visit their doctor are likely to be bled and given emetics, because this was common medical treatment in the early 19th century.

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #83)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:50 AM

84. On the contrary

 

it proves that just like other fields psychiatry is constantly developing, no reason to take current state - which future may and quite likely will consider in many ways barbaric - as an authority.

And the whole field of diagnostics remains very problematic in theory and praxis, not much improvement there. As well as the fact that science in general including psychiatry is largely made subservient to the goals of neoliberal voodoo.

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Response to LittlestStar (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:51 AM

29. Obviously your life has not been touched by mental illness.

I am the parent of a bipolar young adult.
And I thank the universe for the doctors who have
helped manage the disorder, which by the way-
CAN be scientifically proven thanks to the advances in
brain imaging.

They have identified the part of the brain where the "electrical storms"
occur and they are very similar to epilepsy.

You have no idea what you are talking about, so perhaps you
should stop now.
Also, scientists have also identified parts of the brain
involved in autism spectrum.
I have two autistic nephews, have worked extensively with
children on the spectrum, as well as others with other disabilities,
and have seen wonders in turning lives around, thanks to doctors
and scientists AND pharmaceutical management of many disorders
that occur in the brain.
If you intend to present a scientology view of medicine, this
may not be a good place for you.

BHN

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Response to LittlestStar (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 02:16 AM

33. Scientific method never used? Tell that to B.F. Skinner or Roger Sperry (Nobel laureate)

You sir/madam are sorely misinformed about the science of Psychology or are blinded by bias.

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Response to NoodleyAppendage (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 02:34 AM

34. +1000.

BHN

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Response to LittlestStar (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 03:08 AM

36. Two members of my immediate family are psychologists, and

they basically agree with you. It drives them nuts.

Not that all psychology is bad - it's just important to know what's science and what's a hunch.

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Response to LittlestStar (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:33 AM

43. The real problem is that doctors who are NOT QUALIFIED to make mental health diagnoses...

 

...attempt to do so anyway.

Here's an example distilled down for easy consumption:

I lost a long-term friend to suicide last year. Several weeks before she finally killed herself, I intervened and stopped a suicide attempt by calling 911. The police and a psych nurse took her away to the county psychiatric hospital. It took her almost 10 days to talk her way out, using the brute force of her considerable intellect to figure out the right things to say.

Seven weeks later she took several boxes of things to her father's room in a nursing home, then walked out to the parking lot and shot herself.

Her brother and I cleaned up the mess of her belongings. He handled the financials. I was left with a full SUV load of mostly paperwork that she had accumulated over about 30 years, including all of her medical records.

As I sifted through the boxes of mostly chaff, I discovered that on three occasions over the last 20 years of her life she had been "diagnosed" and prescribed medication, but no psychotherapy, for depression, an eating disorder, and Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. She had also sought help to quit smoking on several occasions. All of those attempts to improve her life failed, because she didn't follow through and never sought competent treatment. She did get some counseling, but not what she really needed.

Here's the kicker - While she was in the psych lockup she was diagnosed (by a psychiatrist) with Borderline Personality Disorder. I have a degree in psych, and based on her behavior late in life plus things I discovered in her stuff, that was probably a correct diagnosis. But it was too late. She was too far gone, had given up, and didn't follow through on her treatment.

About 20 years during which there was hope for recovery was wasted because she never got to a competent mental health professional.

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Response to LittlestStar (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:50 AM

46. Same is true for any doctor. If I insist to my GP I have pain in my back, he'll give me meds

without any "proof". So what's your point?

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Response to LittlestStar (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:41 PM

51. yes, shrinks believe their patients. or at least give them the benefit

of the doubt. there are, however, tests and extensive testing instruments that can assess mental illness pretty well, including neurological tests that look at the timing and intensity of reaction to stimuli.
yes, anyone having a hard time can get some help, and probably some antidepressants. anyone that is seriously dysfunctional can get a large battery of evaluations and medications, pretty much like a lot of physical illnesses whose presence is not always testable. ie- ms, which has no actual test.

you really have no idea what you are talking about in this day and age.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #51)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:18 PM

58. EXACTLY MOPINKO!

Again, I suggest we request some new CS' from the admins
on posting standards for mental health issues.
Hard to say how many people read some of the crap on this board
and decide NOT to get help.
Damage is done by idiots and should not
be allowed in our membership.

BHN

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Response to LittlestStar (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:14 PM

54. You probably would think my schizophrenic mother was just

faking, or having a series of very bad days, or some such nonsense.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #54)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:22 PM

62. Sorry about your mother Kestrel- I did not know.

But I do understand how difficult and heartbreaking it is
when a family member is suffering from such disorders.
Good thing your mother wasn't taking advice from some
of the idiots on this thread.
When did DU become a haven for Scientology anyway?

I am furious that such statements are allowed on DU.

It needs to be a CS violation, IMO.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #62)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:44 PM

64. I have no idea when, but yeah, we have been invaded by

closeted Scientologists. They will deny that's what they are, but it's glaringly obvious.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #64)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 03:18 PM

70. I think it started when anti-vaxers weren't PPR'd without discussion

Their "opinion", almost religious in its zeal, is flat-out dangerous to themselves, their families, and the people around them. A parallel would be a serious call for patients to be bled to remove bad humors.

Not outright getting rid of them at the first sign is a big, big mistake. This particular brand of woo could plausibly kill us all.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #70)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 05:44 PM

73. You're preaching to the converted here, lol. I'm HUGE on public health.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #70)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:14 PM

78. Your position is extremely anti-scientific

 

and purely totalitarian and authoritarian persecution with religious zeal against criticism and those speaking out - in a word, hysterically insane ("could plausibly kill us all").

These are not black-or-white issues, science is supposed to be self-correcting methodology, not god like authority. There's lot of valid criticism against vaccine industry which does not deny also the success and benefits of certain vaccines.

Same with prevailing theories and practices of psychiatry, instead of blind faith they deserve scientific empirical and ethical rational criticism, if they are supposed to have anything to do with science and scientific methodology. One of the main problems, which is much discussed, is social aspect of mental disorders vs. current too individualistic paradigm. For example my father, who has been diagnosed with schitzophrenia, showed symptoms only in socially stressing situations where he could not live in peace with his conscience, otherwise he's been fine. Much more worryingly, when we had school killings in my country (Finland) a big critical discussion of psychiatry followed as the shooters in all incidents have been ordered various pills. The national top authority responded to criticism by saying that psychiatry has been doing what (neoliberal) state has ordered with good success, distributing pills to keep population able to work for neoliberal world order. You see the hierarchy there? Insane economic cult of neoliberalism telling psychiatry what to do, setting the goals of medical profession? Of course there are also many good professionals in the field with wisdom and heart in the right place who don't victimize people for living in insane world and caring.



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Response to tama (Reply #78)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:45 PM

80. No, anti-vaxers deserve summary dismissal based on previously established lack of scientific merit

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:52 AM

30. Does that mean I'm cured? nt

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:34 AM

44. Yes it does.

 

Congratulations!

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 03:05 AM

35. Dare I say...

In the psych world, it's best to treat specific issues, rather than putting a label on it and treating the label. Labels are often misleading. For example, a kid we know keeps getting basic OT and slow academics foisted on him because of a high-functioning autism label - he taught himself how to skateboard when he was 4, and IQ is above 95th percentile, so those things are silly, but it's assumed he has problems because of the label.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 04:18 AM

37. It just demonstrates that mental illness

like race gender is a social construction

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:35 AM

45. It may seem like a social construction to you, but if you ever have the misfortune of being in...

 

...a close relationship with a mentally ill person, you'll change your tune.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:07 AM

48. Neither Race nor Gender Constitute an Intrinsic Threat to Survival of the Individual

given a society that doesn't discriminate.

Mental illness, however, does. It is only in a society that provides protection and support for the mentally ill that the real dangers of mental illness to the individual, the family, and the community are ameliorated.

Mental illness means one cannot recognize or respond to life's challenges in a way that increases one's chance of surviving to the next crisis.

That has very little to do with the way society is constructed, unless the society itself is psychotic (which does happen all too often, btw).

See: http://www.amazon.com/Society-Becomes-Addict-Wilson-Schaef/dp/0062548549

and other works by the same author.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #48)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:18 PM

79. Is there any question

 

that our current society is not collectively insane?

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:22 PM

61. FAIL. I have decades of experience with a schizophrenic mother

and, believe you me, her problem was ANYTHING but a social construction. My guess is that you have zero experience dealing with someone with severe paranoid delusions and how disordered their life becomes as a result of those delusions.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:53 AM

40. Is there a diagnosis in there for "Psychologist"?

A society that empowers self-determination and responsibility -

Existentialism - would require no psychologists and all those

resources could be used to better the human condition

In the meantime - they are OVERPAID

and it's often more about control and perhaps abuse

than about treatment

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:51 AM

47. Nice broad brush

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #40)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:58 AM

87. I agree, I'm employing TM

for my issues. Transcendental Meditation.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:20 PM

60. There are valid criticisms of the DSM and its use.

For example, because insurance companies demand a DSM diagnostic code for reimbursement, clinicians are forced to pigeon hole their patients into a DSM category, and that process gets institutionalized into practice, and everyone loses.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #60)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 02:14 PM

66. so true. it is this medical model that prevents people from going into this career field...

and it prevents people from seeking therapy. There is a stigma associated with seeing a psychotherapist. Sometimes people just need some professional guidance to help them get through a a rough time. And sometimes people have a serious mental health condition and they don't get the treatment they need because of the ambiguous diagnosis process. If you had a kid that had a serious problem, would you prefer they got the proper diagnosis, based on science and technology (like a brain scan of some sort), or would you rather have you and your spouse fill out a cumbersome and and subjective questionnaire. Well guess which one the insurance company will pay for. And then guess which one the psychotherapist will use the results of to develop a treatment plan. It is 2012 and we are still in the dark ages when it comes to getting access to what real help is available.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:26 PM

63. Temper tantrums. Two words. Disruptive mood dysregulation disorder. Four words.

Didn't George Carlin do a riff on this sort of thing?

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 05:19 PM

72. Self-diagnosed aspergers is one of the most irritating things on the net

Seeing "I'm an aspie," so often started making me cringe after a while.

I don't doubt that it's a real condition on the autism spectrum. It's the chronically shy and socially awkward (eg. me) who self diagnose that induce eye rolling.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #72)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:36 PM

76. I was diagnosed by a professional when I was 15.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:32 AM

81. The ignorance of mental illness right here on DU is sad.

And, of course, it can be found in many other places.

No wonder those with mental illness have such a hard time getting treatment, even in 2012, when many people insist there's nothing wrong with them, when people would rather lock them up in prison than get them the help they need. This attitude can be found even among self-proclaimed "progressives".

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 05:57 AM

85. As the parent of an Asperger's child, here's what concerns me the most:

<<And some Asperger's families opposed any change, fearing their kids would lose a diagnosis and no longer be eligible for special services.<<

We tried mainstreaming our son into the general education population twice, and both times were spectacular failures. He now splits his class time between general education and an emotional disorders program, and still has trouble coping at times. I am so afraid that this will be the excuse for school systems to drop programs like the one my son is in, especially given the cash-strapped status of many districts today.

Quite frankly, this diagnostic revision scares me. We have six more years to go here.

And he also sees a counselor and is on meds, so I'm sure the insurance company will just be delighted with this change as well.

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Response to AngryOldDem (Reply #85)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:40 PM

89. I doubt very much that you will lose any benefits because of your son's condition being re-named

 

Changing the words used to described his condition doesn't change the challenges he faces.

I hope I'm right.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #89)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:18 PM

95. I hope so, too.

But I was reading other stories about this during downtime at work today, and it was pointed out that there is some confusion about exactly how this will affect services for these kids. Some say no change in services; others say the opposite.

Just like with everything else we've gone through with him, we just have to wait and see how things play out.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:16 AM

86. holy moly.

way tooooo many people here who don't know wtf they are talking about re brain disorders. here's a clue- things have changed in the last 40 years. like all sciences, psychiatry has changed and learned and is way better now than it was in the 70's, k?
please spare those of us that have been and are up close and personal with this stuff your half baked criticisms and 40 year old crap studies. you cause grief for people whose cup of grief is already running over.

jeebus. what year is it where you are?

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Response to mopinko (Reply #86)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:32 PM

88. It's the same people who get hysterical about "Evil Big Pharma".

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:47 PM

90. I'd never heard of Aspergers before seeing it mentioned on DU

I scored a 40 on this test. Whatever tag you want to put on it, it would certainly explain a lot about myself that was frankly mystifying before.

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Response to IDemo (Reply #90)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:05 PM

92. Don't go self-diagnosing yourself

My psychologist refused to diagnose me, saying it needed to be done by a specialist. I already had the diagnosis and was trying for a second opinion.

Some self-diagnosed Aspies are merely Jungian introverts. You need to be able to show a history of flunking developmental milestones.

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Response to TrogL (Reply #92)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:22 PM

94. Yeah, I realize an online quiz is no substitute

No question I'm an introvert, but combined with other factors it seems to fit the description of a high functioning Autistic.

I seem to fit several of the markers - I became fascinated with drawing at a very early age and spent a great deal of time completely absorbed by the minute details of each picture; I taught myself how to tell the day of week for any date within the past two centuries in a second or two as well as calculating square roots to a second or third decimal place, and don't converse well.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 10:56 AM

105. It's a trade-off

I think I heard (on NPR) that "Hoarding" has been added to the list. Probably because of its popularity on television.

So now it's a treatable ailment, eligible for government-funded study.

I don't know if it'll get a name as cool as "Asperger's".

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:00 PM

115. Related informative read.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/01/dsm5-youre-still-autistic-youre-just-weird-you-were-not-sure-about-call-us-tomorrow.html

By Anne Dachel
January 23, 2012

<>

“The Asperger community is a big vocal community, a reason in itself to leave the diagnosis in place.” Dr. Temple Grandin, Colorado State University animal scientist.

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