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Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:05 AM

 

City Attorney Tells San Bernardino Residents To ‘Lock Their Doors,’ ‘Load Their Guns’ Because Of Pol

Source: losangeles.cbslocal.com

City Attorney Tells San Bernardino Residents To ‘Lock Their Doors,’ ‘Load Their Guns’ Because Of Police Downsizing

SAN BERNARDINO (CBSLA.com) — The city attorney of San Bernardino is under scrutiny for telling residents to “lock their doors and load their guns” during a city council meeting.

The official explained that because the city is bankrupt and slashing public safety budgets people will need to start protecting themselves.


Read more: Linkhttp://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/11/30/city-attorney-tells-san-bernardino-residents-to-lock-their-doors-load-their-guns-because-of-police-downsizing/ to source

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply City Attorney Tells San Bernardino Residents To ‘Lock Their Doors,’ ‘Load Their Guns’ Because Of Pol (Original post)
jody Nov 2012 OP
Andy Stanton Nov 2012 #1
slackmaster Nov 2012 #2
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2012 #17
slackmaster Nov 2012 #18
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2012 #22
rDigital Nov 2012 #25
tularetom Nov 2012 #3
greiner3 Nov 2012 #6
tularetom Nov 2012 #11
byeya Nov 2012 #4
Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 #7
X_Digger Nov 2012 #8
byeya Nov 2012 #21
X_Digger Nov 2012 #23
byeya Nov 2012 #26
X_Digger Nov 2012 #32
Panasonic Nov 2012 #5
bemildred Nov 2012 #9
JDPriestly Nov 2012 #14
bemildred Nov 2012 #15
heaven05 Nov 2012 #10
Hoyt Nov 2012 #12
madrchsod Nov 2012 #13
sendero Nov 2012 #16
musiclawyer Nov 2012 #19
jody Nov 2012 #20
allrevvedup Nov 2012 #24
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #28
allrevvedup Nov 2012 #31
kestrel91316 Nov 2012 #27
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #29
kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #33
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #34
former9thward Nov 2012 #30

Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:09 AM

1. Dumb thing to say

But there's an element of truth there. If people won't support public services there will be consequences.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:11 AM

2. If you are in a situation in your home that calls for using a firearm for self-defense...

 

...even the most responsive police department won't get there quickly enough to make any difference.

It sounds to me like Mr. Penman was speaking out of frustration.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:39 PM

17. My thought also.

I can depend on police showing up here in 5 minutes or so, which is good.
But not in time to help me if someone has already broken down the door.

That is why so many people ARE armed around here.
Which may be why there are so few breakins of occupied homes around here..people generally assume you have a gun and a dog or 2.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:58 PM

18. Five-minute response is very unusual. You are very fortunate. In my peaceful suburb in San Diego...

 

...you can count on them taking at least 20 minutes, and very often 40. That's for pretty serious calls, e.g. "I think I heard a gunshot coming from a house up the street."

The fire department is a lot quicker. Usually.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 05:45 PM

22. Small town.

Vol. fire dept tho.
Luckily, we have a hydrant within 200 feet of house, which reduces house insurance a lot.
and 2 of the vol. firemen/EMT folks live a block away, a nurse lives up the street, and the police dispatcher is my neighbor, so if I call at night, she knows where i iive.

I love small towns.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 06:21 PM

25. Response time in my area could be measured most accurately by a sun dial. : ( nt

 

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Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:14 AM

3. Actually, people needed to protect themselves even before the city went bankrupt

Despite what it says on the door of almost every police car in existence, courts have repeatedly held that the police are under no obligation to "protect" anybody.

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Response to tularetom (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:23 AM

6. I say the best defense;

Is the good offense.

To hell with arming yourselves in case you MIGHT get attacked in the future.

Treat EVERYBODY as if they were a threat.

If someone bumps into you in a crowded situation, unsheathe your trusty SOG.

That Glock you are ASHAMED to show in public, side holster; let those bastards KNOW who's boss.

Go ahead and mount that 50 caliber on the hood of your car. You never know when that guy who cut you off is really trying to carjack you.

I agree, I protect myself at ALL times. How about you?

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Response to greiner3 (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:38 AM

11. I think you might have forgotten something

Like, this

Hey it isn't me saying this, it's some pointy headed judges, but I have some real world experience with this situation.

I live in a very remote location. I'm a half hour over some very windy roads from the sheriff's office and there are no patrols in our area due to budget cuts. All of us who live out here are aware of the situation and we are all prepared to protect ourselves.

Personally I'd be willing to pay higher taxes in order to provide police patrols but this is a very conservative county and it just isn't going to happen.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:18 AM

4. I'll disagree to this extent: Anything that happens in an officer's presence, the officer is

 

obligated to protect life and property and when dispatched to a call, the officer is obligated to get there as quickly as possible consistent with department guidelines.

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Response to byeya (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:26 AM

7. The courts have held that the police have no particular obligation to protect.

 

The only people that the police have an obligation to protect are people in their custody.

Otherwise, it is just "best effort". The police cannot be held liable for failing to protect you if you are not in their custody.

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Response to byeya (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:31 AM

8. An administrative obligation, not a legal one.

ie, he can be fired for continuing to write that traffic ticket rather than stopping that robbery in progress he sees on the next block, but the robbery victim has no legal recourse to hold the officer accountable.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 05:42 PM

21. Yes, it's the job description: Intervene to prevent loss of life and property; seize contraband;

 

follow orders, etc.
If you are being mugged, and a cop sees it, you will have the officer intervene to protect you if the cop is competent. If you're a victim of a home invasion and can call 911, officers will be dispatched to your house. Whether in time or not, that's another question.

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Response to byeya (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 06:04 PM

23. Perhaps I stated it badly..

Cops have no LEGAL obligation to protect you, the individual. If they don't come when you call, tough shit, no court will back your claim that you should have been protected. Even if the cop was sitting at the end of your driveway. He might be fired, but that's it.



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Response to X_Digger (Reply #23)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 06:49 PM

26. Yes I believe that to be true just as a fireman isn't required by law to stop the fire in your home

 

or the letter carrier to properly deliver your mail. The above will have a problem with their managers though.

And, I think this is true: If the refusal to perform basic public duties is blatant enough, the individual can sue the department or governmental entity.

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Response to byeya (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 08:32 PM

32. Unfortunately, no.

If the refusal to perform basic public duties is blatant enough, the individual can sue the department or governmental entity.


Multiple court cases have established that no individual is due government protection (outside of those with a 'special relationship' -- which equates to being in police custody.)

Hartzler v. City of San Jose, 46 Cal. App.3d 6 (1st Dist. 1975)

The first amended complaint alleged in substance: On September 4, 1972, plaintiff's decedent, Ruth Bunnell, telephoned the main office of the San Jose Police Department and reported that her estranged husband, Mack Bunnell, had called her, saying that he was coming to her residence to kill her. She requested immediate police aid; the department refused to come to her aid at that time, and asked that she call the department again when Mack Bunnell had arrived.

Approximately 45 minutes later, Mack Bunnell arrived at her home and stabbed her to death. The police did not arrive until 3 a.m., in response to a call of a neighbor. By this time Mrs. Bunnell was dead.
...
(1) Appellant contends that his complaint stated a cause of action for wrongful death under Code of Civil Procedure section 377, and that the cause survived under Probate Code section 573. The claim is barred by the provisions of the California Tort Claims Act (Gov. Code, § 810 et seq.), particularly section 845, which states: "Neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for failure to establish a police department or otherwise provide police protection service or, if police protection service is provided, for failure to provide sufficient police protection service."


Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C.App 1981)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

The Court, however, does not agree that defendants owed a specific legal duty to plaintiffs with respect to the allegations made in the amended complaint for the reason that the District of Columbia appears to follow the well established rule that official police personnel and the government employing them are not generally liable to victims of criminal acts for failure to provide adequate police protection. This uniformly accepted rule rests upon the fundamental principle that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen.

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Response to jody (Original post)


Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:36 AM

9. Actually, a lot of people will feel safer. nt

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Response to bemildred (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:24 AM

14. Actually, used to be lots of alcoholics and meth addicts out there.

Guns, alcohol and meth are a real bad combination.

Fans of guns, alcohol and meth will feel safer. Everybody else needs to not only lock their doors and windows but erect brick walls and put iron grills on those doors and windows.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:51 AM

15. Sounds like the cops are doing a great job there.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:37 AM

10. society

is starting to go crazy! It is not the peoples fault if 'leaders' cannot handle money correctly, wisely to the betterment of the citizen. This type of advice makes me wonder why they would distract like this and the fact is that they probably are mishandling the funds. I protect myself only if threatened with immediate harm. My right. No one, without cause, has a right to hurt another, ever.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:48 AM

12. Let's all arm up, carry in public, consider ourselves prey, train to shoot fellow citizens, etc.


Truthfully, this kind of attitude just shows how paranoid and callous some have become. We need to get a grip before it really is too late.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:48 AM

13. mogadishu ,california.....?

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Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:54 AM

16. As if..

.... other than the rarest of circumstances, the police actually protect anyone.

Police come around after you have been victimized and write a report. If the crime is serious enough, they might collect any obvious evidence. Any similarity to what you see on NCIS or its plethora of sister TV shows is non-existent.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 05:10 PM

19. San Bernardino really is a nasty place

It's basically the logical end point of prop 13 You want kids to stop having kids and get educated, and hence stop the vicious cycle, reform prop 13

Stockton is no better off

Vast swaths of Fresno are no better off

And smaller pockets in all the big metro area. Ditto

I hope CA has bottomed out. Lets hope that complete democratic control gets us needed revenue and reform

Apart from prop 13 reform,
Single payer like Vermont will help , along with dedicated resources for kids born in to poverty

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Response to musiclawyer (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 05:33 PM

20. "complete democratic control gets us needed revenue and reform" If not is there a personal problem?

 

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Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 06:08 PM

24. Don't believe it. This clown Penman is a RW also-ran troll

 

who has never gotten over being trounced by San Bernardino's Democratic mayor Pat Morris, who as I recall got his start as a Brown appointee back in Jerry's first term. I've met Morris and his wife and they are good Dems and good people and the residents of SB are well aware of their many contributions to city services. Yes SB recently declared bankruptcy, a crappy moved forced by a hostile RW faction of the city council recently elected with a big infusion of outside cash. Before the primaries last June I got one push-poll after another flogging one of their blow-in righties, a "businessman" who knocked out my own city councilman, a former teacher and Morris ally, with what looked a million-dollar campaign. The push pollers supposedly couldn't tell me what state they calling from but one of them let slip that she was in Texas. Penman takes his cues from this cabal and is stepping up his permanent swiftboat campaign against Morris and won't stop until the city is a complete shambles and he's finally got Morris's job. The situation pisses me off.

Anyway SB is by and large a well-run city, if a bit down at heels, and police and fire responses have never been particularly fast. So if you live in SB and can afford security bars, I'd recommend getting some installed. But that's nothing new and it isn't the mayor's fault.

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Response to allrevvedup (Reply #24)


Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 08:06 PM

31. When Jean Quan went to DC to rattle the tin cup

 

hyper-militarized Oakland cops shot an Iraq-war-vet-turned-Occupy-protester with a rubber bullet, which was supposed to have caused a near-fatal brain injury from which said vet has since recovered, hmm. Anyway the local righties used that incident to launch a recall campaign against Quan, which thankfully failed, as Quan by all accounts is a lefty Dem who narrowly won a David-and-Goliath race in Nov. 2010 against a well-funded establishment opponent, Don Perrata, who happened to have the support of the cops and their rightie pals. Funny how that works isn't it?

Anyway I guess the point is that mayors have enough trouble keeping the MIC wolves from their own door, namely the prison-industrial complex in all its many forms including well-funded police protection leagues, which are very good at launching smear campaigns to scare people into voting in their RW military-industrial-complex loving pals. The cop-backed candidates around here are always the first to send out glossy mailers pushing their "public safety" priorities in all their Willie Horton glory.

So I guess the answer is that lefty mayors are already fighting militarization and this crap from Penman is an example of it. Basically the message is that Morris wastes too much money on libraries, parks, schools, clinics, and other city services and doesn't care enough about cops. It's an old song.

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Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 06:55 PM

27. Here in Los Angeles if you report being a crime victim and nobody is dead,

you may or may not ever have a visit from the police at all.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #27)


Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:20 PM

33. Here in Los Angeles the LAPD generally treats anyone reporting a crime or

claiming to be a victim to be the real criminal. They make no effort to go after any perpetrators. EVER.

Unless, like I said, somebody is actually dead.

They must figure that if you got attacked by someone you did something to deserve it.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #33)


Response to jody (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 07:57 PM

30. Most police departments are overfunded.

I live in a college town and last year I challenged the police ammo budget. It was $500,000 which worked out to about 20,000 rounds of ammo per officer. After I had a meeting with the police chief the budget was reduced to $160,000. Still a ridiculous amount but at least some savings.

The highest paid cop made $267,000 last year. He is a drug war detective and in order to make that much he allegedly worked 79 hours every single week of the year with no vacation or holidays. Total mismanagement or worse.

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